theist

..of course, mayavadis have the advantage of at least being within the scope of Vedic culture, whereas Christians do not... sort of a headstart, I would say? raghu

More ignorance. Some people who advertise themselves as very learned in Veda apparently think Veda is a set of books that have an origin in a certain place at a certain time in human history.

At least you are consistent. Veda to you is nothing but a material designation just as Vaisnavism is to you a material designation.

The meaning of universiality and transcendence are unfortunately lost on you Raghu.

Spanish Fork's Krishna Temple is a huge temple complex which needs to be maintained and might entice the leaders to follow the crowd in order to achieve the monthly cash receipts for paying all the bills.

 

That things in a spiritual place can easily get out of balance is obviously the rub in it when making everything real big. Same with the old church buildings - they interlock millions to renovate and in this way easily change owners.

 

General framework for simple living and high thinking and at the same time spreading the Sankirtan movement at best capacity is a challenge not so easy to cope.

 

 

Yes we see this practically and not just in Iskcon where they feel obliged to play the Hindu game for support but in the Catholic church as well.

This is why I favor a more simplified approach over more big expensive structures and compounds, at least in the west. Kirtans Halls. Large open space for Kirtan and festivals. Panca-tattva in picture form as the altar. Big attached kitchen.

Prabhupada warned these big building could become just a burden.

Priests. A priest is supposed to act as an intermediary between God and the laymen. A siska guru and performer of rituals that hold religious society together. The more I hear about the Puri priests the more they sound like common thugs.

Bhaktivedanta Institute scientist Henry P. Stapp writes about the "Importance of quantum decoherence in brain processes".

 

What he wants to say is, in quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence is the mechanism by which quantum systems interact with their environments to exhibit probabilistically additive behavior—a feature of classical physics—and give the appearance of wave function collapse. Decoherence occurs when a system interacts with its environment, or any complex external system, in a thermodynamically irreversible way that ensures different elements in the quantum superposition of the system+environment's wavefunction can no longer interfere with each other.

Could be that here is a solution to the problem.

:confused: :confused::confused: :confused: Huh? Now what was the problem again?

How true what you're saying makes lot of sense, the more they materially advance the more they feel helpless about the fact of imminent death.

Yes helpless. They are down to placing their hopes for immortality onto the hydra. Man that is sad.

This reminds me of another group hoping against hope they can come up with some materially based solution....the cryonics folks (I don't know their proper designation). Freezing the brain with sime desperate hope that maybe in the future they can be thawed out and live forever.

Clearly the material world is an insane asylum.

Having myself undergone a marked change in spirit since my abnegation of Bengali Vaishnavism, I shall applaud the sensible stance of Theist and cbrahma in having the insight and generosity to see good and genuine spirituality in traditions other than the one that most people happen to follow here.I'm not going to dignify the anti-party in this instance with a comment on their views. However, one of the immense benefits that impersonalism has afforded me is the ability to develop appreciation for a whole multitude of superficially divergent, conflicting philosophies, including a renewed realisation of the value of modern critical scholarship and science. So I can only conclude with this: "Way to go, buddies!" and in addition feel really remorseful of the past opprobrium heaped upon Christ on these forums by myself.

That is a good lesson to learn. It is one that is there in Vaisnavism also only it is being covered up by narrow minded proponents and preachers. What helps me is I accept the definition that Vaisnavism is the natural loving activity of the soul in relationship to the Supersoul. This allows me to acknowledge the Vaisnavism lying dormant in the atheist as well as the beginning theist. I see the same Vaisnavism dormant in the plants trees birds beasts demigods microbes or what have you. it is intregal to every soul. I even see dormant Vaisnavism in those taking a long rest in the brahmajyoti.

Everyone is a Vaisnava. In some it is awakened and in some it is dormant. Wherever there is a livity being there is Vaisnavism, either awakened or sleeping.

I see the stirring of Vaisnavism in the Muslim as he bows to Allah 5 times a day or the drug user who has finally come to the end of this rope and simply prays God help me (my position).

The Lord sends His representatives or comes Himself to inspire the sleeping souls to awaken and to accomplish this His message is tailored to the time place cicumstance which bind any particular grouping of souls.

This is such a day one, basic teaching of Srila Prabhupada's that I am amazed at those that claim to be in his line taking a different stance.

Tragic.

I'm beginning to see your point. Their rabid anti-Christian ad hominem which is their one-trick pony, every time I respond or question was very hard to shake. I thought by confronting them outright there was a chance of destroying it completely, but alas like the hyrda ignorance seems eternal. It is so unfortunate that it has to attack in the false guise of Vaisnavism.

And false it is. The ability to appreciate another's devotion to God is natural in a Vaisnava. Vaisnava being one who has left all sectarian considerations based on religious choice, culture land of birth etc. behind. A basic understanding of Vaisnavis is that it is a post liberation activity consisting of various moods of love of God. Post liberation means beyond sectarian, cultural, land of birth considerations and prejudice.

The atma has no land of birth anywhere in the material field yet on another thread Dark Warrior specifically claimed he accepted that God only appears in the land of his birth, India. Makes you wonder if some of these people ever gazed at the stars to grasp even a tiny glimpse of the immensity of God's creation. If they did it made little impression or no one could be so blind as to say God is only in India.

I understand your frustration cbrahma. It is painful to see Prabhupada's teaching on the universiality of the transcendental experience, and Vaisnavism in general, so grossly misrepresented.

Vatsalya rasa manifested throughout India in different forms at different times. Among the different forms, vatsalya mixed with opulence crossed India and appeared in a great personality named Jesus Christ, who was a preacher of Jewish religious principles. BVT

When I read the Bible, it has a more service-mood toward God. Also an awe and wonder emotional mental state toward God is in the Bible. by super

Yes this awe and wonder is the nature of opulence. Also supercow some Gaudiya teachers have expressed that Jesus had dasya mood as well, Thakura Bhaktivinoda has ommitted that in the above writing for whatever reason.

 

You have touched on the point I wished to open. Because a devotional entity may be mixed in moods, rasa, jnana etc does not disqualify him as a vaisnava. Infact most of us on this forum would not be suddha bhakti yogins but mixed.

 

Also vatsyala can be expressed several ways. As child to parent, or parent to child, so it seems by some writers.

Dasya rasa in Christ in crystal clear, "Not my will but Thy will be done.." Fraternity is also palpable to those with a little sensity sense of touch.

That is the same reason I come here Tirisilex. Even though I live six city blocks from an Iskcon temple I never go there for various reasons. Association is really found in sound vibration anyway.

I was just thinking about you yesterday. After reading your posts for the last year or two I can't help but notice the difference. You are making good advancement towards Krsna bhakti and that can only mean the grace of the Lord who resides with you in your heart is upon you.

Your presence is appreciated too my friend.

Endless cell division is not a new theory on immortality. Sounds intriquing superfically but then one has to consider that everytime the cell divides there is damage done to the DNA at the end points called telemores I believe. The degradation of the telemores is one theory on aging.

Poor material scientists. They want immortality so bad but can't find it in their research and theories. Well it's natural for us to seek immortality because that is an aspect of who we really are.

We are immortal already but because of identification with that which under the laws of death we think we will die. This foreign idea is the source of much anxiety for us.

Vaisnavas and their followers have a duty to try to deliver the world from this unnatural and unholy fear of death.

Bg. 2.20 - For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

OMG krsna how bored are you this morning? Go take a walk or watch a movie, anything but this.

Why continue to talk to such people cbrahma? Don't you find these small minds a bore. We have malati dasi quoting from the Old Testament as if they were the words of Christ. She considers forgiving others as a low form of spirituality as if she herself has surpassed such a state. Let's be honest these so-called big big Vaisnavas are as self-righteous as Christian evangelists and in many ways more so.

And then there is shvu. An atheist who thinks he has some realization on what Bhakti is. What a joke.

We can go with Prabhupada's realization on the matter and let all these hypocrites who claim to be his followers yet reject his teachings go on with their charade.

No need to continue to place pearls before swine.

Ok, the below are for the Hare Christnas:

 

From Exodus, No. 4 of the TEN Commandments of GOD

Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above

 

In Deutoronomy: NO. 8 of the TEN Commandments of God:

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

 

So, puja to the Archana vigraha of the Lord will send me to hell?

You have a hellish mentality if you think the arca vigraha of the Supreme Lord in a representation of a a form from heaven, That means you are just another demi-god worshiper.

The verse you quoted also means no forms from under the sea or on the land plus those in heaven which the the early jews took to mean the stars.

It is an offense to consider the Lord's Name Form etc. to be a product of heaven land or sea.

So the Bible isn't infallible, has major mistakes, and yet Jesus is clearly in union with Krishna.

 

Ok....

First sensible thing on the topic you have said. Too bad you are being sarcastic.

The same goes for many other illegal and unethical activities. Hopefully, you catch my drift.

As if the teachings of Christ are illegal and unethical. Sheesh...what a crippled intelligence.

 

Parrot talk bro. Vaisnava's realize Krsna. Vaisnava's love Krsna. That is my future but not my present.

 

I am a Vaisnava in the way everysoul is a Vaisnava but I am still asleep to my own higher nature. But this is not false humility or some self deprecation. I am on the fringes of Vaisnavism and so am in a good position in that sense but one step at a time.

 

But thank you for the nice words anyway.

I dont have the rising doubt that being a Krishna Devotee is going to send me to Hell because of what Todays Christians preach. And that is a BIG thing..

 

Nice realization. Not being God conscious IS hell. So we should be fearful of being in hell but that hell is forgetfullness of Krishna.

Forgetfullness of Krishna leaves us in the burning lake of fire and that fire is composed of material desires which never satisfy and are unquenchable.

Yes the PeTA flyer is good but incomplete. It needs to be connected up to Krsna consciousness and related topics.

For instance how about a similar flyer that has the additional information about reincarnation and karma. What happens to the soul who causes so much suffering to the animals and mother earth? Does he escape any future punishment by dying or does he indeed survive death and through karmic law is held accountable for the suffering he has caused and the mess he has made?

Animal rights is a good cause on it's own but it is simultaneously a perfect vehicle for introducing basic spiritual truths the lack of which are the basis for all this selfish behavior in the first place.

PeTA flyer showing the link between meat and the environment. They give these out to people 50 at a time to distribute. Earthday is tommorrow.

http://petaliterature.com/VEG200.pdf

There was an experiment done in the the early 1900's and perhaps this is what Taipon was referring to here,

Duncan MacDougall claimed in 1907 it weighs approximately 21 grams.

I remember it as 28 grams but that is irrelevant. This investigator rigged up a dying man to a scale and at the exact moment of death the body suddenly lost 21 or 28 grams. The thing is he didn't take into consideration any weight that may be from subtle material forces. What exactly that would be I can't say but it is a factor that must be included in any calculation.

It would be a mistake to think that the soul is subject to such measurements.

It will be wrong to say that soul has mass. It will be wrong to say that sould does not have mass. Rather, we should say that the concept of mass has no significance for soul.

Let us first see what mass is. Mass is measure of inertia. When an external force is applied on an object, then that object resists the effect of the force. This resistance is called as inertia. Mass is a measure of this inertia.

Can we apply force on soul?

Bg. 2.23 - The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

 

Bg. 2.24 - This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

In this way we can also say the soul also cannot be measured or weighed.

We read in the vedas that the soul is 1/10,000 the size of the tip of a hair. But that is just to give an indication of inconceivable smallness. Nowdays in nano technology that may not be considered so small. So we can point to the smallest nano unit and say it is 1/10,000th the size of that.

That is from one angle. But there is oneness with the unlimited Lord as well as difference so from the angle of oneness the soul can be seen as immensely huge as well and not measureable from the perspective.

Ultimately the correct way to speak of the jivatma has to be in relationship to the Paramatma. no matter how big we may be in relation to the material universes we are always inconceiveablt minute compared to Krishna

But then again Krsna is also smaller than the smallest (jivatma). Absolute relativity again. Our minds can never fully emcompass or capture Krsna, just ask Mother Yashoda.

It is has been noted by some of the members of the forum in a somewhat

pejorative way that being, or having been a Christian is a disqualification from understanding Vaisnavism. Sarcastic dismissive name-calling , like 'Hare Christian' is the result of such a mentality.

What is the scriptural, philosophical and authoritative basis for such a mentality? And let's forgo the personal attacks and a return to the sectarian wars.

Good question. I strongly suspect there is no scriptural, philosophical or authoritative basis for such a crippled mentality therefore I don't expect any honest attempts at answering your question. No doubt some mumbo jumbo will follow however.

LOL Dip that poor chump (or is it stump) into a vat of weed killer or something. Better do something fast before it starts growing on his genitals.

Yes harmonization is there. All types of knowledge point to God but not all to the same aspect of the Lord. We wouldn't approach a scientist engaged with microscope and telescope to learn rasa with the Lord nor would we approach a rasika guru to learn how the Lord's intricate material energy is working in terms of cell divison.

So there is relativity of interest even concerning the Absolute. Absolute Relativity. As long as Krsna is acknowledged it's all good.

I am seriously thinking about clearing some land from trees to create more garden space. This food crisis is likely only to get worse in the next few years.

Just in the last month I have noticed prices rise some 20% on the things I buy. And I am talking basics like sunflower and other seeds, fruits, veggies and legumes.

I can't shop for less expensive food as that is what I buy already. No land to clear for a garden of any size. Still I can't call myself poor when I think of the condition a lot of the world's population lives under.

The trick will be to remember Krsna amidst the turmoil and unheaval. If we do we can turn the coming storm into a great learning experience. "The environment is friendly."- BR Sridhar Maharaja

Theist, owing to your christian background,

I grew up an atheist not a Christian.

Why are you so fixated on me? I will have to put you on my ignore list and hope you just go away someday.