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This subject is extremely deep. Without the mercy of Sri Gurudeva or pure rasika devotees, the sAdhaka cannot conceive of his siddha-deha (perfected spiritual body). Therefore the contemplation of one’s nitya-siddha-deha arises of its own accord only by the merciful indication of Sri Gurudeva . By continual remembrance of aSTa-kAlIya-lIlA(the pastimes of KRSNa performed in eight divisions of the day), performed internally ( mAnasI-sevA) with the nitya-siddha-deha, one obtains svarUpa-siddhi (perception of one’s eternal perfected form, which occurs at the stage of bhAva-bhakti) and ultimately vastu-siddhi. Vastu-siddhi is attained after giving up this body and taking birth in KRSNa’s bhauma-lIlA from the womb of a gopI. (After attaining that last body, and) After attaining the association of KRSNa’s eternal associates and being purified of all final traces of material identification, when prema is intensified, one attains vastu-siddhi. (and that body becomes totally spiritualized, this is the meaning in Srimad Bhagavatam when it is said that the sadhana siddha gopis gave up their (material) bodies, they don't die. One does not die, which is most inauspicious, at the most auspicious festival of Vraja raja Sri kRSNa. When they were called by the venunAda to the most auspicious festival of all the worlds, they gave up the last attachements to external dharma, and by that their bodies became totally spiritualized, and in that body they can perform the most auspicious rasa dance.) (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, with added commentary from Srila Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja)
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
This subject is extremely deep. Without the mercy of Sri Gurudeva or pure rasika devotees, the sAdhaka cannot conceive of his siddha-deha (perfected spiritual body). Therefore the contemplation of one’s nitya-siddha-deha arises of its own accord only by the merciful indication of Sri Gurudeva . By continual remembrance of aSTa-kAlIya-lIlA(the pastimes of KRSNa performed in eight divisions of the day), performed internally ( mAnasI-sevA) with the nitya-siddha-deha, one obtains svarUpa-siddhi (perception of one’s eternal perfected form, which occurs at the stage of bhAva-bhakti) and ultimately vastu-siddhi. Vastu-siddhi is attained after giving up this body and taking birth in KRSNa’s bhauma-lIlA from the womb of a gopI. (After attaining that last body, and) After attaining the association of KRSNa’s eternal associates and being purified of all final traces of material identification, when prema is intensified, one attains vastu-siddhi. (and that body becomes totally spiritualized, this is the meaning in Srimad Bhagavatam when it is said that the sadhana siddha gopis gave up their (material) bodies, they don't die. One does not die, which is most inauspicious, at the most auspicious festival of Vraja raja Sri kRSNa. When they were called by the venunAda to the most auspicious festival of all the worlds, they gave up the last attachements to external dharma, and by that their bodies became totally spiritualized, and in that body they can perform the most auspicious rasa dance.) (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, with added commentary from Srila Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja) -
Look at this meeting in Canada. They do not know even now what SBV Svami Prabhupada wanted. Do not think that you know what he wanted. Don't be to much external. SBV Svami Prabhupada said that his mission is successful if he can make one person to be kRSNa conscious, namely to make a pure devotee. A pure devotee can be understood only by a pure devotee, which is of the same heart , suhRd. Don't be to much external.
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Look at this meeting in Canada. They do not know even now what SBV Svami Prabhupada wanted. Do not think that you know what he wanted. Don't be to much external. SBV Svami Prabhupada said that his mission is successful if he can make one person to be kRSNa conscious, namely to make a pure devotee. A pure devotee can be understood only by a pure devotee, which is of the same heart , suhRd. Don't be to much external.
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Sri Rupa Gosvami, who is an eternal associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, serves Sri Radha-KRSNa as Sri Rupa Manjari in kRSNa lila. Sri Rupa Manjari, appearing as Srila Rupa Gosvami with the attitude of a sadhaka, weeps again and again and prays anxiously to obtain the service of Sri Yugala. Sometimes, while praying in this way, he would become so deeply immersed in the emotional trance of Rupa Manjari that he would taste the happiness of direct service. Therefore raganuga-sadhakas must certainly follow Sri Rupa-Sanatana and other gosvamis. Opposed to this are those who vainly consider themselves as rasika-sadhakas but who do not adopt the limbs of bhakti, such as guru-padaSraya and ekadaSi vrata. They can never obtain the service of Sri Yugala. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja)
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
Sri Rupa Gosvami, who is an eternal associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, serves Sri Radha-KRSNa as Sri Rupa Manjari in kRSNa lila. Sri Rupa Manjari, appearing as Srila Rupa Gosvami with the attitude of a sadhaka, weeps again and again and prays anxiously to obtain the service of Sri Yugala. Sometimes, while praying in this way, he would become so deeply immersed in the emotional trance of Rupa Manjari that he would taste the happiness of direct service. Therefore raganuga-sadhakas must certainly follow Sri Rupa-Sanatana and other gosvamis. Opposed to this are those who vainly consider themselves as rasika-sadhakas but who do not adopt the limbs of bhakti, such as guru-padaSraya and ekadaSi vrata. They can never obtain the service of Sri Yugala. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja) -
In his book Prarthana (13) Srila Narottama Thakura has similarly written: gaura-prema rasarNave se taraNge yeba Dube se radha-madhava-antaraNga Gaura-prema is an ocean of rasa. Those who submerge themselves in the waves of that ocean emerge in the waves of the confidential and intimate service of Radha-Madhava. Srila Kaviraja Gosvami and Srila Narottama Thakura have composed the above verses for the benefit of raganuga-sadhakas. Therefore raganuga-sadhakas should taste kRSNa-lila through the medium of gaura-lila. Consequently, it is essential for sadhakas to remember gaura-lila and to follow the eternal associates of Sri Caitanya. Since it is necessary to follow the gaura-parikaras, it is certainly imperative that one observe the limbs of bhakti ( gurupadaSraya, ekadaSi-vrata, tulasi-seva, Sri Salagrama-seva and so on) that were practised by the foremost associates such as Srila Rupa Gosvami and others. There is no doubt about this. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja)
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
In his book Prarthana (13) Srila Narottama Thakura has similarly written: gaura-prema rasarNave se taraNge yeba Dube se radha-madhava-antaraNga Gaura-prema is an ocean of rasa. Those who submerge themselves in the waves of that ocean emerge in the waves of the confidential and intimate service of Radha-Madhava. Srila Kaviraja Gosvami and Srila Narottama Thakura have composed the above verses for the benefit of raganuga-sadhakas. Therefore raganuga-sadhakas should taste kRSNa-lila through the medium of gaura-lila. Consequently, it is essential for sadhakas to remember gaura-lila and to follow the eternal associates of Sri Caitanya. Since it is necessary to follow the gaura-parikaras, it is certainly imperative that one observe the limbs of bhakti ( gurupadaSraya, ekadaSi-vrata, tulasi-seva, Sri Salagrama-seva and so on) that were practised by the foremost associates such as Srila Rupa Gosvami and others. There is no doubt about this. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja) -
Is Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada your Sravana guru or your zikSa guru or maybe your dikSa guru your param guru or your param param guru? What do you know about the GbC Prabhupadanuga doctrine isued 1996-1997, as I was fed up with, without to know what was behind? From this basic doctrine emerged many more that are against bhakti: one does not need a guru, one does not need dikSa, bhakti dependes only on the mercy of Krsna, you should make pancakes, and bhakti will come... So that noone should know waht is bhakti, the sadhana and the sadya. Negative utopia, like in the comunist countries: One can fool all for some time, one can fool some people all the time, but one cannot fool all the people all the time.
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Is Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada your Sravana guru or your zikSa guru or maybe your dikSa guru your param guru or your param param guru? What do you know about the GbC Prabhupadanuga doctrine isued 1996-1997, as I was fed up with, without to know what was behind? From this basic doctrine emerged many more that are against bhakti: one does not need a guru, one does not need dikSa, bhakti dependes only on the mercy of Krsna, you should make pancakes, and bhakti will come... So that noone should know waht is bhakti, the sadhana and the sadya. Negative utopia, like in the comunist countries: One can fool all for some time, one can fool some people all the time, but one cannot fool all the people all the time.
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According to the conclusion of the Six Gosvamis, Srila Kaviraja Gosvami and other rasika VaiSNava acaryas, the lila-rasa of Vrajendra-nandana Sri kRSNa is the object to be tasted by raganuga-sadhakas. But it is not possible to taste the lila-rasa of Sri KRSNa without entering into Sri gaura-lila. In other words only through the medium of gaura-lila is it possible to taste the lila-rasa of Sri KRSNa. In Cri Caitanya-caritamRta( Madhya-lila25.271, 274) Srila Kaviraja Gosvami has stated this as follows: kRSNa-lila amRta-sara, tara cata cata dhara daca-dike vahe yaha haite se caitanya-lila haya, sarovara akSaya mano-haMsa caraha’ tahate The pastimes of Sri KRSNa are the essence of all transcendental nectar. These nectarean pastimes flow in hundreds and hundreds of streams, inundating the ten directions. The pastimes of Sri Caitanya are an imperishable reservoir of nectar, saturated with the pastimes of KRSNa. O swanlike mind, please wander on this transcendental lake. nana-bhavera bhakta-jana, haMsa-cakravaka-gaNa yate sabe’ karena vihara kRSNa-keli sumRNala, yaha pai sarva-kala bhakta-haMsa karaye ahara The devotees situated in various transcendental moods are like swans and cakravaka birds who play upon the transcendental lake of KRSNa’s pastimes. The sweet bulbs of the stalks of lotus flowers are the sportive amorous pastimes of Sri KRSNa. Cri KRSNa eternally enacts such pastimes and, consequently, they are the foodstuff for the swanlike devotees who have taken shelter of Sri Gaurasundara, who is the eternal embodiment of vipralambha-rasa and identical in form to Sri KRSNa, the eternal embodiment of sambhoga-rasa. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja)
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
According to the conclusion of the Six Gosvamis, Srila Kaviraja Gosvami and other rasika VaiSNava acaryas, the lila-rasa of Vrajendra-nandana Sri kRSNa is the object to be tasted by raganuga-sadhakas. But it is not possible to taste the lila-rasa of Sri KRSNa without entering into Sri gaura-lila. In other words only through the medium of gaura-lila is it possible to taste the lila-rasa of Sri KRSNa. In Cri Caitanya-caritamRta( Madhya-lila25.271, 274) Srila Kaviraja Gosvami has stated this as follows: kRSNa-lila amRta-sara, tara cata cata dhara daca-dike vahe yaha haite se caitanya-lila haya, sarovara akSaya mano-haMsa caraha’ tahate The pastimes of Sri KRSNa are the essence of all transcendental nectar. These nectarean pastimes flow in hundreds and hundreds of streams, inundating the ten directions. The pastimes of Sri Caitanya are an imperishable reservoir of nectar, saturated with the pastimes of KRSNa. O swanlike mind, please wander on this transcendental lake. nana-bhavera bhakta-jana, haMsa-cakravaka-gaNa yate sabe’ karena vihara kRSNa-keli sumRNala, yaha pai sarva-kala bhakta-haMsa karaye ahara The devotees situated in various transcendental moods are like swans and cakravaka birds who play upon the transcendental lake of KRSNa’s pastimes. The sweet bulbs of the stalks of lotus flowers are the sportive amorous pastimes of Sri KRSNa. Cri KRSNa eternally enacts such pastimes and, consequently, they are the foodstuff for the swanlike devotees who have taken shelter of Sri Gaurasundara, who is the eternal embodiment of vipralambha-rasa and identical in form to Sri KRSNa, the eternal embodiment of sambhoga-rasa. (commentary from the same book by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja) -
I was talking about my gurudeva om viSnupada paramAhaMsa Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. Thank you for apreciating him. atha raganuga-lakZaNaM nijAbhimata-vraja-rAja-nandanasya sevA prApti-lobhena yadi tAni kriyante tadA rAgAnuga bhaktiH; yad uktam Practicing the angas of bhakti with the intense intense longing to obtain the service of one's innermost desired object of love Krishna in His feature as resident of Vraja, namely the vraja-rAja is called raganunga bhakti. yours respectfully anadi
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
I was talking about my gurudeva om viSnupada paramAhaMsa Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. Thank you for apreciating him. atha raganuga-lakZaNaM nijAbhimata-vraja-rAja-nandanasya sevA prApti-lobhena yadi tAni kriyante tadA rAgAnuga bhaktiH; yad uktam Practicing the angas of bhakti with the intense intense longing to obtain the service of one's innermost desired object of love Krishna in His feature as resident of Vraja, namely the vraja-rAja is called raganunga bhakti. yours respectfully anadi -
If someone raises the objection that the word vraja-loka refers only to Sri Radha, Lalita and others, it would then follow that with the sadhaka-deha (the external body) one should perform bodily services following in their wake. If this indeed were the case, then the followers of those eternal associates would not be required to carry out the limbs of bhakti such as taking shelter of a spiritual master, observance of Ekadaci, worship of Salagrama, worship of tulasi and so on, since it is not mentioned anywhere that Sri Radha and Lalita ever performed such activities. However, this erroneous conclusion ( apasiddhanta) held by sceptics who have taken shelter of modern adverse opinions is actually refuted by the word vrajaloka. In his commentary to this verse of Bhakti-rasamRta-sindhu (1.2.295), Srila Jiva Gosvamipada has explained the same thing; namely, that the word vraja-loka refers to the dearmost associates of Sri kRSNa and their followers such as sri Rupa Gosvami and others. Therefore one should perform internal service ( manasi- seva ) through the medium of the siddha-deha by following inaccordance with Sri Rupa Manjari and other Vrajavasis. With the sadhaka-deha one should perform bodily service by following Sri Rupa Gosvami and others. (same source as above) anadi
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As for your desire to follow the path of the gopis
anadi replied to a topic in Spiritual Discussions
If someone raises the objection that the word vraja-loka refers only to Sri Radha, Lalita and others, it would then follow that with the sadhaka-deha (the external body) one should perform bodily services following in their wake. If this indeed were the case, then the followers of those eternal associates would not be required to carry out the limbs of bhakti such as taking shelter of a spiritual master, observance of Ekadaci, worship of Salagrama, worship of tulasi and so on, since it is not mentioned anywhere that Sri Radha and Lalita ever performed such activities. However, this erroneous conclusion ( apasiddhanta) held by sceptics who have taken shelter of modern adverse opinions is actually refuted by the word vrajaloka. In his commentary to this verse of Bhakti-rasamRta-sindhu (1.2.295), Srila Jiva Gosvamipada has explained the same thing; namely, that the word vraja-loka refers to the dearmost associates of Sri kRSNa and their followers such as sri Rupa Gosvami and others. Therefore one should perform internal service ( manasi- seva ) through the medium of the siddha-deha by following inaccordance with Sri Rupa Manjari and other Vrajavasis. With the sadhaka-deha one should perform bodily service by following Sri Rupa Gosvami and others. (same source as above) anadi -
Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja SRI RADHASTAMI Mathura, India: September 14, 2002 (am) [in the early morning of September 14th, in order to commence the celebration of Sri Radhastami in the opulently decorated Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha in Mathura, Srila Narayana Maharaja requested Krsnadasa Brahmacari to lead the assembled devotes in singing Sri Krsna Virahe by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He then explained some of the verses as follows:] sri krsna-virahe, radhikara dasa, ami to' sahite nari yugala-milana, sukhera karana, jivana chadite pari ["I am absolutely unable to tolerate Sri Radhika's pitiable condition when She is suffering in separation from Sri Krsna, but I am fully prepared to immediately give up my life for the sake of Their happy reunion." (verse 1)] Only under the guidance of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is it possible to render service to Srimati Radhika. In the mood of a maidservant of Srimati Radhika, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written that he cannot tolerate Radhika's condition during the time of Her separation from Krsna. On the other hand, for Their meeting together, he is prepared to easily give up his life. radhka-carana, tyajiya amara, ksaneke pralaya hoya radhikara tare, sata-bara mari, se duhkha amar soya ["If I were ever to renounce Srimati Radhika's lotus feet for even a instant, I would be totally devastated. For Her sake I will gladly tolerate the pain and agony of death hundreds of times." (verse 2)] Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is saying: "I can give up anything. I can even give up Krsna, but I cannot give up the lotus feet of Srimati Radhika for even a moment. For the service of Radhika I am prepared to die hundreds and millions of times, but I would never be able to tolerate giving up Her association for even a second. When will that day come that I can render some service to Her lotus feet? How can I have attachment for this Radhika, and how can I attain the perfect service of Her lotus feet?
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Caitanya Caritamrita Madya lila Chapter 8 Raya Ramananda samvanda Ramanada Raya continued to speak for the pleasure of Mahaprabhu: Srimati Radhika takes Her first bath in the shower of the nectar of compassion, and She takes Her second bath in the nectar of youth. After Her midday bath, Radha takes another bath in the nectar of bodily luster, and She puts on the garment of shyness, which is Her Syama silk sari Radha’s affection for Krishna is Her upper garment, which is pinkish in color. She then covers Her breasts with another garment, composed of affection and anger toward Krishna. Radha’s personal beauty is the reddish powder known as kunkuma, Her affection for Her associates is sandalwood pulp, and the sweetness of Her smile is camphor. All these, combined together, are smeared over Her body.
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[Respected Maharajas, Prabhus and Didis, Dandavat pranama. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. Tomorrow, September 4, 2003, is Sri Radhastami. Two nights ago Srila Narayana Maharaja began giving classes on Her divine tattva (the philosophical truths of Her identity) and mahima (glories). Today, known as the Appearance day of Srimati Lalita-devi he will do the same, and of coursre tomorrow on Her own Appearance Day. Last night in Mathura, Srila Maharaja told his international audience a very interesting explanation of the verse beginning "Sri Radha-krsna pranaya vikrtir..." (Cc Adi 4.55) This verse is generally translated to mean that "the loving affairs of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving opotency...", and this is a fact. Last night Srila Maharaja said we should deeply understand this verse in this way: "Sri Radha" and then colon, comma or dash, meaning that the words coming up is the identity of Srimati Radhiksa, is "pranaya vikrti". She is the transformation of Sri Krsna's pranaya, or love. this is not the pranaya which comes after maan and before raga in the series of the gradual development if the intensity of prema. This pranaya means the highest possible expression of love, that is madanakhya-mahabhava. How is it that She can be a transformation of that pranaya of Sri Krsna? Once, Krsna was alone, standing on the vbank of Jamuna at the Yoga Pitha in Sri Vrndavana dhama. He was desiring to relish that highest love that would astound even Him, and Srimati Radhika simultaneously manifested from His left side, approached Him, and satisfied all His desires. Srila Maharaja then said that if the devotees want to understand both the philosophical truths and the glories or opulences of Sri Radha, they should read Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila chapter 4, and also Sri Raya Ramananda Samvad in Madhya-lila chapter 8.
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Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja THE SECOND STAGE OF BHAKTI (A lecture based on Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Sri Bhajana Rahasya) Birmingham, England - June 16, 2003 We have finished discussing the first yama (stage) of bhajana - sraddha - what it is and how to achieve it. Try to achieve transcendental sraddha, the essence of that first yama. Corresponding to the first yama of bhajana, the first sweet pastimes in Sri Krsna's day are those of nisanta-lila, the last part of the night. Srimati Radharani and Sri Krsna are sleeping and Sri Vrnda-devi fears, "Now it is is going to be dawn." She thus orders all the birds, like Suka, Sari and others, to sweetly sing the glories of Sri Krsna so that He and Srimati Radharani will wake up and return to Their homes. This is the first yama pastime of Sri Krsna, and the first yama pastime of sadhana-bhajana is sraddha. If there is no sraddha, there is no bhajana. Nowadays I see that devotees have so many problems, and because of these problems, they cannot chant regularly. Sometimes they are restless and upset, and thus they give up worshipping Thakurji (the deity), chanting, remembering and reading books. I have come to remind you to not be like that; do not be weak. Your suffering will increase by whatever you are doing to decrease it. So don't be upset, but rather try to chant more and read more. When reading the books of Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, you should think, "He is instructing me." If reading a book of Srila Rupa Gosvami, think that Srila Rupa Gosvami is speaking to you; and if reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, think that Srila Sukadeva Gosvami and Srila Vyasadeva are speaking to you. And always pray to Lord Krsna and Sri Gurudeva to sprinkle their mercy upon you.
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Quote of the Day -- vedAntAH pratipAdayanti mukhato no cet tataH kiM mama manyante bata zAstra-garta-patitA dustarkiNaH kiM tataH | no ced bhAgavatAnubhUti-padavIM yAtas tataH kiM mama svAtmA vajra-sahasra-biddha iva na spandeta vRndAvanAt || The Upanishads never directly mention it, so what? What do I care for those quibblers who have fallen into the deep well of the scriptures? What do I care for those who haven't entered into an understanding of the Bhagavata's secrets? My mind will not be diverted from Vrindavan for an instant, even if you throw a thousand thunderbolts at it!! --- Vrindavana Mahimamrita, 1.6
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To chant you need the inspiration of elevated association [HEAVY WARNING AGAIN] pratyah laksa-nama grahana na karile patita vyaktiganera visaya-bhoga pravrtti vrddhi paya; takhana ara tahara sri gaurasunderarera seva karite pare na. Those who don't accept this vow of chanting 100,000 names daily, they fallen down even more although they were fallen in the first place (due to contamination of Kali-yuga). Thus their propensity for enjoying the senses and sense-objects increases and ultimately they are not able to render any kind of service to Lord Gaurasundera. [Note: Srila Sarasvati has conclusively established here that those who don't chant laksa-nama daily are absolutely sure to fall down even from the service of the merciful Lord Gaurasundera in due course of time. Then what to speak of rendering service to Their Lordships Radha & Krishna]
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Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu’s unique quality is that He is merciful even to the most fallen people, making them eligible for His highest teachings . Such mercy was not bestowed by any other avatAra. Therefore, Srila RUpa GosvAmi has glorified Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu in very meaningful words in his drama, Vidagdha mAdhava (1.2): May Sri Caitanya, who is resplendent with an effulgence more glorious than gold, be ever manifest in the core of our hearts. Out of His causeless mercy, He has appeared in the age of Kali to bestow upon the world the wealth of His own bhakti, the supreme, radiant mellow, ujjvala-rasa, the most confidential mood of service to RAdhA and KRSNa in Their conjugal relationship. This rare gift has not been given for an extremely long time. Human beings who receive this gift can very easily become free forever from the bondage of illusory world, and by great fortune receive kRSNa-prema ( divine pure love for The Most Attractive One ).
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Vishnu Siva and the vaiSnavas:here! http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hinduism&Number=42589&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 jaya rAma jaya RAma jaYa jaya RAma
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Vishnu Siva and the vaiSnavas:here! http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hinduism&Number=42589&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 jaya rAma jaya RAma jaYa jaya RAma