AncientMariner

I was listening to the Laura Ingraham show and she was going on and on about how great a Pope John Paul was and how he took such a great stand against the moral relativism that most political and spiritual leaders of today espouse. She seemed to think that this new pope is going to continue to carry out that last pope's mission and will continue to try and protect the Church from the moral relativists. Made me get a newfound respect for the departed Pope. I have always viewed catholicism as a highly ritualistic nonesensical religion but maybe there is some hope for it with good leadership, who knows. "I got my mind right boss"

Personally I believe that Satan was or is a real force even if he is only a symbolic representation of maya or something. I think even Krsna Consciousness people accept that Jesus Christ was a pure devotee and apparently Jesus was tempted by some sort of demonic force and he didn't yield to it but ultimately passed all the tests of maya or whatever it was and is now celebrated in history as a great deliverer and a divine Son of God. I know some people are going to attack me for saying this so I apologize if I offended anyone.

No more institutions for me. "I got my mind right boss." - Cool Hand Luke

I was probably just on one of my manic phases dreaming that Krishna Consciousness could have an effect on the government. Guess I better get back on the medication although I gotta admit if the meds actually work this time I am going to miss the highs. Back to mundane debates like gay marriage etc. for another 427,000 years. "I got my mind right boss."

I hope they are not the same aliens that Zachariah Sitchen (however you spell his name) thinks came to Earth and created human beings as a genetic hybrid of themselves and the abominable snowman.

I don't know. I save myself all that complication by reading Bhagavad Gita As it Is by Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada's editions of Srimad Bhagavatam. Just chant and be happy.

After reading on the internet I find myself becoming more and more hopeful about the future of Iskcon. It appears to me at least that the divided camps of Iskcon are at least becoming more willing to communicate with each other in a civilized manner. Maybe in a few years all the guru camps can become united in the service of Srila Prabhupada and Prabhupada's hopes of the Hare Krishna Movement taking over the government will come to fruition. That is what is needed for us karmis up here in the Northwest. We need the slaughterhouses and the wine shops to be closed down by the government or it is my fear our spiritual progress will remain stunted.

That seems to be the problem with many churches in the Kali-yuga. If you ask the tough questions to the church authorities you are banned a vile sinner and no respect is given to you at all or you are even physically threatened. I can't believe how prevalent it is, its almost beyond mind boggling to me anymore. I have been reading stuff on the internet about Ex-Mormons and some of the stuff they have gone through to escape from corrupt church leadership. Ay Govinda How long till the Kalki Avatar arrives?

I will keep working on my chanting and try to get better at it. Sometimes I make a little progress but then I get ransacked by the forces of Kali and I fall back down and my mind wanders back to mundane things.

That reminds me of a guy I worked with last summer. He is a hunter for the U.S.D.A. and he goes around killing animals such as coyotes, beavers etc. for farmers and various other projects. He looks like the stereotypical redneck and even had most of his teeth fallen out from chewing tobacco. All summer long I had conversations with him about religion and he kept telling me how the Bible emphasized "calling on the name of the Lord". I found this to be amazing because that to me sounds essentially the same as chanting the name of the Lord. I don't know if this person is going to end up being incarnated as an animal because he is a hunter but it was weird to be getting such good advice "calling on the name of the Lord" from someone on the outside who appears so fallen. I mean we have big theologians (no disrespect to them) all over the place telling us this and telling us that etc. and you gotta do this and you gotta do that etc and here was this fallen person who got the whole essence of religion with the greatest simplicity "calling on the name of the Lord." He surely isn't a perfect human being but I hope the Lord will find a place for him in His Kingdom as it truely appeared to me the guy sincerely loved the name of the Lord.

and have no war with it. I apologize if I have ever promoted anything on this discussion forum as I am neither a member of Iskcon or a devotee. I grew up in the 7th Day Adventist religion and I still consider myself a Christian. I am not at all familiar with the history of Iskcon except the bits and pieces I have gotten off the internet. Being not even at the level of a neophyte I am not at all qualified to determine who is and who isn't a guru. Sometimes I am sympathetic to the Krishna Conscious Movement because of the magnificent literature that Srila Prabhupada has produced. As far as living versus dead spiritual masters go. The Christian church has the same argument and the same divide and it has always caused me great confusion. As far as I am concerned Jesus Christ is still alive and his mercy is still attainable and this opinion is not very popular with some segments of Christianity. I think it is safe to say there is probably always going to be a diversity of opinions on this subject.

As usual, well said.

Yeah, obviously if there is any insincerity Krishna will pick up on it. I think it goes without saying there is no fooling the supersoul.

So if a person doesn't recognize the value of vedic literature and a spiritual master but later in life starts searching for God that Krishna will recognize the persons devotion and guide the devotee from within the heart. I guess this is good news because if a person is sincere there is no question of being without guidance.

I know what you are saying but for some reason after reading Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1, Ch. 3 text 41 I have never had any problem accepting Srimad Bhagavatam as actual history. In fact that was one of the most profound and beautiful moments I have had in my association with Prabhupada's masterpiece literature. "Sri Vyasadeva delivered it to his son, who is the most respected among the self-realized, after extracting the cream of all Vedic literatures and histories of the universe." Purport Men with a poor fund of knowledge only accept the history of the world from the time of Buddha, or since 600 B.C., and prior to this period all histories mentioned in the scriptures are calculated by them to be only imaginary stories. That is not a fact. All the stories mentioned in the Puranas and Mahabharata, etc., are actual histories, not only of this planet but also of millions of other planets within the universe. Sometimes the history of planets beyond this world appear to such men to be unbelievable. But they do not know that different planets are not equal in all respects and that therefore some of the historical facts derived from other planets do not correspond with the experience of this planet. Considering the different situation of different planets and also time and circumstances, there is nothing wonderful in the stories of the Puranas, nor are they imaginary. We should always remember the maxim that one man's food is another man's poison. We should not, therefore, reject the stories and histories of the Puranas as imaginary. The great rsis like Vyasa had no business putting some imaginary stories in their literatures. In the Srimad Bhagavatam historical facts selected from the histories of different planets have been depicted. It is therefore accepted by all spiritual authorities as the Maha-purana. The special significance of these histories is that they are all connected with activities of the Lord in a different time and atmosphere........................................... In the Bhagavad Gita the Lord says that purpose of all the Vedas is to know Him (Lord Krsna), and Srimad Bhagavatam is Lord Sri Krsna Himself in the form of recorded knowledge. Therefore, it is the cream of all the Vedas, and it contains all historical facts of all times in relation with Sri Krsna. It is factually the essence of all histories. note: I left the middle part out because it was too long to type but it is about how Srila Vyasadeva is the great authority of Srimad Bhagavatam and how he delivered it to his son and how there is no benefit to be gained from Srimad Bhagavatam unless it is received from the representative of Sukadeva.

But the question for me is what to do now? Prabhupada had success and he got a lowlife like myself chanting Hare Krishna and personally my life has benefitted from the little chanting that I do but most everyone around me is not at all interested in Krishna Consciousness and they view gurus as charlatans, cheats etc ad infinitum..

Good point. As far as America trusting God I can't really tell if it will happen anytime soon. Seems to me people are still pretty heavily into maya or at least where I live. Then again my credibility on the subject matter is about on the same level of credibility as testimony from Bill Clinton to a Federal Grand Jury.

A couple of months ago they had a guy on the coast to coast network that said the only way to really effectively win the war against terrorism would to have been drop a few nukes at least a day or two after 9-11, any later than a few days after and the opportunity passed to use this method. He felt the only way to really change these peoples mind set would be to shock the hell out them then install a benovelent dictator.

Wow! Those are some great Prabhupada quotes. I remeber reading some Prabhupada quotes where he was talking about how Americans as a government should be prepared to close down slaughterhouses and kill people that use intoxicants if necessary. I can't seem to find the quotes however so I hope I am not misquoting him. Ideally it would be great if that happened but if a person were to actually do that you would be viewed by the public as a maniac. I gotta admit though based on those quotes it appears that Prabhupada just might be in support of George Bush's crusade.

An Inaugural formula for endless war by Patrick J. Buchanan January 26,2005 From The American Cause website Where Woodrow Wilson was going to make the world safe for democracy, George W. Bush is doing him one better. Bush is going to make the whole world democratic. As he declared in his Inaugural Adress, our "great objective" is "ending tyranny" on earth. And how does the president propose to achieve it? 'So, it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world' The president is here asserting a unilateral American right to interfere in the internal affairs of every nation on earth, without regard to whether these nations have threatened us or attacked us. Their domestic politics are now our concern, because if they are not democratic, we are not secure. Let it be said: This is a formula for endless collisions between this nation and every autocratic regime on earth and must inevitably lead to endless wars. And wars are the death of republics. President Bush also plans to badger and hector foreign leaders on the progress they are making, or failing to make, in attaining U.S. standards of liberty and freedom. 'We will persistantly clarify the choice before every ruler and nation: The moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. ...We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own peoples...' One awaits with anticipation the next visit of the Saudi crown prince. And as there are at least 50 autocracies or tyrannies in Africa, the Middle East and Asia, questions arise. If President Musharraf refuses to yield dictatorial powers, will Bush sanction Pakistan, and risk his overthrow and transfer of his nuclear weapons to pro-Taliban generals sympathetic to al-Qaida? If Beijing declares its treatment of dissidents to be none of Bush's business, will Bush impose sanctions and enrage a regime ruling 1.3 billion people with whom we have $200 billion in annual trade? When a chinese fighter crashed a U.S. reconnaissance plane and Beijing held its crew hostage, Bush meekly apologized. Now, he's going to take these xenophobic Chinese communists to the woodshed? If President Putin tells Bush the oligarch Mikhail Khordokovsky will stay in prison and he will decide how elections are run in Russia, what is Bush going to do? Isolate him and drive Russia into the arms of China, as we have already done with our sanction on Burma? If the Saudis reject democracy, are we going to stop buying their oil? Somewhere, Osama is praying that Bush will undermine the Saudi monarchy, as another democracy worshiper, Jimmy Carter, helped to undermine the Shah - after whom we got the Ayatollah. President Bush is championing a policy of interventionism in the internal affairs of every nation on earth. But did we not learn from 9-11 that intervention is not a cure for terrorism, it is the cause of terrorism. Clearly, the president does not understand this, or believe it. For, in his inaugural, he describes 9-11 as the day "when freedom came under attack." But Osama bin Laden did not dispatch his fanatics to ram planes into the World Trade Center because he hated our Bill of Rights. He did it because he hates our presence and our policies in the Middle East. President Bush says we have no other choice than to end tyranny on earth because the "survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the succes of liberty in other lands." But this is ahistorical. The world has almost always been a cesspool of despotisms, but America has always been free. We have retained our liberty by following the counsel of Washington and staying out of foreign wars that were not America's wars. It has been when we intervened in wars where our vital interests were not imperiled - crushing the Philippine insurrection, World War 1, invading Iraq - that America has come to grief. Occupying the Philippines led us to intervention in Asia, war with Japan and, soon after, wars to defend the South Korean and Indochinese remnants of the Japanese empire. Wilson's war gave us the Versailles peace treaty that tore a defeated Germany apart and imposed unpayable debts on her people, leading directly to Hitler. The invasion of Iraq has reaped a harvest of hatred in the Arab world, cost us 10,000 dead and wounded and $200 billion, and created a new training ground and haven for terrorist to replace the one we cleaned out in Afghanistan. In declaring it to be America's mission in the world to end tyranny on earth, President Bush is launching a crusade even more ambitous and utopian than was Wilson's. His crusade, too, will end, as Wilson's did, in dissillusionment for him and tragedy for his country.

I gotta admit it would be truely amazing if John Kerry and George Bush went over and fought the war they both support. I have flip flopped more than Bill Clinton and John Kerry trying to figure out what the meaning of the word "is" is when it comes to the War in Iraq. At first I figured it was justified because even the Bhagavad Gita says that plunderers of wealth and rapers of other peoples women should be immediately killed. That being said the leaders really should take part in the wars they fight and also the highly esteemed and generally universally respected conservative Pat Buchanan eloquently voiced his opposition to the war calling it one of the worst foreign policy disasters in the history of the US. Given my great respect for Pat Buchanan I had to rethink my stand on the war. I apologize if I have been insensitive to anyone's loss as a result of this war and now I hope we can all come together both democrats and republicans and pray for a peaceful resolution to this conflict.

I know what you are saying that it is a joy that we are really eternal but even knowing that doesn't make my life less monotonous sometimes. I guess I haven't really experienced the bliss of Krishna Consciousness yet.

Thanks for the help.

They are coming back over Tuesday night. I told them I would read their information but now I got to figure out a way to let them know I am not interested without tearing down their faith. From the looks of it if you choose not to be indoctinated you are rejecting Joseph Smith as a prophet. They used a lot of rhetoric about how the world rejected the disciples of Jesus and somehow equate that to rejecting Joseph Smith as being the same thing. I gotta admit this is strange stuff to me. I don't see how wether Joseph Smith is a prophet or not has much to do with a person's relationship to Christ in the first place. I thought about bringing up Krishna and Krishna Consciousness to them but I get the sense they probably wouldn't be open minded to it because apparently they are already feel they are the one true church just like every other branch of Christianity on the face of the Earth thinks they are the one true church.

I got visited by some Mormon missionaries today. I listened to their presentation and basically what I got out of it is that their church is the one real church of Christ and that Joseph Smith is the prophet of this age to restore God's kingdom on Earth. I get the feeling that the initial stages of Mormonism is trying to convince you that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God. I also get the feeling that if you have any doubts about this that is the point where you are viewed as not having been revealed the truth. I respect them and admire their ability to preach to atheists etc. and no offense to Joseph Smith but I have seen nothing from this religion that proves to me that Joseph Smith has anywhere near the level of knowledge of God that Srila Prabhupada has. At least Srila Prabhupada gives you the option of surrendering to God whereas it seems to me Mormonism is trying to get you to surrender to their religion or to Joseph Smith.