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theist

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  1. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    TRANSLATION BG 4.25 Some yogīs perfectly worship the demigods by offering different sacrifices to them, and some of them offer sacrffices in the fire of the Supreme Brahman. PURPORT As described above, a person engaged in discharging duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also called a perfect yogī or a first-class mystic. But there are others also, who perform similar sacrifices in the worship of demigods, and still others who sacrifice to the Supreme Brahman, or the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord. So there are different kinds of sacrifices in terms of different categories. Such different categories of sacrifice by different types of performers only superficially demark varieties of sacrifice. Factual sacrifice means to satisfy the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu, who is also known as Yajña. All the different varieties of sacrifice can be placed within two primary divisions: namely, sacrifice of worldly possessions and sacrifice in pursuit of transcendental knowledge. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness sacrifice all material possessions for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, while others, who want some temporary material happiness, sacrifice their material possessions to satisfy demigods such as Indra, the sun-god, etc. And others, who are impersonalists, sacrifice their identity by merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman. The demigods are powerful living entities appointed by the Supreme Lord for the maintenance and supervision of all material functions like the heating, watering and lighting of the universe. Those who are interested in material benefits worship the demigods by various sacrifices according to the Vedic rituals. They are called bahv-īśvara-vādī, or believers in many gods. But others, who worship the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth and regard the forms of the demigods as temporary, sacrifice their individual selves in the supreme fire and thus end their individual existences by merging into the existence of the Supreme. Such impersonalists spend their time in philosophical speculation to understand the transcendental nature of the Supreme. In other words, the fruitive workers sacrifice their material possessions for material enjoyment, whereas the impersonalist sacrifices his material designations with a view to merging into the existence of the Supreme. For the impersonalist, the fire altar of sacrifice is the Supreme Brahman, and the offering is the self being consumed by the fire of Brahman. The Kṛṣṇa conscious person, like Arjuna, however, sacrifices everything for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, and thus all his material possessions as well as his own self-everything-is sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa. Thus, he is the first-class yogī; but he does not lose his individual existence.
  2. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    Jada Bharata was playing deaf and dumb so no he was leading kirtana or anything. The point of AM's comment was to indicate that he did not want to become entangled in material or religious life and instead wanted only to remember the Lord. This is why he had no interest in the sacred thread ceremony. Some fanatics will always point out some tiny dark spot on the radiant full Moon but the wise will simply treat them like an annoying mosquito buzzing in their ear while trying to listen to some Krishna Katha.
  3. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    What rituals are needed? There are the standard practices of sadhana bhakti-yoga but that is not what is being talked about in the above verse and purport. Making attempts to go to heaven or to gain wealth, education, children ect. is never necessary. But such practices that aim at these goals by respecting the higher authorites is better than not respecting the higher authorities. They are regulating and purifying. But one can come to understand they are not needed at anytime for the soul and he can substitute bhakti-sadhana at any point as there are no purifying process needed for the chanting of the Lord's names. Even sadhana bhakti rituals become unnecessary as one develops spontaneous loving service. The question of how does one know is not really applicable because it is not an intellectual choice. You practice till you actually fall in love with Krishna and then the love takes over. Sahaji's are those that assume prematurely they are on this level. We should always try to stick to the standard practices and see the higher levels of devotion as a goal that lies ahead. Some devotees as acartyas keep up the practices even when they have no more need to practice just to teach others by example. As for myself I have never been determined enough to keep up the most basic levels of practice so I know I am below the level of vaidhi bhakti. Here is a perfect answer to that question.
  4. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    Whoa bro!!!! I didn't see this sentence first time through. This is way way off track melvin. I know you are generous by nature but let's not get crazy. :eek3::eek3::eek3::eek3::eek3:
  5. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Yeah but that has nothing to do with the context that we were talking in.
  6. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Krishna says everything. The modes of nature are also Krishna. A rock on the ground is also Krishna in one sense.
  7. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    Great example AM. I know you are attracted to avadhutas. Me too. And how about the brahmanas who were too busy with their animal sacrificing duties to give foodstuff to Krishna and the cowhed boys who became hungry while playing in the Vrndavana forest and approached them. The wives of the brahmanas became spontaneously attracted to Krishna and His friends and gladly fed them.
  8. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Yes but not just time, everything.
  9. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    You are right. There is only one fundamental truth which is the basis of everything and that is Krishna. But here is the kicker; Krishna is variegated as everything and everyone and at the same time independently existing as Himself apart from everything. All states of being-be they of goodness, passion or ignorance-are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything-but I am independent. I am not under the modes of this material nature. BG 7.12
  10. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    We know we have a brain primate through several sources. We have been taught by medical science we have a brain and what some of it's basic functions are. Those functions we can witness in our daily lives. So we have heard from authorities on the matter and it is verifiable by us. We can observe the brains of those that have died or those undergoing brain surgery. I have some interesting material on anatomy. One is called the color atlas of anatomy and it describes every detail of the bodt in photgraph. Not illustration but color photography. I also have a series of VHS tapes on anatomy that covers everything in the human form and that was done but taping corpses as the teacher shows the viewer what he is looking at. Yes bodies have a brain. This is not a good track to argue from. It only can lead one place and that is mayavada philosohy. The end point of this arguement is since you can't verify anything through your senses that leaves you with only one verifiable object and that is yourself. I mean how can you prove there is anyone else on this forum except yourself. We might just all be projections of your mind, just dream characters in your great cosmic dream. This is why impersonalists ultimately take to chanting So Ham, I am or Iam That etc. Impersonalism is a pitifull lonely philosophy.
  11. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    I know I have a brain. The evidence is there is the fact that I can see at all. I also know when the wind is blowing outside even when I am inside because I can see the effects of the wind on the trees.
  12. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    TRANSLATION Bg 10 11 Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance. PURPORT When Lord Caitanya was in Benares promulgating the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, thousands of people were following Him. Prakāśānanda, a very influential and learned scholar in Benares at that time, derided Lord Caitanya for being a sentimentalist. Sometimes philosophers criticize the devotees because they think that most of the devotees are in the darkness of ignorance and are philosophically naive sentimentalists. Actually that is not the fact. There are very, very learned scholars who have put forward the philosophy of devotion, but even if a devotee does not take advantage of their literatures or of his spiritual master, if he is sincere in his devotional service he is helped by Kṛṣṇa Himself within his heart. So the sincere devotee engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be without knowledge. The only qualification is that one carry out devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The modern philosophers think that without discriminating one cannot have pure knowledge. For them this answer is given by the Supreme Lord: those who are engaged in pure devotional service, even though they be without sufficient education and even without sufficient knowledge of the Vedic principles, are still helped by the Supreme God, as stated in this verse. The Lord tells Arjuna that basically there is no possibility of understanding the Supreme Truth, the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, simply by speculating, for the Supreme Truth is so great that it is not possible to understand Him or to achieve Him simply by making a mental effort. Man can go on speculating for several millions of years, and if he is not devoted, if he is not a lover of the Supreme Truth, he will never understand Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Truth. Only by devotional service is the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa, pleased, and by His inconceivable energy He can reveal Himself to the heart of the pure devotee. The pure devotee always has Kṛṣṇa within his heart; therefore he is just like the sun that dissipates the darkness of ignorance. This is the special mercy rendered to the pure devotee by Kṛṣṇa. Due to the contamination of material association, through many, many millions of births, one's heart is always covered with the dust of materialism, but when one engages in devotional service and constantly chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, the dust quickly clears, and one is elevated to the platform of pure knowledge. The ultimate goal of Viṣṇu can be attained only by this chant and by devotional service, and not by mental speculation or argument. The pure devotee does not have to worry about the necessities of life; he need not be anxious because when he removes the darkness from his heart, everything is provided automatically by the Supreme Lord, for He is pleased by the loving devotional service of the devotee. This is the essence of the Gītā's teachings. By studying Bhagavad-gītā, one can become a completely surrendered soul to the Supreme Lord and engage himself in pure devotional service. As the Lord takes charge, one becomes completely free from all kinds of materialistic endeavors.
  13. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Nothing wrong with doubt and healthy skeptcism. The Bhagavad gita is about Arjuna clearng away his doubts. But he did not rely upon his own mind and senses to do this. He had his doubts cleared by approaching God Himself. This is the process. In the doctor example above primate has the third person clearing his doubt about the need for an operation by investigating perwonally examining the patient. But what qualifies him for making a medical evaluation? How can he trust his own opinion? Only the Lord Himself is the clearer of doubts.Only the Lord grants knowledge to an individual. Even an atheist is dependent on God for everything he knows. Without God we could not even remeber our own names.
  14. theist

    Becoming indifferent to the vedas

    Very nice. Where can I find that statement by Narada Melvin. It is a nice citation.
  15. theist

    What`s in a name?

    Answers to these questions are already in my recent posts.
  16. theist

    What`s in a name?

    Well we talk about hell in different context. There are heavenly planets and hellish planets. But from a closer inspection we see that if someone is on a heavenly planet but he is forgetfull of Krishna he is actually in hell although maybe enjoying all the amenities of heavenly birth like long life relative freedom from disease and discomfort, covorting with naked sweet young things in celestial pools of water etc. We generally think of hell as intense physical suffering like being nailed to a cross or beaten through 21 marketplaces or having your demonic father try to kill you in so many horrible ways. But the fact is neither Lord Jesus Christ, Haridas Thakur or Prahlada Maharaja was in hell while under the attack of demons. It's always a question of consciousness and not locality or external circumstance.
  17. Yeah that was good Om Hari. She is a great ambassador for a vegan lifestyle. Wish I had been brought up vegan but I was born in 1952. Everyone was conditioned to think without meat three times a day you would die To go vegan makes a wonderful difference in the individual. The practice of ahimsa to the best of one's ability is a very important thing in developing God consciousness.
  18. theist

    What`s in a name?

    Forgetfulness of Krishna is hell. The more we remember Krishna the more we attain freedom from hell.
  19. Methylcobalimin is vegan. Bacteria is the source for b-12 and not meat or plants. Bacteria can be used to create b-12 outside of an animal body. The details of production I am not clear on but it is sold and use advocated by vegan societies. Any healthfood store will sell it. Or through the web just google vegan and methylcobalimin. No reason not to take it. Many good reasons to take it daily.
  20. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Comparing apples and oranges Melvin.
  21. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Winning in a discussion about God means learning something about God. The positions of so-called winner and loser from the material point of view is meaningless.
  22. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Well I think you know my approach to the issue by now. I accept the Sun and sunshine example as giving the gist of the situation and the rest will have to come by revelation from Krishna in the future if I am so fortunate. I don't feel more words and concepts will bring any new enlightenment on the issue.
  23. theist

    God unlimitedly complex?

    Yes I can see where I could have worded that better. What I meant to say was that through scientificly logic and theories some scientists have come to understand that there must be some great unified field of universal energy and that this energy is the immediate cause of the material manifestation. Not that we can actually understand the Brahman through logic but we can understand that the Brahman exists. Sorry for the confusion
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