Kripamoya

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Jagat,

 

Are you still working for Tripurari?

 

?

from what I have heard, Tripurari Maharaja consulted with Jagat on siddhanta and Sanskrit terminology in the publishing of some books.

Jagat, which books of Tripurari Maharaja did you help him with?

Tripurari Maharaja apparently looks up to you for confirmation and support of his preaching concepts.

Tripurari Maharaja has become quite open in his older years.

A lot of devotees can never really accept you since you rejected your initiation from Srila Prabhupada to accept siddha-pranali from Lalita Prasad.

Tripurari Maharaja seems to be able to overlook that and put you to work helping him write books for selling in bookstores.

some books are written for preaching, some books are written for capital gain and financial needs.

it's up to the observers to determine which books were published with pure motive and which books were published for money making schemes.

Wow Srila Prabhupada must have really goofed when he advised his followers to go to Narayana Maharaja to learn Vaisnava sadacara or what we call Vaisnava etiquette. Actually in this sense sadacara means much more than what me may commonly think of as etiquette. Sadacara means how to behave as a Vaisnava which is really quite a broad subject and critical to our advancement in Krsna Consciouness.

Please show us the statement from Srila Prabhupada where he instructs his disciples to go to Narayana Maharaja to learn Vaishnava sadacar.

If you can't post such a quote, then you should retract your statement and stop making false propaganda.

And Srila Prabhupada did not know this when he wrote, "So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association."? SP 69-1-31 letter Hrsikesa

That's why we stayed. Acarya's may have differing opinions. Srila

Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of how Srila Sanatana Goswami saw Krsna lila going to Vrndavana and to Mathura then Dwaraka but Srila Rupa Goswami viewed Krsna lila as ending in Vrndavana. Are we asked to accept either Rupa or Sanatana and reject the other, never. It's so unfortunate that the "Prabhupada Onliests" in ISKCON and amongst the Rtviks remain in an elementary school understanding of Krsna Consciousness. It certainly doesn't help when the followers of one Gaudiya acarya are carrying on a war against another Gaudiya acarya. All more evidence of the onslaught of Kali Yuga.

But that "quote"

"Me and Swamiji (our Prabhupada) we do not see eye to eye on all things."

was not a real quote.

Sridhara Maharaja never refered to Prabhupada as "Swamiji".

that's how Narayana Maharaja refers to him.

Sridhar Maharaja referred to him as "Swami Maharaja".

To refer to the acharya as "Swamiji" is considered disrespectful by knowers of Vaishnava ettiquete.

Swamiji means "my friend (my buddy) the Swami"

ISKCON devotees stopped that in the very beginning when they found out it was rude to refer to Srila Prabhupada as "Swamiji"

Sridhar Maharaja said:

"I am not wholly one with Swami Maharaja".

Nobody is wholly one with anybody.

Sridhar Maharaja had a right to his own space and his own realizations.

The inhabitants enjoyed Uddhava's association in the same way as they enjoyed the association of Krsna.

This is very deep.

Only a materially infected soul would be envious of Uddhava.

Rasa-lila ki-jaya!

Krsna Book

All the gopis were solaced by the instruction of Uddhava, and they requested him to stay in Vrndavana for a few days more. Uddhava agreed to their proposal and stayed with them not only for a few days, but for a few months. He always kept them engaged in thinking of the transcendental message of Krsna and His pastimes, and the gopis were feeling as if they were experiencing direct association with Krsna. While Uddhava remained in Vrndavana, the inhabitants enjoyed his association. As they discussed the activities of Krsna, the days passed just like moments. Vrndavana's natural atmosphere, with the presence of the river Yamuna, its nice orchards of trees decorated with various fruits, Govardhana Hill, caves, blooming flowers--all combined to inspire Uddhava to narrate Krsna's pastimes. The inhabitants enjoyed Uddhava's association in the same way as they enjoyed the association of Krsna.

He always kept them engaged in thinking of the transcendental message of Krsna and His pastimes, and the gopis were feeling as if they were experiencing direct association with Krsna.

But, it appeared that he had left Vrindavan.

The gopis would have died in seperation had not Uddhava come to give them proper guidance how to live in seperation.

without Krishna there is no Vrindavan, no Nanda and Yashoda, no Radharani and no gopis.

But, he appeared to be absent by the power of yogamaya.

Krishna is the supreme spirit.

He is everywhere.

But, sometimes he is invisible.

I personally know some disciples of TM who still distribute Prabhupada's books, encouraged to do so by their guru. Actually, for many years ISKCON refused to sell books to his disciples (at least in Poland) and they were getting Prabhupada's books through a symphathetic Iskcon devotee. Just a side note on the subject.

There is much I like about Tripurari Swami.

I could even say I love Tripurari Swami.

I don't agree with everything that Tripurari Swami has done and said.

Maharaja and myself have a little history together.

I helped him excecute an overthrow of a temple president in Chicago one time.

Maharaja once told me I was one of his favorite devotees.

I still get a chuckle when I remember that.

He was quite the diplomat.

I never believed it for a minute.

Before he ever established his Audarya Ashram, i referred to him as the "bhagavat audarya avatar" in an essay I wrote and personally handed to him.

I wrote that because Srila Prabhupada referred to him as the incarnation of book distribution.

I admire Tripurari Maharaja greatly.

He is one of my favorite devotees!!!!!!

Like a brother, I don't always agree with him on everything.

I expected that someone would say that Freud is out of date, etc. From that point of view Freud has been out of date since he appeared. I am sorry that I am out of date. I deal with the issues that concern me. But as far as Freud is concerned, I believe that Prabhupada himself approved of his theory that sex was a basic motivation. Freud could have said love or need instead of sex, or he could have just said "life." The issue is ultimately not what Freud said, but what Rupa Goswami said. And that is that madhura rasa is sarva-rasa-sara. All these footnotes to Freud have basically changed nothing.

 

I will get to all of this by and by.

 

Look, I don't claim to know ANYTHING better than Sridhar Maharaj, except perhaps the contents of Ujjvala-nilamani--but then maybe he was just being coy. I am 56 years old, my friend. I have been studying Krishna consciousness, chanting the Holy Names and so on for 36 years. No one is going to tell me that I cannot disagree with anyone, including Sridhar Maharaj, about anything. Sridhar Maharaj was to me a guru figure and I still have a deep and abiding affection for him. I have said this many times. But of course he was displeased with me when I went to Lalita Prasad Thakur. I can understand and appreciate his feelings. It's like that song 'they can't take that away from me"--what I received from Sridhara Maharaj I have not lost and what I appreciated about him I continue to appreciate. I am not kritaghna.

 

But my attitude towards gurus is not quite the same as that of the general orthodoxy. I believe that you can push on. My example was that of the gopis refusing to obey Krishna himself. The guru is Krishna and Krishna is the guru, but Krishna is a tricky dude who keeps taking different forms. Ultimately, we engage in sravana, manana, nididhyasana because are obliged by our nature to search for understanding. And our understanding will always be our own.

 

But our understanding all comes back to our "need" for prema. Prema is the prayojana. Prema is the prayojana. Prema is the prayojana.

I understand a little of where you are coming from.

I am sure there is a market for the kind of message you preach.

In some ways, I think it would be really cool if surrendering to Krishna was as painless and congenial as your vision.

But, in the final analysis, I don't think that acheiving prema can be accomplished whilst maintaining the kind of attached process you invision.

I think if you examine the teachings of Mahaprabhu that you will find that it is not all sugar and spice.

There are sacrifices to be made. Attachments to be given up and there is a bitter pill that must be swallowed to make us better.

Medicine does not always come in a palatable and pleasant form.

Most of us have no conception of sacrifice.

All we know is taking and using of others.

The degree of sacrifice we must attain to is very great.

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

But, Tripurari Maharaja got the attention and appreciation of Srila Prabhupada for distributing books - not for writing them.

Srila Prabhupada also said that a person had to be empowered and authorized to write books.

There is so much to know about overlapping of tastes and all the subtle nuances of presenting bhakti shastra.

I personally don't believe that sadhakas should write literatures on bhakti.

I think that should be the right of the siddhas only.

I'm sure you would disagree.

Appreciating Srila Prabhupada's books is nice, just try to keep your false pride and ego out of it.

I'm just relating my own experience.

I doubt that anyone on this forum is completely devoid of some ego.

I don't consider myself to be an exception.

I was practicing and studying hatha-yoga in 1974.

I was teaching yoga to some friends in my home town after I got out of the Navy.

One of these friends brought a book to one of our get-togethers.

We were doing pranayama and chanting Om etc.

then this friend brought out a book some person had walked up to him and sold him at the mall.

That book was Nectar of Devotion.

The moment I saw the book I could experience nectar.

My friend opened it up and showed me the Hare Krishna mantra and told me how to chant it as the devotee at the mall had told him.

I was totally taken in by that book. It was just radiating nectar and I could sense it.

My friends asked me if I knew anything about Bhakti-yoga.

I told them that I did not.

But, I told them right there immediatly that with this book I had finally found to the topmost yoga system and that I would spend the rest of my life trying to understand that book.

The books have always been nectar to me from the first moment I touched one.

To this very day, there is NOTHING that is a nectarine to me as the books of Srila Prabhuapda.

 

You can claim that tasting an apple is a hoax, and that the real nectar is in reading books about apple trees and in campaigning for apple prosperity, and that the alleged taste of apples is just the propaganda of apple merchants.

I tasted nectar and smelled the lotus fragrance coming from the books of Srila Prabhupada from the first second I touched one.

to this very day I taste that nectar and smell the lotus flower aroma of those books.

If a person doesn't have that same experience as I do, then I guess they just have a way to go to get to where they need to be.

These books are dripping with nectar.

the fragrance can be smelled all the way back to Goloka.

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

to make this point authoritatively, you need to present the actual quote of Srila Prabhupada instructing his diciples to write books.

you know that in devotee circles you can't you throw out ideas without supporting evidence.

I don't have much more to add to the discussion about romance, except that I have a very lovely wife with exceptional qualities and her real name is Angel.

She is my Angel of mercy and has a heart of gold.

I don't care to talk about romance.

I have romance.

Uddhava minutely studied the transcendental abnormal condition of the gopis in their separation from Krsna, and he thought it wise to repeat all the pastimes of Sri Krsna over and over again. Materialistic persons are always in a burning condition on account of the blazing fire of material miseries. The gopis also were burning in a transcendental blazing fire due to separation from Krsna. The blazing fire which was exasperating the gopis, however, is different from the fire of the material world. The gopis constantly want the association of Krsna, whereas the materialistic person wants the advantage of material comforts.

 

It is stated by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura that Krsna saved the cowherd boys from the blazing forest fire within a second, while their eyes were closed. Similarly, Uddhava advised the gopis that they could be saved from the fire of separation by closing their eyes and meditating on the activities of Krsna from the very beginning of their association with Him. From the outside, the gopis could visualize all the pastimes of Krsna by hearing the descriptions of Uddhava, and from inside they could remember those pastimes. From the instruction of Uddhava, the gopis could understand that Krsna was not separate from them. As they were constantly thinking of Krsna, Krsna was also thinking of them constantly while at Mathura.

 

Uddhava's messages and instructions saved the gopis from immediate death, and the gopis acknowledged the benediction from Uddhava. Uddhava practically acted as the preceptor spiritual master of the gopis, and they in return they worshiped him as they would worship Krsna. It is recommended in authoritative scriptures that the spiritual master should be worshiped on the level of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of his being His very confidential servitor, and it is accepted by great authorities that the spiritual master is the external manifestation of Krsna. The gopis were relieved from their transcendental burning condition by realizing that Krsna was with them. Internally, they remembered His association within their hearts, and externally Uddhava helped them to appreciate Krsna by conclusive instructions.

Uddhava was the siksha guru of Radharani and the gopis.

I think Kripamoya needs some kripa. Few years from now you'll be a Mayavadi. 100% Guarantee.

I wouldn't expect anything less from one of the clueless zombies of Narayana Maharaja.

I would rather be a mayavadi than a follower of Narayana Maharaja.

Your conclusion is clearly prejudiced. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura have a desire to serve Sri Radhika in Her mood of separation as do all Rupanugas. In their service then do not see the non-dual nature of bhakti like a jnani-yogi such as Uddhava when he first went to Vrndavana. Consequently they cannot stand to see their Swamini suffer in so much seperation from Krsna, therefore they try to make arraingements for the transcendental meeting between Radha and Krsna.

 

nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai

ya yalibhir yuktir apekshaniya

tatrati-dakshyad ati-vallabhasya

vande guroh shri-caranaravindam

When you call Uddhava a jnani-yogi I get real pissed-off.

That is the most crude nonsense I have ever heard.

Uddhava prayed to be a clump of grass in Vrindavana to get the feet dust of the gopis on him because he was too ashamed to touch their lotus feet.

You people are INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Radha Mai Madhava Gopala Hari Nama

Japatu Japatu Radhe Vrindavana Dham

Saranam Varanam Premai Harinam

Sriti Mai Vandhava Saranam Nittam

 

Hey Radhe, I am your Madhava, I am your cowboy Hari. I only remember your name always in Vrindavan. In your remembrance I take only name of Hari, I remember you always with all my old friends together.

 

Jayatu Jayatu Radhe Hari Vasi Badane

Sudha Mai Sriti Rupe Tame Mai Saranam

Yogi Mai Ananadama Sudhaa Varanam

Radhe Radhe Gopibala Sarane

 

When the flute of Hari I hear, I only listen your glorious name Radhe, Radhe. I only remember you from my memory in the form of nectar. In the form of a Yogi, I fill up all nectar of your love with your name Radhe, Radhe on behalf of all Gopies (Gopibala) of lord Hari

 

Antara Hari Moi Kebala Prema Nama

Krsna Krsna Mai Taba Nama Hare Rama

Yoga Bala Gopala Debamai Bhakthi

Antima Rasa Lila Kebala Tu Shakthi

 

Inside me only name of Hari with His supreme Love. In the name of Krsna I worship you calling Hare Rama. All those young yogis like companion of cowboys to Krsna, I offer my all obeisance to you through my devotion. Finally in all those rasa lila you become my all resources of energy to love everyone like you.

I have come to dislike the term "cowboy", because in the western countries cowboys are cow killers.

I prefer "dairy boys" or "milkmaids", because in dairy farming the cows are not killed. (I know that eventually they are, but in India they are not supposed to be killed).

Cowboys are rope smoking, cattle herding, cattle branding cow killers.

We need to find a better word for gopa than "cowboy".

I think maybe "dairy boy" is better.

Indeed, their living presence is their very kripa. Siksha is for the living.

that makes cute poetry, but you can't support that with shastra.

Most of them don't have a clue?

 

Does that include me?

 

I guess we all have our own views. You seem to be just saying a few things you heard but never really read any of His Books.

 

You should give it a chance.

Narayana Maharaja regularly pushes himself off on new devotees that have no faith in him and don't have a clue to what he is saying or if it corresponds to the Gaudiya siddhanta.

He is always telling some innocent bystander that they need to take initiation from him, even though they don't know him from Adam.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there is something seriously wrong with all that.

Offenses of the highest level simply turn them into madmen.

It's not amazing that there are people around to follow.

Rajneesh had plenty of followers.

There are many followers of many pseudo-incarnations all over India.

finding followers is not that difficult.

Finding a pure devotee is VERY VERY rare.

Srila Prabhupada ki-jaya!

Srila Sridhar Maharaja ki-jaya!

Yes, with personally I meant physically. Written and recorded media are nowhere as fit carriers of spiritual impact as personal meeting. To be in the proximity of a devotee filled with svarupa-sakti on virtue of his practice is powerful indeed, it is hard to escape the halo.

that's all a myth.

Professional gurus have been preaching that same trick since time immemorial.

It's a hoax.

Usually, being in the physical proximity is a deterent to faith.

Better take the siksha from the inspired side of the sadhu and if you don't get near his body, then that is quite alright.

The magic is in chanting Hare Krishna.

These guys fall asleep in front of the guru during lectures.

There is no magic in the physical proximity of the guru.

After looking at some of the above posts as well as other writings of Sripad Narayana Maharaja, it is quite apparent that he has now ascended to the level of giving his own commentaries on the Gaudiya canon.

He has proclaimed himself as a neophyte that is just approaching the madhyama stage.

There are a lot of devotees around the world that would not have any disagreement with that.

The questions is; why is a madhyama-adhikari, who is a self-proclaimed sadhaka seeking self-realization, now giving different commentary on the most elevated Gaudiya shastra?

I guess Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jiva Goswami and the other great Vaishnava Goswamis forgot to mention something?

Narayana Maharaja makes many statements without referring to the words of the genuine Gaudiya acharyas.

Many devotees will NEVER accept his madhyama-adhikari (at best) commentaries that are tainted with the siddha-pranali sanga that he was infected with when he blooped from the Gaudiya Math to suck-up to the siddha-pranali types at Radha-kunda.

Narayana Maharaja is trying to create a convergence of Gaudiya Math with the siddha-pranali influence that he had to be DRAGGED away from.

It might work for a while, but someday most of the devotees are going to look back at this stuff as just so much fantasy - like a day at Disneyland.

Sadhakas like Narayana Maharaja don't need to be making commentary on shastra.

Most of the devotees he initiates don't have a clue about what he is saying or if it corresponds to what the authentic acharyas have given.

Can't you guys come up with some regular nik to go by instead of posting as "guest" over and over.

We would like to know which post goes with which guest on a regular basis.

You can keep you true identity secret, but can't you at least think of a nik you could use regularly?