thiruvengadam

hi Sephiroth, iam a registered member...i have noted quite a few of ur posts.....so can i ask about ur nationality and religion? it is not that i only like ppl of my type but iam just curious....this curiosity may be also out of respect for u.... i accept that to speak the truth i doesnt matters whether ur Indian or hindu....but for the sake of friendship, i ask hope my curiosity doesnt kill the cat... cheers Thiru just for ur info:iam not that guest who asked u this ques first....

well iam hearing this for the first time....no one ever told me such a thing and nor have i read such a exp any where.....can u pls provide some ref....?

i dont think Auspecious means good day.....Auspesious means some thing holy...of course it also means good (but u dont say auspecious for good day)...Auspecious means mangalam..... when one says 'its an Auspecious day' he actually means 'its a holy day' So one (Shiva's) name means His character while another (Vishnu's) means His duty. may be true.....lets see what others have to say on this

before i start this thread i would like to mention that this thread is not for debate about who is superior Shiva or Vishnu? this thread is only for discussing the meanings of the names of God and understand the real meaning of it and not mearly talk about stories.....kindly refrain from arrogan arguments....let not the silence be mistaken for weakness Shiva = Auspecious Vishnu = One who pervades every where now tell me which is not auspecious.....all that pervades is auspecious....and Gods graces (auspeciouness) pervades everything....thus Shiva=Vishnu (Auspeciousness pervades the whole creation) the namers were very careful and knowledgeable...look that the subtle truth the meanings implies.....

i think by saying "Shiva is the writter and Vishnu is the narrator" u actually mean Shiva is the author and Vishnu is the executor to execute what is written Shiva doesnt let down any of his devotees weather they are evil or good, But he is so smart also, He will grant the evil their wishes but he will also make it useless. He knew that the only way to destroy BhasmAsura is by giving him his boon. Shiva is the writer, and Vishnu narrates it. Take a look at this example, The CEO can grant you any position in a company, But when its time to terminate a employee the Human Resource does it ? So does that mean the CEO cant terminate anyone ? Its basically not his role ? The same applies to BhamAsura, its not Shivas role to destroy BhamAsura were well said....every thing has its place and every thing in its place... all the plays of Lord Shiva are called as Thiruvilayadal in tamil...it means the Divine play....they are not mere stories for pass time but they are morals to be cherished....they are concepts which God himself enacts for His deciples to understand.... the whole concept of Ganesh story to show that women has a word over her man....and that a child born should get the blessings and acknowledgement of all its relatives...if not for the beheading act Ganesh wound'nt have been the Ganesh He is now...He couldnt have become Vigna haran (remover of obstracles) He would'nt have become the first God to be respected...He would only have remained Gowri nandan and not as Vign Haran..... since Ganesh was born without the presence of Shiv, the world has to acknowledge him as Shiv putar....so the play was enacted...it is as simple as Ram asking Sita to go through an Agni Pariksha though He knew that His wife was pure....one might ask that even Kanda (famously called as Murugan in Tamil) was also born from Shiva without the union with the Goddess....but Murugan was born in front of all the Gods in the presence of PArvathi (unlike Ganesh who was born in the absence of Shiv).....cos Shiv is not different from Parvathi...that is what the whole concept of Ardanarishvarar is about.... and who is that gentle man who calls Shiv as a pervert (one who can't control his sexual urge)? It is Shiv and Shiv only who as conquired kama...it is Him who burnt kama deva to askes....and on the plea of kama's wife kama was given the formless life till the wedding of Shiv with Parvathi....dont forget that Shiva is the jogi of all yogis...its funny to think that a yogi couldnt control his senses...the point to be noted is that the two sons of Shiv-Parvathi were not Born as normal babies from the womb of the mother by the conventional way of the parent's union... there is a very famous proverb written by the great sage thiruvalluvar "yagavaraunum naa kaaka, kaavaakal sogaper sol eluku pattu" it means that who ever it be....have control over u tough (check what u say) for the one who fails to check what one says falls under the sin of wrong speech and yes there is one more way to speak..thatz an ironical way there is a difference when u say 'water pouring out' and 'water oozing out'...pouring means flowing out and oozing means leaking out.....sweetness of words is very important when u talk about ther Gods.... for the ones who understands tamil will understand the difference between the words maadu and pasu both the words refer to a cow....when one says maadu the harshness of the words is fell...there is no auspeciousness in the word maadu but when one says pasu the softness of the word is felt and one senses the auspiciousness the word..... it is the difference when u address Vishnu as 'The one with the shell in His hand' and 'The shell holding fellow'....both mean the same...that Vishnu has a Shell in his hand but the tone in which the words are spoken differs.... <h4>one should not only know</h4><h3> what to speak</h3> but should also know</h4> <h3>how to speak....</h3> its even more important to know how to speak than what to speak.... <font color="red">Om Nama Shivaya Sarvam Shivamayam Sarvam Shivathul Adakam </font color>

a very valid point....what say u ppl?

this world is really a magical place.... i was just wondering how one rotten apple could rotten all the rest and spoil the serenity of the atmosphere..... i take caution in replying to my own post so that i dont explicitly give a hit to the direction of my post the sinned is seen waking with clean hands for he is tactful but the pure get messed just for a slightest mistake.....well the reason is quite clear....a small black dot is very noticeable in a white background On this height of discussion i would like to present my humble opinion about what sort of debates the great of those days indulged..... they did indulge in great debates....not to prove others wrong but to prove themselves correct....for there was no ego in them and when one has no ego how can a second person be wrong and I alone be correct? it is indeed the definition of kaliyuga where one takes shelter of his mistakes under the cover of another.... what use is it to discussed when the minds are closed, what use is it for the music to play when they ears turn deaf, what use is it for the flower to blossom when the eyes refuse to open, what use is it for the meaning of the words when the words are themself jumbled, what use is it.....?

who told u that tamil pillais are sudras? O my Great God....when u have doubts about ur cast just stick on to it...dare not to include other castes of which u know nothing....just go to the Tamil Nadu caste committee listing and u will find the Saiva Pillais to be Forward.... dont ever make this blunder mistake of calling Tamil Pillais as Sudras..... They r great Shaivites.....V O chitambaram Pillai (famously called as 'kappal ootiya tamilan') a famous freedom fighter....look at his story and u will know the status of pillaivals.... The occupation of Pillais used to be in accounts...they were well educated and had high posts.....the Chief Minister of King Veerabandiya Kattabomman (another famous freedom fighter) was a Pillai....

dear Mr.Guest the quote u have quoted is actually not said by Om Nama Shivaya...indeed it was said by someone called Bindhu Madhav.... Mr.Om Nama Shivaya had only quoted Bindhu Madhav's words as u have tried to quote.... pls read the post carefully and in future avoid such blunder mistakes.....

it is indeed maya which makes man to stick to his preference and claim its superiority...the ego in man wont let him appreciate the good in others lest he shall become the second... what if Vishnu is greater or Shiva is greater...? Vaishnavites claim that all those who pray to other Gods will go to that God's sphere...and from there their journey will be directed to Vishu with the help of that sphere's God...so be it...why fight? let us pray to the God whom we rejoice...then it becomes that God's duty to lead to the ultimate (if there is a difference).... for one thing that no one holds a monopoly to God....the wise will know it but the fools will argue over it... if the argument brings us janana then let that argument be appreciated...but if the argument is to add fuel to the burning ego of man to claim superiority for those he holds dear most, then let that argument be dropped for it is an argument for the sake of argument and not for the sake af janana... few may claim that this argument is to enlighten others and bring others to the right path....but if this enlightenment is to be brought by killing what u hold dear, then i disown such an enlightenment...after all what do they mean by becoming enlightened? no one thought Budda to be enlightened...He got enlightened under the bogi tree...He disowned the Vedas yet was enlightened...what does this imply? the path to the absolute truth is not singularistic....few claim budda to be an avatar of Vishnu but let them prove it....in which veda where the avatars of Vishnu are spoken does Budda comes in...? Budda is only claimed to be an avatar but never proved....so is Shankara claimed to be an avatar of Shiva but again it is only been claimed.... those who 'claim' will get hurt and furiated if their claim is not accepted...its human nature but what validity is that claim of when it only remains a claim....amny even regard Jesus to be an avatar of Vishnu.... Budda (the claimed avatar of Vishnu) was born to mislead others? i have heard that God comes to earth only to lead others....how can He come to mislead others? has God taken a part time job of misleading?

Saivites and vaishnavites are in NO way indicative of what the spiritual world is like i would slightly differ here....being a saivite or vaishnavite is no wrong and i no way away from spiritual world for the marga they together follow is the bakthi marga...the problem only comes when the ppl of the 2 sects try to prove their supremacy over the other....true that shiva and vishnu are the same....but though 'The truth is one but sages see it in many forms'-RigVeda..... follow ur path and respect others.... i said saivites and vaishnavites are in the spirutual way for bakthi is one of the 4 ways to mukti and bakthi will lead to janana.....bakthi and janana are somuch connected...one will lead to the other and one is the source of the other... thiru

every thing has a meaning ok.... but Shivam=? ParamIshvar = SupremeLord ok but it has been used to address Shiva many times...what say u? {The blessed Vishnu said: "I salute Mahadeva. Salutations to Thee. O Thou that art eternal origin of all things. The Rishis say that Thou art the Lord of the Vedas. The righteous say that Thou art Penance, Thou art Sattwa, Thou art Rajas, Thou art Tamas, and Thou art truth…….} It shows the greatness of Lord Krishna Vasudeva, the Paramatman. He does not have to worship anyone but He becomes an example to others by worshipping His own Bhakta. Bindhu no one can entertain me other than u....when Vishnu prays to Shiva then its the greatness of Vishnu but when Shiva prays to Vishnu its not Shiva's greatness....o my God i just cant stop laughing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif....very funny...it only shows ur mentality Bindhu..... expecting ur reply for Vishnu's yoga nidra and ur reply for Lingasktakam

thx for complimenting my name....yes iam a pure Tamilian (sarvam Shivamayam) and thx for ue quick lesson on hinduism....was just wondering who needs it more than me...and guess what...ur name poped up immediately They all refer to Lord Krishna Paramatma Krishna also refers to Shiva...Vishnu refers to Shiva was i frothing with anger? i though i was laughing till tears come from my eyes....Saivites dont claim Siva is Vishnu and Vishnu is Siva...saivites dont claim anything for they know that ever thing is Shivam...if u dont know the diff. b/w Shivam and Shiva then its ur ignorance....is u dont know Shivam then u dont know a Lingam... and if u know Shivam then u will aslo know why do our Puranas speak of Siva (with a pitchfork, water oozing out of his Jata, a half-moon on his head, etc) and Lord Vishnu (Shanka-Chakra-Gada-Padma Dhari, benign and sweet)? ooooooooooooo u call shiva as a demi god and then say "I have never ever insulted Siva" Another Advaitin from the school of Appayya Dikshitar talking. I like you a lot, my good friend Tiruvengadam. May Lord Krishna bless you! i like u too and thats why iam reply to all ur folly...and for ur kind info until i camr to this forum i didnt even know Appayya Dikshitar now coming to our discussion my dear Bindhu u have not answered many of my questions... if u just read through my posts again u will find that many of my questions are unanswered...just to cite one...u have not given me the anser to my question 'towards whom is Vishnu in yoga nidra?' reat after u reply...and dont forget to reply for that quote from Lingashtagam.....pls dont say that the lingam in lingashtakam was not Shiva but Vishnu....pls for God's sake give me a break

before i reply to ur post 'Now I have a second combatant (Grin)! ' a few lines from Lingashtakam brahmamurArisurArchitalingam nirmalabAshitasSobitalingam| janmaladukkavinASakalingam tat praNamAmi sadASivalingam|| and if u wonder what they mean....just look down i bow before that Sadashivalinga, which is adored by Brahma, Vishnu, and other gods: which is hailed by pure words and which destroys the cycle of birth and death. is this enough or do u want more?

Bindhu Bindu...u seriously make me laught....thanks for the entertainment iam not a college kid...and by the way when u refer to the word 'kid' i just wonder who is a kid?....u might not be in college but the pity is that u talk like a kid....no wonder Om NamaShivaya address u as Bindhu Baby and mind u a college kid can show great knowledge than u....ThiruJananaSambanthar was only 3 when he sang Devaram (i think u might not be familiar with Devaram.....one has to be bless to know about it... it think u r a Tamilian) just for the sake of ur curiousity iam 22(turning 23 this month end)...working as a Software Engg....at Bangalore....i hail from Coimbatore (its in Tamil Nadu)...hope this would have made u happy curiosity kills the cat

sorry to have posted the post 'indeed to be appriciated ' without signing in...actually in a haste to reply to guest22 i didnt notice that i have not logged in.... BindhuMadhav it is not Om NamaShivaya who is mistaken but its u....when he means grace he didnt mean the grace word of the Judeo-christian but the hindu perspective of the fruit one gets due to kis karma.... for eg: people say 'he sings with a grace' 'he dances with a grace'...from where does one gets this grace? the answer most say that 'its God gifted'....or 'hardwork' lets not talk about hard work for its not exactly to with spirituality...coming to 'God's gift'...will God gift u something just like that? on what basis do God gives His gifts? the answer is very simple...karma...based on ur karma it is decided where, when , how and with what all ur born...due to ur karma u get ur gifts and its due to karma u get ur curses (vethi-fate, by saying fate i dont point the results of ur try, but i point to the situation in which u try...i believe that karma will only determine the situation and one's action in that situation is a act of the self doing which he makes he new karma....thats why in tamil there is a proverb that states vethi-fate can be won by the mathi-mind)

very true...other persons childishness, anger, disrespect and othere uncilvil things are a bait to a person on the path of knowledge....u fall for it and u get off-line but after all iam an ordinary human being and i do fall a prey for such baits sometimes..... anyway that was a good post

One definition of criticism: that which you perceive in another, that is but a reflection of yourself. (source unknown). good things dont need their source....they are accepted for what they are urs friendly, Thiru

with great respect i accept ur criticism but on the same hand the way i delt with BindhuMadav is due to the level of intolerance this person showed on other threads.....and i would be plesed if u could qoute from my post the places where i have not been civil....u might quote the words Bindhu baby (these words were been quoted about Bindhu by someone else) but it is what he has earned....if one behaves childishly then it is the name he earns....the level of civil behavior dependes on what is being reciprocated....as i already told..what u sow so shall u reap....but do feel free to point my mistakes...it is in criticism that a person grows...

Srimad Bhagavatha Purana states it clearly, as does Sri Tulasidas's Ramacharita Manas. Where Lord Vishnu is physically present, every other god is a demigod quote it from Bhagavatham and let us see what exactly it implies (for ur not very good in interpretition) Well, you are wrong. I have not only said Lord Krishna is Maheshvara (Great Lord) but also Parameshvara (Supreme Lord). There is none other than Lord Krishna. as far as i know Mahesvara and Parameshvara are the adjectives for Shiva.....it has become a common thing for u ppl to claim all the glory of Shiva to Vishnu....when some great sage talks about Shiva u say 'no no he actully talks about Vishnu and not Shiva'....enough of ur childishness You have provided a whole lot of information without understanding or contributing any original idea. look who is saying what.....hey grow up and prove those statements from RV wrong (if u have guts).... If you are in love with Siva and you cannot go past Siva's image of a Yogi meditating on Sriman Narayana, then so be it. But don't say I did not warn you. Srimad Bhagavad-Gita admonishes people from worshipping Kshudra-Devatas although, unfortunately Lord Krishna does not define a Kshudra-Devata. Here-in comes the difficulty. Which is why worshipping Lord Krishna in his beautiful human form is the best way. That way, you won't go wrong. On the other hand, if one wants to meditate on Sriman Narayana (Parama Purusha), that is OK too. so do i warn u...seeing Shiva inferior to Vishnu is a great sin...Shiva's heart is Vishnu and Vishnu's heart is Shiva.....let u not say that none stopped u from ur folly... Also, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita states that people with Asuri-character worship Kshudra Devatas. Whom do the Asuras worship generally? Siva oh....the devas worshipped shiva many times ...are they asuras then? many sages have prayed to Shiva...are they asuras? then for whom has the Maha Mirthinjaya Manthra written? the asuras have worshipped Brahma many times.....so who is Brahma? is he Gos of asuras? and more over who created asuras if not for God himself? if God has created everything then all that has been created by Him pray to Him....so the asuras also pray..... All the quotes you have provided from the Vedas are wonderful but all that can be set aside in front of Lord Hari. thats what i have always called ur fooly.....every thing said about Shiva, u very easily claim to be that of vishnu... may be i should handle a different approach...next time u qoute anything from any text, i should be saying it only talks about Shiva and not Vishnu....well iam going to do it next time..... Poof! That shows your knowledge. Lord Vishnu is not asleep, He is in Yoga-Nidra. all ur posts have already shown us ur knowledge... u ppl ask to whom is shiva meditating to? now i ask towards whom is Vishnu in yoga nidra? dont make a fool of urself by seeing Shiva and Vishnu seperately.....

another rebel? do u know who a rebel is? well if iam a rebel to u then dont forget ur a reble to me....well how can i expect u to understand things for u are the person who calls others fool...so u must be a very wise sage.... and again i know that u dont understand the meaning of what is implied and can only talk about ur own opinions....the intension of my previous post was just to make clear that Shiva is not a mortal who is born lived and so died...so the quote though right is not applicable to Shiva(and the whole thread is only about Shiva and Vishnu and not whether Ram and Krishna are forms of Vishnu...when i said no saivite will equate a born to Vishnu i didnt consider Ram and Krishn...its u who has now given room for this controversy)and that quote of Shyam (to whom u completely agree) " None who ever lived or yet to be born will equal or surpass the Mahima of VishNu " . holds absolutely true....i never wanted to pull in Ram and krishn....its has always been ur folly (note: folly is not calling a person fool, folly is a person's foolishness...)to misinterpret one more thing...if u completely agree with that Shyam then u also accept that quote " None who ever lived or yet to be born will equal or surpass the Mahima of VishNu " . so its ur responsibility to prove how Ram and Krishna dont fit into this category....according to the quote it states 'none who ever lived'...now Ram and Krishn lived in this earth...so prove urself...to have put urself into the trap...either state the quote wrong or say that Ram and Krishna are inferior to Vishnu (i know that talking about inferiority and superiority gives u a lot of pleasure)

completely agree with u radhekrisna except for supreme lord part....there is no absolute supremacy for all is Him and how can He be superior or inferior to Himself? Aham Brahmasme

ofcourse this is more than enough -- A Rg vedic hymn says " <font color="red"> None who ever lived or yet to be born will equal or surpass the Mahima of VishNu </font color> " . i believe the above is more than enough. --- <font color="red"> just for ur info....shiva was never born and he never lived to die....and nor will He be born (unlike mortals) </font color> so where do u lead us? no saivite ever compared a born, lived and died person equal to Vishnu and nor will they compare anyone to be born with Visnu....so whom do u oppose and to whom do u contradict? my dear get urself clear and get to know the meanings of Vedas clearly...the knowledege is not got by mearly reading the lines....knowledge is only got when u read inbetween lines.....now dont ask me what reading inbetween lines is.... Thiru

one can only take a horse to the pond...drinking water or not is in the hands of the horse....talk all what u want but remember that by talking in ur manner only proves that ur full of ego, whether shiva is supreme or Vishnu is supreme is another issue, what should really concern u is that ru eligible for mukti in this life.....for sure ur not eligible for u have not come over ur anger and ego.....let alone the question of supremacy......Ragavendra has never called Shiva as a minor God nor has any realised souls though they are Vishnu devotees.....they only said that they personally prefered the Vishnu form of the One God Brahman..... 'The truth is one but the sages see it in many forms'-RigVeda.....what say u? if u really want to challenge me then explain this quote from Rig Veda and then proceed.....but i should warn u....any mis interpretation of these words and u will only show ur ignorance.....for these are the words that dissolve all the differences and makes Sanathana Dharma stand unique and great.... 'of rudra iam Shankar'-Gita

i do accept with all what u have said...that how much ever one reads Gita with a fixed mindset then he is limiting the goodness what Gita gives....but if u carefulling read ur words then u can find that u also fall under the same category by referring to krishna as Supreme deity....Krishna makes it were clear that He is Bramhan..when he talks about Brahman then it becomes very clear that all is one God......how can any God not be Brahman...? if u deny the concept of Brahman then why should krishna use the term brahman?...when krishna spoke gita he did talk as the 8th avatar of vishnu but He spoke gita as Brahman....Shiva is brahman for that instance and so is Brahma.....when He creates He is Brahma, when He protects He is Vishnu (krisna) and when he dissolves He is Shiva.....