anadi

Dear Muralidhar Prabhu, Dandavat pranama You are the embodiment of the wonderful devotee Again and again my dandavat pranama. You said Whether a devotee receives FORMAL INITIATION with mantra (klim krishnaya govindaya gopijanaballabhaya swaha), etc..., or whether they receive simply the name of Hari from Sri Guru, (Hare Krishna, or whatever), OBJECTION How could be that the gopala mantra can be used as a FORMAL INITIATION. Maybe I am wrong but formality is there where the real substance is missing. And the gopala mantra is transcendental. I remembered the sages from Dantakaranya forest, they sung gopala mantra for thousands of years, but the result came. They had darshan with the Ishtadeva of the Mantra: And they were given assurance to meet the Lord of their heart Krsna Govinda according their desire, and they were born as gopis. DIKSA can be a formality only in a line with no substantiality. On the other hand we could say, the diksa ceremony is in a particular way anustany (formality), because diksa is a whole process but not really anustany because the diksa process is initiated with the diksa ceremony. I humbly wait for your corrections

The previous post belongs to me. anadi

Dear Guest, accept my danadavat It seems quite logic. And the world has its order again. At least my world. And my simpathy for Madhava Prabhu remains unbroken. What is your opinion about the IMPORTANCE of the transcendetal sound of gopi mantra given from the sad guru to the elevated disciple by the babaji or sannyasa initiation? Can you give a sastric sustainance of your Opinion? And in this connection aply it please to Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami, this mantra is sure that he didn t receive it from Srila Gaurakishore Babaji. I do NOT intend to be offensive but I want to understand this very important point. My second question is: What should be the qualification of the one that GIVE the transcendental sound of hari-nama, diksa and gopi mantra. Many people say that it is not important that they received sannyasa mantra from a guru who falled down because they received it in the name of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami? Acording to the Principle of Transcendental Sound this is no proper initiation, is like a recongnition of their own guru disqualification, with the excuse but our param-guru oder param-param guru was a sad guru. And the ones that were given sannyasa in this way made and continue to make disciples pretending to give the transcendental sound of harinama and diksa. Here it seems to be a interruption in the paramapara. Are this initiations according to the principle below Yo mantra sa guruh sakshat Yo guru sa harih svayam Gurur yasya bhavet tushtas Tasya tushto harir svayam The mantra is itself the guru The guru is directly svayam hari He upon whom guru is pleased Also obtains the pleasure of svayam hari What is the meaning? The guru s spiritual mood of service THE INTERNAL MOOD OF SERVICE to Sri Radhika and Krsna is conveyed to the disciple through the medium of MANTRA. The internal mood of service is transcendental, why? Because bhakti is a function of the svarupa shakti, not of the material senses. And to convey the transcendental (bhakti) you need the transcendental carrier which is the transcendental sound MANTRA, which can be vibrated by the TRANSCENDENTAL person. Who is the transcendental person? The sad rasika guru, the one that relishes rasa in his heart. Everything is given in SEED from within the mantra. Go to guru take the seed!

**Of course Gaura lila is eternal, And Kailasa Prabhu added "Yes, and Srila Rupa Gosvami eternal devotee Lord Sri Caitanya. Lord Caitanya sourse Krisna lila. Lord Caitanya expanse himself in Radha, and later His again "stay" as Lord Caitanya. It is higer aspect, then SP writes - " all sambhoga for neophits." Sastras Goswamis go in Gaura lila in high sense. Krisna lila it is sourse madhurya vipralambha for gaura lila." Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada writes in the begining of Chapter 4 Adi lila The Confidential Reasons for Lord Caitanya's Appearance In this chapter of the epic Caitanya-caritamrta, Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami has stressed that Lord Caitanya appeared for three principal purposes of His own. The first purpose was to relish the position of Srimati Radharani, who is the prime reciprocator of transcendental love of Sri Krsna. Lord Krsna IS THE RESERVOIR of transcendental loving transactions with Srimati Radharani. The subject of those loving transactions is the Lord Himself, and Radharani is the object. Thus the subject, the Lord, wanted to relish the loving mellow in the position of the object, Radharani. The second reason for His appearance was to understand the transcendental mellow of Himself. Lord Krsna is all sweetness. Radharani's attraction for Krsna is sublime, and to experience that attraction and understand the transcendental sweetness of Himself, He accepted the mentality of Radharani. The third reason that Lord Caitanya appeared was to enjoy the bliss tasted by Radharani. The Lord thought that undoubtedly Radharani enjoyed His company and He enjoyed the company of Radharani, but the exchange of transcendental mellow between the spiritual couple was more pleasing to Srimati Radharani than to Sri Krsna. Radharani felt more transcendental pleasure in the company of Krsna than He could understand without taking Her position, but for Sri Krsna to enjoy in the position of Srimati Radharani was impossible because that position was completely foreign to Him. Krsna is the transcendental male, and Radharani is the transcendental female. Therefore, to know the transcendental pleasure of loving Krsna, Lord Krsna Himself appeared as Lord Caitanya, accepting the emotions and bodily luster of Srimati Radharani. Lord Caitanya appeared to fulfill these confidential desires and also to preach the special significance of chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, and to answer the call of Advaita Prabhu. These were secondary reasons. Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami was the principal figure among Lord Caitanya's confidential devotees. The records of his diary have revealed these confidential purposes of the Lord. These revelations have been confirmed by the statements of Srila Rupa Gosvami in his various prayers and poems. This chapter also specifically describes the difference between lust and love. The transactions of Krsna and Radha are completely different from material lust. Therefore the author has very clearly distinguished between them. I hope this is what you meant. but the next one is quite new for me Lord Caitanya expanse himself in Radha and later His again "stay" as Lord Caitanya. Would you like to read something about the gayatri mantra at http://sudhirgoswami.com/2%7ebooks.html That might help to understand better the meaning of gaura vani, even I still doubt it.

raga prabhu accept my dandavat Everything seems quite justified. There is SOME evidence that really Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati took no diksa initiation from Srila Gaura kisóra dasa BABAJI. That means the TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND of diksa wich descends through the paramapara and should be received by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was interrupted. and unfortunely more than that, there is no doubt that he took no gopi mantra initiation (he took sannyasa from a picture) These facts should put the Gaudya Math out of parampara. WHY? Yo mantra sa guruh sakshat Yo guru sa harih svayam Gurur yasya bhavet tushtas Tasya tushto harir svayam The mantra is itself the guru The guru is directly svayam hari He upon whom guru is pleased Also obtains the pleasure of svayam hari What is the meaning? Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana says The guru’s spiritual mood of service THE INTERNAL MOOD OF SERVICE to Sri Radhika and Krsna is conveyed to the disciple through the medium of MANTRA. The internal mood of service is transcendental, why? Because bhakti is a function of the svarupa shakti, not of the material senses. And to convey the transcendental (bhakti) you need the transcendental carrier which is the transcendental sound MANTRA, which can be vibrated by the TRANSCENDENTAL person. Who is the transcendental person? The sad rasika guru, The one that relishes rasa in his heart. Everything is given in SEED from within the mantra. Go to guru take the seed! But if Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati took no diksa, he had no seed to give, because the seed comes only through parampara, through the transcendental sound. Otherwise we need no parampara anymore. Yes it should be like this for all the jivas. But I also heard than when the guru comes directly from the spiritual world Bhagavan gives him the seeds of seva vasana. So if Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati is a manjari, as we are taught, and came with those seeds, in this special case there is no need of parampara as channel of tr. Sound (which is related to nyamagraha) and can be acknowledged that he belongs to that category of maha-bhagavatas which could be included in the so called BHAGAVAT-PARAMPARA. (ok not in the way is designed in the book under discussion) Against it we can say that even Mahaprabhu took diksa, and we could give even more arguments against, who cares. Who attacked first? The babaji or the gaudya math? Does make any difference? Important is that you attained the level to be there, where I hope to be one day. I love you more. Maybe I will meet you one day. Now I am not qualified to meet you. Your web-page is wonderful.

Dear Raga dandavat pranam You said this And by causeless kripa some of us got so much sukriti that we went flying through the Samiti, only to stop there for a brief moment, into higher association. not to hurt my feelings. But because you are sure that Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami is not a pure devotee of the Lord, merged into the asta kalya lila of Sri Sri Radha Krsna, or maybe He is not so pure as your Gurudeva, or maybe not so advanced, or maybe He is not merged 24 hours a day on the bank of Radha Kunda, or maybe because He decided to preach outside of India, you decided that the association with such a person ( in that Vedanta Samiti) is not high enough, and you stopped only for a brief moment there in His association, did you have His association? Really? Oh! Maybe He cannot give wonderful sweet Hari kathas, and His intimate disciples cannot get properly hari bhajana instructions, or His advanced disciples don t weep always when they give hari kathas Oh, maybe this is an offence against Srila Gurudeva and against the Samiti. Oh, maybe Krsna doesn't tolerate offences against His pure devotees. I don't know, You know that I don t know. Many people spoke against Srila Gurudeva, out of different reasons. Maybe you know different histories, on what happened with such people. Sastra speak about the mad elephant, and bhakti lata. into higher association? What association is higher than that of a pure devotee of the Lord. And what association is sweeter that the association of a pure devotee of Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna when Krsna serves Srimati Radhika? Dandavat pranama Dandavat pranama Dandavat pranama

Please accept my humble obeisance, I knew you are a special person, and you must enjoy the association of elevated vaisnavas. May your guru bestow His mercy also upon this dvipada pashu. In Caitanya lila 1. The OBJECT OF LOVE is Brajendra Nadana Sri Krsna, but NOT MANIFESTED. 2. The CONTAINER OF LOVE is Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna with the mood of Radhika and His inner most desire is to meet Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna which is NOT MANIFESTED. This is love in SEPARATION that He wanted to taste. Maybe I am wrong and in Caitanya lila the object of love is not only Brajendra Nanda Sri Krsna but Sri Caitanya Himself. Maybe one unknown reason of His descend, was to be loved in conjugal love in Gaura lila, even if the six Gosvamis never wrote about this. It might be possible that they knew but maybe His message (gaura vani) have been misunderstood by His empowered representatives, and especially Sri Rupa Gosvami should be a pretender, you know sri caitanya mano bishtam... or maybe I am unqualified, oh no, it is for sure that I am unqualified to understand this deeper siddhanta. Maybe they wanted to conceal some of Caitanya s message. You can still continue to give all the jiva s arguments from that article about gaura nagari. I will be honoured to be a frosh in the lap of mother Gages, so that my heart will became somewhat soften, and I can realize something. 2. all the SADHAKAS that come in Caitanya lila are in the mood of servitude. That is what I meant when I said, that in Gaura lila, there is only the servitude mood. Sorry for misunderstanding. Your Objection Can you give examples of people who are sadhakas in Gaura-lila? Oh, sadhakas are not the nitya parikaras of the Lord. They are sadhana bhaktas that came in Caitanya lila to develop further their bhajana, and eventually to be promovated in Krsna lila, and to be born as gopis and learn the final moods. Of course this would be for only a few. Maybe it is wrong Maybe they come to be in conjugal love with Sri Caitanya. Maybe the nitya parikars teach these sadhakas how to love Sri Caitanya in parakya rasa or in svakya. What is GAURA VANI? Remember! This is (was) the question.

Dear raga and unregisered guest dandavat pranama 1. They are deviant not because they are supposed to be in another mood, but because they pretend to be in a mood or rasa that Krsna as Caitanya doesn't share with any of his parikars or sadhakas. 2. According to our siddhanta the other vaishnava sampradayas are not deviant, but the gaura nagaris are deviant. 3. Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna came as Caitanya not to share conjugal love with his parikars or sadhakas. This is NOT GAURA VANI, as gaura nagaris pretend. 4. A corection is necessary: all the SADHAKAS that come in Caitanya lila are in the mood of servitude. That is what I meant when I said, that in Gaura lila, there is only the servitude mood. Sorry for misunderstanding. GAURA VANI is NOT to come in Caitanya lila and enjoy conjugal love. Gaura vani is a pointer on Krsna lila in its intimate and sweetest aspect 5. I am not against any sampradaya because everybody worships the Lord according to his adhikara, and every vaisnava, brahmana and human beeing should be respected accordingly. 6. We allways need a guru, a living guru which showers our soul with the transcendental sound. It should not be BV Narayana Gosvami Maharaja, and it should not be from Gaudya Vedanta Samiti, but it should be a sad rasika gura. 7. Unfortunely not everybody can readily achieve this type of association, but to the given time when the sukriti will grow enough, it will be. Guest: "Animals don't spend their mental energy preaching BOGUS IDEAS, so I think you will attain a higher birth in your next life if you can be a frog or fish in the Ganga at Navadwipa." Is this "trnad api sunicena"? no, against bogus ideas, there is no room for trinad api sunicena. I love you falks! Gaurangaa!

rasa is manifested in a relation. between vishaya the object of love and ashraya the container of love In Caitanya lila 1. The OBJECT OF LOVE is Brajendra Nadana Sri Krsna, but NOT MANIFESTED and in this connection Sri points on Srimati Radhika, because Srimati Radhika is mula shakti tattva and only in Dwaraka or vaikuntha is Radhika as Lakshmi . 2. The CONTAINER OF LOVE is Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna and His inner most desire is to meet Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna which is NOT MANIFESTED 3. So Krsna Himself is SEPARATED from the object of His love, which is Brajendra Nadana Sri Krsna. 4. And now He is in the same desperate position as of Srimati Radhika, when she was left in Vraja by that Krsna who promised to come back the day after tomorrow. So Krsna wanted to taste His sweetness. But the sweetest of all sweetness is the sweetness of separation (vipralambha) And so Krsna wanted to taste what Radhika tastes in separation of Him. And Srimati Radhika gave Him Her mood, to taste that maha-bhava in separation that she alone tastes. This Krsna is called Caitanya and very magnanimous (audarya svarupa). I) Srimati Radhika is NEVER in madhurya rasa with any sakhis or manjaris. II) How could be a sadhaka or nitya parikara of the Lord in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) with Krsna as Caitanya, when He has the mood of Srimati Radhika? From this point of view the pretending of gaura nagari of being in MADHURYA RASA with krsna as caitanya is a concoction of the mind and obviously apasiddhanta. And because their philosophy is based on this fact They are an apasampradaya. Of course Gaura lila is eternal, Krsna would be not the Supreme Enjoyer if He would have not find a way of being drawn in the sweetest mood of mohana, divyonmada and udghurna that Srimati Radhika tastes in vipralambha unanntojjvala rasa. And He came (very magnanimous) to teach us how to attain this very unanntojjvala prema the highest mood that the gopis taste in separation of Him. This explain Sri Rupa Gosvami, who understood His innermost desire. I don't know why but my feelings for you are not disturbed.

1. Krsna came to learn the prema of Radha as Caitanya 2. He was assisted by the sakhis that came as sakhas He was assisted by Radha Herself as Gadhadara 3. To taste the prema of Radha, Krsna BECAME Radha in His MOOD 4.. the sakhis are not in madhurya rasa with Radha the sakhis serve radha 5. ergo all the sakhis (that became sakhas) cannot be in conjugal love (madhurya rasa) with Krsna when He is in the MOOD of Radha. 6. and krsna came, with the purpose to be in the MOOD of Radha 7. ergo the nadiya nagari bhava should be in the mood of servitude but they pretend of being in madhurya rasa with Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Krsna in the MOOD of Radha) CONCLUSIONS Nadiya nagari is not in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami, So is not our line of Gaudya Math. So, SB Svami Maharaja, who belongs to our Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, the only Math that use to award Bhaktivedanta title is an omniscient person, and he is RIGHT. SB Narayana Gosvami who was a junior friend of SB Svami Maharaja in the line of Rupa Gosvami also told me that in Gaura lila there is only the mood of servitude. I read the article, it is impressive, Jiva prabhu is a good lawyer. All my love for you dear raga. I am biased, being in a sampradaya means being biased.

Raga prabhu please accept my dandavat, and my lovingly feelings. YOUR OBJECTION "let us try to refrain from presenting wrong conclusions about both siddhanta and other traditions" REFUTATION The words that I published are the words of SB Swami Prabhupada. "According to them, the system of nadiya-nagari, which they recently invented in their fertile brains, is the worship of Gaura, Lord Caitanya, but they do not like to worship Radha and Krsna." They put forward the argument that since Lord Caitanya Himself appeared as Radha and Krsna combined, there is no necessity of worshiping Radha and Krsna." They are not MY words. 1. Do I have a wrong translation of the CC Adi lila? 2. Nadiya-nagari are not the gaura nagari? 3. SB Swami Prabhupada was wrong. 4. If you think, you are right, maybe You can reconcile YOUR statement and the statement of SB Swami Prabhupada. Anyway I will try to read the article, which is 57 pages long. Everything happens by the mercy of Lord Krsna. Radhe, Radhe! Govinda! Gouranga!Nityananda! My heart is full of joy!

First who is Sri Krsna Caitanya? Sri Krsna Caitanya is Krsna, Krsna Himself, who has stolen the moods of Srimati Radhika. You didn't read Prema Vivarta by Jagadananda Pandita. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura used to read it and weep bitterly. My Gurudeva read it and explained us some of the wonderful pastimes there; as Sri Jagadananda threatened Mahaprabhu that will tell everybody that He is a thief. because Mahaprabhu would tease Jagadananda and tell him that he is like a queen in Dwaraka. Jagadananda said: I am a maidservant of Srimati Radhika and I will tell everybody that you've stolen the golden complexion and the mood of my Mistress. My Gurudeva says that truly Krsna didn't steal anything but Srimati Radhika inspired Krsna to take Her mood, that He cannot taste. Krsna says I don't know the strength of Radha's love with which She always overwhelms me. CC Adi-lila 4.123 The love of Radhika is My teacher, and I am Her dancing pupil. Her prema makes Me dance various novel dances CC Adi-lila 4.124 Thinking in this way, Lord Krsna was curios to taste that love. His eager desire for that love increasingly blazed in His heart CC Adi 4.136 Lord Krsna's own beauty attracts Lord Krsna Himself. But because He cannot fully enjoy it, His mind remains full of sorrow CC Adi 4.158 Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaha says And so He was sent by His Guru (Srimati Radhika) to the school of Her Sakhis LALITA as SVARUPA DAMODARA and Vishaka as Ramananda Raya and Srimati Radhika came Herself as Gadhadara Pandita to look if Krsna is a good pupil. This conclusion of the rasa is extremely deep, Only SVARUPA DAMODARA knows much about it. CC Adi 4.160 Lalita Sakhi as Svarupa Damodara guided Sri Krisna as Caitanya in the moods Of Srimati Radhika Sri Krsna (Sri is Radhika) come and show some of their pastimes in prakrita Vrindavan. But who could understand , who could understand the glories of the parakiya rasa, the glories of the love of the gopis? O Arjuna, there are no greater receptacles of deep love for Me, than the gopis, who cleanse and decorate their bodies because they consider them Mine. CC Adi 4.184 Spoken By Sri Krsna in Adi Purana.

In the same purport to CC Adi-lila 5.232 SB Swami Prabhupada says "According to them, the system of nadiya-nagari, which they recently invented in their fertile brains, is the worship of Gaura, Lord Caitanya, but they do not like to worship Radha and Krsna." AS KAILASA PRABHU said THE MAIN PURPOSE IS NOT KRSNA LILA (sorry for corrections). "They put forward the argument that since Lord Caitanya Himself appeared as Radha and Krsna combined, there is no necessity of worshiping Radha and Krsna." Kailasa Prabhu put also forward very boldly some concoctions of his mind with no logic and against siddhanta Although this page is very magnanimous (audarya) we should rather ask questions than to spread wrong siddhanta. I have nothing personally against Kailasa Prabhu, and I ask for his forgivness for any inconvenience. But I love you raga.

OJECTION of kailasa prabhu Lord Caitanya is accessible certainly through vani - gaura vani. Therefore SP does not emphasize Krisna lila, because MAIN THE PURPOSE IS NOT KRSNA LILA, though Krisna lila is described. REFUTATION Oh, VERY dangerous nadiya -nagari APASIDDHANTA that SB Swami Prabhupada himself denounced in the purport of CC Adi-lila 5.232: "Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, the author of Caitanya-caritamrta, predicts in verses 225 and 226 that in the future those who manufacture imaginary methods of worship will gradually give up the worship of Radha-Krsna, And although they will call themselves devotees of Lord Caitanya, they will also give up the worship of Caitany Mahaprabhu and fall down into material activities. For the real worshipers of Lord Caitanya, the ULTIMATE GOAL OF LIFE IS TO WORSHIP Sri Sri Radha and Krsna."

The doubt about the guru and the transcendental sound. Srila Jiva Gosvami says in Bhakti sandarbha (anuccheda 237) Yo mantra sa guruh sakshat Yo guru sa harih svayam Gurur yasya bhavet tushtas Tasya tushto harir svayam The mantra is itself the guru The guru is directly svayam hari He upon whom guru is pleased Also obtains the pleasure of svayam hari What is the meaning? Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana says "The guru's spiritual mood of service THE INTERNAL MOOD OF SERVICE to Sri Radhika and Krsna is conveyed to the disciple through the medium of MANTRA." The internal mood of service is transcendental, why? Because bhakti is a function of the svarupa shakti not of the material senses. And to convey the transcendental (bhakti) you need the transcendental carrier which is the transcendental sound MANTRA, which can be vibrated by the transcendental person. Who is the transcendental person? The sad rasika guru, The one that relishes rasa in his heart. Everything is given in seed from within the mantra. Go to guru, take the seed! And sadhu? Sadhu-sanga? Oh, yes water the seed!

I don't know but is not only the english that is hard to be understood. But even the logic of the text is veery hard to follow. I don't want to criticize Kailasa Prabhu, it is only that I am not so proficient to understand him. May he forgive me for any inconvenience.

Objections of Kailasa Prabhu 1. Therefore no understand the message Lord Caitanya ( gaura vani ) His arguments: "In the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika, verses 147 through 153, it is stated: The pleasure potency of Sri Krisna formerly known as Vrndavanesvari is now personified in the form of Sri Gadadhara Pandita in the pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has pointed out that in the shape of Laksmi, the pleasure potency of Krisna, she was formerly very dear to the Lord as Syamasundara-vallabha. The same Syamasundara-vallabha is now present as Gadadhara Pandita. Formerly, as Lalita-sakhi, she was always devoted to Srimati Radharani. " Internal energy Sri Gadadhara Pandita Is simultaneously shown: - Radharani for Lord Caitanya as Krisna - Lalita-sakhi for Lord Caitanya as Radharani - Laksmi for Lord Caitanya as Lord Narayana Thus Sri Gadadhara Pandita has all kinds of internal energy. -At Vaikuntha level Lord Caitanya is Lord Narayana -For devotee Krisna lila He devotee ( Sri Caitanya, Nityananda, Advaita, Gadadhara, Srivasa , altar Radha-Krisna-Sri Caitanya -For devotee Sri Caitanya He Radha directly. Therefore devotee Vaikuntha and Krisna lila understand Him as Lord Narayana and devotee Krisna. They worship Radha-Krisna basically. vande bhakti-vinodam sri-gaura-sakti-svarupakam bhakti-sastrajna-camprajam radha-rasa-sudhi-nidhim sri-gaura-sakti - Laksmi Radharani radha-rasa-sudhi-nidhim - Lalita-sakhi, Radharani This infinite power Vaikuntha, carrying in itself internal energy. Therefore no understand the message Lord Caitanya ( gaura vani ) REFUTATION Kailasa Prabhu said nothing about gaura vani (Message of Gaura) But Srila Rupa Gosvami says in Sri Vidagdha Madhava Anarpita carim cirat karunaya avatirnah kalau Samarpaytum unantojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam Harih purata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba sandipitah Sada hrdaya kandare spuratu vah saci-nandana May that Lord, who is known as the son of Srimati Sacidevi Be transcendentally situated in the innermost chamber of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the age of Kali by His causeless mercy To bestow what no avatara EVER offered BEFORE Manjari-bhava The service of Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservant.(unantojjvala rasa) Speaking at the disappearance day of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja says: He wanted to very clearly give the path of RUPANUGA (manjari-bhava), but he first had to cut down the jungles of mayavada and atheism. Because he wanted to give this path, he requested me to help them. He could have given it then, but they were not ready at that time. He told me to help them so that they could become strong in bhakti; more strong than iron; as strong as thunderbolts. You should therefore preach your Prabhupada's real mission, Rupa Gosvami's mission, everywhere. Only those who have had a high class of sadhu-sanga can realize his mission and his glories. Only a maha-bhagavata can understand another maha-bhagavata. You cannot realize this. You have heard from Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that Vamsidasa Babaji was a paramahamsa. Unless you heard it from Srila Sarasvati Thakura, how could you have understood? [Vamsidasa Babaji would, for example, keep fish bones in front of his hut, and sometimes he wouldn't dress his Deities. On other occasions he wouldn't follow Ekadasi, and sometimes he would offer tea and coffee to his Thakurji.] Prapujacarana Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja has also said about your Prabhupada that his power came from Sri Nityananda Prabhu, and therefore he is a saktyavesa-avatara. Who can realize this? Only one who is following him in the real sense. I used to see him when he was singing Sad Gosvami-astakam and Gauranga Bolite Habe. He used to sing in a pathetic tune (filled with feelings of separation and longing for Krsna), with his voice choked up and tears in his eyes. CONCLUSION 1.What is GAURA VANI ? to give what no avatara has ever given: manjari bhava in unantojjvala rasa 2.Who understood the message of Gaura and was able to establish His mission to give manjari bhava in unantojjvala rasa? Srila Rupa Gosvami! Who is a true rupanuga? One who can give manjari bhava in unantojjvala rasa.

OBJECTION TO **Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja who is always present with the sakhis, planning the arrangements for the perfection of yugala-kisora's amorous pastime, serves also under the guidance (anu-gatya) of a sakhi who creates varieties of delightful fun (vinoda) for the divine Youthful Couple.** THE OBJECTION FROM KAYLASA PRABHU He is sakhya rasa in Krisna lila. REFUTATION 1. In Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami vandana it is stated Namaste sarasvate deve gaura vani pracarine Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message (vani) of Gaurasundara. Oh, what is the message of Gaura? In Sriman Mahaprabhu vijnapti from Sri Vidagdha Madhava of Srila Rupa Gosvami it is said Anarpita carim cirat karunaya avatirnah kalau Samarpaytum unantojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam Harih purata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba sandipitah Sada hrdaya kandare spuratu vah saci-nandana May that Lord, who is known as the son of Srimati Sacidevi Be transcendentally situated in the innermost chamber of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the age of Kali by His causeless mercy To bestow what no avatara ever offered before Manjari-bhava The service of Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservant.(unantojjvala rasa) That was the mood of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Praphupada. He wanted to give that message of Sriman Mahaprabhu, but His disciples were not qualified in a short time to understand this confidential topic, But if you read Caitanya Caritamrita, you will see Everything is there. 2. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami is a Rupa-anuga , That means a follower of Srila Rupa Gosvam, a follower of his teachings. And what were his teachings ? We can see it in Srila Rupa Gosvami vandana Sri caitanya mano bhishtam stapitam yena bhutale Svayam rupah dada mahyam dadati sva-padantikam written by Srila Narotama dasa Thakura in Sri Prema bhakti candrika where he says: When will Sri Rupa Gosvami give me the shelter of his lotus feet? Because he understood the innermost desire (mano bhishtam) of Sri Caitanya He was able to establish His mission in this world and is very dear to the Lord. What was His innermost desire? Oh, to taste the moods of Srimati Radhika and Atyanta durlabha prema koribare dana Shikahaya saranagati bhakatera prana to bestow freely the rarest treasure or prema He taught saranagati the life and soul of the devotees. The devotee that really is in the rupa-anuga line, who is a follower of Rupa Gosvami, who in Krsna lila is Rupa Manjari, that devotee must be a follower of the maidservant moods of manjaris. 3. In this connection Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada insisted very much that his disciples would sing every morning Gurvastakam by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and there, in the sixth sloka it is said: Sri Gurudeva is ALWAYS present with the sakhis, Planning arrangements for the perfection of yugala-kisora's amorous pastimes (rati-keli) within the kunjas of Vrindavana. This is the sad guru in our brahma-madva-gaudya sampradaya, in the line of Rupa Gosvami. 4. Learn the Prabhupada Vandana (the pranama mantras von Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura) You will find there much enlightenement.

Khona bhagye karo samsara KSHAYON-MUKHA haye Sadhu-sange tabe krsna rati upajaya CC Madhya 22.45 When the wandering in samsara begin to dimnish Jiva obtains sadhu-sanga By the causeless mercy of bhagavan By that sadhu-sanga jiva obtains rati rati means bhava (the sprout of prema) "sa bhakti SADHANA bhaktir BHAVA bhakti PREMA bhakti iti trividha sadahna bhakti punar VAIDHI RAGA-ANUGA bhedena dvividha" Here sa bhakti means pure bhakti Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Jaiva Dharma "When Krsna wills it the sadhaka's relationship with the material world tends toward its termination. This stage that avent liberation is khown as KSHAYON-MUKHA 1.svarupa sddhi - jiva is situated in his svarupa (spiritual body) - but because the material body remains - the relationship with the material world remains intact. 2. vastu-siddhi - when jiva give up the gross and subtle bodies - and attains the spiritual abode in his siddha-deha When one attains vastu-siddhi Raga-atmika vriti is awakened In his svarupa - spiritual body In his vastu - constitutional state Raga-atmika means The atma is permeated with raga (spontaneous attachement and love) Raga-atmika prakriti Is the nature of the eternal residents of Vraja To follow the way of raga (RAGA-ANUGA) Should be ardently sought by the jivas As long as jiva is not In the RAGA-ANUGA stage He remains SPONTANEOUSLY attached to mundane objects. Raga-anuga is the nature that impels one to follow the soul's spontaneous attraction toward the Lord.

**This is our line of bhagavat-gurus, or sad-gurus. In Sri Guru-rupa Sakhi-pranama it is said** REFLECTION OF KAILASA PRABHU Kanistha adhicari not know many details. SP come take you understanding Goswamis. AGREEMENT WITH THE REFLECTION If YOU have an open heart YOU can understand something, read carefully. >>As known Sri Nityaanada Prabhu is the form of the Servitor-God and He is the akanda guru-tattva, the origin of the guru principle which is the mood of service. So how comes that our gurus are manjaris or sakhis of Srimati Radhika? Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada who Himself is a manjari, who is ALWAYS with the other sakhis in the spiritual Vrindavan, wrote "Sri Nityananda Prabhu does not directly instruct In the confidential service of Brajendra nandana Sri Krsna. Srimati Radhika is the guru of the inner circle of servants of krsna. However Srimati Radhika accepts the service of only those who are favoured by Sri Nityaananda and are deemed by Him to be fit for Her service. ... ...the conditioned soul may be tempted to undervalue the constant guidance of the guru on the hypocritical idea of following in the footsteps of the eternally free devotees. Therefore those that suppose that Deliverance from the bondage of this world should be practicable without the constant guidance of the sad-guru confound the conditioned state with the free." << To be a kanishta is not a shame. I look at my pointing finger. And there are different types of kanishta.

[s.B. Narayana Maharaja:] Citsukananda (one of Srila Prabhupada's senior-most preacher disciples and one of Prabhupada's first disciples to preach and make devotees in Spanish-speaking countries) reminded me that he was present at the time Srila Swami Maharaja left this world in 1977, and that he had assisted me that day. He had escorted me to Srila Swami Maharaja's bedside that day. Among hearing many other requests of your Prabhupada, Citsukananda heard him say, "You should help all my devotees. I have brought them, but because of their lack of qualification I could not fully train them." He also heard him tell me, "With your own hand, you should give me Samadhi." Citsukananda told me that this is why he is so inspired to assist me now. [brajanatha dasa:] Citsukananda prabhu was instrumental in Srila Maharaja's visit to the Mexico City ISKCON temple, although the ISKCON leaders tried at all costs to ensure that the visit would not take place. The devotees there were very wonderful, and they invited all of us to accompany them on Nagara-sankirtana through the very park in which Srila Prabhupada used to walk in the mornings. Then, at the end of nagara-sankirtana, Citsukananda prabhu, present on behalf of ISKCON, announced, "I don't care if they kick me out of ISKCON. Srila Narayana Maharaja must come to the Mexico City temple." Sure enough, that afternoon we all accompanied Srila Maharaja to the temple, and we assembled in the room that Srila Prabhupada had previously used as his quarters. Citsukananda prabhu spoke a few words, and then Srila Maharaja spoke of the wonderful history of how Srila Prabhupada had requested him to help, and how he had placed Srila Prabhupada's transcendental body in Samadhi. Expressing his appreciation, Citsukananda said, "If it wasn't for Srila Narayana Maharaja we would have no father. Prabhupada is our father, and it was Srila Narayana Maharaja who was the main inspiration of him taking sannyasa. Of course, Srila Prabhupada was sent by Krsna from the spiritual world to help all the souls that he helped, but Srila Maharaja was Krsna's instrument in Srila Prabhupada accepting sannyasa from Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja (the diksa guru of Srila Narayana Maharaja). If it were not for him, we would not have that transcendental relationship. " Then, addressing Srila Maharaja directly he said, "Without you, we would be fatherless. We are so appreciative of you and we want to help in all ways."

OBJECTION TO This is our line of bhagavat-gurus, or sad-gurus. In Sri Guru-rupa Sakhi-pranama it is said: radha-sanmukha-samsaktim sakhi-sanga-nivasinim tam aham satatam vande guru-ruupam param sakhim I forever worship my guru , who in his form as an exalted sakhi is happily immersed In the company of Srimati Radhika and the other sakhis. Only these gurus can give diksa and sannyasa mantra, which is gopi mantra and can give confidential bhajana shiksa. OBJECTION IN THE FORM In lils Sri Caitanya all rasas become mathurya rasa. REFUTATION 1. The objection in itself shows a massive lack of knowledge of sidhanta. In Caitanya lila there is no madhurya rasa, Sri Caitanya is with none of His associates in madhurya rasa but in sakhya rasa. Or maybe the notion rasa is not known. 2. The objection has no relation to the quoted passage. "In the BHAGAVAT PARAMPARA of our rupa-anuga sampradaya all the gurus are manjaris or sakhis of Srimati Radhika." The explanation was given by Srila Bhaktivedanta Sarasvati Thakura in an article from the Harmonist Magazine and quoted in the Preface of the recent translation of Nitya-ananda Caritamrita from Vrindavana Dasa Thakura. The translation was done by elevated disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada. As known Sri Nityaanada Prabhu is the form of the Servitor-God and He is the akanda guru-tattva, the origin of the guru principle which is the mood of service. So how comes that our gurus are manjaris or sakhis of Srimati Radhika? Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada who Himself is a manjari, who is ALWAYS with the other sakhis in the spiritual Vrindavan, wrote "Sri Nityananda Prabhu does not directly instruct In the confidential service of Brajendra nandana Sri Krsna. Srimati Radhika is the guru of the inner circle of servants of krsna. However Srimati Radhika accepts the service of only those who are favoured by Sri Nityaananda and are deemed by Him to be fit for Her service. ... ...the conditioned soul may be tempted to undervalue the constant guidance of the guru on the hypocritical idea of following in the footsteps of the eternally free devotees. Therefore those that suppose that Deliverance from the bondage of this world should be practicable without the constant guidance of the sad-guru confound the conditioned state with the free."

**What is the speciality of our brahma-MADHVA-gaudya sampradaya?** OBJECTION madhva means with out greetnes God discription lils it is discription illicit lovers ( NBS ) Gaudiya means me follow mood Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. REFUTATION Srila Bhaktisidhanta Thakura Prabhupada composed a Song that maybe should also be sung in that Institution you belong too. I sing it every morning. The name of the Song is Sri Guru Parampara The first sloka: krsna hoite catur mukha, hoy krsna-sevonmukha brahma hoite naradera mati narada hoite vyasa, MADHVA kohe vyasa-dasa purnaprajna padmanaba gati "In the beginning of creation Sri Krsna spoke the science of devotional service to four-faced Lord Brahma, who in turn passed these teachings on to Narada Muni who accepted Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasadeva as his disciple. Vyasa transmitted this knowledge to MADHVA-Acaraya, who is also known as Purnaprajna Tirtha and who was the sole refuge for his disciple Padmanabha Tirtha." This is to be shown that we belong to the line of Madhva-Acarya who Himself belong to Brahma sampradaya. To His time Sri Baladeva Vidyabhushana, who wrote Vedanta Bashya, the commentary on the Vedanta Sutra, to give a strong legitimacy to our sampradaya, and was an intimate disciple of Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, proved in his writings that we belong to the brahma-madva line. To make speculation on this subject shows once again that using only the logic ,words jugglery and lacking proper guidance one is prone to develop dangerous apasidhanta. a kanishta devotee, which himself is a very elevated personality, has not so much knowledge on the revealed truth of the scriptures, and he uses arguments based on the material logic.

**The atempt to minimize the sannyasa guru ** Objection: Sri Caitanya take sannyas from ...? Refutation: Srila Rupa Gosvami says that a kanishta devotee, which in himself is a very elevated personality, has not so much knowledge on the revealed truth of the scriptures, therefore he ask submissively questions based on the dynamic logic of contradictory. Externally Keshava Bharati, the sannyasa guru of Sri-Caitanya jagat-guru gaura mahaprabhu was a mayavada sannyasa but in truth He is a an eternal associate of mahaprabhu sri-caitanya, radha-krsna nahe anya. And the example for that relation is not appropriate for the relation existing between Srila Bhakti Prajnan Keshava Gosvami and Jagat-guru maha-purusha Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami. The relation between the two maha-bhagavatas is the reflection of their spiritual relation of anu-gatya in apakrita Vrindavana. Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja who is always present with the sakhis, planning the arrangements for the perfection of yugala-kisora's amorous pastime, serves also under the guidance (anu-gatya) of a sakhi who creates varieties of delightful fun (vinoda) for the divine Youthful Couple. That Vinoda Manjari is Srila Bhakti Prajnan Keshava Gosvami. More information in the Book ACARYA KESARI SRI SRIMAD BHAKTI PRAJNANA KESAVA GOSVAMI As Srila Bhakti Prajnan Keshava Gosvami was asked if His Gurudeva revealed the internal identity (siddha-svarupa) of any of his own disciples, he solemnly said: Srila Bhaktisidhanta Thakura Prabhupada has given the identity of the siddha-deha and Shiksa in bhajana-pranali to some of his qualified disciples; otherwise the Sri Rupanuga Line would come to an end. He also mercifully gave this pranali to me. By the mercy of Gurudeva, Savita didi and Vicitra didi I was disclosed the real name of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja, which I am not entitled to say it here.

I had the wonderful oportunity to hear for two days (the 19-th and 20-th of Sept.2002) from the lotus mouth of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana in Viena (Austria). From there He went today the 21.09.02 to Odessa (Ukrain). For more information http://gaudiya.net/index.htm