Beggar

Well, at least I changed it. Rupanuga was my GBC a few times. He was so authoritarian in approach it used to blow my mind - very much old school.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja explains that rupanuga means literally being the follower of Sri Rupa Goswami / Sri Rupa Manjari, which practically means aspiring for manjari-bhava.

He also explains that those whose devotion is based on fear (of suffering, death etc) must follow Srila Rupa Goswami whereas those who are on the level of spontaneous devotion will see Srila Rupa Goswami as Sri Rupa Manjari. Just like Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Narayana Maharaja has warned us not to try to jump prematurely to the higher level.

TLC CH. 17

...Other pure devotees, who are more or less attached to Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu, are attracted by other transcendental relationships, such as parental affection, friendship and servitorship. When such devotees are attached to the activities of Lord Caitanya, they at once become confidential devotees in conjugal love with the Supreme Lord.

Folks, they don't call him Sonic fer nutt'n. Sonic Yogi has just hit a 500 foot, plus, home run right OUT of the entire ball park - on Gaura Purnima, by golly.

Aren't you glad you tuned in?

First of all thanks for reading this post

 

My faith in Gaudiya Vaishnavism is stronger than ever right now,after reading and contemplating several arguments and refutations i can with full honesty say the Vinoda Saraswat parampara lineage is for me.

 

So i beg the senoir devotees to help me with some questions.

 

1) What is the relationship between Swami Narasingha and Srila Govinda Maharaj? ( just curious)

2)Who is an ideal Guru for a aspiring devotee who wishes to practice the sadhana/raganuga path as taught by Srila Bhaktisiddantha Saraswati Thakur? (between Srila BV Narayana Maharaj, Swami BV Tripurari and Swami Narasingha)

 

i know there may be diffrences but i would like to hear the diffrences in order to understand myself better and help me make a proper decision, please any suggestions or advice.

 

Haribol!! Hare Krsna!!

Hare Krsna. It seems that you are looking for an objective answer, but guru bhakti, which is an important component of Krsna bhakti is anything but objective. Rather, it is subjective based on love and affection. Since we are of mixed diksa (initiating) and siksa (instructing) gurus on this site, definitive answers would sound sectarian and are bound to ruffle some feathers and hurt some feelings. Of course on Audarya, Spiritual Discussions we are known to engage in such things but we have to remember that we are on the eve of Gaura Purnima, so really it is a time to unite under the banner of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, at least for a day or so. So as Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said, "the heart is a tasting machine".

So do the research on your own and correspond with different followers of different gurus and ask them about their experiences and their guru's opinions on this subject. Maybe if you can, actually meet the teachers that you are refering to, and then let your heart be your guide.

...Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur was not pleased with Krsnadas Babaji.

So, without the blessings of the spiritual master, then how are we to think that his position in sakhya-rasa was actually genuine and transcendental?

 

I am not convinced.

He was no doubt a very nice devotee, but he could not please his guru with his babaji lifestyle.

 

His perfection in sakhya-rasa is questionable.

 

His claim to sakhya-rasa along with his unapproved babaji lifestyle do not seem to be a very good combination for pleasing the acharya who's blessing are the secret to spiritual perfection and revelation of siddha-deha.

Perhaps Srila Babaji Maharaja was a unique exception to many 'rules'. He was bhajanandi, whereas his guru was training his disciples to be gosthyanandi, as was Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Maybe the different 'chastisments', by his guru and his esteemed godbrother were for the sake of their general followers, not Babaji Maharaja.

When a group of Western devotees went to Navadvipa in '76 to learn mrdanga beats from Babaji Maharaja, they were told that they could find him at Srila Sridhar Maharaja's Math. Sometimes when they asked him about a beat, he would show them. Sometimes he would just break into a bhajana and sometimes he would grab them by the arm and drag them upstairs to hear Srila Sridhar Maharaja speak. It is all on a tape which is quite amazing.

NOD ch. 15

 

So, Uddhava aspired to follow in the foosteps of the gopis but somehow he was just not allowed to because he is eternally locked in his mixed rasa of servitude and friendship with Krsna?

 

Uddhava wanted to follow the gopi-bhava, but he is eternally prohibited from attaining that?

 

In the material world we say, "its a dirty job but somebody has to do it."

In the spiritual world they say, "its a blissful service but somebody has to do it." Compare and contrast. Talk amongst yourselves, I'm vaklemfed.

BTW folks, it is bad taste to even think about a successor at a time like this.

Let those who served and loved Srila Puri Maharaja feel the separation, they must feel. For others be in the moment and just appreciate Srila Maharaja's memory. I was very fortunate enough to personally meet him, several years ago, and I must thank my lucky stars.

[srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja:]... It cannot be said exactly like this. Everything about his relationship with Krsna is present in his svarupa, but he has never felt it. In cannot be said that in a seed there is no tree, no fruit, no branches, and no leaves. All this is there, but we cannot see it; it is in a latent position....

Look at the rest of the quote at post #2:

Inconceivable Jiva-Tattva

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

[Question:] The anadi-baddha jiva never had any direct relationship with Krsna?

[srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja:] It cannot be said exactly like this. Everything about his relationship with Krsna is present in his svarupa, but he has never felt it. In cannot be said that in a seed there is no tree, no fruit, no branches, and no leaves. All this is there, but we cannot see it; it is in a latent position.

If a person has eyes, he sees everything in the seed – how many leaves will come, how many fruits will be there, when the leaves will be green, after how much time the leaves will turn yellow, at what time they will fall, and when there will again be new leaves. Everything is there in the seed, in a latent stage.

The mukta-mahapurusa, or liberated, self-realized soul, sees that the soul in this world is serving Krsna, but we see that we are conditioned souls. No definitive mundane words can be used to actually explain jiva-tattva, because it is beyond siddhanta. In other words, the form of the soul is beyond our comprehension.

It is quite clear from shastra that Narada was a conditioned jiva in a previous life...

 

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Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.

 

 

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti

 

 

 

 

 

‘sadhya’ kabhu naya

 

zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan

 

See how the issues are very interrelated?

I also owe Beggar unlimitedly for supplying this information.

Beggar is also one of my gurus.

He is my senior Godbrother and siksha guru.

 

I take the dust of his lotus feet on my head.

 

 

Beggar ki-jaya!!!!!!!!!!!

Sonic Yogi: Beggar is my siksa guru.

Dr. Von Schulzt: How long have you felt this way?

Sonic Yogi: Since I read that post where he quoted Narayana Maharaja explaining the position of Narada Muni.

Dr. Von Shultz: Calm down Mr. Yogi or we will have to put you in restraints.

Sonic Yogi: No, no you don't understand Beggar is my siksa guru.

Dr. Von Shultz: Nurse Kravizt is preparing a shot for you, Mr. Yogic, it will help you calm down. You will have to drop your drawers because it is too powerful of a shot to administer in your arm.

Cut to Rod Serling:

 

 

Here we have the strange case of one Sonic Yogi; He seems think that Beggar is his siksa guru, just because Beggar knows how to use the Google search engine and found a neat quote by Srila Narayana Maharaja. These things are going on in The Audayazone...

 

[fade to scene one with audio effects]

So just as it appears that the jiva manifests, but is actually eternal, similarly the sthayi-bhava appears to manifest, but is actually eternal. This is what I meant before by the interrelatedness of the two issues. So one can go up to Goloka from Vaikuntha and the story of Narada seems to be one of the major examples. So in a sense one who goes up from Vaikuntha to Goloka is really just realizing their "eternal" form. Its just like the origin of the jiva issue in that there is only so much analyzing that one can do, until we get it that language really doesn't do the topic full justice because we are dealing with something that is really inconceivable. But when we hear about these subjects from the lotus mouth of a sadhu (sad - sat) or sat guru then not only do we hear about the intricacies of the topic, but also there is the deep faith, love and affection in that voice. Sometimes if we are fortunate then we can read it and such a mood will just jump off the page into our hearts. But if we are not careful then we will only see the intracies and apparent contradictions of the subject as we try to disect it with our rational minds, just because we have nothing better to do.

Just look at this part. I'm not demanding you accept the authority here. But at least look at the ideas. What do you think? Does this answer any of the questions? Do you agree? Do you want something more specific?

[Pujyapada Padmanabha Maharaja:] Srila Gurudeva, in that connection, we hear that Sri Narada Muni, who is also siddha (situated in his eternally perfect spiritual body), performed so many austerities at Narada Kunda, and he attained the body of a gopi. He was already siddha and yet he attained it, so why can't Uddhava get it?

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] Uddhava will not attain a gopi body. Narada eternally has so many forms in all the sweet pastimes of Krsna. In one form he is Madhu-mangala (Krsna's cowherd-boy friend). In a second form he is Naradiya gopi; in another form, in Vaikuntha, he is with Lord Narayana; and he has another form in Svarga (heaven), with the demigods. He has so many eternal forms.

[Pujyapada Madhava Maharaja:] Baladeva Prabhu is also an example of this. He has vatsalya (parental mood), sakhya (the mood of a cowherd friend), dasya (the mood of a servant), and even madhurya (the mood of a gopi) in the form of Ananga Manjari.

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] But others - like Nanda Baba and Yasoda, Vasudeva and Devaki, Uddhava, and Akrura - cannot add other rasas to their already eternally existing rasa.

If one has a sthayi-bhava (the foundational ecstasy of a particular relationship with Krsna) in only one mood, he will always be in that one mood.

Morning Walk [Excerpt]

New Zealand:

Wednesday, 09 January 2008

[Venu-gopal dasa:] If such a great devotee like Uddhava could not pass the gopis' ‘entrance examination', to see if he was eligible to learn how to get prema like theirs, how can I hope to get such prema?

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] He is a siddha-bhakta (a devotee already at the stage of perfection), so he cannot attain a new relationship with Krsna. But we are now independent. [We are free to endeavour for that prema -ed] If, by serving and hearing from a rasika tattva-jna Vaisnava, you will develop greed for serving the gopis and the Divine Couple Sri Sri Radha Krsna, then, by devotional practices you can go to Goloka Vrndavana. One can even attain the state of enjoying the rasa-dance with the gopis, to serve Them there.

[Pujyapada Padmanabha Maharaja:] Srila Gurudeva, in that connection, we hear that Sri Narada Muni, who is also siddha (situated in his eternally perfect spiritual body), performed so many austerities at Narada Kunda, and he attained the body of a gopi. He was already siddha and yet he attained it, so why can't Uddhava get it?

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] Uddhava will not attain a gopi body. Narada eternally has so many forms in all the sweet pastimes of Krsna. In one form he is Madhu-mangala (Krsna's cowherd-boy friend). In a second form he is Naradiya gopi; in another form, in Vaikuntha, he is with Lord Narayana; and he has another form in Svarga (heaven), with the demigods. He has so many eternal forms.

[Pujyapada Madhava Maharaja:] Baladeva Prabhu is also an example of this. He has vatsalya (parental mood), sakhya (the mood of a cowherd friend), dasya (the mood of a servant), and even madhurya (the mood of a gopi) in the form of Ananga Manjari.

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] But others - like Nanda Baba and Yasoda, Vasudeva and Devaki, Uddhava, and Akrura - cannot add other rasas to their already eternally existing rasa.

If one has a sthayi-bhava (the foundational ecstasy of a particular relationship with Krsna) in only one mood, he will always be in that one mood.

In the beginning of one's devotional practices, by hearing about the Lord's pastimes, one my want to serve Sri Sri Radha-Krsna and he may also want to serve Sri Ramacandra. In that case he will think about Rama and His associates like Hanuman, Bharata, and Laksmana, and he will also meditate on Sri Krsna's pastimes with His sakhas, or with Nanda Baba and Yasoda, or with the gopis. In other words, in the beginning one is not situated in his permanent relationship, so one will sometimes be attracted to a particular relationship when he hears about it, and at other times one may become attracted to another service relationship when he hears about it.

One can have two spiritual forms - in the pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and in the pastimes of Sri Krsna - and this is from the beginning of one's devotional practices.

[Dhruva dasa:] Gurudeva, does the soul somehow separate to be in two forms in two pastimes?

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] Krsna is akhanda-tattva. Akhanda means undivided, or whole. So how can He manifest in millions of forms? We cannot imagine anything inconceivable, even in this world. How have the trees come? Seeds come from trees, and trees again come from seeds. Flowers come and leaves come. How? We cannot imagine this. So, everything about Sri Krsna is inconceivable.

[Dhruva dasa:] Consciousness is always expanding and Krsna is always expanding. So do Krsna's devotees also expand, even in their perfect spiritual forms?

[srila Narayan Gosvami Maharaja:] Yes. For example, Mother Yasoda has unlimited forms. Wherever Krsna is, she is. This is true for Nanda Baba also, and for Madhu-mangala and all of Krsna's other associates as well. But their rasa (their particular relationship with Krsna) will be the same.

 

What that good is, I guess is something we all have to find in our own heart.

 

Find out in our own heart:

1. What is Srila Prabhupada's rasa with Krsna.

1.a. What is his eternal form in Krsna and Gaura lila?

1.b. What is our eternal form?

2. What is the origin of the jiva soul.

3. Whether our sthayi bhava is fixed or can be changed.

4. Whether Sri Guru is giving Krsna Consciousness or uncovering

that which is already within us.

5. Whether we are becoming detached from the material world and

attached to Krsna.

6. Whether or not we are attached to pratistha, position, or gradually

giving it up.

7. Whether or not we understand the goal of sadhana bhakti.

8. Whether or not we have overestimated our own position.

9. Whether or not we are offensive.

10. Whether or not we are really sincere.

Unfortunately for myself, I would rather argue about things that are a zillion miles from my own realization just because I think that I can understand them intellectually. So ditto, if I have offended anyone please forgive me.

Hare Krsna

 

I think it would be valuable for the devotees to be able to see everything which Srila Sridhara Maharaj had to say on this issue in a chronological order along with the questions of the devotees asked of him...

Yes, I'm glad you see chronological order of the discussions as being important because it has been alleged that this quote:

At least temporarily he has showed like that. What he has expressed there in that journey there, it is almost clear that he liked that sort of lila best, but it may be, it might have been suppressed purposely; it also cannot be denied, maybe. That is one thing. There may be such a possibility, and he has given, he has said that Radharani was his gurudeva. His gurudeva was Radharani, but he himself was thinking that perhaps madhurya rasa should not be distributed in the first installment. That might have been his view.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

At least temporarily he has showed like that. What he has expressed there in that journey there, it is almost clear that he liked that sort of lila best, but it may be, it might have been suppressed purposely; it also cannot be denied, maybe. That is one thing. There may be such a possibility, and he has given, he has said that Radharani was his gurudeva. His gurudeva was Radharani, but he himself was thinking that perhaps madhurya rasa should not be distributed in the first installment. That might have been his view.

I take it like this, that it was Srila B.V. Prabhupada's decision not to distribute madhurya rasa in the first installment and Srila Sridhar Maharaja does not want to disturb those persons in installment one who are not ready for installment two. Yet it is the very vani of Srila Sridhar Maharaja that for Srila Prabhupada's disciples is installment two. So he is treading lightly and being carelful and at the same time dropping the hint to the others that - maybe, just maybe your are correct and that if his gurudeva is Radharani then of course, he must be in madhurya rasa. This is how I heard the first time in 1982 and that is how I hear it today. Therefore all manifestations of sakhya during Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila were either coming through as a manifestation of his saktyavesa of Nityananada Prabhu or were as Srila Sridhar Maharaja stated, something that manifesting during the conscious suppresion of madhurya rasa [since the adi-rasa contains all rasa]. This being said, for me this is really just an intellectual exercise and I hope against hope that one day I will develop the desire to serve and know Srila Prabhupada as he is in nitya lila, otherwise all is for naught, srama eva hi kevalam.

Do you have faith that somebody knows? Do you have faith that somebody can Know Srila Prabhupada's siddha swarupa? But not knowing by research work and then weighing the evidence like a civil court or a university study, but knowing by revelation, by realization through the descending process. There are those that know, that have been given the eyes to see, like Duryodhana, was given spiritual eyes by Krsna to get a brief glimpse of Him.

This is the process, not to take apart recorded statements and compare them with anecdotal evidence from questionable sources.

Go ask someone who has been given the eyes to see for themselves and they may just tell you that you should engage in the process so that you may be give the eyes to see for yourself. And this is really what Srila Narayana Maharaja is saying, what Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Prabhuapada are saying, what all bonafide gurus are saying. But unless we are deeply engaged in this process we will take what is really Hari katha as knowledge that we can grasp in our fist. Yet when we take this approach, we will get the opposite, we will find our fist is quite empty.

Sri Narayana Maharaja, Mathura Los Angeles, June 27, 1975:

There is a difference between rupanuga and raganuga . Those who are in this world and serve Sri Sri Radha-Krsna on the path of raga (loving attachment), following in the footsteps of the ragatmika-bhaktas who are described by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu and Sri Ujjvala-nilamani, all are raganuga.

This applies to those devotees who have some greed for vraja-bhakti and are actually following the process to attain it. Still, it may be that they are not rupanuga, but raganuga. Sri Jayadeva Gosvami was not rupanuga, but raganuga. Sri Bilvamangala Thakura was truly raganuga, but not rupanuga. Sri Svarupa Damodara and Sri Raya Ramananda were not rupanuga, although they were in the intimate association of Srila Rupa Gosvami. They are Lalita devi and Visakha devi themselves, so they are in a different category of eternal associates of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. They are not rupanuga.

Those who follow Srila Rupa Gosvami’s Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu and are under the guidance of Krsna’s cowherd friends (sakhas), like Subala, Sridama and all others, and who want to serve Lord Krsna like the sakhas – will not be called rupanuga. They will be called raganuga.

Srila Prabhupāda, Los Angeles, June 27, 1975:

We are called rūpānuga, "strictly following the footstep of Rūpa Gosvāmī." Rūpānuga-varāya te. And our Guru Mahārāja was..., rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe: "Anything against the plan of Rūpa Gosvāmī, not accepted." Rūpa-raghunātha-pade yāra āśa, caitanya-caritāmṛta kahe kṛṣṇadāsa.

If I understand it correctly, what you are saying here is that Narayana Maharaja is the senior most guru today and that his realized opinion should take precedence over that of others.

Actually this not what I am saying, I am saying that one should approach a siksa guru that they have faith in, and inquire from them. For those who want to line up with Srila Sridhar Maharaja, what about Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja? Why don't they ask him? Well they don't because they think, "I have my math and he has his." But this does not mean that they are even close to being his league, even if they think they are. Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that Govinda Maharaja is a "transcendental personality", that sounds like a very high recommendation. So, why do research? If you don't have faith in Srila Narayana Maharaja then for God sakes ask someone like Srila Govinda Maharaja? You don't think that he understands Srila Sridhar Maharaja after forty years of intimate service and hearing? Another interesting thing about Govinda Maharaja is that he actually lived with Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada for a couple of years in the late forties. Why not ask him about this:

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

At least temporarily he has showed like that. What he has expressed there in that journey there, it is almost clear that he liked that sort of lila best, but it may be, it might have been suppressed purposely; it also cannot be denied, maybe. That is one thing. There may be such a possibility, and he has given, he has said that Radharani was his gurudeva. His gurudeva was Radharani, but he himself was thinking that perhaps madhurya rasa should not be distributed in the first installment. That might have been his view.

 

And BTW, this statement was not made as a reaction to Prabhupada disciples in Iskcon's criticisms; That happened later.

Also Srila Narayana Maharaja has been asked, "what is Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's spiritual identity, who is he in Krsna lila?" The only answer that I have ever heard is, "I know and when you are qualified, I shall tell you." And this is the exact same answer that Srimati Jadurani (Symarani) received, which she told me, personally. And she is practically the most senior Western devotee in that sanga! So Srila Narayana Maharaja's opinion is that as a class, we (including Indian neophytes, also) are not qualified to receive a definitive answer on the subject and Srila Sridhar Maharaja also gave qualified statements, not a definitive answer.

Yet, so many right here on this forum are taking his statements that the evidence is definitive even though he gives the maybes as shown above.

...and they will choose according to their inner nature. gHari proposed that it's "like another Crow and Tal Fruit debate," and here is the exact instance where he is proven correct. At what point did the jiva fall? At what point did choice come into play if we already have an internal swarupa [in seed form]? Here is where the topics become one, or at least interrelated. And if you look closely you will see that it's deeply intertwined with who is guru, and who can become guru or even a sannyasi or brahmana?

Krsnaloka.

So, considering this, I don't know if I can agree with Narayana Maharaja on his version as Begger posted above.

 

Guru is one.

Guru: Look, over there. Is it a rope or a snake?

Disciple: It is a snake.

Guru: Are you sure, but look again for actually you will see that its a rope.

Disciple: Yes, yes, now I see it. It is a rope.

Guru: Actually it is a snake, look carefully.

Disciple: No, no, I have seen.

Guru: But you have not really seen, it is really snake after, so look.

Disciple: Yes, I will look. Oh my Gurudeva, yes, yes, it is a snake!

Guru: Now look again my disciple for you will see that you are incorrect...

(I know that Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that he is "not wholly one with Swami Maharaja",

but on certain points and on certain levels they are one, around 99.9% of the time as are all real Gaudiya Saraswat gurus. Not only will the guru contradict perhaps another guru, but he will appear to contradict himself, but it is our limitations....)

Take a look at the whole article:

http://www.purebhakti.com/teachers/bhakti-discourses-mainmenu-61/18-discourses-1990s/128-rupanuga-and-raganuga.html

 

...The problem in the discussion is that some apparently want to prove that Srila Prabhupada and all our teachers can be situated only in madhurya rasa, and that we must aspire for that and nothing else. But that's not what Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches. In Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita, Krishna das has Lord Krishna thinking like this as He considers coming as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu:

yuga-dharma pravartaimu nama-sankirtana

cari bhava-bhakti diya nacamu bhuvana

 

"I shall personally inaugurate the religion of the age -- nama-sankirtana, the congregational chanting of the holy name. I shall make the world dance in ecstasy, realizing the four mellows of loving devotional service (ADi 3.19)."

 

Cari bhava: He came to start the sankirtan movement and bring us to one of the four flavors of love with which the residents of Vraja please Govinda.

 

Who could be influencing devotees to do that? Could it be Narayana Maharaja? What does he have to say about this:

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

...Srila Svami Maharaja came to give what is already in each soul.

krti-sadhya bhavet sadhya-

bhava sa sadhanabhidha

nitya-siddhasya bhavasya

prakatyam hrdi sadhyata

[“When transcendental devotional service, by which love for Krsna is attained, is executed by the senses, it is called sadhana-bhakti, or the regulative discharge of devotional service. Such devotion eternally exists within the heart of every living entity. The awakening of this eternal devotion is the potentiality of devotional service in practice.”]

The soul is perfect in itself. The soul’s relation with Krsna, its name, qualities and all specialities, are already present within. This perfection is not brought from outside. Unfortunately maya covers it, but Sri Guru removes that maya and then everything manifests automatically.

This pure prema will not come by any efforts or any sadhana. What is there will come out; no new thing will come. No type of association can change what is already in the soul.

What is in your soul will manifest by sravana (hearing), kirtana (chanting) and smarana (remembering). Whatever rasa is in the soul will manifest. If it is dasya-rasa, then dasya-rasa will manifest. It is a fact that if someone is in madhurya-rasa, he will have only a little taste for dasya or sakhya-rasa. This will automatically come – it will come when our anarthas will disappear.

It is sometimes misunderstood that Srila Svami Maharaja was only in sakhya-rasa, and that he cannot give madhurya-rasa. This is not a fact. He came only for spreading the same mission to the world that was brought by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

The problem in the discussion is that some apparently want to prove that Srila Prabhupada and all our teachers can be situated only in madhurya rasa, and that we must aspire for that and nothing else.

Maybe some posters here have done that, but which substantial preacher, substantial authority in the Gaudiya Saraswat line has done or is doing this?

The answer is none! And this is the premise that seems to be behind much of the effort. Therefore it is a false premise!

Guess what Prabhus, It all comes down to who is qualified to give the definitive answer. And not only that, but who is even qualified to hear the definitive answer. This is not a court case based on the preponderance of evidence as the author seems to assert. Yes, it comes down to who is qualified to be guru. Or at least amongst gurus who is senior and who is junior. Is there anyone more senior than the "living" authorities that you are approaching? Yep, the guru thing, the rtvik thing comes full circle. You don't think that anyone has more realization? Are you ready for this? Ready or not, hear it comes!

First part of :02-27-2009, 10:52 PM <!-- / status icon and date --> #38

I did some research and I found a statement by Tripuari Maharaja that I was unaware of:

May 30, 2000, Vol. II, No. 22

Srila Prabhupada: Sakhya or Srngara-Rasa?

Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari

 

 

 

This should end any reason for debating the issue.

So why doesn't it? Some people have an agenda.