Jahnava Nitai Das

Is that the Vaishnava thing to do? What is my dharma? Would going to live in India be according to my dharma? It was my karma to be born here.

You admit you have never been to this area and have never seen these suffering children, yet you want to dictate what will make them happy - even though they already know what will make them happy. You suggest what they really need is more starving (as according to you it "improves their health") and more hard work in the rice fields (as you say education is useless for them). You say that toys are definately bad for them and shouldn't be given to them, yet your son has a closet full of toys. So since you are speaking so hypocritically, the best thing for you would be to set the example and then speak.

And the offer remains. I will arrange a mud hut in these children's village and provide you and your son with a handful of rice every day with salt, so you can also get the "health benefits" that you claim starving provides. Spend a couple weeks in this village to learn who these children are and what will benefit them, and then speak. Otherwise don't speak about "what they need". You don't know a thing about them, so your ignorant comments don't deserve a place on the internet. Leave your place of luxory and come see one of these children face to face, and then tell us that these children need to be sent to the fields to work.

*Everybody* who is not self-realized is suffering, whether they are rich or poor.

There is gradation of suffering in this world. And a vaishnava should try his best to help others by alleviating their sufferings. That is the instruction of Bhaktivinoda Thakur:

After a full day's work (I *do* manage to get some work done between posts on Audarya), I go home and care for my kids. That's my dharma. I try to remind my kids that this material life is fleeting, and that true happiness isn't found in material objects, but in devotion and service to the Lord and the Vaishnavas.

And in between your easy life you want to pass comments on starving children that they should be working in the fields rather than getting an education, and that they should be shown the sufferings of this world rather than be made happy with a toy. You know nothing of this world, so you should keep your uninformed comments for your own family. Instruct your son about the benefits of not having toys. Tell your son the benefit of not getting an education and not knowing how to count. Tell you son how it is better for him to go work in a rice field than go to school. Your are an insult to the Vaishnava religion.

For some people poverty is picturesque so long as it is someone else's poverty. But I welcome you to come here and learn about it first hand. Come meet the children and then comment on them.

I appreciate what you are doing Jahnava Nitai prabhu, but I think what Murali Mohan prabhu was trying to say is that if you are going to give a toy (which I do not object to at all), why not give them a taste of the highest happiness also?

 

No that isn't at all what he said. He said starving children should be sent to the fields to work instead of given an education. That is an idiotic and offensive statement. I couldn't care less if you offend a religion or offend a vaishnava, but if some idiot working in silicon valley wants to offend starving children and tell them that they need to be working in the fields instead of trying to get an education, then I'm going to tell that person he is an idiot.

When we went to Ekachakra the kids there (who are just as poor as the kids that you showed us or maybe even poorer)...

For the record, the children in Ekachakra are not poorer than the Adivasi tribals of Orissa. I have researched this more than you, and there is no comparison. The children in the photos are wearing clothes and looking clean because someone gave them clothes. I can show you pictures of how Adivasis naturally look when not provided any assistance. Also from the perspective of health, a life expectancy of 35.9 years is also about half of the life expectancy of those children in Ekachakra.

There are different levels of poverty in India, and the tribals are at the very bottom of the ladder. Their life is mostly hell from birth till death. And it only takes 35 years to go from one to the other

...were in total bliss just when we said Hare Krishna to them. So maybe you can give a toy but also give them the holy name and some prasadam, too!

Whether or not we give them the holy name is irrelevant in regards to Murali's point that these children need more suffering and less happiness.

Murali,

Anytime you want to prove your points about the benefits of living the simple life and sending kids to the fields to work at the age of six just tell me. I will arrange a mud hut for you in their village and provide you with a hand full of rice to eat each day with some salt. Bring your son so he can go to the fields for working and learn the "good life" like the other kids. It's a serious offer. Live their life for a few weeks and then comment. Otherwise save your ignorant views for your son.

though JN's response was revelatory, I believe

Your own statements were quite shocking. They displayed how vaishnava philosophy in the hands of those who are not detached results in a type of intellectual madness. Speaking about the "ideals" of simple life for the poor while living a modern luxuriant life of modern "enjoyment" oneself. For example for the starving kids in Orissa you suggest: "I say, let them know of the futility of seeking lasting happiness and fulfillment in mundane life, and point them towards true spiritual happiness." But for your own son you provide a closet full of toys. The epitomy of hypocrisy. You suggest that starving children in India should be sent to the fields to work rather than educated becaue you found "your own" education useless. You suggested that starving the children was beneficial because it "increases their life span". You stated that the real people suffering are the fat people in America, not the starving children in Orissa - because starving is good for health.

Some of your ridiculous statements:

I didn't want to say anything "negative" when this was first posted, but something has been nagging at me regarding this. Just *why* is it so much better for kids to play with "proper" toys than it is for them to use what they can find along with their imagination?

 

Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working?

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It seems sentimental (and, ultimately, cruel) to lull children into some false sense of security. I say, let them know of the futility of seeking lasting happiness and fulfillment in mundane life, and point them towards true spiritual happiness.

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Literacy just means that people can *read* their propaganda rather than watching it on TV.

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I'm sure the lives of the Gopis would have been so much richer and fuller had they only learned to read.

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I'm saying that education does not, in and of itself, improve anybody's life in any significant manner.

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I'm also not saying the kids ought to be slaving away in the fields from sunrise to sunset, but how is watching TV and playing video games all day any better?

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I said that having an education doesn't make anybody better than somebody who is not educated.

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What is the rate of Alzheimer's disease in those villagers? Do any of them even know what it is?

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You say they are starving, but haven't you heard that people who go through periods of hunger tend to live *longer*, healthier lives than people who gorge themselves on hamburgers and french fries every day?

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Jahnava Nitai Prabhu, perhaps you feel some guilt associated with your affluence. I feel no such guilt. I feel my relative affluence to be somewhat of a curse. Because of my college degree, I can get a "cushy" job sitting at a computer, pushing a few buttons and make enough to eat like a king. However, I seldom get to sit or walk in the sunshine, I must struggle to keep my waste-line from expanding, and I spend my day associating with materialistic people.

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I'm saying that those kids where you live are *already* seeing the futility of material life. What nonsense are *you* trying to sell them? Do you think that giving them some cheap, Chinese-made (probably made by kids and slave labor) toys (which might be contaminated with lead) is actually going to help them?

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I feel my relative affluence to be somewhat of a curse. Because of my college degree, I can get a "cushy" job sitting at a computer, pushing a few buttons and make enough to eat like a king.

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What's this "third world" crap? Jiva-souls are jiva souls. We're all living out our karma, both good and bad. Why get all sentimental about it?

 

I think it is more appropriate to listen to a bhajan while driving. Chanting mantras should not be done with any other activity.

Just to clarify, that statement was made in 1976. Probably no way to verify it, but it is not too unlikely. He is a North Indian, so worship of Radha Krishna would be a possibility if he did puja.

I dont believe he taught any of his disciples to worship deities, but I don't know too much about it.

"Need" is a very relative term. I didn't say that anybody "needs" or doesn't need education. I said that having an education doesn't make anybody better than somebody who is not educated.

You are absolutely incorrect, and hopefully one day you will have the intelligence to understand that. An uneducated child (and later uneducated adult) in orissa who cannot recognize letters or numbers, cannot count to 100, cannot sign their own name, and does not know anything about the world, is much worse off than a person who has gotten any education at all - what to speak of a High School diploma. Even 3 or 4 years education would make such a huge difference in their lives. The ability to count, add and subtract itself will completely change one's world. The ability to sign one's name and to read and understand letters will completely change one's world. Without such basic education, one's life is going to be hellish in this modern world because everyone is looking to cheat and exploit each other. These children won't even be able to file a police complaint when they are raped because they are uneducated, and the police take advantage of this every day. You have no idea what an immense difference any education makes in one's life in a third world country among an outcaste tribal people.

What is the rate of Alzheimer's disease in those villagers? Do any of them even know what it is?

You know why no one will ever know? Because no one can go to a doctor. When they get sick they die. Thats all there is to it. There is no diagnosis or treatment for any disease. You are so foolish that you think it means Alzheimer's doesn't exist in these villages.

You say they are starving, but haven't you heard that people who go through periods of hunger tend to live *longer*, healthier lives than people who gorge themselves on hamburgers and french fries every day?

 

Again you are an ignorant idiot.

Are you aware that some Adivasi tribes in Orissa have a life expectancy of 35.9 years? And the infant mortality rate among some tribes is 139.5 per 1,000 births? And you want to tell me that starving people live longer than "fat" americans? You are just a complete idiot. Learn something about the world before you speak such things.

Even the regular wealthy non tribals in Orissa have a life expectancy of just 57.6 years. Keep imagining that everyone is smiling here and the Americans are really the one's suffering.

Don't miss your cappuccino break. You can post your drivel any time, but cappuccino breaks can't be made up.

Just why do you feel such an overwhelming need to buy toys for kids that were perfectly happy playing with mud and coconuts?

Have you ever spoken to these kids? Have you ever seen these kids in person? Exactly how do you know these are perfectly happy children? You need to meet some poor children before speaking on their behalf as to what will make them happy and what will be good for them. Like I said before, I will take their word on what makes them happy over your word any day of my life. Your opinion as to what makes them happy has no value.

These children had never touched a toy before in their life. They get to see all the non tribals playing with modern toys, and they naturally wish they could play with them. Once in their life let them enjoy themselves with a toy without some liberal wanna-be hippy in silicon valley telling them what will ACTUALLY make them happy.

And your opinions that they really don't need education, and they really don't need to learn to read, and they really should go work in the fields instead of going to school, and they really should be learning the hard lessons of life can be kept for your family. Show your own family your kindness.

Most of the truly useful skills I myself use on a daily basis, I didn't learn in school--I learned them on the job. If anything, school was a set of hoops to jump through to prove to some manager that I'm capable of learning.

You have no idea what "uneducated" means in tribal Orissa. Numbers, Letters, Mathematics, writing, those are some of the things that these kids don't know and wont know their whole life. They don't know if the world is flat or round. They wont be able to count to 100 even after being 20 years old. And you want to pretend education is useless for the whole world because you learned the important things "on the job". You have no clue.

I'm not saying kids should be deprived of education. I'm saying that education does not, in and of itself, improve anybody's life in any significant manner. It's what people *do* with their education that makes a difference.

 

I'm also not saying the kids ought to be slaving away in the fields from sunrise to sunset, but how is watching TV and playing video games all day any better?

No, let me remind you what you said. You posted in this thread (http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/newsletters-journals/445398-toys-children-randiya.html) about children who are being sent for forced labor at the age of 6 into rice fields, and you said the following: "I didn't want to say anything "negative" when this was first posted, but something has been nagging at me regarding this. ... Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working?"

That is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard, and your replies have just reinforced that impression. To see starving children and then say "they don't need an education, what's wrong with them working"... and then you went on to say how education doesn't help anyone... learning to read and write is useless... poor children shouldn't have toys, but your rich son should have a closet of them...

Of course he was writing of children who are affluent compared to very poor Third World children. No need to state the obvious.

No, he was writing about the kids shown here:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/newsletters-journals/445398-toys-children-randiya.html

and in fact he posted the same statement there. He was writing about third world children who are dying of starvation. And that is really sickening in my view.

Literacy just means that people can *read* their propaganda rather than watching it on TV.

Again you display that you are an idiot. Reading and writing is not useless and only for "reading propaganda". It is a fundamental tool that is required to live in the modern world. Things like knowing how to sign your name, how to read a letter or contract, how to communicate, how to avoid being cheated by people who are literate. Without literacy you can't function in the modern world. Likewise mathematics is something that is essential to exist in the modern world. Those who don't know mathematics cannot determine the costs of items, and they will be cheated by those who are educated. You want to volunteer these children's right to education (reading, writing and mathematics) in favor of them learning the "higher lessons of life": that material enjoyment is futile. That lessons is really something that you need to learn, and you should volunteer the rights of your own kids, not the rights of starving children in a third world country.

These children are suffering terribly in life. They eat rice once a day with plain salt. They don't know how to read or write.

What I can see from my place of luxury is that the luxuries are killing my fellow Westerners. They are fat and lazy and are keeling over from heart attacks and diabetes left and right.

Your conclusions are completely illogical. "American's are fat and lazy, so the starving kids in Orissa need to stop eating and get working.My kids have a closet full of unused toys, so children in Orissa should not be given these terrible toys." You are a hypocrite. Stop giving your own kids toys and then open your mouth that these kids in India shouldn't be given toys.

Arm chair liberals are really sickening. Always speaking of the glorious life of the suffering children in third world countries. I hope one day you get to experience their life.

As for "climbing the corporate ladder", that's a myth the imperialists use as an incentive to get the serfs to work even harder.

Again you are not educated on this point, so your comment is just ignorant. In nearly every field of work, there is an opportunity to gain expertise/experience and increase one's salary or position. In India this exists in all fields for those with college degrees. A software engineer starting out gets a sallary of 10,000 rs., but after 5 years experience he will be getting 100,000 rs.

Laborers on the other hand, at least in India, have no opportunity to ever be anything more than they are when they started. If you are a construction worker, you will be getting 70 rs a day sallary, and in 50 years you will be doing the same job and getting the same pay. If you are a field worker, you will always be doing the same job your whole life and getting the same pay, which is more or less nothing but some rice.

Education provides people the chance to escape poverty. I would challenge you to follow your philosophy in your own house:

1) Do not educate your children ever

2) Remove all toys from their possession for their entire life

3) Feed them one handful of plain rice a day

After 30 years I would love to see what future you created for them.

Do you think that giving them some cheap, Chinese-made (probably made by kids and slave labor) toys (which might be contaminated with lead) is actually going to help them?

Giving a child clothes, food, education and a toy helps them in life. This is undisputable despite your armchair speculations of how life would really be good for these children if we made them poorer and made them work till they died.

It seems sentimental (and, ultimately, cruel) to lull children into some false sense of security. I say, let them know of the futility of seeking lasting happiness and fulfillment in mundane life, and point them towards true spiritual happiness.

While sitting at your computer in your luxurious house or office, you are writing a message that impoverished 6 year old starving children should be "shown the futility of seeking lasting happiness and fulfillment in mundane life" rather than helped. In this particular case you are an idiot. I am ashamed that a human being could say such a thing.

If you really meant to say all of this about the spoiled children in your house, then I could understand it. But when you aim it at particular starving children in a third world country, there is nothing positive I can say.

Just *why* is it so much better for kids to play with "proper" toys than it is for them to use what they can find along with their imagination?

If you ever came here you would probably understand things better. But sitting in your place of luxury you will never understand. That isn't meant to insult you, but its just a fact.

In your mind you can convince yourself that a kid who is 6 years old and has to work in a rice field all day with no food is having good fun, and that when he gets home and fights with his brother over who gets to use the crumpled up plastic bag as a ball, its really a learning experience which we shouldn't interfere with. But if you ever come here, and you are always welcome, your world view will change in half a second.

Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working?

Please send your five year old kid to work whole day in a rice field and then ask him his views on it. In fact, you couldn't last one day in a rice field, and neither could 90% of us here. 6 year old children being forced to work daily in these rice fields doing manual labor while not being fed is criminal, and if you can't see that then I don't know how to educate you.

As far as why children should go to school instead of working in a rice field... Through education people in poverty have a chance to escape the poverty they were born into. Perhaps you aren't aware that a manual laborer remains a manual laborer his entire life. There is no corporate ladder he can climb. He is going to be getting paid close to nothing for the rest of his life, till he dies. And before he dies, when he is no longer able to do manual labor, he is going to be neglected by his family as a burden. So that is the fate of a 6 year old child who is forced to work in the rice field and not go to school.

Another child who gets the opportunity to go to school (but fails) will likely be given a job in a phone booth or in a store taking inventory, and will have a slim chance to improve his situation in life.

A child who does better and finishes up to 10th grade has a slim chance to go to college and get a real job where he can escape the cycle of poverty.

There is also something called literacy. A child who starts working in the rice fields at 6 years old is 100% going to be illiterate throughout his life. Do you have any idea how bad it is to be illiterate? Do you know what type of jobs you can get if you are illiterate? And do you know how police will exploit you if you are illiterate?

Basically you are cursing these children to hell by suggesting that they should not get an education and instead they should be working in a rice field.

Someone else will complain why we gave them clothes, "They were probably happier in their natural state walking around naked or in rags". And someone else will complain why we gave them blankets. "You shouldn't cushion them from the realities of nature such as cold. You should leave them to explore their God given facilities without blankets." Such people need to get an education or some real experience and stop philosophizing in their lazy-boy recliners. Trust me, these children know what makes them happier, and I will take their word over yours any day of my life.

And yeah that guy should have pumped some iron with Arnold. What an oppurtunity. of course he was probably as intimated by the prospect of it as I would be. Arnold would have kept his word and done the kirtan. Oh what a picture is right.

Supposing he was not Arnold, but just some unknown weight lifter? Do you go spend a few hours with him anyway? Most likely most of us would not go spend several hours with an unknown person. But we could all be polite and explain why we can't do that.

Just *why* is it so much better for kids to play with "proper" toys than it is for them to use what they can find along with their imagination?

If you ever came here you would probably understand things better. But sitting in your place of luxury you will never understand. That isn't meant to insult you, but its just a fact.

In your mind you can convince yourself that a kid who is 6 years old and has to work in a rice field all day with no food is having good fun, and that when he gets home and fights with his brother over who gets to use the crumpled up plastic bag as a ball, its really a learning experience which we shouldn't interfere with. But if you ever come here, and you are always welcome, your world view will change in half a second.

Just *why* should kids be going to school and playing games rather than working?

Please send your six year old kid to work whole day in a rice field and then ask him his views on it. In fact, you couldn't last one day in a rice field, and neither could 90% of us here. Six year old children being forced to work daily in these rice fields doing manual labor while not being fed is criminal, and if you can't see that then I don't know how to educate you.

As far as why children should go to school instead of working in a rice field... Through education people in poverty have a chance to escape the poverty they were born into. Perhaps you aren't aware that a manual laborer remains a manual laborer his entire life. There is no corporate ladder he can climb. He is going to be getting paid close to nothing for the rest of his life, till he dies. And before he dies, when he is no longer able to do manual labor, he is going to be neglected by his family as a burden. So that is the fate of a 6 year old child who is forced to work in the rice field and not go to school.

Another child who gets the opportunity to go to school (but fails) will likely be given a job in a phone booth or in a store taking inventory, and will have a slim chance to improve his situation in life.

A child who does better and finishes up to 10th grade has a slim chance to go to college and get a real job where he can escape the cycle of poverty.

There is also something called literacy. A child who starts working in the rice fields at 6 years old is 100% going to be illiterate throughout his life. Do you have any idea how bad it is to be illiterate? Do you know what type of jobs you can get if you are illiterate? And do you know how police will exploit you if you are illiterate?

Basically you are cursing these children to hell by suggesting that they should not get an education and instead they should be working in a rice field.

Someone else will complain why we gave them clothes, "They were probably happier in their natural state walking around naked or in rags". And someone else will complain why we gave them blankets. "You shouldn't cushion them from the realities of nature such as cold. You should leave them to explore their God given facilities without blankets." Such people need to get an education or some real experience and stop philosophizing in their lazy-boy recliners. Trust me, these children know what makes them happier, and I will take their word over yours any day of my life.

"Guru Maharaji" is really a terrible person. He loves to eat the flesh of baby calves. He owns his own specialty ranch where he raises these calves and personally chooses which one he wants to eat.

For a Hindu "guru" to do this is just as low as it gets. Yet some people complain when Prabhupada calls such people as "rascals".

Posted by someone on another forum:

And that narrator of Prabhupada’s books named Amala Bhakta. I met him in the NY Temple in 1976. He said he had been a ‘sanyasi’ disciple of Maharishi for 7 years I think, but he rejected him as Guru and he spoke of the reasons. He told me that Maharishi secretly worshipped Radha-Krishna Deities. That was what he said.

I have known enough bi-polar, schizophrenic, and "crazy" devotees over the years. It is a medical condition which could be due to any number of causes. There is no reason to think that neophyte devotees should be beyond disease (mental or physical). Just as we all suffer from colds and flus, some of us will suffer from mental diseases as well.

1) In "Bhagvad Gita As It Is" srila prabhupada has mentioned the guru paramapara in which the gita is received. It starts with Krishna then Brahma, Narad, Vedvyas & so on......ending with Prabhupada himself. But when we read 4th chapter Krishna is telling that He fist told to surya, from surya to manu,manu to ikshavaku & then to rajrishis...but got destroyed with the passage of time. Again the same yog vidya was told but this time to Arjun.My question is whether the guru parampara mentioned is authentic & if yes then where is the name of Arjun????

The word parampara literally means "one after another" and signifies a chain of gurus and disciples who preserve spiritual knowledge. Krishna spoke the Gita to Arjuna, but it was heard by Sanjaya, the secretary of Dhritarashtra. Thus the entire Gita that we are reading is actually spoken by Sanjaya. Sanjaya is a disciple of Vyasa, and he acknowledges this in the last verses of the Gita, where he says "by the mercy of vyasa I was able to see this divine discourse betweeen Krishna and Arjuna. Vyasa also was the one who compiled the Mahabharata, which includes the Gita. So the Gita we receive actually comes from Vyasa, and then Sanjaya, and then Krishna.

Vyasa Muni is one of first acharya's in the parampara listed in Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita. Krishna, Brahma, Narada, Vyasa... And from Vyasa the parampara continues with Madhvacharya.

There is another parampara that goes through Shuka Deva Goswami, the son of Vyasa. There are really countless lines of spiritual knowledge coming down. But in Kali Yuga, most of these lines are no longer present on earth, except for the four main sampradayas.

The parampara from Krishna is like a giant tree with many branches and sub branches. You will know whether a branch is connected to the trunk because the fruit will be the same.

2) Whether in Bhagvad gita anywhere the word “Sampradaya” is mentioned??? Pls give the relevant slokas, not the purport of Srila prabhupada.

 

A previous poster has cited the verse from Padma Purana. Krishna does not use the word sampradaya, but uses other words such as parampara.

3) To develop Krishna consciousness whether attachment to sampradays is necessary or pure bhakti is necessary????

I think this is a question which you already know the answer. The aim of the living entitiy is to develop pure love for Krishna (prema-bhakti). In that state one will always be conscious of Krishna (Krishna conscious). What ever helps one to come closer to that state of Krishna consciousness should be accepted and whatever takes one away from that state of Krishna consciousness should be rejected. The sampradaya is supposed to help you develop your Krishna consciousness by giving you pure and unadulterated spiritual knowledge and practice.

4) To which Samparaday Bhaktaraj Prahalad, gopikas, Ambrish,Vibhishan etc…… were belonging to??Pls give the relevant sloka from Bhagvatam or any other purana/Ithihaas.

The sampradayas become solidly defined in Kali Yuga. Before that they kind of intercross throughout the universe. People like Dhruva and Prahlada were initiated by Narada. Narada is one of the gurus of the Brahma Sampradaya, but at the time it was not likely defined as it is now. Narada is almost everywhere, initiating almost everyone, over billions of years.

5) I have heard many a times that there is a classification of puranas???Pls give the classification of puranas with the relevant sloka???

 

There are various classifications for the puranas. You can see several of them at wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas

5) Sri Bhagvatam Third canto…..Srila prabhupdas has copied from gita press edition. Sril prabhupada use to comment on gita press as full of mayavad philosophy then why he copied mayavadi phiolosophy?????

Could you quote the particular passages you feel are copied?

...chanting Vedic hymns and “Hare Krishna Hare Ram”.

That will be his eternal credit.

One great difference between the God of the Bible and the God of the Gita is the following. The God of the Bible punishes and kills anyone who worships another God. On the other hand, the God of the Gita rewards those who worship other Gods with heaven, material oppulence, material enjoyment, etc. The Gita tells us that Krishna actually rewards those who worship other Gods. There is no envy, jealousy and hatred towards those who worship another God. Krishna doesn't decide to kill the children of those who worship other Gods. He doesn't send plagues and curses on those who worship other Gods. He doesn't destroy whole civilizations because they choose to worship other Gods. Rather he rewards them with material oppulence, long life, and happiness - and in the next life he sends them to heaven to enjoy the oppulences of swarga.

Is that so? So, if Bhakta X is a very good book distributor, and Bhakta Y is envious of him, Bhakta Y can't work extra hard to become a better book distributor, thus dovetailing his envy?

Devotional service done out of envy really isnt devotional service. It isnt the physical action that makes up devotional service, it is the state of consciousness.

There is no comparison between the mundane envy of this world and the transcendental "envy" or "jealousy" of the gopis.

His philosophy isn't the perfect Krishna consciousness, but at the same time what he did was good for the world. Would you rather be around people trying to become yogis in Iowa eating organic vegetarian meals or would you rather be around gangster rappers in South Central LA? We can find so many minute faults with every single philosophy and religion in the world, but ultimately there are things that are good for the world and things that are bad for the world. What he did helped bring in a tiny bit of goodness (sattva guna) into the modern world and that is something I can appreciate.

No, it's not Krishna consciousness and he is not Prabhupada, but I would rather see more of people like him in the world than less.

From http://www.gopala.org/node/174

I received this today from Yaso Prabhu here in Australia. He's the uncle of Lila Salter recently left this world in Vrindavana.

"Jamalarjuna maintained a bedside vigil with Lila for the entire time she was in a coma. Just before Lila left the room was full of devotees having a "blazing kirtan". Jamal said that he felt something lightly touch his arm from behind and when he turned around he saw Srila Prabhupada standing there fully manifest as we would see each other. Jamal told her that Srila Prabhupada looked deep into his eyes to his very soul and simply nodded at him gravely. What happened next is still a source of amazement for Jamal as Srila Prabhupada walked past him to where Lila was lying and he picked her up. At that very second Lila left her body and Jamal personally saw Srila Prabhupada take her back to Godhead in His arms.

We have heard in the past where Srila Prabhupada has come to deliver his disciples and where he has said that "Bhaktivinode will personally come to take you back to Godhead". Let there be no doubt that this is entirely possible and that this exact thing has happened to a child who was one of Srila Prabhupada's grandchildren. It is quite clear now that if anyone has any love and devotion for Srila Prabhupada and this Krishna Consciousness movement they will be personally delivered back to Krishna by His Divine Grace. For Srila Prabhupada this is no big thing.

As far as a recap of events is concerned, this has already been discussed in the wider press. However, the exact relationship between Lila and the boy who murdered her is not clear and so I am unable to comment on that. Somehow he had access to a gun and formed the intention to kill Lila and himself. We can never understand how these things happen and what part the Lord plays in these events in the holy Dhama. We have the aphorism "rake krsna mare ke, mare krsna rake ke" (If Krishna wants to take someone no-one can save them, and if Krishna wants to save someone no-one can take them). How can we possibly understand the plan of the Lord in these circumstances, which are made all the more poingant because He has delivered a young woman who appeared to have a promising Krishna conscious life ahead of her. One thing I know is that there were no deaths for the cowherd men and women and children at the hands of the demons who came into Vrindaban to threaten the devotees when Krishna was present on earth. From this we can understand that someone reasons ill who thinks that Lila has "died". She is now living in the same Vrindaban in Goloka where there are no demons to harass her.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!"

THE HAGUE, Netherlands - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, a guru to the Beatles who introduced the West to transcendental meditation, died Tuesday at his home in the Dutch town of Vlodrop, a spokesman said. He was thought to be 91 years old.

"He died peacefully at about 7 p.m.," said Bob Roth, a spokesman for the Transcendental Meditation movement that Maharishi founded. He said his death appeared to be due to "natural causes, his age."

Once dismissed as hippie mysticism, the Hindu practice of mind control known as transcendental meditation gradually gained medical respectability.

He began teaching TM in 1955 and brought the technique to the United States in 1959. But the movement really took off after the Beatles attended one of his lectures in 1967.

Maharishi retreated last month into silence at his home on the grounds of a former Franciscan monastery, saying he wanted to dedicate his remaining days to studying the ancient Indian texts that underpin his movement.

"He had been saying he had done what he set out to do," Roth said late Tuesday.

With the help of celebrity endorsements, Maharishi — a Hindi-language title for Great Seer — parlayed his interpretations of ancient scripture into a multi-million-dollar global empire. His roster of famous meditators ran from Mike Love of the Beach Boys to Clint Eastwood and Deepak Chopra, a new age preacher.

After 50 years of teaching, Maharishi turned to larger themes, with grand designs to harness the power of group meditation to create world peace and to mobilize his devotees to banish poverty from the earth.

His rise to fame came with his association with the Beatles, who first attended one of his lectures in August 1967 in Wales as they looked for a way of attaining higher consciousness in the aftermath of that year's Summer of Love.

The Beatles were so charmed by the self-effacing guru that they agreed to stay with at his India compound, starting in February 1968, an astonishing choice for what was then the world's most celebrated music group.

But once there, Maharishi had a falling out with the rock stars after rumors emerged that he was making inappropriate advances on attendee Mia Farrow. John Lennon was so angry he wrote a bitter satire, "Sexy Sadie," in which he vowed that Maharishi would "get yours yet."

Maharishi insisted he had done nothing wrong and years later McCartney agreed with him. Deepak Chopra, a disciple of Maharishi's and a friend of George Harrison's, has disputed the Farrow story, saying instead that Maharishi had become unhappy with the Beatles because they were using drugs. David Lynch, creator of dark and violent films, lectured at college campuses about the "ocean of tranquility" he found in more than 30 years of practicing TM.

In a telephone interview with The Associated Press, Lynch said it has aided him "in every aspect of life."

He said he believed Maharishi has laid the groundwork for world peace, even if that was not immediately apparent from world affairs.

"The world appears in bad shape on the surface, but I compare it to a tree: there are yellow sickly leaves dropping off but Maharishi has brought nourishment to the roots. Hang on for a little while longer, it's coming."

His followers say that some 5 million people devoted 20 minutes every morning and evening reciting a simple sound, or mantra, and delving into their consciousness.

"Don't fight darkness. Bring the light, and darkness will disappear," Maharishi said in a 2006 interview, repeating one of his own mantras.

Donations and the $2,500 fee to learn TM financed the construction of Peace Palaces, or meditation centers, in dozens of cities around the world. It paid for hundreds of new schools in India.

In 1974, Maharishi founded a university in Fairfield, Iowa, that taught meditation alongside the arts and sciences to 700 students and served organic vegetarian food in its cafeterias.

In 2001, his followers founded Maharishi Vedic City, a town of about 200 people a few miles north of Fairfield. The city requires the construction of buildings according to design principles set by Maharishi for harmony with nature.

Ed Malloy, a TM practitioner and mayor of Fairfield, said Maharishi's followers in Iowa were spending Tuesday evening meditating and holding a "celebration of gratitude for everything he's given."

Supporters pointed to hundreds of scientific studies showing that meditation reduces stress, lowers blood pressure, improves concentration and raises results for students and businessmen.

Skeptics ridiculed his plan to raise $10 trillion to end poverty by sponsoring organic farming in the world's poorest countries. They scoffed at his notion that meditation groups, acting like psychic shock troops, can end conflict.

"To resolve problems through negotiation is a very childish approach," he said.

In 1986, two groups founded by his organization were sued in the U.S. by former disciples who accused it of fraud, negligence and intentionally inflicting emotional damage. A jury, however, refused to award punitive damages.

Over the years, Maharishi also was accused of fraud by former pupils who claim he failed to teach them to fly. "Yogic flying," showcased as the ultimate level of transcendence, was never witnessed as anything more than TM followers sitting in the cross-legged lotus position and bouncing across spongy mats.

Maharishi was born Mahesh Srivastava in central India, reportedly on Jan. 12, 1917 — though he refused to confirm the date or discuss his early life.

He studied physics at Allahabad University before becoming secretary to a well known Hindu holy man. After the death of his teacher, Maharishi brought his message to the West in a language that mixed the occult and science that became the buzz of college campuses.

Maharishi's trademark flowing beard and long, graying hair appeared on the cover of the leading news magazines of the day. But aides say Maharishi became disillusioned that TM had become identified with the counterculture.

In 1990 he moved onto the wooded grounds of a monastery in Vlodrop, about 125 miles southeast of Amsterdam.

Concerned about his fragile health, he secluded himself in two rooms of the wooden pavilion he built on the compound, speaking only by video to aides around the world and even to his closest advisers in the same building.

John Hagelin, a theoretical physicist who ran for the U.S. presidency three times on the Maharishi-backed Natural Law Party, said that from the Dutch location Maharishi had daylong access to followers in India, Europe and the Americas.

"He runs several shifts of us into the ground," said Hagelin, Maharishi's closest aid, speaking in Vlodrop about his then-89-year-old mentor. "He is a fountainhead of innovation and new ideas — far too many than you can ever follow up."