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Puru Das, das anudas

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    Sri Krsna Caitanya Mandir

    111-14 101 Avenue

    South Richmond Hill, NY 11419-1122


    Tomorrow, April 21st at 10:00 AM to 1:00 PM


    Vaisnava Homa -- Fire Yagna -- for Sripada Puru Prabhu




    Questions may be directed to Bhumipati prabhu at 917-406-5640 or

    Bhutabhavana at 208-610-0515


    Thanks for everyone's very kind comments about Puru, BVML will soon have a new section devoted to the Curator.


    Your servant,

    rand0M aXiS (using Puru's computer in NY)


    . I have never accepted that a true disciple of Srila Prabhupada would see someone who lived 24/7 at Radha Kunda engaged in bhajana as some kind of enemy to be disrespected. And visa versa from them to Srila Prabhupada. Just different modes in devotion being expressed.


    I am now even more firmly convinced then ever that those that take to lower mode arguments against the other have no solid standing in either.

    Srila Prabhupada's attitude toward Radha Kunda is nicely explained in the purports to verse 9 of Nectar or Instruction:


    "In Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-lila) it is stated that when Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu first visited the area of Vrajabhumi, He could not at first find the location of Radha-kunda. This means that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was actually searching for the exact location of Radha-kunda. Finally He found the holy spot, and there was a small pond there. He took His bath in that small pond and told His devotees that the actual Radha-kunda was situated there. Later the pond was excavated by Lord Caitanya's devotees, headed first by the six Gosvamis, such as Rupa and Raghunatha dasa. Presently there is a large lake known as Radha-kunda there. Srila Rupa Gosvami has given much stress to Radha-kunda because of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's desire to find it. Who, then, would give up Radha-kunda and try to reside elsewhere? No person with transcendental intelligence would do so. The importance of Radha-kunda, however, cannot be realized by other Vaisnava sampradayas, nor can persons uninterested in the devotional service of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu understand the spiritual importance and divine nature of Radha-kunda. Thus Radha-kunda is mainly worshiped by the Gaudiya Vaisnavas, the followers of Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

    NOI Vese 9


    There are other more remarkable statements in the purports to vereses 10, 11 and 12. However, despite Srila Prabhupada's deep appreciationand realization about Radha Kunda, I never heard HDG advocate to any of his followers to take up residence there prematurely.

    Nevertheless look at what he says in the last purport to verse 11:


    ". . . It is stated that a devotee will at once develop pure love of Krsna in the wake of the gopis if he once takes a bath in Radha-kunda. Srila Rupa Gosvami recommends that even if one cannot live permanently on the banks of Radha-kunda, he should at least take a bath in the lake as many times as possible. This is a most important item in the execution of devotional service. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in this connection that Sri Radha-kunda is the most select place for those interested in advancing their devotional service in the wake of the lady friends (sakhis) and confidential serving maids (manjaris) of Srimati Radharani. Living entities who are eager to return home to the transcendental kingdom of God, Goloka Vrndavana, by means of attaining their spiritual bodies (siddha-deha) should live at Radha-kunda, take shelter of the confidential serving maids of Sri Radha and under their direction engage constantly in Her service. This is the most exalted method for those engaged in devotional service under the protection of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. In this connection Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes that even great sages and great devotees like Narada and Sanaka do not get an opportunity to come to Radha-kunda to take their baths. What, then, to speak of ordinary devotees? If, by great fortune, one gets an opportunity to come to Radha-kunda and bathe even once, he can develop his transcendental love for Krsna, exactly as the gopis did. It is also recommended that one should live on the banks of Radha-kunda and should be absorbed in the loving service of the Lord. One should bathe there regularly and give up all material conceptions, taking shelter of Sri Radha and Her assistant gopis. If one is thus constantly engaged during his lifetime, after giving up the body he will return back to Godhead to serve Sri Radha in the same way as he contemplated during his life on the banks of Radha-kunda. The conclusion is that to live on the banks of the Radha-kunda and to bathe there daily constitute the highest perfection of devotional service. It is a difficult position to attain, even for great sages and devotees like Narada. Thus there is no limit to the glory of Sri Radha-kunda. By serving Radha-kunda, one can get an opportunity to become an assistant of Srimati Radharani under the eternal guidance of the gopis."


    PUrport verse 11



    Actual residence at Radha Kunda is something very extraordinary. Who is qualfied to perform genuine bhajana there? Only Vaisnavas on the level of Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami, and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura.

    If living on the banks of Radha-kunda and bathing there daiily is "a difficult position to attain, even for great sages and devotees like Narada," then what to speak of ordinary jivas like ourselves?


    It has long distressed me to see the acromony between the the so-called "babaji camps" and the "world preacher camps." I say so-called because on the strength of the words of Rasaraja I have learned that many differences on many philosophical points in regard to sadhana and entering Krsna lila may exist between the babaji's themselves and not just between them and the preacher class of vaisnavas. . . . .


    Might I point out that strong philosophical differences also manifested directly amongst the disciples of SBSST after his departure. . THe followers of Ananata Vasudeva, to this day, do not accept the pancha tattva mantra, and the potency of the maha mantra.




    <CENTER>jaya sri-krishna-chaitanya

    prabhu nityananda

    sri-adwaita gadadhara

    shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda </CENTER>



    I offer my respectful obeisances unto Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Nityananda, Sri Advaita, Gadadhara Pandit, Srivas Thakur, and all the devotees of Lord Caitanya.



    They chant a different mantra. One of their followers who lives behind the large S. Indian Mahaprabhu temple on the parikrama marga, just before the town of Radha Kunda, told me "You cannot enter the kunja by chanting hare krsna maha mantra or the pancha tattva mantra. This is bcause you are chanting nama aparadha and therefore You must chant this other mantra."


    When I tried to recite the pancha tattva mantra verse out loud, He would not allow me to finish the mantra past Sri Krsna Caitanya. He had no regard for Lord Nityananda, ekanda guru tattva. He is convinced he can

    "enter the kunja" without the mercy of Lord Nityananda.

    No suprise that Srila Prabhupada cautioned us about hearing from such confused persons and felt so strongly about the affect his godbrother's deviation from the teachings of SBSST and SBT had upon the Gaudiya Matha, and wrote this:




    ". . . But in your absence, Srila Prabhupada,

    The ‘resolute determination’ explained by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura*

    Has become broken by the forces of darkness

    And those who were not fixed in devotional service

    Have divided your holy Gaudiya Mission into many separated branches.

    It appears that the essence of your teachings

    did not enter very deeply into their ears,

    And that the tigress of desire for material prestige

    Has regrettably claimed a great many victims.

    Indeed, I am wondering where I, too, will receive the strength

    To remain steady in my bhajana in separation from your lotus feet.

    O Srila Prabhupada.

    The depth of your compassion was such

    that the suffering of the misguided humanity

    was a cause of much suffering for you;

    And I am acutely feeling lost and alone

    On this day of your departure from our vision.






    Persons afflicted by the jaundice of ignorance

    Cannot taste the ambrosial sweetness

    Of the heart-transforming names of Hare, Krsna, and Rama.

    And therefore they do not chant the holy Maha-mantra.

    Whose thirty-two syllables are like resplendent pearl-like droplets

    Which constitute the elixir of immortality---

    The very medicine for curing the disease of such persons.

    One of your closest disciples

    Whose cup you lovingly filled to the brim

    With the deathless nectar of your instructions

    Has ungratefully thrown away that chalice,

    And his regrettable preference for infectious poison

    Has resulted in an epidemic of sahajiyaism.

    It seems that the prize valiantly acquired by the triumphant lion

    Has at present been unscrupulously stolen by a jackal.

    The oppressive forces of nescience have reduced everyone to tears,

    And it appears that each of the young lions

    Is ‘again becoming a mouse.’


    O Srila Prabhupada

    Where are your pure teachings to be found at this dark hour?

    Standing as we are

    on the shore of the ocean of spiritual devastation,

    Only your lifesaving glance of causeless mercy

    can save us from certain death

    Only by your infallible grace

    can we perceive a way to somehow retrace our steps:

    To return to al life of divine remembrance of the Holy Name in great happiness

    And implicit faith in your ‘Vaikuntha message”.

    O blessed master, please awaken some good intelligence

    In this insignificant servant of yours,

    Increasing the fullness of his faith in your sublime message day by day.

    You compassionately took the suffering of misguided humanity

    Upon your own holy head,

    And I am feeling severe pangs of separation from your lotus feet

    On this day upon which you disappeared for our vision.


    Dear Puru prabhu,


    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja. . . . i would agree that we shouldn't take siksa from someone who has a differing faith than our parampara just as I doub't one of his disciples would take siksa from someone n our paramapara. We should be respectful though and you were very respectful on this so thank you :)!


    Your servant,

    Radha Govinda dasa

    If we are strict with ourselves and only repeat what we have heard from our spiritual masters then there is no question of disrespecting any living entity,as pure devotees bear no animosity toward anyone. There is however the matter of satyam, and His Divine Grace Srila Prabhpada has written in the purport to Bg. 10,4-5 as follows:


    ". . . Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth. . . ."

    So in that mood, and particularly to protect their disciples from what they feel are misdirections in the matter of how to execute sadhana, GAudiya acaryas like SBSST and HDGSACBSP, and SBVNM sometimes are impelled to speak out on what may appear to be controversial or "political" topics. They advise their followers against what they feel are unbona fide methods of devotional practice that serve to ultimately degrade and not really benefit any sadhaka. We know how strongly His Divine Grace felt about gopi bhava groups, and sahajaism. He felt it was the greates enemy to "preaching" KC.Here is another example:

    Question: In Sri Brahma-samhita it is described that Sri Sri Radha and Krsna are seated on a divine throne, and the whorl of the lotus flower upon which They are seated is described as a hexagonal figure. What is the meaning of this hexagonal figure?

    Srila Guru Maharaja: I am sorry, but we are not to enter into the discussion of such higher and subtle position of the Lila of Radha-Krsna. That is not to be brought into public, and that is the distinction between the Gaudiya Math and the sahajiya section. The sahajiyas are trying to imitate all this things, but we have no faith in imitation. The higher Lila will come in an individual case, and it will awaken in an irresistible way. When the programme of the sadhana stage is finished it will come automatically, spontaneously. We are believers in that, and not to know the form already and then we will reach there -- that is not the policy accepted by Guru Maharaja, Prabhupada:


    Transcribed from an informal talk at Nabadwip Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math on 13th March , 1981.

    Fools Rush In Where Angels Fear to Tread

    by Srila Bhaktiraksaka Sridara Goswami Maharaja



    We also know that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura preached very strongly against certain groups of babas, and did not advocate siddha pranali initiations for undeserving practitioners, especially neophyte disciples who must first execute the regulative principles of vaidhi bhakti and make gradual progress from aropa siddha bhakta to sanga siddha bhakti and eventually to svarupa siddha bhakti but only when they have sufficient adhikara, and otherwise not. Sravanam kirtanam with the emphasis on kirtanam first so one may become quailfied to practice sravanam correctly and with the proper deep insights it truly requires. Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja



    pointed out to me that sahajiya groups never study the Sri Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvami, only the other books he wrote. He told me that they are "afraid" of the subject matter in those verses,especially sloka one.



  5. Seems to me that 2+2=5 in this discussion and not 4. That is because Srila Narayana Maharaja's class:


    Boycott the Sahajiya Babajis



    was never directed specifically at Ananta das Babaji Maharaja, or any other individual. His remarks summarize three basic philosophical differences between the followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and other groups, not specifically identified that have a different mind set. Such concepts may be shared either partially or completel by certain individuals, no matter.


    We know that Srila Ananta das Babaji Maharaja speaks very beautifully and his subject matter is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the books left by the six gosvamis. As far as I know he does not accept our guru varga and therefore we are hesitant to hear from him on the advanced topics he speaks and writes about. In this hesitancy, or conservative position, there is no criticism of him, only an exercise ofour discrimination and choice as to which sadhu's we will follow, take shelter of and give our heart to. Love is never forced and everyone will vote with their feet and march to the beat of their own drum. NO harm. Birds of any feather will flock together.



    FYI I asked Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja in Brazil if I could examine Srila Ananta das babaji Maharaja's books. He said to me "No harm." But the only problem remains for me that the only English translations of his work are done by someone who has an inimical attitude toward my siksa guru. So better safe than sorry.


    BTW Jagatananda (who was mentioned) appears to have adopted all three

    philosophical divergances mentioned by SBVNM. Once on the vnn forum I had a long argument with him as to the veracity of a book from the 13th century, supposedly proving that Prakasananda Sarasvati and Prabhodananda Sarasvati were identical personalities. He told me, "SBSST simply was not aware of that book." This showed his acceptance of the second divergance, that he had no faith at all in our guru varga. It is a preposterous proposal that a mahabhagavata like SBSST would "require" corrobaration of anything related to spiritual life, from a 13th century scholar. Prerposterous to anyone with even slight realization about the guru varga we accept, but logical to the lecogographical empiricists, mayavadis and sahajiya followers like jagat. In other posts he also betrayed his position by declaring that he thought Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, "Invented" shastra. Whatever.


    Srila B.V. Naryana Maharaja has written a much more extensive critique on the differences between our guru varga and other groups, in his essay about third initiation:


    <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="84%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" bgcolor="#ccffcc" width="82%">Five Essential Essays - Prabandha Panchakam</td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#ccffcc" valign="top" width="18%"> View

    Download</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" valign="top" width="5%">five_essays_cover.jpg</td> <td class="inhalttext" colspan="2" width="95%">This exceptional book is a compilation of five different essays which Srila Gurudeva has written over the past 20 years in defense of Gaudiya sampradaya tattva siddhanta. Each refutation is elaborately and conclusively proven with evidence from sastra.

    Included in this edition are two lectures by Srila Gurudeva which glorify and follow the example of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada who boldly re-established the true conceptions of Sriman Mahaprabhu and the gosvamis, and began the preaching mission which is today bringing this pure bhakti tattva siddhanta to every country in the world.</td></tr></tbody></table>


    Good luck on that Puru.

    Thank you.

    <center>TEXT 1


    </center> <center>

    isvarah paramah krsnah


    anadir adir govindah


    </center> <center>SYNONYMS


    </center> isvarah--the controller; paramah--supreme; krsnah--Lord Krsna; sat--comprising eternal existence; cit--absolute knowledge; ananda--and absolute bliss; vigrahah--whose form; anadih--without beginning; adih--the origin; govindah--Lord Govinda; sarva-karana-karanam--the cause of all causes.



    </center> Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.



    ps i have had edema problems in my legs in the last year or two. Dr.s couldn't figure it out. I hit the google button and finally traced down the reason for the excess water. It may seem couterintuitive but the swelling was due to DEHYDRATION! I started drinking much water (a gallon a day) and over a few weeks the problem disappeared and hasn't returned.


    Yours may have a different cause but I thought you may want to investigate this water angle also.


    Hare Krsna

    Thank you for your kindness. I underwent quadruple by pass openheart surgery 17 years ago when I was 41. My left leg is always worse than the right, and this is simply a matter of physics. The surgeons removed the sapphenous vein from my left leg and placed it on the circumflex artery on the back of my heart, which was 90% blocked. Swelling only manifested some years later after the operation, and comes and goes like the tides. Visiting Puri this winter, after kartike, set it off again. Puri is the land of Lord Jagannath and Mahaprabhu's extraordinary pastimes in Gambhira, the sea, Rathayatra, Gundica etc.. and this part of Orissa also looks to be the elephantitis capital of the world is it not?


    Water is indeed the answer. None of the doctors I saw in India had any brain to prescribe sufficient water pills opr correctly adjust my blood pressure medicaton. One look at me in NY and one of our sanga members who is a physician, changed my medication drastically and I have been improving slowly, slowly ever since I started the regimen he prescribed. The alopathic medicines he has me taking do a very effective job of increasing the amount of water that goes in and out of the material body. The only other aide is to elevate one's legs, and that requires sitting or lying immobile. At night for rest I can do this sometimes, but during the day the modes churn too rapdiily and I am more inclined to be active. Thanks for the tip though. I appreciate your concern.




    Puru, is this from Jaiva Dharma, or from one of Narayana Maharaja's footnotes in Jaiva Dharma?

    It is from the end of the footnote. Just scrolll up from the bottom of the url I gave


    and see:


    J A I VA - D H A R M A CHAPTER 7 168

    – continuation of footnote 2 (from page 155):


    Stonehearted there is nothing confusing about the layout of this page:



    Kindly take notice that all the footnotes are clearly indicated and are posted in smaller typeface than Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's text. Unless I wanted Jaiva Dharma up in pdf format this is the best way I could come up with to do the footnotes in an html scrolling copy of each chapter.


    Anyway what matter? Read the quote and the explanation of the sloka is straightforward, shastrially based and bona fide. Srila Prabhupada explained it the same way. So have other acaryas.


    Undoubtedly I am a disciple of Srila Gurudeva.
    Then kindly stop hiding behind a pen name, guest AN. Why are we wasting our valuable time here in the contentious atmosphere of cyber debate instead of absorbing ourselves more in hari nama? Computer connections in India aren't easy and if you don't have any phone line you have to spend laxmi to post from a cyber cafe. In Govardhana one brahamcari (and that could be you) asked me why I wasted my time posting here I should have asked him why he wastes time reading here? .


    Why don't we both chant one lac tomorrow instead of going tit for tat? I really have too much to do to waste much more effort here anyway prahu. Posting on these forums sometimes is like having malaria. You get a fever and it lasts for a while and then you recover. Jump into a discussion here and lose so much valuable time,and for what? An exercise in false ego, a jalpa discussion in the mode of passion, tit for tat tal fruit discussions. Shame on me for speaking too much, yet again to the tar baby.



    Sripad Tridandi Maharaj very kindly mailed me a book detailing the history and philosophies of the four Vaisnava sampradayas. I have to study it very carefully so I can speak on the topic later this summer in the U.K. So please take whatever last word you want to in this exchange, because after this post I just can't invest any more time discussing with you how you think and feel about my diksa guru, and his legacy.



    And I will concede that, in the English Language, Swamijis books are the best currently available.
    Thank you. How magananimous of you prabhu. Sripad B.V. Van Maharaja has a full set of Cc. and SB in the small room in the Kesavji Gaudiya Matha where he used to live. Thing is that only devotees like yourself, who are fluent in English, can have any idea at all of the value of Srila Swami Maharaja's writing. The many brahmacaries who speak only Bengali and/or Hindi will remain clueless to their value. What can be done? Sadly in this life we will never be able to read the tikhas they do in bengali, and they will not be able to read our sources either. Seems apparant that Krsna has made an arrangement for everyone, regardless of his janma, to be able to connect to the absolute truth through the medium of print, whatever language.



    Although his summary study of BRS was the best for its time, I do think Gurudeva's upcoming translation of the entire work with commentaries will be well received, as will his upcoming Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritamrta.

    There is no doubt that Srila Gurudeva's writing will also pass the "test of time." Consider then how would you appreciate it if 30 years down the road someone in a forum treats his efforts so glibly as you do Swamiji's and observes that Srila Gurudeva's translations were a "good atempt.?" or "the best for their time."




    I have nothing against Swamiji, and do agree that he was one of the greatest preachers the Gaudiya Math has ever produced. His books, even today, are the best currently available, though that does not mean that more work could be done to improve that currently available. From the Gaudiya Math point of view, and particularly in Gurudeva's sanga,


    No one ever suggested that the Gaudiya library was a closed shop.You make a lot of false assumptions and then address them a though someone had actually said such things. What a useless exercise prabhu. Better we chant and study more and post less.You can stop making observations of things no one said, and I won't have to waste time answering them.


    Your post points out a difference between us. You think you are a brahmacari in the "Gaudiya Matha", and I believe "I am of no faction" . I am firmly convinced that Srila Gurudeva's sanga has more to do with cultivating suddha bhakti and less to do with institutional identification and/or loyalty than you do. Srils Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharja has also explained in chapter 5 of Sri Guru and His Grace:



    "We need society only to help us. If our affinity to the society keeps us down, then that should be given up, and we must march on. There is the absolute consideration and the relative consideration. When they come into clash, the relative must be given up, and the absolute should be accepted. If my inner voice, my spiritual conscience decides that this sort of company cannot really help me, then I will be under painful necessity to give them up, and to run towards my destination, wherever my spiritual conscience guides me. Any other course will be hypocrisy, and it will check my real progress. If we are sincere in our attempt, then no one in the world can check us or deceive us; we can only deceive ourselves (na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati) [bg. 6.40]. We must be true to our own selves, and true to the Supreme Lord. We must be sincere."


    There may be a certain level of stability and facility in any institution of any acarya during his nara lila. After his maha samadhi,that may change or stay steady if another self effulgent acarya from the same mission succeedes him. It ma change drastically also. However, according to Srila Srirupa Siddhanti maharaja's observations, we find out who was associating with him there for what reasons.




    "(15) Only at the time of Sri Gurudeva’s disappearance can one recognise the actual identity of his disciples. One can then understand who has approached Sri Guru with what intention.

    (16) Even after taking shelter of a sad-guru’s lotus feet, some disciples secretly strive to occupy the seat of Sri Gurudeva at the time of his disappearance. Their acceptance of the shelter of Sri Guru’s feet was merely deceit. They are, in fact, hostile and inimical to guru. . . ."





    I appreciates Srila Gurudeva's humility so much. He reveres Swamiji as a Siksa Guru, despite him having been a sannyasi for much longer than Swamiji
    He was only "sannyasa" for 4 or 5 years longer, and if he understood that Srila Swami Maharaja was his siksa guru perhaps you should just go along with that conception. Srila Gurudeva accepted him as good as Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja because he understood then only too well that guru is one and manifests in many different forms. Actually Srila Gurudeva's realization of our other acaryas is so high that we can't begin to approach it with our intellect. The Gaudiya acaryas know each other eternally ,and are all connected to the eternal seva of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna, so we can only guess as to the depth of their connection to one another.





    and himself being present at the sannyasa ceremony of Swamiji. And despite him giving openly, so much more than Swamiji ever did.

    Not only present, but the priest in charge of the whole function. But

    here you go again prabhu, making a false distinction between the service your diksa guru and that of a predecessor acarya,and only because of how that seva touches you personally in this one birth that you seem to identify with.


    Your estimation of "less or more" shows that you have a lot to learn about guru tattva, and lot more to learn about what our guru parampara means. My conclusion is you simply have not listened to many of Srila Swami Maharajs' public lectures. You are most certainly too young in this birth to have had his vapuh association unless you did so in a previous lifeh. How old are you , 24?


    In his first years in the U.S. Srila Swami Maharaja spoke mostly from the Cc. His classes were as rasika as any one of our other acaryas' ever has spoken including Srila Gurudeva. Methinks you are not paying close enough attention to the explanations of diksa and siksa guru given by Srila Prabhupada in his Cc. purports. Therein he has written:


    " When by learning from the self-realized spiritual master one actually engages himself in the service of Lord Visnu, functional devotional service begins. The procedures of this devotional service are known as abhidheya, or actions one is dutybound to perform. Our only shelter is the Supreme Lord, and one who teaches how to approach Krsna is the functioning form of the Personality of Godhead. There is no difference between the shelter-giving Supreme Lord and the initiating and instructing spiritual masters. If one foolishly discriminates between them, he commits an offense in the discharge of devotional service."


    His Divine Grace may just be a name in Gaudiya history to you, but to myself and to his other disciples and to Srila Gurudeva himself he is much more.



    Personally, I don't see why we must compromise our own methods. Yes, we do things differently than Swamiji and ISKCON, so what? Why the need to draw the connection back to Swamiji all the time? If you can't find the connection between what Srila Gurudeva and Swamiji says then it cannot be bonafide? Please. Who cares if Srila Gurudeva teaches and gives few things differently than Swamiji.

    Personally I don't see why it should upset or concern you that siksa disciples of Srila Gurudeva,who accepted diksa from other acaryas make such connection to their diksa guru. If associating with Srila Swami Maharaja's followers disturbs your mental quantum then you should avoid us baba. We just live in the past by your estimation. However Srila Gurudeva seems to share the same love and affection for His Divine Grace that we do and so we cling to his point of view. We hear about that conection from him all the time and anyone can read about it here:


    My Siksa Guru and Priya Bandhu

    [This is a collection of recollections and reflections about His Divine GraceSrila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from one of his earliest siksafollowers and friends, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. These descriptiveaccounts of his association with Srila Prabhupada span a long period of time, since they first met in 1947.]


    It is a very simple matter for me and anyone else to embrace Srila Gurudeva's perception of Srila Swami Maharaja and happily and easily ignore yours.


    In future if you ever accept any siksa guru after Srila Gurudeva's physical departure you may find yourself doing exactly the same thing, looking for parallels in their vanih. Please indeed!!! Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja has explained this point.this search, nicely in Sri Guru and His Grace:



    In chapter Three he says:

    " So, the very gist of the guru parampara, the disciplic succession, is siksa, the spiritual teaching, and wherever it is to be traced, there is guru. One who has the transcendental eye, the divine eye, will recognize the guru wherever he appears. One who possesses knowledge of absolute divine love in purity --- he is guru. Otherwise the guru parampara is only a body parampara: a succession of bodies . . . The Gaudiya Math deals with reality, not with the frame. We are trying to understand what is what in the spiritual thought-world. We are not enchanted or captured by the mere form. We are interested in the step by step development in spiritual thought. In his Upadesamrta (10), Srila Rupa Goswami has said, karmibhyah parito hareh priyataya vyaktim yayur jnaninas, tebhyo jnanavimukta bhakti-paramah premaika nisthas tatah. "Out of many materialists one may be a philosopher. Out of many philosophers, one may become liberated and take to devotional service. Out of many devotees, one may attain pure love of Krsna. He is the best of all." We are interested in understanding this gradation: what is the Viraja river, what is the spiritual sky, the planet of Lord Siva, the Vaikuntha world of Visnu, Lord Rama's Ayodhya, and then Krsna in Dwaraka, Mathura, and Vrndavana? We want to know the realistic view of the whole gradation of devotional thought



    I love Srila Gurudeva and care for nothing else. What he does is eternally perfect and supreme, and we as disciples should understand that. So many times devotees say, oh, Swamiji did it THIS way, and in Swamiji's time we did it in THAT way. I appreciate what Gurudeva's giving completely and there's no need for anything else whatsoever.

    I suggest you take associaton from devotees who live less in the "past" and more in the "present." I don't bother with godbrothers who are in an iskcon time bubble either. However guru nistha is not limited to one acarya, but to the principle of ekanda guru tattva. Again Srila Sridhar Maharaja has written:


    "So, the absolute and the relative are two different classes of interest. And we find more importance in the absolute interest. We must be sincere to our own creed. The form is necessary to help me in a general way to maintain my present position. At the same time, my conception of the higher ideal will always goad me to advance, to go forward, and wherever I do, I must follow the greater model, the greater ideal. Spiritual life is progressive, not stagnant. We are in the stage of sadhana, and we want to go ahead, not backwards. The formal position will help me to maintain my present status, and my extraordinary affinity for the ideal will goad me towards the front. The search for Sri Krsna is dynamic and living, so adjustment and readjustment is always going on. And we should also change our present position accordingly, so that we may not have to sacrifice the high ideal for which we have come. Einstein had to leave Germany and go to America for his high ideal of life. And so many similar instances may be found in the world. The ideal is all in all. The highest ideal in a man is his highest jewel. Our most precious gem is our ideal."

    Sri Guru and His Grace

    In the future, when Srila Gurudeva is not physically manifesting eartlhy pastimes you will have to face what Srila Swami Maharaj's disciples have had to deal with since 1977. Again Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaj's vanih is of great help in this regard. Take note of his words:


    "What we have received from our spiritual master we understood only in a rough estimation. Now, things have come in such a way that we have to scrutinize ourselves in every position. We have to analyze ourselves. Atma-niksepa, self-analysis has begun. We are under trial. What we have received from our spiritual master, in what way have we received it? Properly, or only showingly? The time has come to purify us, to test whether we are real students, real disciples, or his disciples only in face and confession. What is the position of a real disciple? If we live in a society, what is the depth of our creed? In what attitude have we accepted his teachings? How deep-rooted is it within us? The fire has come to test whether we can stand. Is our acceptance real? Or is it a sham, an imitation? This fire will prove that.

    So, this is the real field of sadhana, or practice. Our practice, our advancement needs these difficulties. Otherwise, we may not know what is progress, and we will become hypocrites, and give the adulterated thing to others. So, to purify ourselves, it is necessary that so many disturbances come.

    And God has no error. He commands the environment. It is not our responsibility. The responsibility of the environment does not rest upon us. If I am sincere, then I have to adjust myself with this environment and put my faith before Him. "Everyone may leave me, but I shall stand alone!" With this attitude we must march on, whatever the circumstances may be. Then the recognition may come in my favor, that "Yes, under such trying circumstances he is still there." Our superiors will be pleased with us.

    The relative and absolute considerations are always coming in clash. The absolute should be accepted and the relative sacrificed. Still the relative is necessary. After graduation from primary school another teacher is accepted for higher education, but that does not mean that the primary teacher is neglected or insulted. For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted. Is my realization a living thing, or is it dead? Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point.

    We have left all social concerns and so many other shackles. For what? For the Absolute Truth And wherever I shall find that, I must bow down my head. And if a great soul shows us, "This is the path to where you will find your thirst quenched. The line is in this zigzag way," we must accept that for our own interest. We are worshipers not of this form, but of substance. Wherever I feel the presence of my Lord in an intense form, I must be attracted to that side. Krsna says, sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Wherever we shall find Him, we must run in that direction. My interest is with Him. Not that we can challenge, "Why did Krsna appear here, and why is He appearing there?" If a man in a boat is passing through the current and finds himself in danger, then from whatever side help may come, he must run to that side."

    from Sri Guru and His Grace:



    If you are who I think you are then I'm very sorry that I yelled at you in Govardhana. I know only too well that I cannot be around anyone when I am plagued by fatigue, physical illness and near starvation. Forewarned was forearmed.


    For you as Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja's diksa disciple it is your present position to be ahaituki, single pointed, in the direction of your gurueva. Doesn't bother me in the least. However you should also be broadminded with regard to all the other Gaudya acaryas, as your spiritual master certainly is. Be on guard because Srila Bhaktivinioda Thakura has observed:


    "Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people."


    Non-Sectarian Vaisnava-Dharma

    [On the nature of sectarianism from the

    introduction to the Sri Krsna Samhita]



    For other sadhakas who were fortunate to have also taken the association of Srila Swami Maharaja, their perspepctive and point of view is perhaps something you will not ever appreciate or understand. No matter, no harm and so what? We are all family members in the same group are we not?



    And God Puru, don't flip out, none of this is directed at you.

    No to worry prabhu. Since returning to NY I am recovering my health slowly, and I can cook without too much salt and/or red chillies,get adequate rest and worship Thakurji without anyone telling me that I am not qualified to do so. I only have to deal with the contention that comes from famly members, who are never satisfied no matter what I do, and stay focused on my service to Sri Guru and Gauranga. Stay well and please forgive any offenses I may have committed at your feet either wililngly or unwilingly, due to the physical pain of severe edema (swelling) in my 58 year old legs,and the fatigue that 6 months in India had inflicted upon me.


    There's no need of practising brahmacari in this age - remember, acceptance of sannyas is even forbidden. Instead, spiritually inclined children, the future preachers are of importance. This world is in great need of powerful devotees and NOT neophyte brahmacaris! So many advanced devotees are waiting to take birth on earth and spread the yuga-dharma with great force!?

    The Brahma-vaivarta Purana (Krsna-khanda 115.112-113) states:

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    asvamedham gavalambham sannyasam palapaitrkam





    devarena sutotpattim kalau panca vivarjayet



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    In Kali-yuga five activities are forbidden: the offering of a horse in sacrifice,the offering of a cow in sacrifice, the acceptance of sannyasa, offering flesh to the forefathers, and begetting children through a husband’s brother.

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    Some people try to establish on the basis of this sloka that the acceptance of sannyasa is forbidden in Kali-yuga. However, this sloka has a hidden intention. The purpose of this sloka is not to forbid sannyasa altogether. Indeed, many great personalities who appeared in Kali-yuga were tyagis or sannyasis, including Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhva, Sri Visnu-svami, and other acaryas who were well acquainted with all the sastras, as well as the crown jewels of all acaryas, the Six Gosvamis, who were bhaktas of Sri Gaura.

    The pure succession of sannyasa is continuing, even today. The injunction against accepting sannyasa in Kali-yuga actually means that it is improper to accept the ekadanda-sannyasa that evolved from the unauthorized line of thought propagated by Acarya Sankara, and which is expressed in maxims such as so ‘ham (I am that brahma) and aham brahmasmi (I am brahma). It is this type of sannyasa that has been forbidden.

    Tridanda-sannyasa is the real, perpetual sannyasa, and it is applicable at all times. Sometimes tridanda-sannyasa externally appears in the form of ekadanda-sannyasa. Ekadanda-sannyasis of this type, who are actually great souls, accept the eternality of tridandasannyasa that symbolizes the three features of sevya (the object ofservice), sevaka (the servitor), and seva (service). Such people consider the ekadanda-sannyasa propagated by Sankara to be completely unauthorized and not supported by sastra. It is therefore proven, even on the basis of the Brahma-vaivarta Purana sloka cited by smarta acaryas, that it is logical for sadhakas who are pursuing the nivrtti-marga to accept sannyasa.


    excerpted from Chapter 7 of Srila Bhaktivnoda Thakura's

    Jaiva Dharma:

    Chapter 7 -- Nitya-Dharma & Material Existence

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    And perhaps it is a personal opinion, but I think it would be impossible to 'codify' the words of all predecessor acaryas into one particular purport.. And Swamiji by no means did that, If you read Sanantana's Vaisnava tosani, or visvanath's sararth darsini then perhaps you may then be qualified to say something. No other Acarya has done that, nor have they claimed to.



    I did not say that His Divine grace "codified the words of all the predeecesor acaryas into one particular purport" did I? I said


    "His Divine Grace's genius was that he could summarize and codify the other commentaries into his "own" purport and present the material in a digestable and easily understandable format for neophyte western disciples, and any other readers in general."


    I also said I would contact Pradyumna prabhu


    "For the exact names of the other acaryas' tikhas in the SB he used we can consult Pradyumna prabhu, who also worked with the same book. I will try to contact him and ask."


    and find out which Vaisnava acaryas His Divine Grace refered to (codified if you will) when he did his SB translation work.


    I can repeat what I have heard from my preceptors according to my own realization. Some realization,however limited it may be, to the potency and efficacy of His Divine Grace's books, I do have, whether you think so or not.


    You have read the Vaisnava tosani and Sararth darsini in their original language??? Making claims that I said this or that when I did not is typical internet diatribe. Call the dog bad and then hang him. Shame GuestAN, cheap shots.


    Yes, well I was in the room when he said, "I think my books will be 'more' than what Swamiji gave." And if you've read them -- which I'm sure you have -- you should realize that.


    You are missing my point completely. Srila Prabhupada said in l936:


    "Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone else’s.

    There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me and all others. . ."




    What Srila Gurudeva is doing is revolutionary. No other acarya has, with such rasik realization, distributed the confidential meanings and essential purports on Gaudiya Siddhanta while maintaining the traditional integrity of all these texts as Srila Gurudeva has done -- nobody.

    What is your name ? Where were you and when did you hear Srila Gurudeva say ""I think my books will be 'more' than what Swamiji gave."

    Where can we read the whole conversation and not just one sentence out of context that will be easily misinterpreted by envious persons who have no mamata for Srila Narayana Maharaja's association?


    In one sense the SB recitation by Suta Gosvami is "more" than the earlier recitation of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami.After all it also contains additional questions and answers of the sages of Naimisharanya. Such recitation by Srila Suta Gosvami only serves to glorify all the more the earlier speaker,his spiritual master Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, does it not???


    Every acarya is unique in himself. Kindly examine samples of the vanih of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja



    and in particular his commentary on the 4 catur slokas of the Bg.:



    before you falsely imply that Srila Gurudeva is the "only" rasika Vaisnava acarya. Certainly his writing is unique. No one else has translated into Hindi the particular tikhas and choice of literature that he has done. That is the nature of our guru parampara. They each make a particular contribution to the Gaudiya library, as did the four sampradaya acaryas when they each presented their respective philosophical answers to Sankaracarya,


    Also if you examine carefully the writings of Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaja,


    You will find many parrallels to Srila Gurudeva's classes and purports.



    His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada also wrote:


    in the purport to Cc. Adi lila 7.37,:


    “ Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was an ideal acarya. An acarya is an ideal teacher who knows the purpose of the revealed scriptures, behaves exactly according to their injunctions and teaches his students to adopt these principles also. As an ideal acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu devised ways to capture all kinds of atheists and materialists. Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method of one acarya may be different from that of another, but the ultimate goal is never neglected. Srila Rupa Gosvami recommends:


    tasmat kenapy upayena

    manah krsne nivesayet

    sarve vidhi-nisedha syur

    etayor eva kinkarah


    An acarya should devise a means by which people may somehow or other come to Krsna consciousness. First they should become Krsna conscious, and all the prescribed rules and regulations may later gradually be introduced. In our Krsna consciousness movement we follow this policy of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu...”

    “...It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration...”

    Cc. Adi lila 7.37-38


    It behooves you to inject false distinction into the mix in your inappropriatel worded attempt to glorify Srila Narayan Maharaj's literary contribution. Makes me beleive that you do not realize Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja's mood, and while you claim to be his sisya, you are really a sectarian thinker hiding behind a pen name "guest" pretending to be his sisya. Seems to me your attempting to actually discredit rather than glorify him. We see the same narrow thinking from many institutionalized iskcon wallahs and gm bengali fanatics It wears the same.





    And perhaps it is a personal opinion, but I think it would be impossible to 'codify' the words of all predecessor acaryas into one particular purport.. And Swamiji by no means did that, If you read Sanantana's Vaisnava tosani, or visvanath's sararth darsini then perhaps you may then be qualified to say something. No other Acarya has done that, nor have they claimed to.


    Sorry you don't appreciate the depth of Srila Prabhupada's writing. A clear example of what I am pointing out regarding "codify" is his The Nectar of Instruction


    If you examine the translation of this same book, Sri Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvmi, by Srila Narayana Maharaja

    Sri Upadesamrta View



    you can read in English the separate tikhas of Radha Raman Gosvami, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Compare them to Srila Swami Maharaja's commentaries and it is abundantly clear to any open minded reader that he summarized the same information and also added his own stamp, and made the other commentaries digestable and easily understood by the neophyte and advanced English reader. Srila Narayana Maharja so apprecaites this book that he has given many classes based on the Bhaktivedanta purports in it and has also printed them in his English book,

    Essence of All Advise. Sorry I don't have a copy of it online, as of yet.


    Srila Prabhupada never claimed he was the "only" Gaudiya commentator. He expresses abundant appreciation for and quotes the Six Gosvamis, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and almost every other Vaisnava author throughout his Cc. and SB purports. Your attitude makes me think you have not read his books carefully. Kindly don't put words in his mouth,or mine, or anyone else's if you please.



    What did our acaryas do? Whenever they wrote, they closely read their previous acaryas commentaries, and with a straw in their teeth, they wrote any remnants the previous acaryas had mercifully left behind for them. Why is Gurudeva not writing his own 'bhaktivedanta purports' on Rasa Pancadhyayi, because 'they [they -- sridhar, jiva, sanatana and visvanath] have given everything, what more can I give?' The only way to substantiate such an action is to do it the way our more contemporary Acaryas have done (That is BSST Prabhupada and the generation after him, BPK, Bhakti vivek bharati, bhakti dayit madhava, etc). Which, if you've read any other edition of bhagavatam published in Bengali you will see that they FIRST provide the previous acaryas commentary before their own. Then they will, humbly, include their own commentary.


    What Swamiji did was quite revolutionary and I have great respect for it, but it was by no means whatsoever the be all and end all of Bhagavatam.


    No one has made the claim that Srila Prabhupada's books are the "be all and end all." except yourself. I haven't seen this style of diatribe and false insinuation since the VNN forums.


    Most of the readers of His Divine Grace's books, ,including myself, are not fluent in Bengali. His contribution in English is certainly unique. Who else except perhaps Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has made KC so readily available to the English speaking world? Was that not the desire and mood of SBSST, to offer KC to all human beings around the world, not just India. Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, another living acarya says that very thing boldly in his classes, spoken in Hindi in Delhi, and translated by his secretary Tamal Krsna Prabhu into English for the benefit of everyone from the west is not bi-lingual.



    "With all due respepct" actually means with none at all, and you sound like a follower of the part of the GM that lacked sufficient appreciation of His Divine Grace's preaching. Some members of the GM (names are unecessary) also could similarly not appreciate His Divine Grace's Krsna Book (summary study of the 10th Canto) because it was written in prose, with the purports melted throught the descriptions of the lila, and hasa no sankskrit verse and word for word translations. Such thinking places form over substance. Such thinkers also don't see the value of the Nectar of Devotion, the summar study of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu either.


    You are no doubt a subtle fault finder extraordinaire, and I doubt seriously that you are the sisya of SBVNM. Who are you anyway?


    It behooves anyone to glorify one spiritual master at the "expense" of another.

  13. Ladies and gentlemen, today’s subject matter is the teachings of the Vedas. What are the Vedas? The Sanskrit verbal root of veda can be interpreted variously, but the purport is finally one. Veda means knowledge. Any knowledge you accept is veda, for the teachings of the Vedas are the original knowledge.. . .


    The Vedas are not compilations of human knowledge. Vedic knowledge comes from the spiritual world, from Lord Krishna. Another name for the Vedas is sruti. Sruti refers to that knowledge which is acquired by hearing. It is not experimental knowledge. Sruti is considered to be like a mother. We take so much knowledge from our mother. For example, if you want to know who your father is, who can answer you? Your mother. If the mother says, “Here is your father,” you have to accept it. It is not possible to experiment to find out whether he is your father. Similarly, if you want to know something beyond your experience, beyond your experimental knowledge, beyond the activities of the senses, then you have to accept the Vedas. There is no question of experimenting. It has already been experimented. It is already settled. The version of the mother, for instance, has to be accepted as truth. There is no other way.


    The Vedas are considered to be the mother, and Brahma is called the grandfather, the forefather, because he was the first to be instructed in the Vedic knowledge. In the beginning the first living creature was Brahma. He received this Vedic knowledge and imparted it to Narada and other disciples and sons, and they also distributed it to their disciples. In this way, the Vedic knowledge comes down by disciplic succession. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita that Vedic knowledge is understood in this way. If you make experimental endeavor, you come to the same conclusion, but just to save time you should accept. If you want to know who your father is and if you accept your mother as the authority, then whatever she says can be accepted without argument. There are three kinds of evidence: pratyaksha, anumana and sabda. Pratyaksha means “direct evidence.” Direct evidence is not very good because our senses are not perfect. We are seeing the sun daily, and it appears to us just like a small disc, but it is actually far, far larger than many planets. Of what value is this seeing? Therefore we have to read books; then we can understand about the sun. So direct experience is not perfect. Then there is anumana, inductive knowledge: “It may be like this”—hypothesis. For instance, Darwin’s theory says it may be like this, it may be like that. But that is not science. That is a suggestion, and it is also not perfect. But if you receive the knowledge from the authoritative sources, that is perfect. If you receive a program guide from the radio station authorities, you accept it. You don’t deny it; you don’t have to make an experiment, because it is received from the authoritative sources.


    Vedic knowledge is called sabda-pramana. Another name is sruti. Sruti means that this knowledge has to be received simply by aural reception. The Vedas instruct that in order to understand transcendental knowledge, we have to hear from the authority. Transcendental knowledge is knowledge from beyond this universe. Within this universe is material knowledge, and beyond this universe is transcendental knowledge. We cannot even go to the end of the universe, so how can we go to the spiritual world? Thus to acquire full knowledge is impossible.


    There is a spiritual sky. There is another nature, which is beyond manifestation and nonmanifestation. But how will you know that there is a sky where the planets and inhabitants are eternal? All this knowledge is there, but how will you make experiments? It is not possible. Therefore you have to take the assistance of the Vedas. This is called Vedic knowledge. In our Krishna consciousness movement we are accepting knowledge from the highest authority, Krishna. Krishna is accepted as the highest authority by all classes of men. I am speaking first of the two classes of transcendentalists. One class of transcendentalists is called impersonalistic, Mayavadi. They are generally known as Vedantists, led by Sankaracarya. And there is another class of transcendentalists, called Vaishnavas, like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Vishnu-svami. Both the Sankara-sampradaya and the Vaishnava-sampradaya have accepted Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sankaracarya is supposed to be an impersonalist who preached impersonalism, impersonal Brahman, but it is a fact that he is a covered personalist. In his commentary on the Bhagavad-gita he wrote, “Narayana, the Su-preme Personality of Godhead, is beyond this cosmic manifestation.” And then again he confirmed, “That Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, is Krishna. He has come as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva.” He particularly mentioned the names of His father and mother. So Krishna is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all transcendentalists. There is no doubt about it. Our source of knowledge in Krishna consciousness is the Bhagavad-gita, which comes directly from Krishna. We have published the Bhagavad-gita As It Is because we accept Krishna as He is speaking, without any interpretation. That is Vedic knowledge. Since the Vedic knowledge is pure, we accept it. Whatever Krishna says, we accept. This is Krishna consciousness. That saves much time. If you accept the right authority, or source of knowledge, then you save much time. For example, there are two systems of knowledge in the material world: inductive and deductive. From deductive, you accept that man is mortal. Your father says man is mortal, your sister says man is mortal, everyone says man is mortal—but you do not experiment. You accept it as a fact that man is mortal. If you want to research to find out whether man is mortal, you have to study each and every man, and you may come to think that there may be some man who is not dying but you have not seen him yet. So in this way your research will never be finished. In Sanskrit this process is called aroha, the ascending process. If you want to attain knowledge by any personal endeavor, by exercising your imperfect senses, you will never come to the right conclusions. That is not possible.


    There is a statement in the Brahma-samhita: Just ride on the airplane which runs at the speed of mind. Our material airplanes can run two thousand miles per hour, but what is the speed of mind? You are sitting at home, you immediately think of India—say, ten thousand miles away—and at once it is in your home. Your mind has gone there. The mind-speed is so swift. Therefore it is stated, “If you travel at this speed for millions of years, you’ll find that the spiritual sky is unlimited.” It is not possible even to approach it. Therefore, the Vedic injunction is that one must approach—the word “compulsory” is used—a bona fide spiritual master, a guru. And what is the qualification of a spiritual master? He is one who has rightly heard the Vedic message from the right source. And he must practically be firmly established in Brahman. These are the two qualities he must have. Otherwise he is not bona fide


    . . . Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali-yuga. He knew that eventually the people would be short-lived, their memories would be very poor, and their intelligence would not be very sharp. “Therefore, let me teach this Vedic knowledge in writing.” He divided the Vedas into four: Rig, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. He then thought of the less intelligent class of men—stri, sudra and dvija-bandhu. He considered the woman class and sudra class (worker class) and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu refers to those who are born in a high family but who are not properly qualified. A man who is born in the family of a brahmana but is not qualified as a brahmana is called dvija-bandhu. For these persons he compiled the Mahabharata, called the history of India, and the eighteen Puranas. These are all part of the Vedic literature: the Puranas, the Mahabharata, the four Vedas and the Upanishads. The Upanishads are part of the Vedas. Then Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas.


    Vyasadeva personally wrote the Vedanta-sutra under the instructions of Narada, his Guru Maharaja (spiritual master), but still he was not satisfied. That is a long story, described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vedavyasa was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanishads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, “You explain the Vedanta-sutra.” Vedanta means “ultimate knowledge,” and the ultimate knowledge is Krishna. Krishna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krid veda-vid eva caham. Krishna says, “I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas.” Therefore the ultimate objective is Krishna. That is explained in all the Vaishnava commentaries on Vedanta philosophy. We Gaudiya Vaishnavas have our commentary on Vedanta philosophy, called Govinda-bhashya, by Baladeva Vidyabhushana. Similarly, Ramanujacarya has a commentary, and Madhvacarya has one. The version of Sankaracarya is not the only commentary. There are many Vedanta commentaries, but because the Vaishnavas did not present the first Vedanta commentary, people are under the wrong impression that Sankaracarya’s is the only Vedanta commentary. Besides that, Vyasadeva himself wrote the perfect Vedanta commentary, Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the first words of the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. And that janmady asya yatah is fully explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: “The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.” This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (sva-rat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.


    My Gurudeva, Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami is planning on publishing the full Bhagavatam with the commentary of Srila Visvanath Cakravarti. Though Swami Maharaj's is a good attempt, though uncomplete and without the complete commentary of any previous Gaudiya Acarya this next edition will close the book. We plan to publish the 10-12 Cantos first as an addendum to Swamijis work and then the remaining 1-9 Cantos to completion.


    If Srila Gurudev remains with us to see it through, it will be an unparalleled work completed for the first time by any Gaudiya Acarya in English.

    I am also Srila Gurudeva's sisya ( for more than 9 years) and I have never heard him use the words "good attempt" in describing Srila Prabhupada's translation work. Perhaps you should use the English language more carefully prabhuji, lest anyone misunderstand that your remarks might "minimize" Srila Prabhupada's contribution. The only "incomplete" aspect of his translation is that he only had time to translate up to the 13th chapter of the 10th Canto. Otherwise his commentaries,while they may not contain all the details of "every" other tikha by every other Gaudiya acarya, are lacking nothing. Forgive me for correcting you but they also do contain the commentaries of many of the previous acharyas, only not in an obvious way.


    His Divine Grace did his Bhagavatam purports only after reading and consulting the commentaries of other Vaisnava Acaryas. In fact the SB in sanskrit that he worked from, (which is on his book shelf in the L.A. Iskcon temple)contains for each verse the commentaries of Srila Sridhar Swami, and others. His Divine Grace's genius was that he could summarize and codify the other commentaries into his "own" purport and present the material in a digestable and easily understandable format for neophyte western disciples, and any other readers in general. I have been reading his translations and purports for over 35 years, and now studying them under Srila Gurudeva's anugatya their depth and the transcendental genius of His Divine Grace becomess even more apparant,with each new reading. They are ever fresh and will always be most valuable to the English speaking world, as are the English books of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura etc.



    For the exact names of the other acaryas' tikhas in the SB he used we can consult Pradyumna prabhu, who also worked with the same book. I will try to contact him and ask.


    There are always many perspectives to any shastra, and Srila Gurudeva is translating the commentaries of one particular acarya, the exalted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Rather than "close" the book I think better to observe that it will "open" the book, to even deeper understanding. The SB has been expanding over history since it was first spoken in four nutshell verses and gradually expanded to more verses and more commentaries over time. Who is to say that the next acarya who succeeds Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja, will not also take the jiva souls even further in their capacity to appreciate and understand this shastra?



    I appreciate you appreciate the endeavors of your spiritual master. Take note that he is first translating the 10th and 11th and 12th Cantos, and then only going back to 1-9? Why? Because should ne not have sufficient time to finish, in print now are those first nine cantos and part of the 10th, done by His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and they will stand the test of time.


    Anotehr reason we can understand from Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja's vanih. He explained that it is not really possible to fully understand and appreciate the 10th Canto without absorbing the information contained in the last two cantos beyond it. Srila Gurudeva knows what is going to benefit the jiva souls eternally. Srila Gurudeva's timing is perfect. As his translation of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita purports of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur perfectly compliment The Bhagavad Gita As It Is, so will this new translation of SB compliment the existing work in English. Also it will be some time for the English versions to be made available. Srila Gurudeva is translating from sanskrit into Hindi, which will then have to be translated yet again into English.


    Please forgive my correction, but many readers on these forums will not understand your choice of words and perhaps can relate to my observations a little more easily.

    your servant

    uncle puru


    hi, i would like to ask some questions:


    1. Did Srila Vyasadeva wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam?


    2. When was Srimad Bhagavatam written (year)?


    3. Which important vedic literature is written before Srimad Bhagavatam?


    4. Which imoprtant vedic literature is written after Srimad Bhagavatam?


    1. Yes

    2. Why do you need an exact historical date? Try to understand that the version we study is the compilation of the discussion of the sages of Naimisharanya and Suta Gosvami. These sages gathered around 5,000 years ago after the departure of Lord Krsna to His own abode, and also some time after the disappearance of Maharaja Pariksit. The first two chapters of SB explain this history very nicely. Try to examine them carefully to understand how the current version came to bel






    These sages came together at the beginning of kali yuga to perform a huge fire sacrifice to stave off its affect. The ghee for their sacrificial fire would not ignote and burn properly, so they asked 6 questions concerning religiosity and where it had taken shelter. Srila Suta Gosvami was present and had heard the earlier discussion of the King, Maharaja Pariksit and Srila Sukadeva Gosvami,and he repeated to these sages that discussion.


    3. Before The Srimad Bhagavatam was compiled, Srila Vyasadeva compiled so many srutis (written shastras e.g. the four original Vedas), Mahabharata (the Great history of India), the smrti (spoken literatures) like the 18 puranas. He was not satisfied though and inquired from his spiritual master Narada Rsi, why after writing so many books he was still dissatisfied. This discussion is repeated in the SB and was nicely explained by Srila B.V. Narayana Mahara ina lecture given in

    Volgograd, Russia: September 14, 2004



    " . . . In Srimad-Bhagavatam we see that only by the grace of his Gurudeva, Narada Rsi, Sri Vyasadeva knew so many truths. He is a manifestation of Krsna Himself, but he had some doubts. He could not understand, “Why am I not satisfied? Why is my soul not satisfied and happy?” Knowing everything, Narada Rsi at once came to him.

    Narada Rsi has many manifestations. One manifestation is a servant of Narayana, one is an associate of Krsna in Vraja, one is Naradi-gopi and one is Madhumangala. There is one Narada, but he has many manifestations. Sri Narada can remove the doubts of Krsna Himself, in the form of Vyasadeva. If he will come before Mother Yasoda, she will place her son Krsna’s head on his feet, and he will bless her son, saying, “Be happy.” This is a very wonderful thing!



    Sri Vyasadeva is a manifestation of Krsna. He divided the Vedas into four parts – Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva. He wrote the essence of Vedanta, which is Brahma-sutra. He compiled a very large book called Mahabharata, and within Mahabharata he revealed the Bhagavad-gita, the words and teachings of Lord Krsna. He wrote many Puranas – 36 Puranas.


    Once he was sitting on his asana (seat) on the bank of the Sarasvati River and not feeling happy. He was thinking, “Why am I not happy? I have written down all knowledge for the benefit of the world, including dharma (religion), karma (fruitive activity and elevation to heaven), varnasrama-dharma (the means by which the social castes and spiritual asramas can advance in spiritual life), and bhakti (devotion to the Supreme Lord). But I am not happy. Why is that?”



    Being omnipotent and causelessly merciful, Narada Rsi at once arrived at the asrama of Srila Vyasadeva. A bona fide and qualified guru comes, as Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja came – door to door in Western countries. The people living there did not go to him; he went to them.



    Sri Narada Rsi asked Srila Vyasadeva, “You have performed all your duties to the world, and yet you are not happy. Why are you lamenting?”

    Vyasadeva replied, “I do not know why I am not happy. I have done everything.”



    Narada Rsi said, “You are not happy because you have written about dharma (religiosity), kama (sense gratification), arta (economic development) and moksa (liberation), but you have not described the glorification of Lord Krsna. Have you written that Mother Yasoda bound the Supreme Lord?” “No.” “Have you written that Krsna offered His head and flute at the lotus feet of the gopis?” Srila Vyasadeva replied, “No, I have not.” “Krsna laments for the gopis, feeling separation from them. Have you written this? He is atmarama (fully satisfied within) and atmakama (externally fulfilled), so why does He do so? Have you written about this?”



    Sri Narada Muni then told Srila Vyasadeva his own past history, explaining how he reached to the standard of uttama-bhakti. He described how, by taking the remnants of pure devotees’ prasada and by hearing their hari-katha during Caturmasya (the four months of the rainy season when saintly devotees don’t travel, but rather stay in one place and enlighten the residents of that place), he became glorious and realized everything about the Absolute Truth and this world also – and became Narada Rsi. *



    *(Please see chapter4,5 & 6 of First Canto Srimad Bhagavatam for the rest of this history.)

    Chapter Four: The Appearance of Sri Narada


    Chapter Five: Narada's Instructions on Srimad-Bhagavatam for Vyasadeva


    Chapter Six: Conversation Between Narada and Vyasadeva




    This is the process by which one attains his siddha-deha (spiritual body). First svarupa-siddhi (realization within the heart of God’s form and ones own form) comes, and after that vastu-siddhi comes (the stage at which one gives up his material body and attains a body fit for associating with God). All truths about gradual advancement in Krsna Consciousness are found in this history of Srimad-Bhagavatam. First, Narada Rsi served his Gurudeva and the other rsis (saints) and maharsis (saintly kings) in all respects. When he would go with his Gurus to take bath in the river, Narada Rsi would carry cloth for drying them. He would massage them and render all other appropriate services. He would honor the remnants of their prasadam with their permission. This is the process: to serve Gurudeva first. Krsna will then appear in your heart, as in the example of Sri Narada Rsi. He served his gurus, and they gave him the mantra. By the power of mantra, Narada became a high class of devotee in a very short time



    Lord Krsna came to Narada in the form of Lord Narayana and told him, “I regret that during this lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all material taints can hardly see Me.”



    Don’t desire anything. Always chant, remember and serve Gurudeva. If you have any desire other than to serve Krsna your bhakti will come very late. Even if you have a personal desire in relation to serving Krsna, still, your progress will be impeded.



    We should not have any doubt about what is the process of bhakti. Everything has been explained here. Sri Narada Rsi thought, “I will go to a forest in the mood of goodness and serve Krsna there.” He had a slightly independent mood. However, by his separation feelings that were created when Lord Narayana disappeared, his desire was burnt to ashes . He became pure, and Lord Krsna manifested Himself in his heart at once.

    I have come to give this message to you. This is the message of Krsna Himself, Srimad-bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, and the entire guru-parampara. Do not have any doubts in this message. Try to remove your false ego so you can understand and follow the path of pure bhakti."






    4. There are too many books to list here. All the writings of the Six Govamis of Vrndavana, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Srila Krsnadas kaviraja Gosvami, the collected works of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and all of the books of our predecesor acaryas are there. In Cc. Srila Prabhupada gives several lists of the books of Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatana Gosvamis. I will look for them and post them seperately.

  16. http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/04-07/news1161.htm



    Passing of HG Suhotra Prabhu


    It is with great sadness that we have to announce the departure of His Grace Suhotra Prabhu from this world. Since joining the gurukula full time in 2004 he worked continuously on the study guide of the Srimad Bhagavatam, almost to the exclusion of anything else.


    On Tuesday 3rd April, he announced to his class that he would be starting a one month marathon of study and writing and wouldn’t be free to give class anymore.


    It was not uncommon for Suhotraji to work 36 hours straight at times in the privacy of his room, even taking prasadam in there. On Saturday 7th April he mentioned that his mind had become very peaceful now that he could immerse himself completely in his study and writing of the Bhagavatam guide. He preferred to be left to himself when writing and would call for anything he needed.


    On Monday 9th April, Vagisa Prabhu went to call Suhotra Prabhu to take an international telephone call. The door to Suhotraji’s room was latched from the inside and the lights off. Since Vagisa Prabhu could not get any reply he forced the door open and found Suhotra Prabhu lying on his bed, his back against the wall and his feet stretched out in front of him, crossed at the ankles. His right hand was in his bead bag and his left at his side. A light chadder lay across his body and legs. Although it appeared that Suhotra Prabhu has left his body some time before, Vagisa Prabhu called Madhava Gauranga Prabhu who confirmed that he had gone.


    The government doctor stated off the record that the visible signs were consistent with a heart attack. Suhotra Prabhu’s body was subsequently taken to Krishnanagar by officials of the government, accompanied by Rama Vijaya Prabhu, and Jagannatha Misra Prabhu and other devotees from the temple for the official post mortem. The results of the post mortem confirm the initial report. Suhotraji left this world from massive cardiac failure.


    In accordance with Vaisnava rituals his body will be cremated as soon as the government officials release it


    We at the Bhaktivedanta Academy feel the loss of Suhotra Prabhu deeply, along with all other devotees who are his friends and well wishers.


    Your Servants,

    The devotees of the Bhaktivedanta Academy




    how many books is srimad bhagavatam?
    Depends which printing you get ahold of.


    His Divine Grace published three volumes only in india lfrom 1962-1964



    On my book shelf, I count 28 volumes published during his nara lila from 1972-76.



    from his introduction:

    ". . . Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the definition of the ultimate source. It is a bona fide commentary on the Vedanta-sutra by the same author, Srila Vyasadeva, and gradually it develops into nine cantos up to the highest state of God realization. The only qualification one needs to study this great book of transcendental knowledge is to proceed step by step cautiously and not jump forward haphazardly like with an ordinary book. It should be gone through chapter by chapter, one after another. The reading matter is so arranged with its original Sanskrit text, its English transliteration, synonyms, translation and purports so that one is sure to become a God-realized soul at the end of finishing the first nine cantos.


    The Tenth Canto is distinct from the first nine cantos because it deals directly with the transcendental activities of the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna. One will be unable to capture the effects of the Tenth Canto without going through the first nine cantos. The book is complete in twelve cantos, each independent, but it is good for all to read them in small installments one after another.


    I must admit my frailties in presenting Srimad-Bhagavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.11):

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o />

    tad-vag-visargo janatagha-viplavo

    yasmin prati-slokam abaddhavaty api

    namany anantasya yaso 'nkitani yac

    chrnvanti gayanti grnanti sadhavah

    "On the other hand, that literature which is full with descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, form and pastimes of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a transcendental creation meant to bring about a revolution in the impious life of a misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though irregularly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest."

    Om tat sat

    A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

    Dated at Delhi

    December 15, 1962"


    Since his departure in l977 the publishers have changed many things, including the # of volumes, and have printed one volume per canto. Hamsadutta printed smaller sized "original" versions with black bindings , and Bhagavan printed a European version.

  18. <center>http://bvml.org/SGGM/als.html

    A Living Sadhu


    </center> <center>by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja


    </center> [From Chapter Six of Pariprasna: The Process of Inquiry]


    Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes, and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu can we do that through Srila Prabhupada's books?

    Present in His Books


    Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?

    Devotee: Through his books.

    Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books.

    This is not a new thing. This is our vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami ? You may say, "Oh I have read their books, I have their association." That won't help you. You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books.Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. They are very, very merciful, but you should follow the proper path. If you are intelligent you will understand how they are still here, not only in the form of their books but also they are here. You should see them. Why are you thinking so foolishly? So many books were already there, so why has Srila Prabhupada said this? You are thinking, "We need only to read books. There is no need of association with a sadhu who is physically present. Is there any sadhu? No, there is no sadhu at all."

    Seeing is Believing


    Your motto is, "Seeing is believing." You cannot see, so you cannot believe. Because you are a conditioned soul your vision is defective. You cannot see a sadhu.

    Krsna is there, can you see him? No, you cannot, because you are not endowed with proper vision. First develop the proper vision and then you can see Krsna. Then you can see how a sadhu is there. It is not a fact that sadhus are not present. How is everything going on? How does the sun rise, the wind blow, and Indra give rain? All these things are going on. No sadhu? No Krsna? It's nonsense, foolishness. We are so proud and puffed up. We are indentifying our self as the body, mind and false ego. We think we are very great. So we say "Oh there is no sadhu." We are in the category of identification with the body and mind. We have not come to the beginning of the stage of purity. No!

    Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

    Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no.

    You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

    Merciful Glance


    Devotee: How are we seen by the sadhu by our service?

    Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. The sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortunate. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it?

    Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart.

    Devotee: I don't quite understand.

    Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, try to understand. As I told you, just hear patiently. A new bhakta cannot understand it because it is a topic of the highest class. You are in pre-primary class, how can you understand? You are not even in the primary class. How can you understand this topic of the highest class? Just accept the bona fide authorities. That will help you. The teacher says, "Two plus two is four." The primary school student accepts it. If the teacher asks the child, "What is two plus two?" The child will reply, "Two plus two is four.Why is two plus two four? My teacher says." He will answer like this. That means he has accepted authority. This is the only principle in the beginning. How is two plus two four? Why not three or five? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class, not in the beginning. You have to have patience and get a promotion. My guru maharaj says in his purport that the beginning is purity of consciousness. First come to this beginning stage, then gradually other things will come up. You are not in the beginning stage so how will the higher topics come up? This is a very, very subtle and very deep philosophy.


    Putting full faith in the sadhu you need only submissively hear --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. In that way you can get the mercy of that sadhu. That will help you. Only one thing is required, nothing else --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. Just hear. Serve that sadhu, please him, hear submissively, surrender yourself at his lotus feet and submissively ask questions. Out of mercy the sadhu will impart tattva-jnana to you.This is the only process.


    Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing, it is always there, it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! It is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

    <hr> [Pages 108-109]

    <center>Genuine Sadhu-sanga


    </center> Devotee: Paramatma is comparable to guru in some ways?

    Gour Govinda Swami: Paramatma is the manifestation of guru and guru is the manifestation of Paramatma. Katha Upanisad says:


    nayam atma pravacanena labhyo

    na medhaya na bahuna srutena

    yam evaisa vrnute tena labyas

    tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam

    </center> The Supreme Self can never be known by any amount of arguments, reasoning, intelligence, or by much hearing. To those whom He chooses, however, He may reveal His personal form.(Katha Upanisad 1.2.23) If someone is crying for Krsna, Paramatma knows. Then Paramatma assumes a body and appears. When He appears externally He is guru. "Tanu" means body. Vivrnute tanum svam --- He assumes a body and is known as caitya-guru. Therefore I say cry, cry, cry! Paramatma will know, "Now he is crying for Me." In this regard, sadhu-sanga is most important. And that means sadhu in the true sense, not a hypocrite sadhu, not a bogus sadhu --- a real sadhu. "Guru" means heavy, not laghu. These words have their meanings and you should understand them. If you really meet guru then your association with laghus will be bitter. That's a most important thing. That's the test who is guru.


    "Laghu" means material things. You are associating with material poets, material politicians, material wealthy persons and material learned persons. They are laghus. When you associate with a sadhu and get his krpa then automatically the taste will be bitter and you will no longer like to associate with laghus. You should associate with a real sadhu. Sadhu-krpa, the mercy of a sadhu, is powerful. It is a most important thing. It is said, vaisnava-krpaya tara sarva-siddhi --- If you can get the mercy of a vaisnava sadhu then you will achieve all perfection. Moreover, it must be with a real sadhu, a sadhu in the true sense of the term. Not a hypocrite or bogus sadhu or kali-cela! They are only posing like sadhu. If a genuine sadhu cast his merciful glance on you, then you have it! Sadhu-sanga is most important, most important, most important. One should develop greed for such a type of sadhu-sanga. Don't resist such greed. You are greedy for material accumulations. That is your enemy. That will lead you to hell. Now become greedy for this, to have such sadhu-sanga. "How can I get it, how can I get it?" Develop this greed. It should not be resisted. It is the only thing needed.


    <hr> [Pages 113-114]

    <center>Blind Leading the Blind


    </center> Devotee: What if a devotee is initiated but he has not reached the stage of nista. Should he accept guidance from a superior vaisnava? Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, they are teachers-siksa-guru.

    Devotee: If one thinks I have my guru already, like Prabhupada, and I don't need any guidance?

    Gour Govinda Swami: No, the moment this enters you are finished! You are welcoming your fall down. If one is not free from anarthas, how can he lead? He is a blind man. If a blind man is leading another blind man all will fall into a ditch, finished! The leader falls then the followers fall. This is going on.

    Devotee: Maharaj, you were explaining two processes for controlling the mind. One was to turn a deaf ear to the mind. I think the other was taking shelter of a guru who has taken shelter of Hari?

    Gour Govinda Swami: Sadhu-hari-guru caranopasanastrah- There are two weapons: First, turn a deaf ear to the promptings of your wicked mind. If you lend an ear your mind will capture you. It will become your master and you will become weak. The second weapon is guror hares caranopasanastrah

    (S.B.CH.11Text 17) --- Service to the lotus feet of guru and Krsna.

    Devotee: Because you love your spiritual master you don't want to fall down, in that way you control the mind. Is that how it works?

    Gour Govinda Swami: Guru will inflict discipline on you. Sisya means under discipline. Sisyas te ham sadhi mam tvam prapannam the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita Arjuna says, "I am now Your disciple, please inflict discipline on me." If guru inflicts discipline on you he will catch hold of your ear and slap you. "You rascal, idiot, kanka. Why are you doing this?" Discipline means punishment. Guru has the right to chastise you. And by that chastisement your heart will be cleansed, your anarthas will go. Otherwise how will they go? Accept that discipline ungrudgingly. Don't complain, "You rascal guru." Rather you should think, " Oh, gurudeva has inflicted punishment on me. I am so fortunate. I am getting krpa now." If guru never inflicts his punishment on you it means no krpa.

    Devotee: Like Sivananda Sena. Nityananda Prabhu kicked him.

    Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, he kicked him, "You rascal, what are you doing!"

    Sivananda Sena was not there. He came late and Nityananda Prabhu got angry, "Where is that rascal Sivananda Sena?" Then Nityananda Prabhu kicked him. Then Sivananda Sena started dancing, "Oh today I have got such good fortune. He kicked me." His wife was weeping and crying, but Sivananda Sena danced in pleasure. This is vaisnava-krpa, the devotee's mercy. . .

    <hr> bml_logo.gifsggm-th.jpg


    Srila Gour Govinda

    Maharaja Page

    <center> .






    by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura Prabhupada






    The desire for sadhu-sanga and the inclination to serve Krishna (krishna-anusilana) appear in the jiva by the influence of sukriti.

    The jiva’s aversion to Bhagavan is the result of his desire for sense enjoyment;consequently, he wanders throughout this world with the hope of attaining happiness. As long as his desire for worldly happiness does not wane, an inclination to serve Bhagavan cannot possibly arise in him. However, with the accumulation of abundant sukriti, or spiritual merit, his desire for worldly enjoyment slackens. This is the result of Bhagavan’s gradual mercy upon him. It is then that the desire for sadhu-sanga, the association of saintly persons, arises within him naturally.


    Sraddha, or transcendental faith, arises by discussing topics about Krishna in sadhu-sanga. With the jiva’s increasing effort to engage in the cultivation of activities related to Krishna, a greed to attain Bhagavan appears within him. At that time, one should accept the shelter of the lotus feet of a guru whose character is spotless and who has full knowledge of philosophical truths. One should learn the art of bhajana from such a guru. Only by the strength of his bhajana does the jiva attain the complete mercy of Bhagavan. . ."







    There is one purport somwhere where HDG talks about aversion to taking the association of pure souls. I will look it up for you and post it later.






    In looking for the "aversion" statement by HDG I came upon this chapter of a small booklet written by Srila Promod Puri Gosvami. In his words of caution to us about sahajiyisn he also says some thing about misconceptions:



    One's natural aversion to purified devotional practices plus one's own immature judgment of the sublime instructions of the scriptures or of the great souls will result unerringly in gross and blatant misconceptions.





    Essence of Pure Devotion (Part VI)

    Raganuga Bhakti





    (Spontaneous Devotion)






    by His Divine Grace






    Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Goswami Maharaja












    ". . . We can understand from the writings of the great souls, to accomplish the natural loving affinity for the lotus feet of Sri Krishna is the goal of the living entity. This has been exhibited by the purified denizens of Vraja and the confidential associates of Sri Krishna in the manner of spontaneous devotional service. This stage will warrant entrance to the stage of pure devotion to the Lord.





    Still, one should understand that just by formal practice these moods of the Vrajabasis are scarcely obtained. We necessarily still make the attempt to come to the stage of spontaneity of devotion. Nevertheless, this deep affinity for Lord Krishna cannot be obtained by artificial imitating or otherwise. Therefore, one under the direct shelter of the spiritual master and devotees and equipped with the verified evidence from the scriptures, should take to the practice of chanting the Holy Names with determination. With the desire for such spontaneous loving moods, one should fervently appeal and pray whole-heartedly to the Holy Names while the most compassionate Personified Holy Names, hearing our prayer, will mercifully give entrance to such devotions in seeing our sincere endeavors. Without this shelter of the Holy Names, one in whimsically diving to such high practices can never produce any auspicious results and will instead lead only to the degradation of one's self.





    In the present times, many fraudulent persons, making light of these grave words of the great souls, are making a fad of immature play-acting and exhibition of these high moods of the eternally perfected souls, with their degraded consciousness. These unauthorized sects (sahajiyas) practice the transcendental recollections of the pastimes of the Divine Couple during the eight periods of the day (asta-kaliya-smaran) and in gross imitation use terms like ('siddha deha'), perfected body, "Siddha Pranali", and cheaply formulate their distorted views on such high topics, in other words in complete deviance to pure devotion altogether. Who can give realization of one's identity? Who can be qualified to receive such instructions? What is the real symptom of greed for spontaneous devotion? In opposition of the deviant conclusions of these imitative groups, it is at present of utmost urgency to define these concepts in accordance with the great souls. A materialistic person is usually under the impulse of the usual enemies like lust, anger, etc., how can he, wit his defiled mind, contemplate his original transcendental spiritual body? One's natural aversion to purified devotional practices plus one's own immature judgment of the sublime instructions of the scriptures or of the great souls will result unerringly in gross and blatant misconceptions.




    Thank you prabhu. It cannot get any more direct & clear than this!


    I have no problem with 'book-vadis' that do not wish to associate with advanced Vaisnavas. They may avoid such asssociation at their own peril. To each, his own.


    However, I cannot agree with their assertion that books are enough. The Vaisnava Acaryas teachings contradict their belief. I won't waste much time trying to convince them though. I wonder if a major reason for their turning into book-vadis is envy?

    I certainly thought that envy had a lot to do with it when i wrote this article for VNN in 2001

    uly 5, 2001 VNN6818


    Dvesa (Enmity): The Enemy of Bhakti



    I wrote a lot of internet articles then and put this one on my website for the record since it is less political and more shastric. However I don't think I would write such an article today. Then was then and now is now.


    There is one purport somwehre where HDG talks about aversion to taking the association of pure souls. I will look it up for you and post it later.


    I thought that would be my last VNN article and it was better to give up fighting with people who disagreed with me since it always came to a tal fruit discussion. You can't force anyone's sukrti or change anyone's conception unless they are willing to hear the evidence from His Divine Grace's books. Thisyear one godbrother in Mayapura covered his ears when I mentioned the 15th Chapter of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma. He pleaded, "please I can't hear this, stop!!! What to do?. I had to tell him we couldn't discuss KC philosophy and I changed the topic to prajalpa, which satisfied him.


    In this Dvesa article I quoted this passage from SB on the importance of hearing from pure devotees:


    n Srimad Bhagavatam itself we can read in Canto One, Chapter One:

    TEXT 16


    ko va bhagavatas tasya


    suddhi-kamo na srnuyad

    yasah kali-malapaham

    <center>SYNONYMS</center> kah--who; va--rather; bhagavatah--of the Lord; tasya--His; punya--virtuous; sloka-idya--worshipable byprayers; karmanah--deeds; suddhi-kamah--desiring deliverance from all sins; na--not; srnuyat--does hear; yasah--glories; kali--of the age of quarrel; mala-apaham--the agent for sanctification.

    <center>TRANSLATION</center> Who is there, desiring deliverance from the vices of the age of quarrel, who is not willing to hear the virtuous glories of the Lord?

    <center>PURPORT</center>The age of Kali is the most condemned age due to its quarrelsome features. Kali-yuga is so saturated with vicious habits that there is a great fight at the slightest misunderstanding. Those who are engaged in the pure devotional service of the Lord, who are without any desire for self-aggrandizement and who are freed from the effects of fruitive actions and dry philosophical speculations are capable of getting out of the estrangements of this complicated age. The leaders of the people are very much anxious to live in peace and friendship, but they have no information of the simple method of hearing the glories of the Lord. On the contrary, such leaders are opposed to the propagation of the glories of the Lord. In other words, the foolish leaders want to completely deny the existence of the Lord. In the name of secular state, such leaders are enacting various plans every year. But by the insurmountable intricacies of the material nature of the Lord, all these plans for progress are being constantly frustrated. They have no eyes to see that their attempts at peace and friendship are failing. But here isthe hint to get over the hurdle. If we want actual peace, we must open the road to understanding of the Supreme Lord Krsna and glorify Him for His virtuous activities as they are depicted in the pages of Srimad-Bhagavatam.


    SB 1.1.16


    ". . .Without accepting the inconceivable, unlimited potencies of the Lord, one cannot understand that Lord Krsna is the Supreme Soul. By His unlimited potencies, He performs unlimited pastimes also, and no one can describe them in full nor can anyone know them all. Suta Gosvami, speaking Srimad-Bhagavatam before the sages ofNaimisaranya, headed by Saunaka Rsi, gave his verdict in this connection as follows.

    Great sages, please understand that the transcendental pastimes of Lord Krsna are all eternal. They are not ordinary narrations of historical incidents. Such narrations are identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Anyone, therefore, who hears such narrations of the Lord's pastimes becomes immediately freed from the contamination of material existence. And those who are pure devotees enjoy these narrations as nectar entering into their ears. Such narrations were described by Sukadeva Gosvami, the exalted son of Vyasadeva, and anyone who hears them, as well as anyone who describes them for the hearing of others, becomes Krsna conscious. And it is only the Krsna conscious persons who become eligible for going back home, back to Godhead.

    Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-fifth Chapter of Krsna, "Spiritual Instruction for Vasudeva, and the Return of the Six Dead Sons of Devaki by Lord Krsna."

  22. TEXT 5




    One day, after finishing their morning duties by burning a sacrificial fire and offering a seat of esteem to Srila Suta Gosvami, the great sages made inquiries, with great respect, about the following matters.

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    Morning is the best time to hold spiritual services. The great sages offered the speaker of the Bhagavatam an elevated seat of respect called the vyasasana, or the seat of Sri Vyasadeva. Sri Vyasadeva is the original spiritual preceptor for all men. And all other preceptors are considered to be his representatives. A representative is one who can exactly present the viewpoint of Sri Vyasadeva. Sri Vyasadeva impregnated the message of Bhagavatam unto Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, and Sri Suta Gosvami heard it from him (Sri Sukadeva Gosvami). All bona fide representatives of Sri Vyasadeva in the chain of disciplic succession are to be understood to be gosvamis. These gosvamis restrain all their senses, and they stick to the path made by the previous acaryas. The gosvamis do not deliver lectures on the Bhagavatam capriciously. Rather, they execute their services most carefully, following their predecessors who delivered the spiritual message unbroken to them.

    Those who listen to the Bhagavatam may put questions to the speaker in order to elicit the clear meaning, but this should not be done in a challenging spirit. One must submit questions with a great regard for the speaker and the subject matter. This is also the way recommended in Bhagavad-gita. One must learn the transcendental subject by submissive aural reception from the right sources. Therefore these sages addressed the speaker Suta Gosvami with great respect.


    TEXT 6


    rsaya ucuh

    tvaya khalu puranani

    setihasani canagha

    akhyatany apy adhitani

    dharma-sastrani yany uta



    rsayah--the sages; ucuh--said; tvaya--by you; khalu--undoubtedly; puranani--the supplements to the Vedas with illustrative narrations; sa-itihasani--along with the histories; ca--and; anagha--freed from all vices; akhyatani--explained; api--although; adhitani--well read; dharma-sastrani--scriptures giving right directions to progressive life; yani--all these; uta--said.




    The sages said: Respected Suta Gosvami, you are completely free from all vice. You are well versed in all the scriptures famous for religious life, and in the Puranas and the histories as well, for you have gone through them under proper guidance and have also explained them.




    A gosvami, or the bona fide representative of Sri Vyasadeva, must be free from all kinds of vices. The four major vices of Kali-yuga are (1) illicit connection with women, (2) animal slaughter, (3) intoxication, (4) speculative gambling of all sorts. A gosvami must be free from all these vices before he can dare sit on the vyasasana. No one should be allowed to sit on the vyasasana who is not spotless in character and who is not freed from the above-mentioned vices. He not only should be freed from all such vices, but must also be well versed in all revealed scriptures or in the Vedas. The Puranas are also parts of the Vedas. And histories like the Mahabharata or Ramayana are also parts of the Vedas. The acarya or the gosvami must be well acquainted with all these literatures. To hear and explain them is more important than reading them. One can assimilate the knowledge of the revealed scriptures only by hearing and explaining. Hearing is called sravana, and explaining is called kirtana. The two processes of sravana and kirtana are of primary importance to progressive spiritual life. Only one who has properly grasped the transcendental knowledge from the right source by submissive hearing can properly explain the subject.

  23. Dear Deborah Pitts,


    In the matter of how to understand the vanih of any predecessor acarya who has entered maha samadhi, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura wrote one essay addressing the "ritviks" or "lexicographical empiricists" of his own time, with regard to the vanih of his father and the predecessor acarya, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura:


    Thakur Bhaktivinode



    excerpt: ". . . There have, however, already arisen serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of the life and teachings of Srila Thakur Bhaktivinode. Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favour the methods of empiric study of his writings. There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words. There is no honest chance of missing the warnings of Thakur Bhaktivinode. Those, therefore, who are misled by the perusal of his writings are led astray by their own obstinate perversity in sticking to the empiric course which they prefer to cherish against his explicit warnings. Let these unfortunate persons look more carefully into their own hearts for the cause of their misfortunes.


    . . . What are the Scriptures? They are nothing but the record by the pure devotees of the Divine Message appearing on the lips of the pure devotees. The Message conveyed by the devotees is the same in all ages. The words of the devotees are ever identical with the Scriptures. Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard.

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