sha

Copied from another board: <font color=#cccccc> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-10-2002).]

This is another common misunderstanding of the word 'deva'. Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva are one and identical Divine Personalities. In Vishnu Purana, VISHNU declares HIS NON DIFFERENCE from SIVA. (V.P.5.33.46-48) 'yo hariH sa zivaH sAkSAd yaH zivaH sa svayaM hariH ye tayor bhedamAti sthan narakAya bhave nnaraH" (Visnu purana.5.33.46) Whoever is Lord Hari, He alone is Lord Shiva. Whoever is manifesting as Lord Shiva is Lord Hari Himself. If any human being mistakes Their Identity percieving differences he/she surely goes to hell. "yathA ziva mayo viSNuH zivasya hRdayaM viSNur viSNoz ca hRdayaM zivaH" (Skanda Purana) Similarly Lord Siva is Vishnu and Vishnu is Siva, in Siva's heart Vishnu resides and Vishnu's heart is the abode of Siva. All the 60 Divine attributes of Bhagavan are present in both Lords but in Lord Krishna there are 64 attributes (60+4) according to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I have copied more from another thread: <small><font color=#cccccc> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-11-2002).]

forwarded from another board: <font color="fefefe"> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-10-2002).]

What you have just described is selfless Divine love which is defined in scriptures as: "anyAbhilASitA zUnyaM jnAna karmAdyanAvRtam, AnukUlyEna kRSNAnu zIlanaM bhaktir uttamA" (Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu) "guNarahitaM kAmanArahitaM pratikSaNa vardhamAnam" (Narada Bhakti Sutra- 54) "sarvOpAdhi virirmuktaM tat paratvena nirmalam, hRSikeNa hRSikeza sevanaM bhaktir ucyate" (Narada Panca Ratram) "ahaituky avyavahitA yA bhaktiH puruSOttame" (Bhagavatam 3.29.12) There are THREE main points to be grasped. Firstly, - anyAbhilASitA zUnyam - one should be devoid of ALL desires. Secondly, - jnAna karmAdi anAvRtam - 'Bhakti' should NOT be diluted by KARMA(ritualistic and obligatory actions), JNANA (doctrines of subtle knowedge and philosophies), tapa (penance, austerity), etc. Thirdly, - AnukUlyena kRSNAnuzIlanam - one should actively love and serve Lord (Krishna) in a pleasing way, through relationships of Santa (peaceful neutral tranquility), Dasya (humble eternal servitude), Sakhya (eternal friendship), Vatsalya (eternal parent-hood) and Madhurya (passionate amorous-love of eternal sweetheart).

Pretty good analysis!<font color=#cccccc> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-12-2002).]

It is surprising to see the socalled 'Raganuga' devotees are unfamiliar with this sublime verse. I am sure, Pandita Ananta dasa babaji might have mentioned it somewhere in his books.<font color="fefefe"> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-10-2002).]

What is needed, rather than running away or controlling or suppressing or any other resistance is, is understanding fear; that means, watch it, learn about it, come directly into contact with it. we are to learn about fear, not how to escape from it. ~ Jiddu Krishnamurti

...magic has power to experience and fathom things which are inaccessible to human reason. For magic is a great secret wisdom, just as reason is a great public folly. ~ Paracelsus

I do not follow 'your' interpretation of Raganuga bhakti sadhana.Raganuga bhakti which is on superior platform doesnot 'require' the 'crutches' of the' external formalities' of the inferior Vaidhi bhakti sadhana. I do remember also reading on these forums that the 'ritual of the formality of initiation' constitutes of Vaidhi bhakti sadhana and not a part of Raganuga bhakti sadhana, as the latter is completely internal, (Divine Grace) spiritual connection to Guru and Krishna alone, not an advertisement of joining into any fraternal club. Here are the cherished verses copied from another board: ragatmikaikanistha ye vraja-vasi-janadayah tesam bhavaptaye lubdho bhaved atradhikaravan tat-tal-liladi-madhurye srute dhir yad apeksate natra sastram na yuktim ca tal lobhotpatti-laksanam (Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu 1.2.291-2) 'kRSNa tad bhakta kAruNya mAtra lAbhaika hetukA pushti mArgatayA kaizcidiyaM rAgAnugocyate' (Bhakti Rasmrita Sindhu) 'brahmAnDa bhramita kona bhAgyavana jIva guru kRSNa prasAda pAya bhakti latA bIja' (C.C.) Sri Roopa Goswami has said - "yena tena prakAreNa manaH kRSNe nivezayat sarve vidhi niSedhAsyur ye tayoreva kimkaraH " Whatever way helps the devotee to absorb his mind and heart in spontaneous Divne Love of Lord Krishna, the devotee should follow. All the Vedic rules and subtle knowledge are otherwise, only SERVANTS of Raganuga Bhakti. The servants of 'rules , regulations as well as formalities' just provide trivial assistance to the loving devotees if at all the need should arise. This is also evident from Padma-purana, Brhad-sahasra-nama-stotram: smartavyaH satataM viSNur vismartavyo na jAtucit sarve vidhi-niSedhAH syur etayor eva kiGkarAH "To always remember Vishnu, and to never forget Him -- all the injunctions and prohibitions are "servants" of this principle." "yadA yamanu gRhNAti bhagavAnAtma bhAvitaH sa jahAti matiM loke vede ca pariniSThitAM." (Bhagavatam 4.29.46) "When, contemplated upon with in the Loving Heart, the LORD SHOWERS HIS GRACE ON SOME PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL, THE DEVOTEE SO BLESSED GIVES UP HIS FAITH, HOWEVER DEEPROOTED, in ALL the society rules, formalities and subtle Vedic knowledge." Narada Bhakti Sutra says- "nirodhastu loka veda vyApAranyAsaH" (8) "vedAnamapi sannysya ti kevalam avicchinnAnurAgaM labhate"(49) "niveditAtma loka veda zIla tvAt" (61) Caitanya Caritamritam Madhyalila- 8.8.220 Sri Ramananda Raya also says - "ONE WHO IS ATTRACTED BY THAT ECSTATIC RAGANUGA BHAKTI OF GOPIS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES OF VEDIC KNOWLEDGE OR RITUALISTIC WORSHIP according to the prescribed rules (? ceremonial formality of initiation) OR POPULAR OPINION. RATHER, HE OR SHE COMPLETELY SURRENDERS UNTO BELOVED KRISHNA AND LOVES HIM THROUGH SPONTANEOUS ATTACHMENT." (Readers may excuse the liberal use of the capitals as the messages are copied from another board.)

Dear Bhaktavasyadd, Have all 'initiated' desciples truly felt that way 30 yrs ago? Or is it a recent discovery from the teachings of saints? Which 'gopi' is 'officially' married to Krishna in a "public ceremony"? Marriage is an institution designed for the mundane society. In my humble opinion, no such 'ritual formality' is necessary for the seeking spirit soul. Our bond with Him is eternal and do not require formalities.<font color=#cccccc> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-10-2002).]

I do appreciate what you have said. Thanks.

Well said! I like this understanding.

Fun is in finding! Let us see how many devotees are familiar with this famous verse including the research scholors.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/05.09A.JJJ.Peace.htm t r u t h o u t | Statement Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Peace Is Possible In The Middle East Thursday, May 2, 2002 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, "quiet is the absence of noise, but peace requires the presence of justice." As Americans, that is our charge and our challenge in the Middle East. We seek not only to establish quiet from bombs and bullets, but also to achieve a just, lasting and comprehensive peace. Even at this dark hour of death and destruction, peace is still possible in the Middle East. Although involving Arabs and Jews, the crisis in the region is not an ethnic problem. While it invokes Judaism and Islam, it is not a religious problem. Though engulfing an ancient land, it is not an archaic problem.

Perhaps, you are familiar with this verse: gaccha vatsa madhupurI sarvaM bodhaya mAdhavam l yathA pazyAmi govindaM tathA kuru ll niSphalaM me gataM janma mithyA durAzayA l AzA hi paramaM duHkhaM nairAzyaM paramaM sukham ll <font color="fefefe"> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-08-2002).]

quote by shiva: -- <big><font color="red"> I was asked who my guru is and I refused. Why? Because I am qualified to speak on Gaudiya Vaishnavism without undergoing any formal ritual, which is external. The true initiation is accepting the teachings of the Parampara. </font></big> -- I was asked who my guru is and I refused. Why? Because I am qualified to speak on Gaudiya Vaishnavism without undergoing any formal ritual, which is external. The true initiation is accepting the teachings of the Parampara.

Theist, I copied this from another board, you may like this too: jAnAti kiJcid api sA hRdi me vibhAti rAdhA vazIkaraNa-mantram avazyam eva | no cet kathaM sura-munIndra-nutaM zaraNyaM dAsAbhimAnam anayad vraja-mugdha-candram ||1|| A realization has entered my heart that Radha must know some kind of special bewitching spell. Otherwise, how could she turn the enchanting moon of Vraja, to whom the gods and great sages bow down and of whom they take shelter, into someone proud to claim he is her servant. (Sri Narahari Thakur's Radhastakam, verse 1.) rAdhA prayAti vipinaM vipinaM prayAti rAdhA nikuJja-sadane sa ca tatra nityam | rAdhA-sukhe sukham upetya duHkhe ca duHkhI kRSNaM kadApi khalu tiSThati na svatantraH ||4|| Radha goes into the woods; Krishna goes into the woods. When Radha goes into the forest bower, Krishna is always there with her. When Radha is happy, he becomes happy. When she is sad, he is also sad. Krishna is never, ever independent in any way. (Sri Narahari Tahakur's Radhikastakam, verse 4.) bhaktiM na kRSNa-caraNe na karomi cArtiM rAdhA-padAmbuja-rajaH-kaNa-sAhasena | tasyA dRg-aJcala-nipAta-vizeSa-vettA daivAd ayaM mayi kariSyati dAsa-buddhim ||6|| I do not engage in devotion to Krishna, nor am I troubled by it, for I have been made bold through the few drops of dust of Radha's lotus feet that have fallen on my head. Yet Krishna knows the special power of Radha's sidelong glances, will one day suddenly take an attitude of service to me. (Sri Narahari Thakur's Radhikastakam, verse 6.) (posted by Jagadananda dasa on another board)<font color="fefefe"> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-09-2002).]

Maitreya

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Caitanya Caritamritam 2.8. Srila Ramananda Raya said: "Pure devotional service without any touch of aisvarya jnana, subtle knowledge, is the essence of perfection." 68. At this point, Lord replied, "This is alright, but still you can speak more on that subject." Raya then replied, "Ecstatic spontaneous love for the Supreme Lord is the essence of perfection." 69. Ramananda Raya continued, "As long there is hunger and thirst, eating and drinking makes one feel very happy. When the Lord is worshipped with pure spontaneous love, transcendental bliss is awakened in the heart of the devotee." 70. "Pure spontaneous love for Krishna, cannot be had even by pious activity in thousands of lives. It can be attained only by one price - intense greed to obtain it. If it is available somewhere one must purchase it without delay."<small><font color="fefefe"> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-09-2002).]

Copied from another board: <center> (Bhakti Shatak.1)</center>

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Knowledge is one thing, understanding is another thing... Knowledge by itself does not give understanding. Nor is understanding increased by an increase of knowledge alone. Understanding depends on the relation of knowledge to being. Understanding is the resultant of knowledge and being. And knowledge and being must not diverge too far, otherwise understanding will prove to be far removed from either. At the same time the relation of knowledge to being does not change with a mere growth of knowledge. It changes only when being grows simultaneously with knowledge. In other words, understanding grows only with the growth of being. ~ Georgi Ivanovich Gurdjieff

</big></font> <center> [This message has been edited by sha (edited 05-04-2002).]