AncientMariner

It is amazing once you learn how money works you find out America is just a big ponzi scheme and we have been pumped and dumped. The biggest criminal heist in all of history and bascially everyone of these politicians is complicit in it at some level. I got to admit I have a certain kind of respect for what they have pulled off, it took a lot of genius to pull it off. They completely control everyone by debt and the people are so delusional that they defend the system that enslaves them to this debt. It is almost funny when you see the big picture.

These pastimes cannot be known through mundane senses. For those who accept the worlds beyond space and time, and the saints who have seen them: http://www.salagram.net/BVT-NDM.html

Sometimes I have suffered from doubts but there is no denying there is something magical about the pastimes of Krishna.

Amazing that this debate goes on and on and is so controversial but I did enjoy reading what Sarva gattah wrote above.

I will let you know if anything changes and I see any evidence that Obama is really interested in breaking free from the British Imperialistic banking cartels in control of our government. Until that time here is my impression of Obama.

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So far I have not seen any evidence that he is anything more than the usual puppet of the Banksters. They will probably toss a few lowel level people under the bus but the bigwigs will go scot free and Bush will be kicking back on his 100,000 acres in Paraguay. Wouldn't even be surprised if Bush invites the Obama's over for some barbeques. I guess Obama is a distant cousin of both Bush and Cheney so I doubt he will go after Bush.

Obama is more refined, polished and slicker than Slick Willy, I will give him that. He is busy trying to sell everyone on collectivism and self sacrifice because the government knows the system is blown out by the derivatives and the boomers are not going to have the retirements they imagined.

Remains to be seen what will happen. It seems either we are going to move into a highly micromanaged world government or things will fall apart into decentralization. The government is most likely not going to waste this opportunity so I wouldn't be surprised to see another major false flag event to try and herd the people into accepting more and more government control of their lives.

Should be interesting times ahead. Hopefully people will let me live and speak my mind but I have a bad feeling things will get bad enough that if you don't drink the Obama koolaid the government will start knocking people off because they need a large degree of absolute conformity if they are going to pull off this transition into open world government. I don't mind conforming to a real genuine vaisnava but my intuition tell me Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing. I guess only time will tell, I don't begrudge Obama. If he is a demon he is playing his role in the universe and Krishna will sort it out eventually.

Agree, there is a genuine humility that comes across in Prabhupada's writings. I never met him but I have always appreciated this humility as genuine humility is very rare in this material world where everyone is constantly engaged in competition for survival and over everything wether it be sports or intellectual endeavors.

Krsna is so lovable that simply by associating with Him, one falls in love. This is how it all works. Krsna and His name are identical, so associating with Him that way also kindles that love. Remembering Him, the same. Each of the nine processes of devotional service - all the same, falling in love with the Lovable.

 

When this love ripens and manifests in various levels of deeper and deeper honesty and sincerity and separation, then comes kripa, if Krsna so choses. It is like that saying: don't try to see Krsna, but rather try to make Krsna want to see you.

 

But make no mistake, no matter how involved and structured the program may seem, it is simply about falling in love, falling in love with the Lovable, Sri Krsna.

That is a good point and well said. I have even read in Srimad Bhagavatam that if you recite the story of Maharaja Bharata in the morning and at night you will have all your material desires satisfied and be liberated when you die. Essentially the same thing with the Sudama brahmana story as well.

I don't view them as idiots, more like government insiders. They are on the take. Handwriting was on the wall when Bank of America started giving credit cards to illegal aliens. They are being controlled by the government in its effort to bring about the North American Union of US, Mexico, and Canada.

The government and the bankers intentionally ran the banks into the ground and created this crisis and now they will offer the solution of a new monetary system and new government power structure. Denver, Colorado will be the new Government regional center of the North American Union. They have Northcom in Colorado Springs so there will be seamless integration of the government military superstate.

As band below highlights, even if you try, you cannot kill that beast. Once again, the non-Vaishnavas come up with real knowledge. And this seems the problem. Nobody understands that only Krsna can do this, fight the demons. Instead folks like theist teach, no not Krsna, everyone should sit on the vyasasana. Wasn't the performance we saw past 30 years not enough?

These kind of soldiers are smashed left and right even when it comes to subdue their own minds, what to speak of changing this world into Vaikuntha.

 

 

 

 

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Good point. Only Krishna can slay these demons but I do respect the people that have gone to great lengths to bring this knowledge to the public even though the public is so foolish they want to kill the messengers that wish to educate and the public wants to worship the people that enslave them. Kinda funny when you think about it.

Sometimes it sucks knowing how big the beast is but I am still thankful to the brave souls that have uncovered all of this. It gives a person a whole different perspective to view world events.

Personally I think 9-11 was perpetrated by Al-CIA-duh. The war on terror is just a ruse to bring about a world like police state where the population willingly sacrifice their civil rights. Yeah there will always be skirmishes and violence between different people most likely. A war on terror is the war that will never end with no clearly defined opponent and the opponent can ultimately be whoever the establishment wants it to be thus giving them the power to create war whenever convenient. It is just a construct to give the government excuse to sucker your children into joining the military and think they are serving God or something when they are really being used by a bunch of fat cat international bankers who are laughing their ass off at the gullibility of the sheep. They will just create war after war to keep feeding your children into the grinder and shooting them up with all sorts of vaccines and other experimental stuff.

You fellas can have your never ending war on terror and even stick it where the sun don't shine. I fell for it originally back when the towers came down perfectly in their own foundation but now that I see its true face I can't in good conscience support this idiocy.

Wow mahaksadasa. That is some beautiful realizations you shared. Enjoyed your posts.

Just because the abuse of the position happens now and then that does not mean that a system which was always in place must be changed.

 

Btw... I never felt that I was in any way disadvantaged by the turn of events. I have learned A LOT from that experience.

I don't bring it up to begrudge you. It is good to learn from such experiences.

I just don't buy it when you mock the ritviks and call them bogus. How are you any more legitimately connected to the parampara than they are considering the circumstances of your guru? By saying the guru is a position it seems you are saying a guru is some kind of mundane abusable government positon that is appointed by committee and I was under the impression that acaryas are self effulgent. That is all I am saying. Not trying to take sides. Best of luck to you.

I have been proclaiming this for over 5 years. All I had to do was read about the history, and read what Srila Prabhupada said, and it made perfect common sense.

 

I just practice debate and keep sharp with the philosophy by defeating detractors of Srila Prabhupada's system whenever I have the spare time.

 

I don't expect they will change. Some might see the light. Who knows?

 

I have been slowly and gradually working with a few others to come together and start a small temple, dedicated to Sri Panca Tattva, Sri Sri Gaura Nitai, and the past Acaryas, and it will be a Ritvik temple with lots of nice Siksa Gurus in training, and the rest of the world can do whatever they want. And expect to hear about if they rub it in my face.

Don't give up. I read on another forum that the Krishna temple in Bangalore that is ritvik feeds over 800,000 children a day. I personally have always had high respect for the ritviks because Prabhupada remains in the center in that system which to me shows respect for Prabhupada and Prabhupada is worthy of the highest respect from my viewpoint. Whichever side is correct in this endless debate I do not know. I have listened to both sides and seen good points made by both but hopefully it all works out in the end.

I like this description of the matrix we are living in.

Fighting an "Invisible Force"

January 31, 2009

by Henry Makow Ph.D.

"Who and what is in a position to overthrow an invisible force? And this is precisely what our force is." (Protocols of Zion, IV)

Roger, an "angry American," "patriot" and "fighter," writes that he is in touch with many men who want to do something but don't know what. Do I have any ideas?

Roger is like the man who asked how much does the yacht cost and was told, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

Individuals must take the initiative. That's what the enemy is most afraid of.

"There is nothing more dangerous than personal initiative if it has genius behind it. We must so direct the education of communities of the goyim that whenever they come upon a matter requiring personal initiative they may drop their hands in despair." (Protocols of Zion V.)

We must learn to think and act as individuals again. People only do what they "own" i.e. conceive themselves (unless they are paid or propagandized by paid agents.)

"THE ENEMY IS US"

In any conflict, it is necessary to understand who the enemy is. As Pogo said, "The enemy is us."

The enemy has so permeated the social fabric that society is complicit in its own destruction. Let me explain:

Every day we hear about governments "borrowing" billions in order to stimulate the economy. Do we ever hear who is lending us this money, and where it is coming from? You'd think that would be pertinent.

This "money" is created out of nothing by the Rothschilds and their henchmen in the central banking cartel. This is something our governments could do themselves. Then we would not become debt slaves of the Rothschilds and they would not need a totalitarian New World Order to collect this "debt."

The Protocols of Zion marveled at how stupid gentiles are: "How clear is the undeveloped power of thought of the purely brute brains of the goyim in the fact that they have been borrowing from us...without ever thinking that these moneys [plus interest] must be got by them from their own state pockets in order to settle up with us. What could have been more simple than to take the money they wanted from their own people?" (XX)

You won't hear about this in the mass media but occasionally something will pop up in the Comment sections. This observation by a "Nick Rothschild" appeared recently on Marketwatch.com

"Hate to tell you guys, but all these "currencies" are the smoke screen. We get you to focus on the money while the real "currency" is the debt and the fact that we have enslaved all generations in the future to the servicing thereof... Those who control the debt, we Rothschilds, will never have to work AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN THE MONEY. IT IS NOT THE MONEY THAT YOU SHOULD FOCUS ON .... IT'S THE DEBT, STUPID!"

"LEADERS" = ACCOMPLICES IN THE SYSTEM

We don't hear about this because everyone in a position of influence has a stake in the Rothschild's fraud. Organized Jewry and Freemasonry are the most prominent stakeholders but it includes every government, religion, corporation or organization of significance. Take universities for example. People find the money like ants find jam.

In an infamous letter to New York agents in 1863, Rothschild banker John Sherman wrote: "The few who can understand the system will be either so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favors, that there will be no opposition from that class, while, on the other hand, that great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that Capital derives from the system, will bear its burden without complaint and, perhaps, without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."

In other words, our civilization is leaderless and committed to its own destruction. This is portrayed as "progress" (which it is for the Illuminati.)

If anyone speaks out, he is accused of "anti-Semitism" and ostracized. This is a devious but effective strategy to dismiss a mortal threat as mere racial prejudice. Proof of the "brute brains of the goyim" is that they fall for this ruse. They won't even read the Illuminati Jewish blueprint, the Protocols of Zion, because it is "anti-Semitic."

In fact, it is a hate-filled anti-human blueprint for world government tyranny inspired by the Talmud. The USSR was a direct outcome of this document. Although it is the secret plan of a tiny cabal, it has put all Jews in jeopardy.

Society is being led like lemmings over a cliff. We only believe what the banking cartel and its minions tell us. Again, it's in "The Protocols": The masses are "accustomed to listen to us only who pay it for obedience and attention. In this way, we shall create a blind mighty force which will never be in a position to move in any direction without the guidance of our agents...The people will submit to this regime because it will know that upon these leaders will depend its earnings, gratification and the receipt of all kinds of benefits." ("Protocols of Zion" X)

In the movie "The Matrix," Morpheus says the same thing:

"The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many are so...hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

END THE FRAUD

Thus, our problem is systemic and can't be solved while our political and cultural leaders are creatures of the system. Our focus must be on changing the system, i.e. nationalizing the Fed and renouncing that portion of the debt created out of thin air. Any person, politician or pundit who disagrees is part of the system.

The system provided widespread prosperity in order to consolidate its power. Now, it's moving to the next stage: absorbing all wealth and enslaving the masses (under the pretext of the credit crisis and war on terror.) It may look like the State owns all the banks and all the property, but the State today is merely a surrogate for the central bankers (i.e. Rothschilds etc.)

As I have said, the arc of Western Civilization has been from worship of God (rise) to worship of Satan (decline.) It's been downhill since the Luciferian "Enlightenment," the beginning of which corresponds roughly with the English Revolution (1650) and the formation of the Bank of England in 1694. The Rothschilds and their cabalistic lackeys are Luciferians or Satanists. They recognize the existence of God but rebel against His natural and spiritual order by reversing Good and Evil. They wish to be God and redefine human reality in terms of their own perverse agenda. They are using their credit monopoly to enslave mankind to Satan.

The Achilles's heel of the system is its dependence on unwitting agents and dupes. Our role now is to educate these dupes and detach them from Illuminati ranks. As things get worse, more of them will become disillusioned and look for explanations.

Any mass organization we set up up will be infiltrated and subverted. Thus, we must form myriad informal groups to spread the message and resist in many different ways. We should support each other and eschew internecine feuds by focusing on what we have in common.

One 78-year-old pensioner has bought 50 copies of my book, Illuminati, at cost and has given them away to friends and influential people. This is a small example of personal initiative and self-sacrifice.

----

Thanks for quotations suggested by Philip Jones, Lynda and Ivan.

Related: Dennis Kucinich Discusses Taking Over the Fed

All I know is Prabhupada was a badass. Don't care what anyone has to say about it. That is final as far as I am concerned no matter how much mental gymnastics and contortions all the critics can come up with.

I have always respected Kulapavana's knowledge. He is no dummy just because he is Polish but I always find it strange when he advocates people being initiated by living gurus and the living guru he was initiated by ran off with a massage therapist and stole millions from Iskcon but everything is A-Ok in regards to his initiation because at the time he was intiated everyone according to Kulapavana agrees that his guru was acting as a bonafide acarya even though his guru eventually fell down.

That is all well and good and to be expected in Kali-yuga I just don't understand when Kulapava gets into his heavy handed authoritarian mode in trying to dictate how other people should be intiated especially given the dubious circumstances of his own initiation.

It is amazing that we have arrived at this point. Sometimes I feel like I am living in a really bad ridiculous movie. It's all good though, just more opportunity to increase attachment for Krishna and lose attachment for the material world.

Seems simple enough to me but I am sure Beggar and Kulapavana will be coming after you on this one and belittling you for being an uninitiated peon and even suggest you should not be allowed to even discuss such things because you are such an unqualified peon. How dare you question such things, get back to work, sweep the temple or something, slave. The whole corporate Vaisnava power structure is LAUGHING AT YOU!

Though your sentiment towards Kulapavana is kind-hearted, you have to realize that we can't have things both ways. One can serve only one master.

 

Either Srila Prabhupada was an Advanced Pure Devotee of Sri Krsna, a Maha Bhagavat Acarya and Spiritual MASTER who takes constant and eternal dictation from Supersoul, or not.

 

If he was such a one, those who scrutinize the legitimacy of his decisions in carrying out his mission, or claim the results of his efforts were harmful to the Krsna Consciousness movement, considering it as some material endeavor, are in ignorance. And not representing Krsna nicely at all.

 

 

 

Of course if he was not such a one, then that so called Spiritual Master is a legitimate and necessary target for scrutiny and criticism in the name of reforming a his poor methodologies.

 

If one is honest and humbly skeptical and scrutinizing in order to come to some reconciliation with apparent contradictions, that is natural and understandable and a compassionate person should endeavor to assist such an honest seeker of truth in whatever way possible to come to terms.

 

Though it seems disingenuous to me when a person points to the contradictions they find as indications of the failure of Srila Prabhupada, instead of first assuming it is because of their own fallen vision.

 

And while they haven't yet reconciled them, they are found to resist all reasonable efforts at explanation by those who have reconciled them.

 

Such a person has an agenda that does not include glorifying the Acarya, representing the Acarya, and it is obvious they do not actually believe he was of the exalted status that others believe he was.

 

So in such a case, I believe a wise person would not air out their assessment that Srila Prabhupada was flawed in the presence of known loyal disciples of his. There would be nothing for such a person to gain by doing so.

 

But a person looking to capitalize on the Acarya's legacy would do things differently. They would use a large amount of the knowledge and wherewithal infused to them by the Acarya, but then minimize him in other ways, hoping to draw sympathetic persons into his circle in the name of reforming the mistakes the so-called Acarya made. Thus building something of his own design off of the foundation he actually took from the Acarya, and simultaneously guiding the disenfranchised sympathizers away from the chance of resolving the apparent contradictions in the Acarya's movement in their own minds and being able to push on with the Acarya's version and gain the advancement that goes along with some effort.

 

Instead they get stuck in the Acarya-criticisers speculation effort and their spiritual advancement is stalled under that person's insufficient guidance.

 

Buyer Beware.

I have always been wary of Kulapavana because he used to be one of the ones to shout aparadha against anyone who dared question the actions of the Iskcon gurus. Then he said his guru who ran off with a massage therapist was showing regret for his actions but Kulapavana never mentioned that if this guru was interested in rectifying himself he could start by giving back the money he stole on the way out. That sent off red flags there but I can understand these questions in regards to Prabhuapda's choice in leadership merely because those thoughts have popped into my mind before. I had noticed that Kulapavana doesn't shout aparadha about questions about Iskcon gurus much anymore and he often scrutinizes their actions so I am willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt if they show a change of heart.

I agree with you if Kulapavana is doing this all within the Iskcon framework and suggesting he has the solutions and answers better than Prabhupada for Iskcon from within the Iskcon institution is indeed questionable to say the least. I was under the impression that Kulapavana is no longer associated with Iskcon. If he has a better method he should start up his own foundation with his own assets or assets not related to Prabhupada's legacy anyway, that would be the only respectable thing to do in my opinion if he truly doubts the acaryaship of Prabhupada.

I can even understand scrutinizing Prabhupada's actions to some degree because the thought has popped into my mind before if Prabhupada is really a divine avatar why did things turn out so badly especially in regards to child molestation. I don't blame Prabhupada for that but how could Krishna let such a thing happen? That question haunts me sometimes especially when the Srimad Bhagavatam is all about how Krishna protects his devotees. Just being honest and not trying to commit aparadha or anything.

For some reason I do not know if is irrational sentimentality there is something inside my consciousness that just holds great appreciation for Prabhupada. Maybe I am under the influence of the "Prabhupada onlyite" cult or whateva but the magnitude of the task that Prabhupada was undertaking was epic in scale. Coming to this godforsaken land of materialism at an advanced age and even the Godbrothers that have followed in his footsteps are at best only supporting actors in this tale in my book not because of any disqualification on their part but because Prabhupada was the primary epic hero or maybe tragic hero in his pioneering solitary seemingly hopeless journey and task.

I personally would rather curl up into the fetal position for the rest of my life than go and try to convince anyone that Krishna is God especially here in America and believe it or not I am not a coward as I have been in situations in sports with lots of people watching that made me crap my pants, sweat bullets, and have involuntary spasms and nervous shakes but I finished the task.

39. When I give charity, I often do it grudgingly knowing that these guys are not really collecting for the temple. Then somehow I get changed-up, anyway and I wonder just what happened?

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7

How much did they get from you?

I read that not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of Krishna but then they whole of Srimad Bhagavatam seems to be a pretty much predetermined cycle of events so I logically come to the conclusion that Krishna wanted all this to happen and the Kali-yuga to happen but I could be wrong because my brain is the size of a pea to begin with and the older I get the more foggy things are getting.

I have to say you are way too sentimental to understand my point of view...

 

Prabhupada most certainly had a choice of who he surrounded himself with. He had 5000 disciples for crying out loud! It is puzzling to me why he chose so many questionable characters for the leadership positions in our movement. I certainly do not hold it against him - a lot of these guys were first class actors and natural con-artists, and perhaps SP was too trusting with his disciples.

 

And I trusted these people only because Prabhupada made them leaders of this movement, just like so many other second wave devotees. However, I never trusted them completely, and NEVER did anything contrary to my sense of right and wrong while in their service. I can live with that just fine.

It is all good, we all make mistakes and we learn and we grow. I am glad to see that you seem at peace with your service and you are growing and becoming a good representative of Krishna. I know I have had people in my life that I have believed in only to find my trust was misplaced.

I am really glad to see you are not in that mode where you view it as aparadha when anyone critisizes the actions of some of these Iskcon gurus. I have tried not to be critical myself but as an outsider that was not even born or very young when most of the history of Iskcon happened I have always felt I had a right to scrutinize the legitimacy of an organization such as Iskcon given its history and given the claims by some that the only way to heaven is to surrender to an Iskcon guru or something along those lines. I apologize if I have ever been disrespectful to you or your godbrothers.

This was the only portion of Sonic's post that I was unclear about. His use of the word compare is incongruent with the context of the rest of that sentence, and the only words I can think of that would fit are nothing like the word "compare".

 

But as for the rest of his post, that is spot on and the very reason why Srila Prabhupada gave duties to engage the westerners who had the closest to brahminical nature, the most sattva guna compared to the rest of society, and then offered detailed instructions on how to create a system of DAIVA Varnasrama, which was a tailor made system which took into consideration the large amount of tama guna that is mixed with any westerners who have any goodness or passion. It was to meet us where we were actually at, and gradually help us advance.

 

It was based on Sri Narada's Pancaratrik Vidhi at heart, and Srila Prabhupada added some instructions based on what Krsna dictated to him.

 

Unfortunately, by and large the Iskcon crew thought they would reproduce Vedanta Vidhi, based on their minimal exposure to the traditions of bygone ages when people were qualified to engage in the full Vedic program.

 

They did this because they could pretend to be fully qualified Brahmanas according to Dwarpa Yuga standards, following this strict system that none of them, and noone else could actually follow.

 

But since they were the Leaders and Srila Prabhupada was not there in Vapu to walk into the room and correct their deceptions, they could modify their presentation of the system enough to appear that they were the learned experienced elders, and no-one would ever be able to get to their level, thus keeping a slave labor force struggling to climb the ladder to the glass ceiling.

 

If they had implemented Daiva Varnasrama, all comers would be immediately engaged based on where they were at in their Kali Yuga degradation, and they would not need anyone falsely Lording it over them perpetually.

 

Lucky for us Srila Prabhupada is here in his Vani, and has through that exposed the charade.

Beautifully said. It is so sad and tragic because this is such an incredible philosophy but it still remains basically hidden, obscure and inaccessible to the masses of general people.

These varna designations are not something intrinsic to the soul or mind.

You aren't kshatriya, vaishya or sudra if you aren't working within a varnashrama system

 

Like, if I say I am a doctor but I have no training and no work as a doctor then that is just an illusion.

 

One's guna and karma would get one a position as a ksatriya or vaishya etc. if in fact one lived in a varnashrama society of a Vedic king.

 

What it means is that we all have an acquired nature - a guna or combination of the three gunas.

 

A person in the mode of goodness is of the brahmincal nature, though if he doesn't have a position in a Vedic culture as a brahmana then how can we say he is a brahmana?

 

A ksatriya is predominantly in the mode of passion - raja guna.

 

The Vaishya is in the mixed mode of passion and ignorance.

 

The sudra is appointed his work as a sudra because he is predominantly in the mode of ignorance - tama guna.

 

However, in the western world things are very mixed-up.

A teacher might be in the mode of ignorance even though in the Vedic system a teacher would come from the brahminical class in the mode of goodness.

 

So, in the western world we cannot say that one's karma or work is correctly reflective of his guna.

 

The priests are supposed to be brahmans but we can see that in western world most priests are meat-eaters in the mode of ignorance.

 

So, without a proper Vedic king and a cabinet of brahmans, it is totally ridiculous to try and compare western people in divisions of labor and castes.

 

That is basically what the caste system has done.

It let's ignorant sudras pose as brahmans while some persons in the mode of goodness are labled as sudras.

 

As such the caste system of India has become just a bigoted, prejudiced system of false designations based upon some family traditions.

That makes a lot of sense.