Raguraman
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Visit PANDURANGA at Thennangur, Tamil Nadu
Raguraman replied to Raguraman's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Hare Krishna, Jaya Panduranga, All glories to Swami Gnanananda Giri http://www.chembur.com/gnanananda/history.htm The world in which we live today distributed, all over in villages and cities, in the deep valleys and plateaus and on the steep slopes of the hilly ranges is one in which one may not easily know, and know really, the Great and the Good near and around. But one and all will easily know and talk or the evil amidst them. Because the evil and the vicious, in thought and life having become predominant everywhere, one is not able to see the really Good and Great or accept them as such when told. So the, so called good and great among us today is one who enjoys that position conferred on him by others with their own comparative yardstick, till he is exposed, betrayed or superseded by another cleverer than himself in carrying the evil, But then the really Good and Great continue to be still there from time to time in our midst and by and large a majority who would by some unconscious urge flock to them, do so only for some quick returns and for easy annulment of their wrongs. Only a few go to them and it is due to their evolution - with a unique and spontaneous dedication and complete surrender. They pray to the Great Souls for no quick returns but, certainly for being helped — nay blessed to be purified of their karmic accumulation and absolved. They are rewarded in due course and to the extent to which they are in the stage of their evolution. The individual who is conscious of his evolution and who aspires and works for it gets always the help needed by him and the help comes from the Divine and through the Divinity itself in human form. They are adored and worshipped as Gurus and as God Himself. To sincere aspirants God comes in the form of Gurus. And they come from time to time, according to the requirements of the age. They may be many, but each has His unique purpose and mission. It is futile, and blasphemous even to compare and contrast them with one another. One should hold fast to one’s own chosen Guru and while following Him scrupulously should not even in thought, consider others as less important. One such Great Guru in our midst today is His Holiness Shree Gnanananda Giri Swamigal of Tapovanam in South Arcot district in Tamil Nadu. Tapovanam Tapovanam meaning ‘forest of penance’ is today a place of pilgrimage; a spiritual haven and an abode of peace and bliss for thousands of devotees as well as many great saints. It is rightly situated within a couple of miles from a sacred town called ‘Tirukoilur’ meaning a town of sacred temples as it contains great temples dedicated to Shiva and Vishnu the presiding deities of which had been adored by the great Shaivite and Vaishnavite Saints known as Nayanmars and Alwars. The place has another importance as the seat of penance of the illustrious sage. Nearby flows the reputed Dakshina Pinakini winding its way through the sacred place with the range of hillocks at the background, cluster of green trees around and tapering towers to the Holy Shrines—all providing at once a picture of celestial beauty and atmosphere of transporting divinity. There is also on the bank of this river the Samadhi of Swami Ragothama worshipped by the followers of Madhwas and others as well. It is in this divinely charged atmosphere and place is the Holy Thapovanam inviting like a mother all the children of God. And there is really a Mother who is at once the Father too, in the form H.H. Gnanananda Giri Swamigal. Compassionate Divine: When the aspirants enter into the Holy grove of mangoes the Thapovanam—some in awe and wonder, some in reverence, some in ecstacy, they come across, either near the gate or in some other corner of the grove, taking a stroll or supervising a work that is going on or even seated somewhere under a tree or in a cot, one with a radiant smile on his face assuring at once his compassion and greeting the visitors and showing them the room to stay, the bathroom to wash and clean their external dirt, the kitchen to refresh their physical appetite. The visitors, some of them atleast may have taken Him for some guide or manager of the place. Only later, they will be thrilled to learn that He is the one whom they wanted to see and salute, the one who enables, them to clean their Internal dirt—to satisfy in full their spiritual appetite, and to give a room in His blissful heart. Then they will be fortunate to have Him, as their guide and manager in life. The simplicity of the external form, the natural solicitude of the Compassionate Divine and the uniform affection and concern for one and all who go unto Him are things that get embedded permanently in the hearts of thousands of those devotees who are able to create the same impact on others who did not go to Him yet, and make them eager and restless till they do it. It is natural for every one to be eager to know all about such a great Guru—his age, his parentage, his early life, his growth in spiritual life, his achievements, his powers, and so on. This has become almost traditional, though there is nothing wrong about it. Only one should realise that there is no importance in these things. For, a realised soul has no birth or death in the usual sense and therefore he is ageless. As a realised soul he has no special physical, attachments and hence parentage is not of much consequence. It is perhaps crazy and impertinent to assess them by a knowledge of their spiritual growth, achievement and powers. It is the subtle desire to derive worldly benefits in most of the cases that prompts people to assess the great ones. However the story and background of the lives of great ones has one purpose in that they reveal the secret of evolution, how the soul is continuous and eternal and how it evolves In successive births. Except to remind ourselves of just the growth and evolution of soul and therefore learn how to march successfully on the path of evolution it has no meaning. In the case of H.H. Gnanananda Giri Swamiji, there is not much information on the surface of his life for us to know all about him. In fact, his age in this form is itself & beyond one's estimate. The calm serene and ever fresh face and form of the Swamiji baffles anybody’s guess about his age. But certain evidence available from valid sources outside and also from occasional and casual observations being made by the Swamiji himself would enable us to put it at over 250 to 300 years. We shall come to this later. Life History of Swamiji Coming to the life of the present form of the Eternal Soul of the Swamiji, He was born long long ago at Mangalapuri in the North Kanara district to a pious couple, Sri Venkoba Ganapatigal and Smt. Sakkubai who were childless for a long time. He was named as Subramanya in his Poorvasrama, He was duly initiated into Gayatri while he was seven. He was not much, interested in his school education. What should the Loka Guru that He was to be, learn at school? He was always indifferent to external things and was deeply absorbed in contemplation of his self. This went on till his twelfth year when suddenly one night, the boy Subramanya saw a divine light (Jyoti) before Him. Desirous of touching it, He went towards It and it was receding as He was following it. At daybreak it disappeared. Only to appear again in the nights that followed. Thus following the Jyothi Subramanya reached at as last Pandharpur. Leading the boy to the Sanctum Sanctorum of Vittal inside. the Shrine, the Jyoti vanished. The boy had, a hearty darshan of Lord Panduranga and-Rukmayi. When the night came, the boy who was hungry fell asleep and in the middle of night. Lord VittaI woke up the boy Subramanya, fed Him and blessed Him. As usual in the night, the Jyoti appeared again and led Him to a place nearby where a Great saint was camping then. He was H. H. Shri Sivarathangiri Swamiji, Jagadguru Sankaracharya of Jyotir Math in Kashmir. This Peetha of Jyoti Math in Kashmir is one of the Peethas established by Shri Adi Shankara Bhagavad ., and comes under the lineage of Shri Thotakacharya one of the four chief disciples of Shri Adi Shankara. Jagadguru Sri Sivaratnagiri Swamiji could gauge the spiritual depth of the boy Subramanya before Him and immediately accepted him as His Priya-Shisya. The earthly parents of boy Suhramanya in their search for their beloved child came at last to Pandharpur where they saw Him under the affectionate care of the Jagadguru. They were advised properly in the matter and they could understand the secret of the advent of Subramanya. They went back after having been fully convinced about it. For over 18 years, the blessed Subramanya underwent his probation under the Jagadguru. He was Initiated into the esoteric knowledge of Advaita and when the time came for the Siddhi (Eternal rest) of the Jagadguru—Shri Sivarathnagiri Swami He transferred all His powers of penance to His Priya-Shishya and christened him as Shri Gnanananda Giri while granting Him the order of Sanyas. He was also nominated as successor to the peetha of the Jyotir Math. H. H. Shri Sivarathnagiri Swamiji entered into Mahasamadhi on the Purnima day of Chaitra and his mortal remains were interred In Srinagar after the due rites were performed. The Samadhi is still in Srinagar. Every year now the Chaitra Purnima day is observed at Thapovanam in memory of the Jagadguru Shri Sivaratanagiri Swamiji. Moth moved by the separation of his revered Guru, Shri Gnanananda Giri Swamiji did not desire to continue long in the Peetha and so he nominated another Shishya as His successor and started out to the high Himalayas. For over sixty years he did severe penance at Monasarovar and other places and then moved out on . Yatra from the Himalayas to Kanyakumari and to places outside like Ceylon where he met a number of Great men of spirituality. His Greatness The Swamiji has mentioned that he knew personally of the initiation given by Totapuri to Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams. (1836-1886) at Dakshineswar and similarly of the initiation given by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa to Narendra (later Swami Vivekananda ). He has also met Saint Ramalingam of Vadalur ( near present Neyveli 1823—l874). He had come across the boy Ramana in the Madurai temple when Ramana was just 13 years old. Later when Ramana became Ramana Maharishi and was living in the Virupaksha cave at Tiruvannamalai, Shri Gnanananda Giri Swamiji used to meet the Maharishi frequently and discuss. In the early part of this century, the Swamiji came to many places in the south like Tiruchi, Salem and Attiyampatti where be transformed the dacoits who were causing great hardships to people then. There is an ashram at Attiampatti and another at Siddalingamatam near Tirukoilur itself. He came to Thapovanam in 1950 and in 1953 the present Ashram came into being. The Swamiji is unostentatious and easily accessible to one and all irrespective of their status in life or other divisions, of caste, creed etc. As already said, His unsophisticated appearance and behaviour apparently hide His Greatness. He comes down from his height of spiritual attainment to the level of the ordinary aspirant who goes to him in earnestness for guidance and solace. In the midst of his intimate association with the visitors going to Tapovanam he would still be out of them remaining in Sahaja Nishtai, seeing the Supreme in everything. His Grace is showered on all who go to Him and they are cured of their physical lapses and are nurtured mentally to pursue righteous life. He advocates the path of Bhakti and complete surrender to Guru and God as the best suited and the easiest to practice in this age. He would expound the big ‘tatvas' in a simple manner with apt stories and parables. Music and Namasankirtan are dear to Him and He asserts that sincere chanting of the names of the Lord is bound to liberate people in this age. For those who have attained the height of practices He imparts knowledge of the self and exhorts them to practise self-enquiry. Swami Haridas and Sri Gnanananda Seva Samajam In order to consolidate and coordinate the various activities so far being done, Shri Swami Haridas has started Sri Gnanananda Seva Samajam at the instance of the devotees and with the blessings of his Guru. The Seva Samajam is a registered Trust at No. 26, Lloyds Road, Madras - 6) with Sri Swami Haridas* ( Swami Haridoss has since then attained Jala Samadhi in 1994.) as the Managing Trustee and four others as trustees. The main objects of the Samajam are the dissemination of knowledge, education and culture of Indian Philosophy through Institutions, lectures, seminars, bhajans and namasankeertans, melahs and through publication of religious works and journals and also running libraries, orphanages, medical centres etc Swami Haridas has been highly blessed by the Great Guru Shri Gnanananda Giri after severe tests and has been commanded to take up this service of spreading Bhakti among the people all over the country. His devotion to the Guru is unique and he swears that whatever he says is because of the Grace of the Guru who inspires him then and there to say and sing. The Message he got from the Guru is: ‘When people praise you much do not become egoistic but ignore them in all humility: And do not be worried about the insults thrown at you likewise. Then you will sett1e down well". This is equally a message to us all. To see such a Great Guru is to know Him: to know Him is to know God. For God and Guru are one and the same. -
Visit PANDURANGA at Thennangur, Tamil Nadu
Raguraman replied to Raguraman's topic in The Hinduism Forum
Hare Krishna, Jaya Panduranga, All glories to Swami Gnanananda Giri http://www.chembur.com/gnanananda/history.htm The world in which we live today distributed, all over in villages and cities, in the deep valleys and plateaus and on the steep slopes of the hilly ranges is one in which one may not easily know, and know really, the Great and the Good near and around. But one and all will easily know and talk or the evil amidst them. Because the evil and the vicious, in thought and life having become predominant everywhere, one is not able to see the really Good and Great or accept them as such when told. So the, so called good and great among us today is one who enjoys that position conferred on him by others with their own comparative yardstick, till he is exposed, betrayed or superseded by another cleverer than himself in carrying the evil, But then the really Good and Great continue to be still there from time to time in our midst and by and large a majority who would by some unconscious urge flock to them, do so only for some quick returns and for easy annulment of their wrongs. Only a few go to them and it is due to their evolution - with a unique and spontaneous dedication and complete surrender. They pray to the Great Souls for no quick returns but, certainly for being helped — nay blessed to be purified of their karmic accumulation and absolved. They are rewarded in due course and to the extent to which they are in the stage of their evolution. The individual who is conscious of his evolution and who aspires and works for it gets always the help needed by him and the help comes from the Divine and through the Divinity itself in human form. They are adored and worshipped as Gurus and as God Himself. To sincere aspirants God comes in the form of Gurus. And they come from time to time, according to the requirements of the age. They may be many, but each has His unique purpose and mission. It is futile, and blasphemous even to compare and contrast them with one another. One should hold fast to one’s own chosen Guru and while following Him scrupulously should not even in thought, consider others as less important. One such Great Guru in our midst today is His Holiness Shree Gnanananda Giri Swamigal of Tapovanam in South Arcot district in Tamil Nadu. Tapovanam Tapovanam meaning ‘forest of penance’ is today a place of pilgrimage; a spiritual haven and an abode of peace and bliss for thousands of devotees as well as many great saints. It is rightly situated within a couple of miles from a sacred town called ‘Tirukoilur’ meaning a town of sacred temples as it contains great temples dedicated to Shiva and Vishnu the presiding deities of which had been adored by the great Shaivite and Vaishnavite Saints known as Nayanmars and Alwars. The place has another importance as the seat of penance of the illustrious sage. Nearby flows the reputed Dakshina Pinakini winding its way through the sacred place with the range of hillocks at the background, cluster of green trees around and tapering towers to the Holy Shrines—all providing at once a picture of celestial beauty and atmosphere of transporting divinity. There is also on the bank of this river the Samadhi of Swami Ragothama worshipped by the followers of Madhwas and others as well. It is in this divinely charged atmosphere and place is the Holy Thapovanam inviting like a mother all the children of God. And there is really a Mother who is at once the Father too, in the form H.H. Gnanananda Giri Swamigal. Compassionate Divine: When the aspirants enter into the Holy grove of mangoes the Thapovanam—some in awe and wonder, some in reverence, some in ecstacy, they come across, either near the gate or in some other corner of the grove, taking a stroll or supervising a work that is going on or even seated somewhere under a tree or in a cot, one with a radiant smile on his face assuring at once his compassion and greeting the visitors and showing them the room to stay, the bathroom to wash and clean their external dirt, the kitchen to refresh their physical appetite. The visitors, some of them atleast may have taken Him for some guide or manager of the place. Only later, they will be thrilled to learn that He is the one whom they wanted to see and salute, the one who enables, them to clean their Internal dirt—to satisfy in full their spiritual appetite, and to give a room in His blissful heart. Then they will be fortunate to have Him, as their guide and manager in life. The simplicity of the external form, the natural solicitude of the Compassionate Divine and the uniform affection and concern for one and all who go unto Him are things that get embedded permanently in the hearts of thousands of those devotees who are able to create the same impact on others who did not go to Him yet, and make them eager and restless till they do it. It is natural for every one to be eager to know all about such a great Guru—his age, his parentage, his early life, his growth in spiritual life, his achievements, his powers, and so on. This has become almost traditional, though there is nothing wrong about it. Only one should realise that there is no importance in these things. For, a realised soul has no birth or death in the usual sense and therefore he is ageless. As a realised soul he has no special physical, attachments and hence parentage is not of much consequence. It is perhaps crazy and impertinent to assess them by a knowledge of their spiritual growth, achievement and powers. It is the subtle desire to derive worldly benefits in most of the cases that prompts people to assess the great ones. However the story and background of the lives of great ones has one purpose in that they reveal the secret of evolution, how the soul is continuous and eternal and how it evolves In successive births. Except to remind ourselves of just the growth and evolution of soul and therefore learn how to march successfully on the path of evolution it has no meaning. In the case of H.H. Gnanananda Giri Swamiji, there is not much information on the surface of his life for us to know all about him. In fact, his age in this form is itself & beyond one's estimate. The calm serene and ever fresh face and form of the Swamiji baffles anybody’s guess about his age. But certain evidence available from valid sources outside and also from occasional and casual observations being made by the Swamiji himself would enable us to put it at over 250 to 300 years. We shall come to this later. Life History of Swamiji Coming to the life of the present form of the Eternal Soul of the Swamiji, He was born long long ago at Mangalapuri in the North Kanara district to a pious couple, Sri Venkoba Ganapatigal and Smt. Sakkubai who were childless for a long time. He was named as Subramanya in his Poorvasrama, He was duly initiated into Gayatri while he was seven. He was not much, interested in his school education. What should the Loka Guru that He was to be, learn at school? He was always indifferent to external things and was deeply absorbed in contemplation of his self. This went on till his twelfth year when suddenly one night, the boy Subramanya saw a divine light (Jyoti) before Him. Desirous of touching it, He went towards It and it was receding as He was following it. At daybreak it disappeared. Only to appear again in the nights that followed. Thus following the Jyothi Subramanya reached at as last Pandharpur. Leading the boy to the Sanctum Sanctorum of Vittal inside. the Shrine, the Jyoti vanished. The boy had, a hearty darshan of Lord Panduranga and-Rukmayi. When the night came, the boy who was hungry fell asleep and in the middle of night. Lord VittaI woke up the boy Subramanya, fed Him and blessed Him. As usual in the night, the Jyoti appeared again and led Him to a place nearby where a Great saint was camping then. He was H. H. Shri Sivarathangiri Swamiji, Jagadguru Sankaracharya of Jyotir Math in Kashmir. This Peetha of Jyoti Math in Kashmir is one of the Peethas established by Shri Adi Shankara Bhagavad ., and comes under the lineage of Shri Thotakacharya one of the four chief disciples of Shri Adi Shankara. Jagadguru Sri Sivaratnagiri Swamiji could gauge the spiritual depth of the boy Subramanya before Him and immediately accepted him as His Priya-Shisya. The earthly parents of boy Suhramanya in their search for their beloved child came at last to Pandharpur where they saw Him under the affectionate care of the Jagadguru. They were advised properly in the matter and they could understand the secret of the advent of Subramanya. They went back after having been fully convinced about it. For over 18 years, the blessed Subramanya underwent his probation under the Jagadguru. He was Initiated into the esoteric knowledge of Advaita and when the time came for the Siddhi (Eternal rest) of the Jagadguru—Shri Sivarathnagiri Swami He transferred all His powers of penance to His Priya-Shishya and christened him as Shri Gnanananda Giri while granting Him the order of Sanyas. He was also nominated as successor to the peetha of the Jyotir Math. H. H. Shri Sivarathnagiri Swamiji entered into Mahasamadhi on the Purnima day of Chaitra and his mortal remains were interred In Srinagar after the due rites were performed. The Samadhi is still in Srinagar. Every year now the Chaitra Purnima day is observed at Thapovanam in memory of the Jagadguru Shri Sivaratanagiri Swamiji. Moth moved by the separation of his revered Guru, Shri Gnanananda Giri Swamiji did not desire to continue long in the Peetha and so he nominated another Shishya as His successor and started out to the high Himalayas. For over sixty years he did severe penance at Monasarovar and other places and then moved out on . Yatra from the Himalayas to Kanyakumari and to places outside like Ceylon where he met a number of Great men of spirituality. His Greatness The Swamiji has mentioned that he knew personally of the initiation given by Totapuri to Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams. (1836-1886) at Dakshineswar and similarly of the initiation given by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa to Narendra (later Swami Vivekananda ). He has also met Saint Ramalingam of Vadalur ( near present Neyveli 1823—l874). He had come across the boy Ramana in the Madurai temple when Ramana was just 13 years old. Later when Ramana became Ramana Maharishi and was living in the Virupaksha cave at Tiruvannamalai, Shri Gnanananda Giri Swamiji used to meet the Maharishi frequently and discuss. In the early part of this century, the Swamiji came to many places in the south like Tiruchi, Salem and Attiyampatti where be transformed the dacoits who were causing great hardships to people then. There is an ashram at Attiampatti and another at Siddalingamatam near Tirukoilur itself. He came to Thapovanam in 1950 and in 1953 the present Ashram came into being. The Swamiji is unostentatious and easily accessible to one and all irrespective of their status in life or other divisions, of caste, creed etc. As already said, His unsophisticated appearance and behaviour apparently hide His Greatness. He comes down from his height of spiritual attainment to the level of the ordinary aspirant who goes to him in earnestness for guidance and solace. In the midst of his intimate association with the visitors going to Tapovanam he would still be out of them remaining in Sahaja Nishtai, seeing the Supreme in everything. His Grace is showered on all who go to Him and they are cured of their physical lapses and are nurtured mentally to pursue righteous life. He advocates the path of Bhakti and complete surrender to Guru and God as the best suited and the easiest to practice in this age. He would expound the big ‘tatvas' in a simple manner with apt stories and parables. Music and Namasankirtan are dear to Him and He asserts that sincere chanting of the names of the Lord is bound to liberate people in this age. For those who have attained the height of practices He imparts knowledge of the self and exhorts them to practise self-enquiry. Swami Haridas and Sri Gnanananda Seva Samajam In order to consolidate and coordinate the various activities so far being done, Shri Swami Haridas has started Sri Gnanananda Seva Samajam at the instance of the devotees and with the blessings of his Guru. The Seva Samajam is a registered Trust at No. 26, Lloyds Road, Madras - 6) with Sri Swami Haridas* ( Swami Haridoss has since then attained Jala Samadhi in 1994.) as the Managing Trustee and four others as trustees. The main objects of the Samajam are the dissemination of knowledge, education and culture of Indian Philosophy through Institutions, lectures, seminars, bhajans and namasankeertans, melahs and through publication of religious works and journals and also running libraries, orphanages, medical centres etc Swami Haridas has been highly blessed by the Great Guru Shri Gnanananda Giri after severe tests and has been commanded to take up this service of spreading Bhakti among the people all over the country. His devotion to the Guru is unique and he swears that whatever he says is because of the Grace of the Guru who inspires him then and there to say and sing. The Message he got from the Guru is: ‘When people praise you much do not become egoistic but ignore them in all humility: And do not be worried about the insults thrown at you likewise. Then you will sett1e down well". This is equally a message to us all. To see such a Great Guru is to know Him: to know Him is to know God. For God and Guru are one and the same. -
Hare Krishna, Jaya Panduranga. I thought visiting Lord Panduranga at Thennangur is a great experience. I visited that place and would suugest others to visit if they can. It was built by Swami Haridas Giri. http://www.thennangur.com/ Probably some of you have heard of Swami Haridas(Not the Mahaprabhus disciple) and his GURU Swami Gnanananda. My uncle used to tell me often that Swami Gnanananda was nearly 500 years old. I think HE lived till late 80s before attaining samadhi. Swami Gnanananda cured Swami Haridas from small pox by just touching Swami Haridas with his hand. The story goes like this. Swami Haridas was working in Crompton Greaves company as an engineer. Once he was suffering from Small Pox and Swami Haridas' father having heard of Swami Gnanananda Guru came to him and surrendered his child before him. Swami Gnanananda Guru agreed to cure his son on one condition if he would allow his son to become his desciple and allow him to take sannyasa. Swami Haridas' father agreed so that his son atleast would live. With one touch Swami Haridas was not only cured of small pox but was given Gnana diksha, which Swami Haridas realised when his Guru asked him to teach the students in the ashram. To his own surprise Swami Haridas not only taught highly spiritual knowledge to students without any previous education but also was given the gift of singing Lord Hari's name. Swami Haridas himself had told this story to a group of sudience at Madurai and my uncle was one of the people in that audience. My uncle narrated this story to me. My Uncle had also visited Swami Gnanananda Guru once at a pplace near Madurai. During that time Madurai was in drought and people visited the Guru for help. The Guru promised them that before those people reach Madurai it would start to rain. Before my uncle reached Madurai it was already raining heavily. These are some of the stories I heard about the powers of this Great Guru. Swami Gnanananda was himself lead by Lord Vittala in his childhood. Swami Haridas was a great singer in Tamil Nadu and a great Bhakta of Sri Krishna. He loved the Lord as Ram the most(I guess). During his end of life(late 80s or early 90s) he entered Ganga and asked his desciples not to follow him. I heard that water from the river started flood and Swami Haridas disappeared from this world. He is now with his beloved Lord RAM.
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Hare Krishna, Jaya Panduranga. I thought visiting Lord Panduranga at Thennangur is a great experience. I visited that place and would suugest others to visit if they can. It was built by Swami Haridas Giri. http://www.thennangur.com/ Probably some of you have heard of Swami Haridas(Not the Mahaprabhus disciple) and his GURU Swami Gnanananda. My uncle used to tell me often that Swami Gnanananda was nearly 500 years old. I think HE lived till late 80s before attaining samadhi. Swami Gnanananda cured Swami Haridas from small pox by just touching Swami Haridas with his hand. The story goes like this. Swami Haridas was working in Crompton Greaves company as an engineer. Once he was suffering from Small Pox and Swami Haridas' father having heard of Swami Gnanananda Guru came to him and surrendered his child before him. Swami Gnanananda Guru agreed to cure his son on one condition if he would allow his son to become his desciple and allow him to take sannyasa. Swami Haridas' father agreed so that his son atleast would live. With one touch Swami Haridas was not only cured of small pox but was given Gnana diksha, which Swami Haridas realised when his Guru asked him to teach the students in the ashram. To his own surprise Swami Haridas not only taught highly spiritual knowledge to students without any previous education but also was given the gift of singing Lord Hari's name. Swami Haridas himself had told this story to a group of sudience at Madurai and my uncle was one of the people in that audience. My uncle narrated this story to me. My Uncle had also visited Swami Gnanananda Guru once at a pplace near Madurai. During that time Madurai was in drought and people visited the Guru for help. The Guru promised them that before those people reach Madurai it would start to rain. Before my uncle reached Madurai it was already raining heavily. These are some of the stories I heard about the powers of this Great Guru. Swami Gnanananda was himself lead by Lord Vittala in his childhood. Swami Haridas was a great singer in Tamil Nadu and a great Bhakta of Sri Krishna. He loved the Lord as Ram the most(I guess). During his end of life(late 80s or early 90s) he entered Ganga and asked his desciples not to follow him. I heard that water from the river started flood and Swami Haridas disappeared from this world. He is now with his beloved Lord RAM.
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Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur
Raguraman replied to Raguraman's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Hare Krishna, All glories to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja Thankyou Guest. I enjoyed reading through all your links. -
Hare Krishna, All glories to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur I am deeply touched by the teachings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. http://www.stephen-knapp.com./organized_religion.htm Where can I get to know more about is teachings etc.
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Hare Krishna J.N.DASjee, The one which I am reading seems to be atheistic one. Atleast it seems to be unconcerned about the principle of GOD. Where is the original teachings of Saankhya that the original Lord Kapila thought. May I know the source of this information.
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Hare Krishna, Is the saankhya philosophy as it exists today and tthe Saankhya that Lord Krishna mentions the same? Lord Kapila is an incarnation of Lord. I have just started reading this pilosophy. Can anyone explain this further.
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Hare Krishna, Why is it required in every religion for a person to be righteous ? Is it not an offering to GOD. Similarly when you love Lord Krishna, you would want to give something. Actually GOD does not care what you give, but only your faith and Bhakthi with which you give. The offering by itself is symbolic.
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Can Krishna be compared to Allah or Jehovah ?
Raguraman replied to Raguraman's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Hare Krishna, Can you explain the particular parts of Bible where I have problem. -
Can Krishna be compared to Allah or Jehovah ?
Raguraman replied to Raguraman's topic in The Hinduism Forum
Hare Krishna, Can you explain the particular parts of Bible where I have problem. -
Hare Krishna, How can Jehovah be compared to LORD KRISHNA ? In Exodus, Jehova orders Moses to kill his own brothers. For what....... Because some ignorant Jews made an ICON of bull and started worshipping it. How can all merciful God give such an order. Jehovah seems to be so envious that he wanted those worsippers killed. I see insecurity in Jehova. But Lord Krishna says in Bhagvad Gita that whoever or whatever you worship(DEVAS) actually you are worshipping me. No insecurity here as LORD KRISHNA is the true GOD. In other places Jehovah punishes wives of David(I think so) by allowing David's son to rape their mothers. What kind of GOD can do such a thing ? How can anyone compare Jehovah to LORD KRISHNA. I am not being sectarian but trying to understand. As for Allah, in Quran he orders his Prophet to kill pagans just because they are pagans. Even if there is any reason to kill pagans Allah seems to have special hatred for JEWS(Quran saya Jews have become pigs etc.). How can Allah be same as Lord Krishna. Both GODS are insecure of their position and sometimes are filled with rage.
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Hare Krishna, How can Jehovah be compared to LORD KRISHNA ? In Exodus, Jehova orders Moses to kill his own brothers. For what....... Because some ignorant Jews made an ICON of bull and started worshipping it. How can all merciful God give such an order. Jehovah seems to be so envious that he wanted those worsippers killed. I see insecurity in Jehova. But Lord Krishna says in Bhagvad Gita that whoever or whatever you worship(DEVAS) actually you are worshipping me. No insecurity here as LORD KRISHNA is the true GOD. In other places Jehovah punishes wives of David(I think so) by allowing David's son to rape their mothers. What kind of GOD can do such a thing ? How can anyone compare Jehovah to LORD KRISHNA. I am not being sectarian but trying to understand. As for Allah, in Quran he orders his Prophet to kill pagans just because they are pagans. Even if there is any reason to kill pagans Allah seems to have special hatred for JEWS(Quran saya Jews have become pigs etc.). How can Allah be same as Lord Krishna. Both GODS are insecure of their position and sometimes are filled with rage.
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Hare Krishna J.N.Dasjee, I also found weak arguments throughout the article titled "Incompatible-Properties Arguments: A Survey". But I was thinking perhaps someone could write to the journal(www.philoonline.com) an article on definition of GOD according to our upanishads and also refuting every point on that atheistic article. As I am not fully conversant with Upanishadic teachings(I did not have a Guru)I thought somebody like you could do it. Just a suggestion. This way our community reach those so called intellectuals also.
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http://www.hvk.org/articles/0302/151.html The Original Home of the Hindus (Interview of Dr Ambedkar) Author: Publication: Organiser January 23, 1994 (The Father of the Indian Constitution, Dr B. R. Ambedkar, was the foremost nationalist leader of the oppressed classes and an erudite scholar. The following is an account of the en lightening dialogue the author had with him. Though the author himself does not agree with all of Sri Ambedkar?s conclusions, the dialogue is significant for the fact of Sri Ambedkar?s total rejection of the theory of Aryan invasion as ?a perversion of scientific investigation?.) Question: Do you believe that the Shudras were a non-Aryan aboriginal race? Dr. Ambedkar: No. After deep study of the subject I have come to conclude: i) That, the Shudras were Aryans; ii) That the Shudras belonged to the Kshatriya Class; and iii) That the Shudras were so important a class of Kshatriyas that some of the most eminent and powerful kings of the ancient Aryan Communities were Shudras. Western Theories Q: I know you are well acquainted with the various theories of Western writers about the origin of the non-Traivarnikas whom they describe as ?Non-Aryans?. Are there any points on which there seems to be a certain amount of unity among all of them? A: Yes. Such points comprise the following: 1) The people who created the Vedic literature belonged to the Aryan race. 2) This Aryan race came from outside India and invaded India. 3) The natives of India were known as Dasas and Dasyus who were racially different from Aryans. 4) The Aryans were a white race. The Dasas and Dasyus were a dark race. 5) The Aryans conquered the Dasas and Dasyus. 6) The Dasas and Dasyus after they were conquered and enslaved were called Shudras. 7) The Aryans cherished colour prejudice and therefore formed the chaturvarnya whereby they separated the white race from the black race such as the Dasas and the Dasyus. Q: What is the basis for these Western Theories? A: The foundation on which the whole fabric of the theory rests is the proposition that there lived a people who were Aryan by race. Q: Is this proposition correct? A: The Vedas do not know any such race as the Aryan race. A race may be defined as a body of people possessing certain typical traits which are hereditary. An examination of the Vedic literature shows that there occur two words in the Rig Veda-one is Arya with a short A and the other is Arya with a long A. The word Arya with a short A is used in the Rig Veda in 88 places. The word is used in four different senses; as (1) enemy, (2) respectable person, (3) name for India and (4) owner, Vaishya or citizen. The word Arya with a long A is used in the Rig Veda in 31 places. But in none of these is the word used in the sense of race. The one indisputable conclusion which follows is that the terms Arya and Arya which occur in the Vedas have not been used in the racial sense at call. This is what Prof. Max Mueller says on the subject: ?There is no Aryan race in blood?, Aryan, in scientific language, is utterly inapplicable to race.? The Aryan Race Theory is so absurd that it ought to have been dead long ago. Q: From where did the so-called ?Aryan race? come into India? What was the original home of the ?Aryan race?? Is the theory of Aryan invasion of India a historical fact? A: There is no evidence in the Vedas of any invasion of India by the Aryan race and its having conquered the Dasas and Dasyus supposed to be natives of India. There is no evidence to show that the distinction between Aryans, Dasas and Dasyus was a racial distinction. The Vedas do not support the contention that the Aryans were different in colour from the Dasas and Dasyus. The word ?Varna? originally meant a class holding to a particular faith, and it had nothing to do with colour or complexion. The Vedic Aryans had no colour prejudice. They were not of one colour. Rama, Krishna, Dirghatamas, Kanva etc. have been described as dark in complexion. The assertion that the Aryans came from outside and invaded India is not proved and the premise that the Dasas and Dasyus are aboriginal tribes of India is demonstrably false. Invasion theory a concoction The theory of invasion is an invention. This invention is necessary because of a gratuitous assumption that the Indo-Germanic people are the purest of the modern representatives of the original Aryan race. The theory is based upon nothing but pleasing assumptions and inferences based on such assumptions. The theory is a perversion of scientific investigation. It is not allowed to evolve out of facts. On the contrary, the theory is preconceived and facts are selected to prove it. It falls to the ground at every point. The Western theory is in conflict with the Rig Veda on a major issue. The Rig Veda being the best evidence on the subject, the theory which is in conflict with it must be rejected. There is no escape. Q: Are there any Hindu scholars who supported this Western theory? A: This theory has received support from some Brahmin scholars. This is a very strange phenomenon. As Hindus, they should ordinarily show a dislike for the Aryan theory with its express avowal of the superiority of the European races over the Asiatic races. But the Brahmin scholar has not only no such aversion but he most willingly hails it. He claims to be the representative of the Aryan race and he regards the rest of the Hindus as descendants of the non-Aryans. Q: What is your opinion about the suggestion of Lokamanya Tilak that the original home of the Aryan race was in the Arctic region? A: This is of course a very original theory. There is only one point which seems to have been over-looked. The horse is a favourite animal of the Vedic Aryans. It was most intimately connected with their life and their religion. The question is: Was the horse to be found in the Arctic region? If the answer is in the negative, the Arctic Home theory becomes very precarious, So far as the testimony of the Vedic literature is concerned, it is against the theory that the original horde of the Aryans was outside India. The language in which reference to the seven rivers is made in the Rig Veda (x. 75.5) is very significant. No foreigner would ever address a river in such familiar and endearing terms as ?My Ganga, my Yamuna, my Sarasvati?, unless by long association he had developed an emotion about it. In the face of such statements from the Rig-Veda, there is obviously no room for a theory of a military conquest by the Aryan race of the non-Aryan races of Dasas and Dasyus. As Mr. P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar points out: ?A careful examination of the Mantras where the words Arya, Dasas and Dasyus occur, indicates that they refer not to race but to cult. These words occur mostly in Rig Veda Samhita where Arya occurs about 33 times in mantras which contain 153,972 words on the whole. This rare occurrence is itself a proof that the tribes that called themselves Aryas were not invaders that conquered the country and exterminated the people. For an invading tribe would naturally boast of its achievements constantly.? The Fourth Varna Q: If the theories of European scholars are incorrect, how can one explain the emergence of the Fourth Varna suffering from a number of social disabilities and degradations? A: The whole position can be stated briefly as follows: 1) The Shudras were one of the Aryan Communities of the Solar race. 2) The Shudras ranked as the Kshatriya Varna in the Indo-Aryan Society. 3) There was a time when the Aryan Society recognised only three Varnas, namely, Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas. The Shudras were not a separate Varna but a part of the Kshatriya Varna. 4) There was a continuous feud between the Shudra Kings and the Brahmins, in which the Brahmins were subjected to many tyrannies and indignities. 5) As a result of the hatred towards the Shudras due to their tyrannies and oppressions, the Brahmins refused to invest the Shudras with the Sacred Thread. 6) Owing to the loss of the Sacred Thread the Shudras became socially degraded, fell below the rank of the Vaishyas and came to form the Fourth Varna. Q: What about the origin of the Fifth Varna known as untouchables? A: In Vedic times there was no untouchability. As to the period of the Dharma Sutras, there was ?Impurity? but there was no untouchability. Manu?s decision is that there is no Fifth Varna. There was no untouchability at the time of Manu. We can definitely say that Manu Smriti did not enjoin untouchability. While untouchability did not exist in 200 A.D., it had emerged by 600 A.D. As has been shown by Dr D.R. Bhandarkar, cow-killing was made a capital offence by the Gupta kings sometime in the 4th Century A.D. We can, therefore say with some confidence that untouchability was born sometimes about 400 A.D. Q: Can the hatred between Buddhism and Brahminism he taken to be the sole cause why ?Broken Men?* became untouchables? A: Obviously, it cannot be? The propaganda of the Brahmins was directed against Buddhists in general and not against the ?Broken Men?* in particular. Since untouchability struck to ?Broken Men? only, it is obvious that there was some additional circumstance which has played its part in fastening untouchability upon them. Q: Can we say that the ?Broken Men?* came to he treated as untouchables because they ate beef? A: There need be no hesitation in returning an affirmative answer to this question. No other answer is consistent with facts as we know them. Q: Do the untouchables, belong to a separate, non-Aryan race? A: As I said earlier, historians have made a mistake in proceeding on assumption that the Aryans were a separate race. In this connection, reference may be made to verse 23 of Adhyaya 65 of the Shanti Parva of Mahabharata. The verse says: ?In all the Varnas and in all the Ashramas one finds the existence of Dasyus.? This indicates that the term ?Dasyus? is not used for a non-Aryan. If anthropometry is a science which can be depended upon to determine the race of a people, then the results obtained by the application of anthropometry to the various strata of Hindu society disprove that the untouchables belong to a race different from the Aryans and the Dravidians. The measurements establish that the Brahmins and untouchables belong to the same race. If the Brahmins are Aryans, the untouchables are also Aryans. If the Brahmins are Dravidians, the untouchables are also Dravidians. The racial theory of untouchability finds very little support from such facts as we know about the ethnology of India. Racial theory of the origin of untouchability must therefore be abandoned -23-7-1962. (The Perspective by D.B. Thengadi, Sahitya. Sindhu Prakashan) * In a fight between two tribes, the surviving men of the vanquished tribe found it difficult to retain their identity because of their reduced numerical strength. They, therefore, used to approach the settled agricultural communities and enter into agreement with them. These were termed as ?Broken men?.
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European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Starnge. There seems to be an effort by certain Christian groups to bring back AIT. A paper on this issue. Access it through website PDF file. http://www.iisc.ernet.in/currsci/nov102000/1182.pdf In view of the fact that the ?/? haplotype is more frequent among most populations of northern India (Brahmins of Uttar Pradesh, Rajput, Muslim) who probably have had more admixture with individuals of Caucasoid background through multiple invasions of India in historical times than populations of the eastern or southern region, leads us to believe that these findings are more probably a result of multiple waves of admixture. This inference is also bolstered by the fact that the fre-quency of haplogroup U, found predominantly among Caucasoids, is higher among populations of northern India (Muslim, Chamar, Brahmins of Uttar Pradesh) than among southern Indian populations (Figure 5). However, it is striking that the Austro-Asiatic speaking tribal popu-lations of India (Lodha, Santal) also harbour this haplo-group in fairly high frequencies. The overall frequency of haplogroup U is 14.28%. - If you read the paper and see page 1187, Table 4, it clearly shows that Iyers(Brahmins-Advaitists) have Haplotype U(found in Europeans) frequency of 23.3% and also IRULARS(a low caste in TAMIL NADU) with AFRICAN features also have HAPLOTYPE U frequency of 23.3%., while Iyengars(Brahmins and Vaishnavas of South India) have 10.0% frequency. This clearly shows that all Indians belong to almost the same RACE. This is an attempt by some individuals(ofcourse some Christians, Bamshad and Co) to prove AIT and thereby prove that Varna system of VEDAS as barbaric. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif -
European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in The Hinduism Forum
Starnge. There seems to be an effort by certain Christian groups to bring back AIT. A paper on this issue. Access it through website PDF file. http://www.iisc.ernet.in/currsci/nov102000/1182.pdf In view of the fact that the ?/? haplotype is more frequent among most populations of northern India (Brahmins of Uttar Pradesh, Rajput, Muslim) who probably have had more admixture with individuals of Caucasoid background through multiple invasions of India in historical times than populations of the eastern or southern region, leads us to believe that these findings are more probably a result of multiple waves of admixture. This inference is also bolstered by the fact that the fre-quency of haplogroup U, found predominantly among Caucasoids, is higher among populations of northern India (Muslim, Chamar, Brahmins of Uttar Pradesh) than among southern Indian populations (Figure 5). However, it is striking that the Austro-Asiatic speaking tribal popu-lations of India (Lodha, Santal) also harbour this haplo-group in fairly high frequencies. The overall frequency of haplogroup U is 14.28%. - If you read the paper and see page 1187, Table 4, it clearly shows that Iyers(Brahmins-Advaitists) have Haplotype U(found in Europeans) frequency of 23.3% and also IRULARS(a low caste in TAMIL NADU) with AFRICAN features also have HAPLOTYPE U frequency of 23.3%., while Iyengars(Brahmins and Vaishnavas of South India) have 10.0% frequency. This clearly shows that all Indians belong to almost the same RACE. This is an attempt by some individuals(ofcourse some Christians, Bamshad and Co) to prove AIT and thereby prove that Varna system of VEDAS as barbaric. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif -
European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in Spiritual Discussions
What is your motive Richard ? Are you trying to evangelize here ? or more probably trying to ABUSE Vedic practices. http://www.atributetohinduism.com/articles_aryan_invasion_theory/35.htm <http://www.atributetohinduism.com/images/TributeLogo.gif> a r t i c l e s o n a r y a n i n v a s i o n Caste and Science: Hot Air and Cold Fusion N.S. Rajaram http://www.organiser.org/10june2001/news5.htm In an article titled "Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations", eighteen authors, mainly from Utah in the US and Vishakapatnam in India, led by Michael Bamshad of the Department of Pediatrics from the University of Utah make the claim that there were several waves of immigration into India, the last of which (from Europe) was responsible for the caste system. In their words: "In the most recent of these waves (of immigration), Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently, they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves in castes of higher rank." In his press statements, Bamshad has gone much further claiming: "We are able to demonstrate unequivocally that the upper castes are more similar to Europeans than lower castes..." This finding, they claim, is based on genetics. To a scientifically informed person knowledgeable about the field, it is apparent even at first glance that it is the Aryan invasion theory all over again along with its associated Aryan-Dravidian conflicts. This is now presented as the product of 'genetics research', protected from scrutiny by opaque jargon-filled language. Genetics of course cannot tell if some people living thousands of years ago were Aryan speaking or 'Dravidic-speakers'. What Bamshad & Co are presenting is simply their presumption that they are trying to pass off as 'scientific findings' using some samples-all from near Vishakapatnam-and some numerical measures that they claim indicates the nearness of Indian population groups to the people of Europe. Their specific claim is that the upper caste Hindus are genetically closer to Europeans whereas the lower and middle castes are Asiatics. All this of course is part of the Marxist claim- that 'class' became 'caste' in India, imposed by the Aryan invaders. And now all this is 'proved' by the magic of science! So at one stroke, this Utah pediatrician and his Dravidian colleagues, aided by samples from Vishakapatnam, have shown that both the Colonial-imposed Aryan invasion-part of the "White Man's Burden" but now adopted by Indian Marxists-and the Class-to-Caste transition propounded by Indian Marxists (and Dravidian politicians) are supported by genetics! But the sheen was off the claim almost immediately after it was made. The same week, Bryan Sykes, a professor of genetics at Oxford University, made exactly the opposite claim: The British White population carries African and Asian genes. (The same must hold for other European populations.) But unlike the Utah researchers, he made no claims about their relationship to upper and lower class Britishers and their ancestry. So what does all this mean? It means that over tens of thousands of years, human populations have moved over large areas, and it is impossible to reduce it to simplistic models favoured by invasionists (successors to the "White Man's Burden") and Marxists. Further, it is misleading to use terms like "European" and "West Eurasian" to people so long ago, when they may not yet have moved into Europe or Eurasia from their original home in Africa-or even possibly India as Indian records indicate. (So Europeans could be carrying Indian traces rather than vice versa.) There is also a fundamental scientific fallacy in the Utah study. Caste and language-like religion-is a man-made classification, not a law of nature. It is absurd to assign laws of nature to them, although Marxists believe that their classification is also a scientific law of history. Actually, Sir Julian Huxley warned against it long ago: "In 1848 the young German scholar Friedrich Max Muller (1823-1900) settled in Oxford. ...About 1853, he introduced into English usage the unlucky term Aryan as applied to a large group of languages. ...Moreover, Max Muller threw another apple of discord. He introduced a proposition that is demonstrably false. He spoke not only of a definite Aryan language and its descendants, but also of a corresponding 'Aryan race'. The idea was rapidly taken up both in Germany and in England." Now, thanks to Bamshad & Co, this discredited notion as well as the Marxist Class-to-Caste Law has become scientific! If their theory (based on a sample from Vishakapatnam) has any validity at all, then Brahmins and Kshatriyas all over India must have some common physical features indicating their European ancestry. But they do not. For example, Brahmins and Kshatriyas in Kerala look like Keralites, those from Assam look like Assamese and those from Kashmir look like Kashmiris. This diversity goes to show that the Indian population is ancient, having lived in the same region long enough to have adopted to the environment by natural selection. What they have in common are certain cultural traits modified by regional factors like language, dress and food. These are acquired characteristics that have nothing to do with genetics. These Utah researchers should perhaps next apply their methodology to Christians. They can then discover Catholic genes and Protestant genes. And among Protestants they may further find Anglican genes, Lutheran genes, Methodist genes, Baptist genes-all the way down to Mormon genes in the Mormon capital of Salt Lake City, Utah. Their methodology is the kind of numerology that can be used to prove anything anywhere. In plain English, their science is just so much hot air. Academic prestige: image and reality At the heart of this approach is a belief that academic prestige can overcome unsound scholarship. The goal of some of these academics, especially in the West, is not so much to make or present true scientific discoveries, but use the prestige that goes with their position to bluff and bulldoze Indians, in the hope no one will dare question them. This was also the thinking behind a recent propaganda campaign launched by a couple of 'Indologists' that tried to bluff their way with assertions like "no horse at Harappa, and any evidence to the contrary must be faked". To some extent, their faith in the servility of the Indian intelligentsia is justified: Indian journalists in particular rarely question any statement by a Western scholar. They believe that anything coming from the West must be true, and it is not for any Indian to question it. As a former US academic I have the unhappy duty to shatter this illusion: the University of Utah and many others in the US are by no means distinguished for research excellence. Some may recall that more than ten years ago a couple of electro-chemists from the University of Utah (Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischman) claimed that they had created 'Cold Fusion' in a bottle. This amounted to the claim that they could create and control an unlimited energy source like a hydrogen bomb in a bottle, which would eventually solve the world's energy problems. It has not turned out that way. California is having daily blackouts. The work reported by Michael Bamshad and his colleagues-also from the University of Utah of Cold Fusion fame-falls in the same category. The message of all this is that any claim should be subjected to critical scrutiny and not accepted simply because it happens to come from a person and/or institution that enjoys prestige. To take an example from the other extreme, the mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam was working as a clerk in the Madras Port Trust when he made some of the greatest discoveries in modern mathematics. And Albert Einstein was himself a "clerk, third class" at the Swiss Patent Office in Bern when he discovered the Special Theory of Relativity. Yielding to prestige is the response of an illiterate. Institutional problems What is happening in academia for such extravagant claims that fail to stand scientific scrutiny to be becoming increasingly more frequent? One might almost say, the less substantial the research, the more extravagant the claim made for it. It is a complex issue, but may be summarized as deriving from polarization of academic life in the US. There is a severe shortage of technically qualified people. As a result, US is forced to import scientists and engineers in large numbers. Soon, teachers will be in short supply. This shows that American universities, especially research universities, are just not graduating enough scientists and engineers-or even science teachers. The feeling is widespread in America-among the public as well as in official circles-that universities are neglecting the educational needs of the country in the name of research. This has reduced the flow of money into universities, forcing them increasingly to seek funding from outside for their research: all they have to sell is their 'research', not their usefulness to society or meeting its educational needs. The demand for such funds is always greater than the supply. As a result, these researchers have also to be salesmen. This has resulted in an explosion of journals and other publications, recently supplemented by electronic journals (websites). To be heard in this cacophony of claims and demands, one is forced to make more and more extravagant claims. Quality becomes secondary and quantity becomes all-important. This is called "publish or perish", it is not entirely new, but now it has assumed unmanageable proportions. In such an environment, survival takes precedence over concern for quality or even truth. So almost anything is published as long as it adds to the researcher's bio-data. This is what is behind publications like the one authored by Bamshad & Co. In the final analysis, what we are witnessing is a struggle for survival by a disenfranchised academic priesthood that will resort to any means to ensure its survival. And this includes hot air and Cold Fusion. Writing as far back as 1939, Sir Julian Huxley, one of the great natural scientists of the century, observed: "In England and America the phrase 'Aryan race' has quite ceased to be used by writers with scientific knowledge, though it appears occasionally in political and propagandist literature. In Germany, the idea of the 'Aryan' race received no more scientific support than in England. Nevertheless, it found able and very persistent literary advocates who made it appear very flattering to local vanity. It therefore steadily spread, fostered by special conditions." (1887-1975), British biologist and author, who achieved renown both as a scientist and for his ability to make scientific concepts clear to the public through his writings. He served as the first director-general of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Huxley was knighted in 1958. http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/navaratnarajaram/ootadd.html sushama@atributetohinduism.com 2001 - . a r t i c l e s o n a r y a n i n v a s i o n -
European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in The Hinduism Forum
What is your motive Richard ? Are you trying to evangelize here ? or more probably trying to ABUSE Vedic practices. http://www.atributetohinduism.com/articles_aryan_invasion_theory/35.htm <http://www.atributetohinduism.com/images/TributeLogo.gif> a r t i c l e s o n a r y a n i n v a s i o n Caste and Science: Hot Air and Cold Fusion N.S. Rajaram http://www.organiser.org/10june2001/news5.htm In an article titled "Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations", eighteen authors, mainly from Utah in the US and Vishakapatnam in India, led by Michael Bamshad of the Department of Pediatrics from the University of Utah make the claim that there were several waves of immigration into India, the last of which (from Europe) was responsible for the caste system. In their words: "In the most recent of these waves (of immigration), Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently, they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves in castes of higher rank." In his press statements, Bamshad has gone much further claiming: "We are able to demonstrate unequivocally that the upper castes are more similar to Europeans than lower castes..." This finding, they claim, is based on genetics. To a scientifically informed person knowledgeable about the field, it is apparent even at first glance that it is the Aryan invasion theory all over again along with its associated Aryan-Dravidian conflicts. This is now presented as the product of 'genetics research', protected from scrutiny by opaque jargon-filled language. Genetics of course cannot tell if some people living thousands of years ago were Aryan speaking or 'Dravidic-speakers'. What Bamshad & Co are presenting is simply their presumption that they are trying to pass off as 'scientific findings' using some samples-all from near Vishakapatnam-and some numerical measures that they claim indicates the nearness of Indian population groups to the people of Europe. Their specific claim is that the upper caste Hindus are genetically closer to Europeans whereas the lower and middle castes are Asiatics. All this of course is part of the Marxist claim- that 'class' became 'caste' in India, imposed by the Aryan invaders. And now all this is 'proved' by the magic of science! So at one stroke, this Utah pediatrician and his Dravidian colleagues, aided by samples from Vishakapatnam, have shown that both the Colonial-imposed Aryan invasion-part of the "White Man's Burden" but now adopted by Indian Marxists-and the Class-to-Caste transition propounded by Indian Marxists (and Dravidian politicians) are supported by genetics! But the sheen was off the claim almost immediately after it was made. The same week, Bryan Sykes, a professor of genetics at Oxford University, made exactly the opposite claim: The British White population carries African and Asian genes. (The same must hold for other European populations.) But unlike the Utah researchers, he made no claims about their relationship to upper and lower class Britishers and their ancestry. So what does all this mean? It means that over tens of thousands of years, human populations have moved over large areas, and it is impossible to reduce it to simplistic models favoured by invasionists (successors to the "White Man's Burden") and Marxists. Further, it is misleading to use terms like "European" and "West Eurasian" to people so long ago, when they may not yet have moved into Europe or Eurasia from their original home in Africa-or even possibly India as Indian records indicate. (So Europeans could be carrying Indian traces rather than vice versa.) There is also a fundamental scientific fallacy in the Utah study. Caste and language-like religion-is a man-made classification, not a law of nature. It is absurd to assign laws of nature to them, although Marxists believe that their classification is also a scientific law of history. Actually, Sir Julian Huxley warned against it long ago: "In 1848 the young German scholar Friedrich Max Muller (1823-1900) settled in Oxford. ...About 1853, he introduced into English usage the unlucky term Aryan as applied to a large group of languages. ...Moreover, Max Muller threw another apple of discord. He introduced a proposition that is demonstrably false. He spoke not only of a definite Aryan language and its descendants, but also of a corresponding 'Aryan race'. The idea was rapidly taken up both in Germany and in England." Now, thanks to Bamshad & Co, this discredited notion as well as the Marxist Class-to-Caste Law has become scientific! If their theory (based on a sample from Vishakapatnam) has any validity at all, then Brahmins and Kshatriyas all over India must have some common physical features indicating their European ancestry. But they do not. For example, Brahmins and Kshatriyas in Kerala look like Keralites, those from Assam look like Assamese and those from Kashmir look like Kashmiris. This diversity goes to show that the Indian population is ancient, having lived in the same region long enough to have adopted to the environment by natural selection. What they have in common are certain cultural traits modified by regional factors like language, dress and food. These are acquired characteristics that have nothing to do with genetics. These Utah researchers should perhaps next apply their methodology to Christians. They can then discover Catholic genes and Protestant genes. And among Protestants they may further find Anglican genes, Lutheran genes, Methodist genes, Baptist genes-all the way down to Mormon genes in the Mormon capital of Salt Lake City, Utah. Their methodology is the kind of numerology that can be used to prove anything anywhere. In plain English, their science is just so much hot air. Academic prestige: image and reality At the heart of this approach is a belief that academic prestige can overcome unsound scholarship. The goal of some of these academics, especially in the West, is not so much to make or present true scientific discoveries, but use the prestige that goes with their position to bluff and bulldoze Indians, in the hope no one will dare question them. This was also the thinking behind a recent propaganda campaign launched by a couple of 'Indologists' that tried to bluff their way with assertions like "no horse at Harappa, and any evidence to the contrary must be faked". To some extent, their faith in the servility of the Indian intelligentsia is justified: Indian journalists in particular rarely question any statement by a Western scholar. They believe that anything coming from the West must be true, and it is not for any Indian to question it. As a former US academic I have the unhappy duty to shatter this illusion: the University of Utah and many others in the US are by no means distinguished for research excellence. Some may recall that more than ten years ago a couple of electro-chemists from the University of Utah (Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischman) claimed that they had created 'Cold Fusion' in a bottle. This amounted to the claim that they could create and control an unlimited energy source like a hydrogen bomb in a bottle, which would eventually solve the world's energy problems. It has not turned out that way. California is having daily blackouts. The work reported by Michael Bamshad and his colleagues-also from the University of Utah of Cold Fusion fame-falls in the same category. The message of all this is that any claim should be subjected to critical scrutiny and not accepted simply because it happens to come from a person and/or institution that enjoys prestige. To take an example from the other extreme, the mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam was working as a clerk in the Madras Port Trust when he made some of the greatest discoveries in modern mathematics. And Albert Einstein was himself a "clerk, third class" at the Swiss Patent Office in Bern when he discovered the Special Theory of Relativity. Yielding to prestige is the response of an illiterate. Institutional problems What is happening in academia for such extravagant claims that fail to stand scientific scrutiny to be becoming increasingly more frequent? One might almost say, the less substantial the research, the more extravagant the claim made for it. It is a complex issue, but may be summarized as deriving from polarization of academic life in the US. There is a severe shortage of technically qualified people. As a result, US is forced to import scientists and engineers in large numbers. Soon, teachers will be in short supply. This shows that American universities, especially research universities, are just not graduating enough scientists and engineers-or even science teachers. The feeling is widespread in America-among the public as well as in official circles-that universities are neglecting the educational needs of the country in the name of research. This has reduced the flow of money into universities, forcing them increasingly to seek funding from outside for their research: all they have to sell is their 'research', not their usefulness to society or meeting its educational needs. The demand for such funds is always greater than the supply. As a result, these researchers have also to be salesmen. This has resulted in an explosion of journals and other publications, recently supplemented by electronic journals (websites). To be heard in this cacophony of claims and demands, one is forced to make more and more extravagant claims. Quality becomes secondary and quantity becomes all-important. This is called "publish or perish", it is not entirely new, but now it has assumed unmanageable proportions. In such an environment, survival takes precedence over concern for quality or even truth. So almost anything is published as long as it adds to the researcher's bio-data. This is what is behind publications like the one authored by Bamshad & Co. In the final analysis, what we are witnessing is a struggle for survival by a disenfranchised academic priesthood that will resort to any means to ensure its survival. And this includes hot air and Cold Fusion. Writing as far back as 1939, Sir Julian Huxley, one of the great natural scientists of the century, observed: "In England and America the phrase 'Aryan race' has quite ceased to be used by writers with scientific knowledge, though it appears occasionally in political and propagandist literature. In Germany, the idea of the 'Aryan' race received no more scientific support than in England. Nevertheless, it found able and very persistent literary advocates who made it appear very flattering to local vanity. It therefore steadily spread, fostered by special conditions." (1887-1975), British biologist and author, who achieved renown both as a scientist and for his ability to make scientific concepts clear to the public through his writings. He served as the first director-general of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Huxley was knighted in 1958. http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/navaratnarajaram/ootadd.html sushama@atributetohinduism.com 2001 - . a r t i c l e s o n a r y a n i n v a s i o n -
European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Hare Krishna, So how does your genetic study prove that Aryans invaded India. Do you have archaeological proof ? If yes, what ? Do you have proof from literature ? If so, What ? There has been migrations all the time. Did the study you refer study Brahmins from South India ? South Indian Brahmins(including me) are black. All your post tells is that Brahmins are more close to WEST ASIANS(Eurasians) than the so called proto-Asians. It does not prove that Aryans invaded and drove the so-called local populations. -
European Aryan invasion theory- Genetic proof?
Raguraman replied to Richard's topic in The Hinduism Forum
Hare Krishna, So how does your genetic study prove that Aryans invaded India. Do you have archaeological proof ? If yes, what ? Do you have proof from literature ? If so, What ? There has been migrations all the time. Did the study you refer study Brahmins from South India ? South Indian Brahmins(including me) are black. All your post tells is that Brahmins are more close to WEST ASIANS(Eurasians) than the so called proto-Asians. It does not prove that Aryans invaded and drove the so-called local populations. -
Dear Theist, NLFT are CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS. end of story. You may interpret "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me" the way you want. What is important is how Christians view its meaning. Catholic church has been using violent means as a tool to spread Christianity. Can you say they are not Christians. NLFT is supported ideologically and with raw materials for making bombs by Baptist church. How can you say they are not Christians ? The fact is they are doing what Christians have always been doing for all these centuries. On the other hand Hindus are merely trying to protect themselves from aggressors of Christian community. This is the reason that DHARMA is on the side of HINDUS and I WILL support HINDUS for this reason. There is no sectarianism here.
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Most Christians are good people. But one cannot trust these missionaries. They are more sophisticated than Islamic terrorists. Given a chance Christian missionaries will do what Islamic terrorists do. I think one solution is to wake up secular minded Christians of the world. As for the missionaries, no use callng them for a talk. They will think of using this talk between Hindus and Christians as yet another opportunity to convert heathen Hindoos. Nothing more. As for Hindus the only way to counter such aggressive Christianity is to prove that "Jesus is the only way" is absurd even according to new testament and old testament. Can anyone find anything that proves the absurdity of "only way" from NT and OT.
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http://sarvadharma.org/Museum/murder/tripura.htm Hindu Genocide in Tripura S. Aravindan Neelakandan "I came not to bring peace, but a sword" ? Jesus Christ For seven-year-old Shreema, 13th Jan 2002 was a special Sunday. All through the year, the girl had awaited the dawn of this day. For, that was the day one goes out and purchases new clothes, new toys and sweets, as the next day would be Makar Sankranthi -- the harvest festival celebrated throughout India. The Singicherra Bazar was bustling with activity. Like Shreema's family there were many people looking forward to a happy Makar Sankranthi. But they didn't realise that they were violating a fatwa issued by the Baptist Church-created Christian Al-Qaeda, the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT). Nor did they know that they would pay with their lives for celebrating a heathen festival of their motherland. Shreema would never again celebrate Makar Sankranthi. She died, along with sixteen others, on the spot as 13 terrorists of the NLFT encircled the people shopping for the festival and fired indiscriminately1. The soldiers of Christ have done again in Tripura what they have been doing for centuries to heathens throughout the world. The Baptist Church of Tripura is not just the ideological mentor of the NLFT; it also supplies the NLFT with arms and ammunition for the soldiers of the holy crusade2. Never mind that the holy war involves killing infants and torching the huts of 'heathen Hindoos'. The NLFT does all these to bring to the infidels the peace and love of Christ. So, when Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested by the Tripura police he had rather curious tools for evangelisation, which included along with the gospel 50 gelatin sticks, 5 kg of potassium and 2 kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. Mr. Halam confessed that his activities for the saving the heathen souls involved buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT over the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, who was also arrested, admitted that he received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. Surely, gelatin and AK-47s have more efficiency when it comes to bringing the light of the only revealed truth to the disbelievers suffering in 'spiritual darkness'. Those who are in doubt can check it out with another great light-bearer of the other 'only true book', Osama bin Laden (that is, when and if the prophet of terror is captured). The Baptist Church of Tripura was initially set up by proselytizers from New Zealand 60 years ago. Despite their efforts, even until 1980, only a few thousand people in Tripura had converted to Christianity. Then the Church used one of its most efficient and time-tested weapons of evangelisation -- creating racial and ethnic divide among the people. In the aftermath of one of the worst ethnic riots, engineered by the Church3, the NLFT was born -- but not without the midwife role of the Baptist Church. From its very inception, the NLFT has been advancing the cause of Christianity through armed persuasion. Every trace of indigenous culture is being eliminated through violent means. Every resisting group is made to bleed its way to extinction. The case of Jamatya tribals provides a telling example. These tribals have strong spiritual leaders and a network of social service organisations headed by their religious leaders. These indigenous sects are neither exclusive nor expansionist. The Baptist Church has always failed miserably in its conversion efforts with regard to this well-knit community. Hence, it is no wonder that the NLFT has made Jamatya institutions and their religious leaders the targets of their attacks. In the August of 2000, religious leaders of the Jamatya community like Jaulushmoni Jamatya and Shanti Kumar Tripura were killed by the NLFT, and Jamatya families were uprooted from their homelands and made refugees. The death threats issued by the NLFT to the inmates of these institutions have already forced the closure of 11 Jamatya institutions like schools and orphanages, set up by the slain religious leaders in various parts of Tripura4. Interestingly, these tribals are not close-minded fanatics. For one thing, they do not mind teaching the theory of evolution in their schools. The greatest challenge to the Bible inspired mission of the NLFT comes from the Sangh Parivar's Banbasi Kalyan Kendra. The dedicated life workers of RSS have started empowering the tribals by running many educational institutions which while empowering them through imparting secular technical education also retain their tribal cultural and spiritual identity. Rather than making them disown their roots, the Kendra made the tribals feel proud of their culture. It even conducts national level tribal sports festivals. If the NLFT is to carve out a kingdom for Christ out of the secular republic of India, it has to make sure that the Kendra activities are stopped at all costs. In July 2000, armed NLFT militants torched a residential school and students hostel run by the Seva Mission in the remote Ananda Bazar area of North Tripura5. They had also taken hostage four RSS life workers. These RSS workers were all in their sixties. The crime committed by these old men was that they had dared to run educational institutions for tribals while preserving the tribals' culture. Later, all four were killed by the NLFT. The NLFT has been an active partner of the Baptist Church in winning converts to the Christian creed. They have killed tribal priests to threaten communities and effect mass conversions. But those tactics have obviously backfired. In 2001 alone, the NLFT killed more than 20 Hindus who refused to 'accept the love of Christ'. They also torched to death a Hindu family sleeping in a hut6. In 2001, community chiefs and religious heads of 19 tribes formed the 'Tribal Culture Protection Committee' to counter the threat posed by the NLFT7. Despite the NLFT taking all possible steps to enforce conversions, the conversions are still slow. Frustrated, the NLFT has now begun an all out war against Hindu tribals. They have issued fatwas against infidel activities. These fatwas prohibit people from celebrating festivals like Durga Pooja and Makar Sankranthi, listening to Indian music, watching Indian TV channels and films, and prohibit women from wearing bangles or sporting bindis, etc. Just a year before the NLFT started all these atrocities in India, the Southern Baptist Church of the United States of America had given a clarion call to bring the light of the gospel to ?millions of Hindus and Jews lost in the darkness? of their religions8. Shreema, the seven-year-old girl from Tripura, died with bullets pumped into her tender body. Her crime was that she violated the Christian fatwa which prohibited her from celebrating an Indian festival. She was not just a victim of barbaric terrorism but she is also a martyr for Indian culture, a culture that has preserved thousands of tribal customs from barbaric persecution. Yet, she will not make it to the glossy covers of the weekly magazines of English speaking Indian media. Unsubstantiated, fabricated stories of Hindu fundamentalists (an oxymoron) killing Christian priests have been making their headlines. However, these fabrications have their use. They do help in the covering up of such acts of Christian love like killing in cold blood a seven-year-old girl or burning a family to death. References: 1. 16 shot dead by NLFT in Tripura ? PTI, January 13, 2002. 2. Church backing Tripura rebels ? BBC, April 18, 2000. 3. India's North-East Resurgence: Ethnicity, Insurgency and Governance, Development by B.G. Vargheese, 1996, p.175. 4. Militants raid Hindu Ashram ? The Telegraph, December 5, 2000. 5. NLFT curb on Hindu institutions ? The Telegraph, September 14, 2000. 6. Three killed by Tripura rebels ? BBC, April 14, 2000. 7. Tribals unite against conversions in Tripura, Syed Zarir Hussain, www.rediff.com/news/2001/aug/02trip.htm 8. Southern Baptists target Hindus, Julia Lieblich, The Associated Press, October 21, 1999. About S. Aravindan Neelakandan: Aravindan is 31 years old and interested in the philosophy of science. He is working as Computer Programmer at S.T. Hindu College, Nagercoil, Kanyakumari district, Tamil Nadu. A post-graduate in Economics, Aravindan has been actively involved in NGO activities related to rural women/youth empowerment. He has a special interest in studying missionary strategies and conversion tactics. Aravindan's philosophical inclinations are not yet concretized but are towards monism and pantheism, and he strongly holds that the idea of Personal God will inevitably lead to violence.
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Pat Robertson Claims Hinduism Violent
Raguraman replied to Tirisilex's topic in Spiritual Discussions
Dear Theist /Shvu, Which world you are from. Have you not heard of the Christian terrorist group called NLFT from Tripura. These people are and were funded by the Baptist church. One of the church member was caught by the police with explosives and when asked he had confessed that it was to be supplied to the NLFT terrorist group. NLFTs mission is to create a CHRIST's kingdom in TRIPURA through violence. They stop people from worshipping and celecrating Hindu festivals(if you disobey their fatwa you will be killed) and convert people at gunpoint. Go and search in the BBC website. You will fiind a lot about NLFT. http://www.hvk.org/articles/0900/98.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/south_asia/758342.stm " The NLFT is larger and better armed. It says it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian. The NLFT has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda." http://sarvadharma.org/Museum/murder/tripura.htm Have you people never heard of Goan inquisition ? Shvu and Theist seem to be surprised by my accusations. This is going on in modern days without any publicity. Why ? Because they are Christian terrorists. If it were muslims or Hindus it will appear in every newspaper all over the world. The reason Christianity is sane in west is because of the powerful government capable to control these groups with secular laws. The true face of Christianity comes out in the third world where government is corrupt. "ONLY way" religions have always been opressive and will be opressive given a chance. ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY fall under this category.