abhi_the_great

Happy Happy Gaura Poornima to all.

Kalki is predicted for killing the miscreants, establishing dharma, coming on a white horse, having a sword, born in Sambala in a brahmin family and son of Vishnu Yasha. Kalki is expected at the end of Kali Yuga, ie after 400,000 yrs. Can there be a mistake in the calculation of time for all the Indian astrologers together. Astronomy and astrology were highly developed fields in ancient India.

Pls tell me if atleast one of this point is matching with the personality mentioned above.

I give due respect for his wonderful ability to create nectar from his icon. I give due respects for his interest and determination in spreading the Sanatana Dharma far and wide.

Unfortunately, there are ends which do not neatly tie up here. When one does not object of himself being called baghawan, then he shd clearly meet the specifications of that Bhagavan as mentioned in the scriptures. This is clearly lacking.

Abhi

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-26-2002).]

Kalki is predicted for killing the miscreants, establishing dharma, coming on a white horse, having a sword, born in Sambala in a brahmin family and son of Vishnu Yasha. Kalki is expected at the end of Kali Yuga, ie after 400,000 yrs. Can there be a mistake in the calculation of time for all the Indian astrologers together. Astronomy and astrology were highly developed fields in ancient India.

Pls tell me if atleast one of this point is matching with the personality mentioned above.

I give due respect for his wonderful ability to create nectar from his icon. I give due respects for his interest and determination in spreading the Sanatana Dharma far and wide.

Unfortunately, there are ends which do not neatly tie up here. When one does not object of himself being called baghawan, then he shd clearly meet the specifications of that Bhagavan as mentioned in the scriptures. This is clearly lacking.

Abhi

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-26-2002).]

gHari, thankyou for that post on the "susupti" - deep sleep. I was trying to explain this point earlier and you made my life easier and my ideas clearer.

Hari (g)Hari

abhi

Originally posted by Tarun:

One of the reasons AcyutAnanda SwAmI retired from active KC preaching is he was able to easily defeat anyone he met, specially in India.

Sounds funny, contradictory yet true.

 

"What is more powerful: HarinAm or vikarma-viphalam?

God's Holy Name or reactions to our past sins?"

End of story.

Tarunji, I am not clear why this is a reason for retirement. Does not connect!

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

Dear Abhi the great, i am sorry i have taken so long to respond to you, please forgive me, family life sometimes is very time consuming, i have two boys 12 and 14...need i say more. any ways, i told you i had a good Prabhupada story...the first time i ever saw Srila Prabhupada in person was at the 1974 Rathayata. when Prabhupada enetered the airport from walking across the tarmack after disembarking with Sudama. all the devotees inside the airport just went beserk with joy! I mean dangerously beserk...it was like some kind of a uncontrollable fever and Prabhupada,at least to the group of senior godbrothers immediately surrounding him, seemed to be in enough of a danger of being crushed that they formed a "lotus "phalanx" around him with interlocking arms...well it seemed they were a man short and guess who got picked by the big guys to fill in the spot directly to Prabhupada's right...mmm-hmmm...yours truly really lucked out. by now we had been funneled into a hallway with no room even on the sides for the karmis to get out of the way..it was completely crazy!...they too got swept into the the transcendental storm of devotees. yet here in the middle of the crowd that had now gotten even more intense, was Srila Prabhupada waking serenely within the safety of the lotus phalanx like there was simply no problem at all. i took hits, and lost one shoe, but it was really, really worth it to serve Prabhupada in person for the first time in such an intensely physical way, my youthful fancy was that NO ONE and i mean NO ONE was going to get thru and crushing MY Guru. i didn't elbow or hurt anybody, but i figuered that if one person would break thru it would keep going, so NO WAY was some body going to get past me. it was complete ecstasy, no indecision, just immediate and intense physical protection. Guru seva, ki-jaya! haribol Prabhu.

Jai!! That was a wonderful seva. One worth treasuring for millions of births.

Some more thoughts on the hero categories:

dhirodatta & dhira santa, seem to be more similar. I can imagine the exquisite features of Lord Rama, staight forward and sharp. Self content and confident. This kind of confidence is more serene. The pretenders pride will certainly be shattered by just a sharp glance of this hero. Wowwwww!! Those piercing eyes, red with anger, the arrows pointing at all the 10 heads of the asura ravana. I am telling you Ravana has already realised that he is never going to be victorious by just a half glance on Sri Ramachandra, the moon of the raghu dynasty.

dhirodDHata & Dhira lalita also seem to have a few common attributes. Sri Krishna is the Supreme Manipulator, some say he is the best politician. The young girls of Vraja are totally sold out to him. He is jovial and humorous. His confidence is very bubbly and sometimes seems as if he is not in control of himself. Not that goody-goody picture we really expect of a well mannered hero. Sometimes he steals the clothes and somtimes dances on Kaliyas hoods. But he is most trustworthy guy around for his devotees/fans. He is different from any other image of God portrayed, so he is special.

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

sorry i had to pick up kids. anyways...all i am trying to do with my membership and theirs is try to spread in our own little way a mood of "hey if you're one of Rupa's boys, you're fine with us". i live in a "guru harmonized town" but still there is a difficulty exchanging siddhanta past a certain level. my becoming a member here is kind of an expansion of association. i sense here at Audarya a nice attempt to keep the sideswiping and controversies confined to witty bon mots, a brilliant repartee a smattering of some genuine feel good Vaisnavism, and an INCREDIBLE tableau of serious people who know a whole lot, i find this very refreshing and i swear, sometimes i can feel Prabhupada's smile going right thru me as i punch that submit reply button or when an incoming hit goes straight to my heart. sooooo...i hope you don't think i'm not getting all mushy on you or boring you or worse yet making you scoff in my general direction at my complete lack of comprehending reality, but hey, this a PERSONAL philosophy i figure if i can pick up even just one "Prabhu pen pal" per ten people that just outright ignore me, hey what the hey, huh? and the boys, they are the future, do i really need to stress the significance of this. so i'm going to go now... i hope you will even talk to me after this...if not,see you in the joke section soon at a forum nearest you, where we will laughingly skip along in world harmony...honoring all Vaisnavas...

Bheem Mama,

Pls introduce me to my cousins....yohoooooo! It seems like its going to be a family get-together.

I agree when you say this board is worth being a member of. Members are truly mature and have a vision. An attitude to share. And uppermost - discipline. This is what sets the base of a succesful society (a web society). If there is no discipline in the members, then the society can never grow and change. This group instills that feeling.

I shd thank JN das for his nice job.

The communist revolutionists in China under Mao Tse-Tung were famous for their disciplined behaviour. When they were in hiding in remote villages, the simple peasants used to house them. So, the rules were

1. lie outside on the detachable doors of the host

2. as soon as one wakes up, fix the door back in position

3. never ill-treat or rape the ladies in the hse

4. Help the peasants in their farm as much as possible

These simple vows made them very dear to the farmers and they considered the Communists as true friends. Mao was a great hero, bcos he wd personify these rules. And those who broke the rules wd be judged ruthlessly by the simple peasants themselves, who were part of the Red Army. Seniors cd not ill-treat their followers. There are stories where the senior members who ill-treated their junior followers were just killed - no questions asked.

Well, the point I am trying to make is that of discipline. How important it is and how it impacts the image of a society.

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

Please tell me who Srila Prabhupada is. insert answer here please: ( ). thank you very much.

Oooooooh, He's my dearest and caring grandpa!! That's all I know, thats why I just love him. Just like that - aha.

abhi

Sorry, posted by mistake.

abhi

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-24-2002).]

Originally posted by Citta Hari:

Bhakta Don's idea is a bit misplaced, in my opinion. We would do better to understand what initiation is rather than not be initiated. Just because some don't live up to the vows taken in initiation does not mean that initiation is the problem. The problem is a lack of sadhu sanga, without which one cannot properly understand what diksa is and thus cannot take advantage of it. And to focus on service and preaching will be of little use without the guidance of a realized soul who shows us how to do these things and, more important, the implications these things have in awakening our inner life. Sadhu sanga is the primary cause of our spiritual growth. We can chant lakhs of names and do lots of service, but if we are not doing so under the guidance of a sadhu it will have little effect, or could even cause us to regress due to offenses caused out of ignorance.

 

Well written Citta Hari. Appreciate your thoughts.

My personal experience is that I get an impetus to preach only when I see my Guru Maharaj. And my GM (HH Jayapataka Swami) tells me to read more and more abt Srila Prabhupad whenever I ask HH what I shd read.

Only bcos of HH my love for SP has grown, to whatever little extent. In my spiritual life diksha has played a very important role. This is my personal experience.

Once I had a dream, that SP was walking towards his asan to give a Srimad Bhagavatham class in some temple hall. HDG walked by me, where I was sitting. HDG's lotus feet was just next to me, when I thought, "this is a golden chance, the ultimate opportunity, I cannot miss this for all my life". In my dream, without any second thoughts, I just grabbed those shining golden lotus feet of HDG, my hearts bouncing from stomach to neck and eyes full of tears and trembling hands. I just bowed down.

HDG walked past as if nothing ever happened and ascended the simhasan. Once HDG was seated comfortably he glanced down at me in a compassionate way, and gave a broad grin - one of complete approval and nodded, again in approval. I know that many devotees say that you shd not touch a Vasihnavas feet without his consent, so I had a guilty feeling. But SP removed all those guilt by his simple and elegant gestures.

Bolo Srila Prabhupad ki------- JAI!!

Dear Don, your feelings are genuine. I can see them in your words. There is a problem and we do not want to act as if there is no problem. There are different ways to redress issues within ISKCON, I am sure.

You shd bring these issues to a senior person whom you can trust and try to resolve it. If we raise the issues in a open forum, we might not get the problem fixed but rather get more problems. In open forums you can find the most immature person like me to the most bonafide person. And it wd be difficult to reach a solution here.

Pls pursue the issues and also pray to SP. We do not want more devotees to suffer like you, in this mood of service let us pursue the issue seriously till we get a concrete solution. Associating with devotees of similar wavelength is the most thrilling experience, they make you feel very nice, like my uncle, beemsane prabhu.

Hare Krishna

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

1 dhirodatta: grave humble forgiving fixed in vow UNBOASTFUL extremely powerful thwarts pride of other heroes example Sri Rama 2 Dhira lalita expert in 64 arts also in amorous arts always fresh youth expert joker NO FEAR and controlled by preme of his beloveds examples are Krishna and kandarpa 3 dhira santa peaceful and tolerant of miseries JUDICIOUS AND HUMBLE example "my brother" your best of uncles, our dear expert javellin master, heroic YUDDISTHIRA KEEEE JAYA! and you have the 4th(dhirodDHata) already and remember prabhu if you are stronger than someone you dont fight them so hard...EVER..and be so kind and gentle to those people less than you and your guru will see this and give you all facility to be glorious for Krishna! all glories to the Hero Vaisnavas! Uncle beemaSANE here. Good Luck to you!

Hmm. wow wow wow. Dheera Lalitha seems to be the most interesting charectar. You won't miss out on any fronts!!!

Hari Hari!!

abhi

By M.V. Kamath

Source: Free Press Journal

After all the hatred against the Vishwa Hindu Parishad has been spewed, after all the breast-beating and self-denigration (at which Hindus are so good) has

been gone through, could it be that the time has come to ask ourselves what the killings in Godhra and the rioting in Ahmedabad have been all about? The answer

is simple: the people of India - especially the Hindus - have yet to come to terms with their history.

Let this be first understood: no other country in the world has been overrun so often and so ruthlessly and its native people treated so shabbily by the

conqueror as India and Indians have been. Not the United States, not any country in the North and South American continents, not the countries of Africa or

even Europe, for that matter not even Japan and China in Asia have had to experience the horrors of invasion as India has had to experience in its long and

turbulent history.

India, in that sense is unique. So are Hindus, unique. So is their religion, unique. Right from 1000 AD, India has been the subject of a series of invasions

that have left their mark on the psyche of the people. In these last one thousand years Hindus have been kicked around, their temples have been desecrated,

their religion mocked as has never happened to any other people in the world. The Hindus have survived - but they have not forgotten the hurts and insults that

have been heaped upon them century after century.

And what are these insults? A few quotes from Islamic writers would be in order. Thus Zia-ud-din Burani (14th century) wrote in Tarikh-i-Firuzshahi: "The

obligation to be the refuge of the faith cannot be fulfilled until they (the Islamic rulers) have utterly destroyed infidelity and unbelief, polytheism and

idolatry...If they cannot wholly extirpate polytheism and infidelity because of their large number, it will not be less meritorious if, for the sake of

Islam...they use their efforts to insult and humiliate and to cause grief and bring ridicule and shame upon the polytheistic and for the glory of Islam and the

honour of the true faith permit even a single unbeliever and polytheist to live as a respectable person..."

Then there are the writings of Abd-al-Quddus Gangohi (1456-1537), a well-known Sufi saint among which there is this gem: "Non-Muslims should not wield the pen

in offices and they should not be commanders or tax-gatherers. In the sharia, the subordination of Kafirs is enjoined. And, in accordance with it, they should

be humbled, subordinated..."

As Bimal Prasad, a noted historian has recorded, in the early years of the 17th century, a much more famous Sufi sanit, Sheikh Ahmed Sirhinid1564-1624 held

similar views. In one of his letters to Sheikh Farid Bukhari he wrote: "The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who respects the kafirs

dishonours the Muslims...They (kafirs should be kept at arms length like dogs...If some worldly business cannot be performed without them, in that case only a

minimum of contact should be established with them but without taking them into confidence..." In this context what the distinguished historian R. C. Majumdar

has written makes sense. He wrote: "The worship of images which forms the most cherished element in the religious beliefs of the Hindus was anathema in the

eyes of the Muslims; and the long tradition of ruthless destruction of temples by them for nearly a thousand years formed a wide gulf between the two..."

No matter how much our secularists may rant and rave, the fact remains that a temple built to Shri Ram had been destroyed in Ayodhya and a masjid built on its

site using the very material of the destroyed temple. Thus, the Babri structure had 14 pillars made of Kasauti black stone with Hindu images. Also inside the

Babri compound was a piece of a doorjamb with images of 'Mukut-dhari dwarpal' and 'devakanyas'. Among the archaeological findings seen in the excavations have

been noted a temple bell, several intricate and detailed carvings, an image of Vishnu and several other Hindu deities. The principal finding, however is a 2ft

wide and 4.5 ft long buff sandstone tablet bearing an inscription in Devanagari. The fourth line of this shila lekh specifically described a temple of Lord

Vishnu '(Hari) as the janmabhoomi sthal". No greater evidence is required to prove that the Babri structure was indeed built over the site of a destroyed

temple.

But here may the point be made that even if no temple had been destroyed, a masjid had been erected in Ayodhya, a city sacred to Hindus, to demonstrate an

Islamic ruler's contempt for Hinduism and to emphasise who was the ruler. During the entire reign of Mughals, Hindus had to remain tight-lipped and suffer

insults quietly and with dignity. It was only after the Mughals were defeated and the British took over that the first stirrings against the Babri structure

made themselves felt. At that point in time the British had no desire to upset the Islamic applecart and the pleas of Hindus went unattended. What happened

after the British left is now history.

The least that Muslims could have done was to hand over the Babri structure to Hindus when the latter started agitation to regain their self-respect, That they

refused to do; handing over so-called masjids built over destroyed Hindu temples meant acknowledging that a grievous wrong had been done to Hindus - and that,

a certain section of Muslims have been most reluctant to admit. And in their arrogance they have had the support of the English media and leftist

intellectuals.

The usual argument is: do not anger the Muslims, do not recall past insults, do not disturb the status quo, let the dead past bury the dead etc. But to Hindus

the hurt persists. It is important to remember that when Christians came into their own in Spain, they went on a spree of destroying every vestige of Islam in

the entire Ibrrian peninsula. Even the famous Imambara (alhanmbra) was not spared though later it was repaired to remind Spaniards of their servile past.

In India, Hindus are more tolerant. Or are afraid. Syed Shahabuddin, convenor of the Babri Majsid Co-ordination Committee (BMCC) was quoted in Sunday (March

20, 1983) as saying: "Hindus profess secularism because they are cowards and are afraid of Muslim countries". But another explanation can also be given. The

"secularists" - a gentle word to describe Hindu apologists - want to show how different they are from Muslims especially in Pakistan. But even more

importantly, one suspects, they want the Muslim vote at any cost. The Muslims, understandably, are taking full advantage of both the explanations.

Had the Babri structure been graciously handed over to the Hindus as early as in 1949 as one major effort at prayaschitta - atonement - the history of

Hindu-Muslim relations would have undergone a major change. There would have been no need to demolish the Babri structure. It could have been dismantled and

its very bricks - even stolen pillars from an earlier temple - could have been used to build a bigger, grander masjid - elsewhere. In order to spite the VHP

and the BJP, oursecularHindus (and they belong to all non-BJP parties) have been defending the Musilm stand, attributing all manner of motives to the VHP. It

is an extraordinary phenomenon.

In a sense it amounts to cutting one's nose to spite another's face. The Babri masjid was a standing monument to everything that was wrong in Hindu-Muslim

relations. Its handing over to the VHP would have brought eternal credit to Muslims. It would have wiped out a thousand-year period of Islamic offensiveness

and brought Hindus and Muslims closer to gather. The secularists obviously do not want that to happen.

As long as the 'dispute' remains unresolved, they can claim to be the "true friends" of the Muslims and prosper with their votes. That would explain the

behaviour of the Samajwadi Party leaders and even the leaders of the Telugu Desam and Trinamool Congress parties. What they are anxious to evolve is not peace,

but the continuance of their vote-banks. And all this is done under the holy name of 'secularism'.

It is important to remember here that under Congress leadership there was no hesitation to change road names in Delhi or, for that mater, in Mumbai. There was

no hesitation either to have statues of British rulers removed from public places and confined to museums. If that is not "desecration" what is? The statue of

Queen Victoria in Mumbai's fort area had its nose cut. The statue of King Edward VII on a horse, that once stood at Kala Ghoda also in the fort area was

removed. Wasn't that desecration of sorts? Road names have been changed; to give but just one example: Hornby Road is now Dadabhai Naoraoji Road.

These moves were made by Congress government or under their aegis. Why should an unused majsid in Ayodhya be an exception? In any event the Babri masjid had no

right to exist in Ayodhya, in the first place, just as no Muslim would ever tolerate a temple in Mecca. This has nothing to do with secularism. No decent ruler

would ever have contemplated hurting Hindu sentiment. But neither Babar nor his general can be described as 'decent'. They were what they were: conquerors and

they showed the typical conqueror's disdain for local sentiments.

And when that is said, all is said.

Originally posted by Tarun:

Very easy.

When brahmaNas forget how to forgive, and they forget the God's Holy Names' power to purify, Hindus become Muslims.

The brahmanas became selfish and the kshatriyas were not having a global perspective of protecting Vedic Religion, but more interested in their own small territories. So, they sided with the Muslims and the Britishers to kill each other(few exceptions were Shivaji, Ranjit Singh etc,).

Now the country is ruled by Sudras, the trade unions.

A sincere son of Mother India can really not assimilate this fall from glory. We need to fight our way back up, and this is only possible by reviving the Brahmanical culture.

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

this is a follow up on how i assumed the name of beemasane. this is directed towards Abhithe great if he ever drops by again...i just want him to know i'm not so humble really. this comes from the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu-bindu by Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakur: there are four kinds of heroes or Nyakas...the 4th ,Dhiroddhata One who is malicious, proud, decietful,angry,and boastful is known as a dhirodhata. Learned men have accepted Bhimasena as a dhiroddata nayaka...Although these characteristics appear to be faults, they are accepted as qualities of Krishna, because they are appropriate in specific pastimes, in which he chastises the wicked in order to protect his devotees...cool huh?

Bheem Mamaji Dandavat,

I like this kshatriya spirit, it makes me thrilled and full of awe.

Once HH Jayadwaitha Maharaj said, as devotees we shd be like kshatriyas, ready to fight the onslaught of Maya. We need to develope the kshatriya spirit.

If we look at it objectively its a passion. But this passion is acceptable, bcos it drives us in the service of Guru & Krishna. This makes us die hard preachers, enthusiastic book distributors and strong in our sadhana and chanting. This idea appealed a lot to me bcos, I am somewhat passionate by nature.

So, lets fight it out in the battle field, challenging the forces of Maya and to get the message of Srila Prabhupad across.

Jai

Abhi

Ps: Wd appreciate if you cd post all the different Nayakas and there specific traits. We are all hero worshippers, and we try to become like our heroes. Let me see who is my kind of Hero. Definately you are one of them Mamaji.

Originally posted by Avinash:

I might get trapped any moment if the pretty girl sitting next to me just smiles.

 

If I remember correctly, you mentioned in one of your posts that you were married.

Dear Avinash,

Maya does not mind if you are married or not!! Just enjoy!! Who knows what'll happen tomorrow?

luv

Abhi

Originally posted by Avinash:

I sometimes feel that I am standing a little bit above the ground although my foot is firmly rooted on the ground.

 

Who is this "I" here? Is it soul? Is yes, then how is it feeling anything? Does it have mind to feel? If yes, then is that mind different from the mind which is a part of your body?

Avinash,

Don't mistakenly feel that i am liberated, yet!!haha. I might get trapped any moment if the pretty girl sitting next to me just smiles.

I don't know whether this is a perception of the soul or an illusion of the mind. But the feeling is I am something more than just the body. It cd as well be a mental perception/illussion.

This statement cannot conclusively prove the presence of the soul. I added it to share my experience.

Regarding the question, can soul have a mind, I feel the answer shd be in the affirmative. If there can be a transcendental body, why not transcendental mind? The pure devotees also think, feel and will. And this is the symptom of mind. There can be a transcendental mind or a purified mind.

Cheers

Abhi

Sometimes you know you are not the body, just like that. Not logically, not spiritually, but just you get a bolt from the blue that you are not the body, but rather looking out from the body thru a little keyhole called the eyes.

Then you look at your hands and get a wierd feeling that these hands belongs to the body, its actually not me. I am inside this body but these fleshy hands are something different, its not exactly me.

I sometimes feel that I am standing a little bit above the ground although my foot is firmly rooted on the ground. Hope I am not day-dreaming. Neither did I wear a pair of those Concave lenses...

abhi

Originally posted by beemasane:

Prabhupada must be so proud of his fighter so aptly named abhi the great.

A vaishnava is always recognised by his humility and not his bragging. So, this name I have chosen is to send a very clear message, and avoid all confusions. I really truly certainly feel I am great. Now you shd realise my true colors as a Vaishnava and servant of Prabhupad.

Bheema is the uncle of Abhimanyu, he knows better. Dandavat mamaji...

Its better to openly declare that I am egoistic and lusty and trying to prove I am very intelligent. And I make a lot of mistakes and do not admit them easily and am hot tempered. But, yes I like Srila Prabhupad. I like this person so much. As far as other devotees are concerned, I don't consider I am their servant except for my Guru and Gurun.

I derive a lot of pleasure in finding faults with the devotees and really hate people finding fault in me. I enjoy glorifications, so you are most welcome to glorify me.

boss boss anu boss.

Abhi

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-20-2002).]

Originally posted by beemasane:

i have just noticed that my "junior member" status has been upgraded to "member" status...there must be a glitch in the sisya-stem...i demand my junior rating back again...with all respects, i remain, unsurrendered, bummersane.

beema,

don't be attached to designations. Carry on your good work and nice spirit.

I feel there is a lesson for ISKCON here to learn. I have experienced young boys being brain washed into becoming full-time brahmacaris, which is very detrimental to their spiritual growth. There are temples in which devotees feel if you get married then you are fallen.

Becoming a life time celibate is not a very great idea for everyone. Its clearly not everyones cup of tea. It is an immature way of preaching which can spoil a persons self confidence and as time passes his spiritual life, too.

I feel the preaching shd be pro-marraige, if there are exceptions they can opt not to marry. This is more practical.

Abhi

Originally posted by Avinash:

Being asleep is biologically not the same as being dead. There are many differences between a dead body and the body of a sleeping person, temperature being one of these.

The point I want to convey is that, although one is not conscious of his body while in deep sleep still he remains alive. This shows that his source of life is not exactly the body. From the point of view of the soul, he is not aware of the body. One completely forgets he is the body.

Externally there are many differences between a living and dead body, I agree.

Abhi

NDE accounts are interesting proofs. There are also accounts of people who have remembered their previous life. This is another proof.

The fact that one is alive even when one is asleep is a proof. When I sleep, I completely forget my body. It is as good as I am dead. But when I wake up I'm still in that stinking body. This is proof that I can be something beyond just the body. It is possible to have out of body experiences.

Nowadays there are lots of talks regarding astral travels, or travels outside the limits of the body or spreading ones consciousness beyond the limits of the body. This all are proofs of the soul, to different extents.

Hare Krishna

Abhilash

Originally posted by shvu:

Everybody's, except one group known as Gaudiya Vaishnavas. According to their system, Bhakti is better than Mukti. Even if Mukti is offered to them, they will not accept it. There are many Gaudiyas here who can tell you more about this.

 

Read the first 5 verses from Chapter XII [bhakti Yoga] of the Gita. That answers your question.

 

Cheers

 

Yes, shvu is expert, he knows everything.

Sri Caithanya's followers understand that aspiring for mukti is also some kind of selfishness. A desire to keep oneself happy, and not exactly to pls the Lord who one worships.

If the Lord thinks that we can serve him better by remaining in this world, the devotee is happy and if the Lord feels that we can serve him in th Spiritual World by attaining liberation, then that is also acceptable to a devotee.Actually, just this is the only point which made me feel Gaudiya's are a cut above the rest.

As Sriman Mahaprabhu states "mama janmani janmaneeshvare bhavathat bhaktir ahaitukitvayi". Birth after birth I desire only your devotional service. He does not request for stopping my painful material birth or attaining liberation, rather he requests for a chance to serve birth after birth. This is the most appealing aspect of Gaudiyas as shvu has pointed out.

For mukti any other way can be adopted in full confidence - Advaita or Dwaita - anything can do and all are bonafide from the point of view of the Vedas.

Abhi

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-18-2002).]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Related to developing a ?voice? is how to vocalize the message. The most effective way to make a deep impression on the public mind is through consistency. Many small, positive impressions consistently applied over time are much more effective than one big presentation occurring at one point in time. This has a number of implications on preaching. For instance, it might be a better approach in preaching to distribute the so-called ?small books? rather than the large books. The large ones get the donations, but the small ones are more likely to actually be read. Small pamphlets with the focused message, distributed over several decades, I think would make a major impact on the public?s view of who the Hare Krsna?s are. Provided we need to have a singular message, and to distribute the same pamphlet (or variations on the same theme), consistently for several decades.

Gauracandra, you are a genius. You shd do more research on group psychology, national psychology. These small points are very genuine and practical and effective, too.

3 points which I found interesting from the book of Lee Kuan Yew. He says there are 3 basic necessities for a successful society.

1. Able and strong leadership

2. Efficient administration

3. Disciplined people

I feel ISKCON has to improve more on point no. 2.

Hari Hari

Abhi