theist

BTG gets San Francisco Ratha Yatra Date Wrong! BY: GABRIEL FOLEY Jul 14, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA (SUN) — Dear Prabhus, The Back to Godhead Magazine has made a major mistake. They have printed that the San Francisco Ratha Yatra is on Sunday the 26th. This is NOT correct! The date of the San Francisco Ratha Yatra is on SATURDAY JULY 25th 2009 Here is the invitation . PS. We hope that the editors of the BTG issue a statement on their website correcting their mistake.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with the context that we were talking in.

Krishna says everything. The modes of nature are also Krishna. A rock on the ground is also Krishna in one sense.

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Great example AM. I know you are attracted to avadhutas. Me too. And how about the brahmanas who were too busy with their animal sacrificing duties to give foodstuff to Krishna and the cowhed boys who became hungry while playing in the Vrndavana forest and approached them. The wives of the brahmanas became spontaneously attracted to Krishna and His friends and gladly fed them.

Yes but not just time, everything.

You are right. There is only one fundamental truth which is the basis of everything and that is Krishna. But here is the kicker; Krishna is variegated as everything and everyone and at the same time independently existing as Himself apart from everything. All states of being-be they of goodness, passion or ignorance-are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything-but I am independent. I am not under the modes of this material nature. BG 7.12

We know we have a brain primate through several sources. We have been taught by medical science we have a brain and what some of it's basic functions are. Those functions we can witness in our daily lives. So we have heard from authorities on the matter and it is verifiable by us. We can observe the brains of those that have died or those undergoing brain surgery. I have some interesting material on anatomy. One is called the color atlas of anatomy and it describes every detail of the bodt in photgraph. Not illustration but color photography. I also have a series of VHS tapes on anatomy that covers everything in the human form and that was done but taping corpses as the teacher shows the viewer what he is looking at. Yes bodies have a brain. This is not a good track to argue from. It only can lead one place and that is mayavada philosohy. The end point of this arguement is since you can't verify anything through your senses that leaves you with only one verifiable object and that is yourself. I mean how can you prove there is anyone else on this forum except yourself. We might just all be projections of your mind, just dream characters in your great cosmic dream. This is why impersonalists ultimately take to chanting So Ham, I am or Iam That etc. Impersonalism is a pitifull lonely philosophy.

I know I have a brain. The evidence is there is the fact that I can see at all. I also know when the wind is blowing outside even when I am inside because I can see the effects of the wind on the trees.

TRANSLATION Bg 10 11 Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance. PURPORT When Lord Caitanya was in Benares promulgating the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, thousands of people were following Him. Prakāśānanda, a very influential and learned scholar in Benares at that time, derided Lord Caitanya for being a sentimentalist. Sometimes philosophers criticize the devotees because they think that most of the devotees are in the darkness of ignorance and are philosophically naive sentimentalists. Actually that is not the fact. There are very, very learned scholars who have put forward the philosophy of devotion, but even if a devotee does not take advantage of their literatures or of his spiritual master, if he is sincere in his devotional service he is helped by Kṛṣṇa Himself within his heart. So the sincere devotee engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be without knowledge. The only qualification is that one carry out devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The modern philosophers think that without discriminating one cannot have pure knowledge. For them this answer is given by the Supreme Lord: those who are engaged in pure devotional service, even though they be without sufficient education and even without sufficient knowledge of the Vedic principles, are still helped by the Supreme God, as stated in this verse. The Lord tells Arjuna that basically there is no possibility of understanding the Supreme Truth, the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, simply by speculating, for the Supreme Truth is so great that it is not possible to understand Him or to achieve Him simply by making a mental effort. Man can go on speculating for several millions of years, and if he is not devoted, if he is not a lover of the Supreme Truth, he will never understand Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Truth. Only by devotional service is the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa, pleased, and by His inconceivable energy He can reveal Himself to the heart of the pure devotee. The pure devotee always has Kṛṣṇa within his heart; therefore he is just like the sun that dissipates the darkness of ignorance. This is the special mercy rendered to the pure devotee by Kṛṣṇa. Due to the contamination of material association, through many, many millions of births, one's heart is always covered with the dust of materialism, but when one engages in devotional service and constantly chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, the dust quickly clears, and one is elevated to the platform of pure knowledge. The ultimate goal of Viṣṇu can be attained only by this chant and by devotional service, and not by mental speculation or argument. The pure devotee does not have to worry about the necessities of life; he need not be anxious because when he removes the darkness from his heart, everything is provided automatically by the Supreme Lord, for He is pleased by the loving devotional service of the devotee. This is the essence of the Gītā's teachings. By studying Bhagavad-gītā, one can become a completely surrendered soul to the Supreme Lord and engage himself in pure devotional service. As the Lord takes charge, one becomes completely free from all kinds of materialistic endeavors.

Nothing wrong with doubt and healthy skeptcism. The Bhagavad gita is about Arjuna clearng away his doubts. But he did not rely upon his own mind and senses to do this. He had his doubts cleared by approaching God Himself. This is the process. In the doctor example above primate has the third person clearing his doubt about the need for an operation by investigating perwonally examining the patient. But what qualifies him for making a medical evaluation? How can he trust his own opinion? Only the Lord Himself is the clearer of doubts.Only the Lord grants knowledge to an individual. Even an atheist is dependent on God for everything he knows. Without God we could not even remeber our own names.

Very nice. Where can I find that statement by Narada Melvin. It is a nice citation.

TRANSLATION Bg 2.52 When your intelligence has passed out of the dense forest of delusion, you shall become indifferent to all that has been heard and all that is to be heard. PURPORT There are many good examples in the lives of the great devotees of the Lord of those who became indifferent to the rituals of the Vedas simply by devotional service to the Lord. When a person factually understands Kṛṣṇa and his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, he naturally becomes completely indifferent to the rituals of fruitive activities, even though an experienced brāhmaṇa. Śrī Mādhavendra Purī, a great devotee and ācārya in the line of the devotees, says: sandhyā-vandana bhadram astu bhavato bhoḥ snāna tubhyaṁ namo bho devāḥ pitaraś ca tarpaṇa-vidhau nāhaṁ kṣamaḥ kṣamyatām yatra kvāpi niṣadya yādava-kulottamasya kaṁsa-dviṣaḥ smāraṁ smāram aghaṁ harāmi tad alaṁ manye kim anyena me. "O Lord, in my prayers three times a day, all glory to You. Bathing, I offer my obeisances unto You. O demigods! O forefathers! Please excuse me for my inability to offer you my respects. Now wherever I sit, I can remember the great descendant of the Yadu dynasty [Kṛṣṇa], the enemy of Kaṁsa, and thereby I can free myself from all sinful bondage. I think this is sufficient for me." The Vedic rites and rituals are imperative for neophytes: comprehending all kinds of prayer three times a day, taking a bath early in the morning, offering respects to the forefathers, etc. But, when one is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and is engaged in His transcendental loving service, one becomes indifferent to all these regulative principles because he has already attained perfection. If one can reach the platform of understanding by service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, he has no longer to execute different types of penances and sacrifices as recommended in revealed scriptures. And, similarly, if one has not understood that the purpose of the Vedas is to reach Kṛṣṇa and simply engages in the rituals, etc., then he is uselessly wasting time in such engagements. Persons in Kṛṣṇa consciousness transcend the limit of śabda-brahma, or the range of the Vedas and Upaniṣads.

Ohio.com - Price of milk may double Price of milk may double Rising feed costs, surplus of cows will force farmers to cull herds by 103,000 By Jeff Wilson Bloomberg News Published on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 Dino Giacomazzi, whose great-grandfather started the Giacomazzi Dairy in Hanford, Calif., in 1893, said he had no choice but to sell 100 cows, or 11 percent of his herd, in the past four months. Rising feed prices and a world surplus meant it cost as much as $17 to produce $10 of milk. ''Producers are in an absolute state of panic,'' said Giacomazzi, 40. ''To spend 100 years building a dairy business and see much of that equity disappear in a year is very troubling.'' Farmers plan to shift the pain to consumers. The National Milk Producers Federation in Arlington, Va., will pay dairies to slaughter 103,000 U.S. cows in coming months. Milk futures prices will double next year to a record $23 per 100 pounds as the herd shrinks by 171,000 head, the most since 1989, said Michael Swanson, a senior economist at Wells Fargo & Co., the largest lender to U.S. farmers. The cuts will lead to the first two-year drop in output in four decades and higher prices in 2010 for butter, cheese, milk and the nonfat dry powder that's a benchmark for global exports, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture forecasts. Futures for delivery in September 2010 are trading about 56 percent above current prices on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Retail butter prices might rise above the record of $3.937 a pound and Cheddar cheese might top $5.097 a pound, according to Jerry Dryer, 65, editor of the industry newsletter Dairy & Food Market Analyst in Delray Beach, Fla. Farmers are culling herds because exports plunged 26 percent in the first four months of the year, supplies rose and the cost of corn, the primary feed ingredient, averaged almost $4 a bushel. ''No one is making money producing milk,'' Wells Fargo's Swanson said. ''The milk price remains well below the total cost of production.'' U.S. output increased to a record 16.73 billion pounds in May as cows on average produced 1,804 pounds each, the most ever, the USDA said June 18. A gallon weighs 8.6 pounds. Wholesale milk fell 51 percent in the past year and reached $9.93 per 100 pounds on June 19 on the CME. The USDA forecasts average cash prices this year will drop 34 percent, the most since the agency began keeping the data in 1980. While corn fell to $4.195 last week from a record $7.9925 a bushel in June 2008, it's still 54 percent above the decade average. In California, the largest milk-producing state, dairies lost $1.07 per 100 pounds in April, compared with profit of $11.23 in July 2007, based on feed costs and milk prices, USDA data show. In January, the state was the most unprofitable in at least six years of record-keeping. It takes about 24 months and $1,600 to feed and care for a dairy heifer before it starts producing milk. The price of a young cow ready for milking has dropped by half in the past year to $1,200, he said. U.S. milk production will fall 1.3 percent to 187.5 billion pounds this year from last year's record, and to 186.4 billion in 2010, the first back-to-back decline since 1969, the USDA said June 20. Prices probably will rise at least 25 percent by the second half of 2010 as production slows and consumption rebounds with an improving economy next year, said Kelvin Wickham, managing director of global trade at Fonterra Cooperative Group Ltd. of Auckland, New Zealand, the world's largest dairy exporter. ''We do expect prices to trend higher toward the back half of the year,'' said Jack Callahan, the chief financial officer at Dallas-based Dean Foods Inc., the biggest U.S. processor and parent of Reiter Dairy operations in Akron. Dairy cows feed at the Milky Way Dairy farm near Visalia, California, (Phil Hawkins/Bloomberg News) Dino Giacomazzi, whose great-grandfather started the Giacomazzi Dairy in Hanford, Calif., in 1893, said he had no choice but to sell 100 cows, or 11 percent of his herd, in the past four months. Rising feed prices and a world surplus meant it cost as much as $17 to produce $10 of milk. ''Producers are in an absolute state of panic,'' said Giacomazzi, 40. ''To spend 100 years building a dairy business and see much of that equity disappear in a year is very troubling.'' Farmers plan to shift the pain to consumers. The National Milk Producers Federation in Arlington, Va., will pay dairies to slaughter 103,000 U.S. cows in coming months. Milk futures prices will double next year to a record $23 per 100 pounds as the herd shrinks by 171,000 head, the most since 1989, said Michael Swanson, a senior economist at Wells Fargo & Co., the largest lender to U.S. farmers. The cuts will lead to the first two-year drop in output in four decades and higher prices in 2010 for butter, cheese, milk and the nonfat dry powder that's a benchmark for global exports, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture forecasts. Futures for delivery in September 2010 are trading about 56 percent above current prices on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Retail butter prices might rise above the record of $3.937 a pound and Cheddar cheese might top $5.097 a pound, according to Jerry Dryer, 65, editor of the industry newsletter Dairy & Food Market Analyst in Delray Beach, Fla. Farmers are culling herds because exports plunged 26 percent in the first four months of the year, supplies rose and the cost of corn, the primary feed ingredient, averaged almost $4 a bushel. ''No one is making money producing milk,'' Wells Fargo's Swanson said. ''The milk price remains well below the total cost of production.'' U.S. output increased to a record 16.73 billion pounds in May as cows on average produced 1,804 pounds each, the most ever, the USDA said June 18. A gallon weighs 8.6 pounds. Wholesale milk fell 51 percent in the past year and reached $9.93 per 100 pounds on June 19 on the CME. The USDA forecasts average cash prices this year will drop 34 percent, the most since the agency began keeping the data in 1980. While corn fell to $4.195 last week from a record $7.9925 a bushel in June 2008, it's still 54 percent above the decade average. In California, the largest milk-producing state, dairies lost $1.07 per 100 pounds in April, compared with profit of $11.23 in July 2007, based on feed costs and milk prices, USDA data show. In January, the state was the most unprofitable in at least six years of record-keeping. It takes about 24 months and $1,600 to feed and care for a dairy heifer before it starts producing milk. The price of a young cow ready for milking has dropped by half in the past year to $1,200, he said. U.S. milk production will fall 1.3 percent to 187.5 billion pounds this year from last year's record, and to 186.4 billion in 2010, the first back-to-back decline since 1969, the USDA said June 20. Prices probably will rise at least 25 percent by the second half of 2010 as production slows and consumption rebounds with an improving economy next year, said Kelvin Wickham, managing director of global trade at Fonterra Cooperative Group Ltd. of Auckland, New Zealand, the world's largest dairy exporter. ''We do expect prices to trend higher toward the back half of the year,'' said Jack Callahan, the chief financial officer at Dallas-based Dean Foods Inc., the biggest U.S. processor and parent of Reiter Dairy operations in Akron.

Answers to these questions are already in my recent posts.

Well we talk about hell in different context. There are heavenly planets and hellish planets. But from a closer inspection we see that if someone is on a heavenly planet but he is forgetfull of Krishna he is actually in hell although maybe enjoying all the amenities of heavenly birth like long life relative freedom from disease and discomfort, covorting with naked sweet young things in celestial pools of water etc. We generally think of hell as intense physical suffering like being nailed to a cross or beaten through 21 marketplaces or having your demonic father try to kill you in so many horrible ways. But the fact is neither Lord Jesus Christ, Haridas Thakur or Prahlada Maharaja was in hell while under the attack of demons. It's always a question of consciousness and not locality or external circumstance.

Yeah that was good Om Hari. She is a great ambassador for a vegan lifestyle. Wish I had been brought up vegan but I was born in 1952. Everyone was conditioned to think without meat three times a day you would die To go vegan makes a wonderful difference in the individual. The practice of ahimsa to the best of one's ability is a very important thing in developing God consciousness.

Forgetfulness of Krishna is hell. The more we remember Krishna the more we attain freedom from hell.

Methylcobalimin is vegan. Bacteria is the source for b-12 and not meat or plants. Bacteria can be used to create b-12 outside of an animal body. The details of production I am not clear on but it is sold and use advocated by vegan societies. Any healthfood store will sell it. Or through the web just google vegan and methylcobalimin. No reason not to take it. Many good reasons to take it daily.

Comparing apples and oranges Melvin.

Winning in a discussion about God means learning something about God. The positions of so-called winner and loser from the material point of view is meaningless.

Well I think you know my approach to the issue by now. I accept the Sun and sunshine example as giving the gist of the situation and the rest will have to come by revelation from Krishna in the future if I am so fortunate. I don't feel more words and concepts will bring any new enlightenment on the issue.

Yes I can see where I could have worded that better. What I meant to say was that through scientificly logic and theories some scientists have come to understand that there must be some great unified field of universal energy and that this energy is the immediate cause of the material manifestation. Not that we can actually understand the Brahman through logic but we can understand that the Brahman exists. Sorry for the confusion

Interesting but I fail to see how it relates to anything I said. You'll have to talk golf with gHari.

Brahman is not within the range of logic either. But logic can indicate or point to the reality. Words are not totally useless. Fir instance we can say God is unlimited. We may not be able to fully comprehend what unlimited is but we do know it means without limitations. Same with basis. I only mentioned it because you did right above. Don't worry I won't bug you any more over it.