Gaea

i find it very hard also! i think that is pretty much unviversal. i reckon the key is to realise that the mind is YOUR (i.e. the jiva's) slave, not the other way around. If you let the mind, which is the receptacle of the senses, control you then the slave has become the master. keeping the mind is check - depends on what exactly you want to control, and how far you're willing to go. Being a full blooded testosterone boosted male, i let myself wonder into all sorts of lustful thoughts... but as i began to force myself to control my senses (i.e. enactment) i found that the wondering thoughts came under control. I really believe offering food to GOd before eating also helped with this - you are what you eat, afterall, and if you eat "negatively-vibed" food then your thoughts are bound to go astray. Also, i have found meditation very useful.... MEDITATION?! i hear the GV's ask!!! haha, the fun i have had telling devotees that i learnt meditation from buddhists but i have found it has really helped me concentrate on Krsna when i am in kirtan or even my mundane work, so it can't be a bad thing. Hope that helps... Good luck, Shuvo!!

what about the things in the universe that are not in shastra?

That is an excellent explanation, thanks, Theist!

thanks i'll have a look at those links... haha, i think i'm so clever too but i missed the great big orange underlined links on that page

That an acharya might be wrong about things, albeit trivial things. Like i said, overall it doesnt really matter but it does seem to generate arguments.

That very nice, gHari, thanks! I think that these scientific issues and their relation to vedic litertaure, as it alludes to in the link you sent, are basically trivial. So what if there is a discrepency? The real thing we are all after is bhakti. So do those things matter in the face of bhakti - i think the answer is no. Ok then, let's get out of the topic of science and move into spiritiality... is it possible for any bona fide acharya to be "wrong" (i use that term lightly) in any subsection of spiritual science? Again, of course, the nuances don't matter following the same arguments from the last paragraph, but i think it is worth discussing. Thanks! G.

Hari Bol, All! My question is based on recent posts where it seems that the word of the Teacher is absolutely final, even in subjects where the Teacher may not be an expert..... moon is further than sun, no such thing as evolution etc etc (i've picked the scientific ones because they've been most recent on this forum). Be he Prabhupada, or other Gaudiya saints, the Pope or Advaitins - this phenomenon can be seen across the board. Is there any blasphemy in saying that "ok, he may have been wrong about this..." - the reason might be that all the information may not have been available to him etc. Personally i don't think there is anything wrong/offensive in this. We have inherited a fraction of intelligence from God and therefore we should use it sum things up and decide for ourselves. That is my opinioin anyway.... what do you think?

So, you want to be your own boss devoid of the Fatherhood of God? Welcome to your first step in spirituality, my friend I'm no expert in these matters but i have noticed one thing - amongst me friends, myself etc - that is that everyone gets fed up. Of this world, our relationships, our jobs, our studies.... everyone wants to be liberated... everyone wants peace... everyone wants to be their own boss. But also everyone, eventually - i am sure if not in this life then the next (or next) - finds his or her path. Sometime the path is a little dusty, a little rocky, but you make your way. You sound like you've already reached the fed-up point and you're looking for a way out - even a way out of God Himself. Well, you can of course give up on Him. You can aim to achieve the the lower heavens where there's plenty of sense enjoyment, but in the end it's all temporary. I hope you find your way ...And to answer your question more directly.... in my (sometimes silly) opinion, No - there is no escape. God is always with you, there can be no place without Him (even hell, if there is such a thing). You can't destroy your soul, it is eternal and you have an ETERNAL relationship with God.

try here: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hindi.htm note this is a spriritual forum, by the way, not a language centre good luck to you and your son Hari bol.

There are some books you can download from http://www.purebhakti.com/

how is a difficult question, i guess we can only speculate... like a mini satya yuga inside kaliyuga? that's interesting... why now? forever the skeptical idiot that I am, i am inclined to say that if this 10000 years started when Mahaprabhu was around, then this isn't much of a satya yuga (YET ) .

i think its quite clear from the text that he is talking about the present kali yuga. No it's not Satya yuga - after the 10,000 years (from now) it is still kali yuga but the movement will be winding down. Exactly how? Who knows... The text says that the satya yuga is 400,000 years (approx) from the end point of those 10,000 years. PrabhupAda: Up to ten thousand years. Allen Ginsberg: And then? PrabhupAda: Then diminish. In other words, not instant wipe-out.

The above posts are very good advice... in terms of finding a guru, i have heard time and time again that it is the guru that finds you

I just got this through an email from some friends. Some of the most vehement arguments about being non-veg have been from the camp of people who believe humans should eat meat on a biological basis - that we are built to eat meat. This is an ineteresting table of data: <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="BACKGROUND: #999999; mso-cellspacing: .7pt; mso-padding-alt: 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #000099; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> Carnivore<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #000099; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> Herbivore<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #000099; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> Human<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> has claws<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no claws<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no claws<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no pores on skin; perspires through tongue to cool body<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> perspires through millions of pores on skin<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> perspires through millions of pores on skin<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> sharp, pointed front teeth to tear flesh<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no sharp, pointed front teeth<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no sharp, pointed front teeth<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> no flat back molar teeth to grind food<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> has flat, back molar teeth to grind food<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> has flat, back molar teeth to grind food<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> small salivary glands in the mouth (not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits)<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> well-developed salivary glands, needed to pre-digest grains and fruits<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> well-developed salivary glands, needed to pre-digest grains and fruits<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 6"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> acid saliva; no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> alkaline saliva; much ptyalin to pre-digest grains<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> alkaline saliva; much ptyalin to pre-digest grains<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 7"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest tough animal muscle, bone, etc.<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> stomach acid 20 times weaker than that of meat-eaters<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> stomach acid 20 times weaker than that of meat-eaters<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 8; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3cdca; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> intestinal tract only 3 times body length, so rapidly decaying meat can pass out of body quickly<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> intestinal tract several times body length (plant foods decay slowly so can take their time to pass through the body)<o:p></o:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #e3ffe3; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8"> intestinal tract several times body length<o:p></o:p> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

permanently 16-like i think?? i read that somewhere...

As far as i am aware there is no set defitional lexicon or ontology in this case as every researcher has his/her own angle. But I would say everyone would agree with your definition PLUS the inclusion of the affect of slection pressure and a directed evolutionary path.

Hi, no not really - it is incomplete. If you use this as a complete definition, then yes your arguments of course hold.

Wow, how can you thank me when it's you who has brought out such insight?

soon?

Ah, never thought of it that way - mahaprasadam! He has catered for all His kids, eh? Wine equivalent to rasa (nectar) in veds.

Nice... And wine?

Yes i wondered about the bread part - thank you for your insight! I have a question - in the last supper He likened the bread to his flesh and wine to His blood - what is the significance of this do you think?

Depends on where you draw the plane!!!

yep. Yes, albeit undirected. As i said, in the traditional sense. What is the strict sense you are talking about? It's important that we get both of our definitions right so that we talk on the same level, otherwise we'll end up arguing about semantics

It's a must for evolution in the traditional sense - adaptation. Diversity can easily continue in the absence of selction pressure. see above. Hence the theory that there are selection pressures. Again, see above. Evolution in the conventional sense (adaptation) will not occur in the absense of pressure. Things can happen by "chance" though (i personally don't believe in chance, but this is the spin put on evolution amongst curretn scientists). For example, Kenyan prostitutes "by chance" developed antigens to the HIV virus, and they are immune from the disease. Variation is key.