suchandra

In late 1977, just after Srila Prabhupada's (untimely departure?), the Governing Body Commission of ISKCON declared that eleven GBC had been "appointed by Srila Prabhupada as his guru successors." However, many of us (the rank and file members of ISKCON) doubted this "guru appointment" from the outset, since Srila Prabhupada had said that "guru by appointment" was a bogus misconception found in the 1930s Gaudiya Matha. He also said that guru cannot be made by "rubber stamping" a defective person. One of the original 1977 "contentious questions" was, for example: "Where is the specific evidence that eleven GBCs have been appointed as gurus"? We were told, quite vociferously and militantly at that time, that the eleven gurus had been appointed on May 28th, 1977. However, to date no one from the GBC has ever even shown where any gurus had ever been "appointed," nor has the GBC answered this question with a solid document of proof in more than twenty years. Instead, many GBCs and even some of the eleven so-called "appointed gurus" have subsequently admitted that the "May 28th appointment of eleven gurus" announcement in November 1977, was and is a fraud and a hoax. The GBC has thus never shown how "the eleven" were meant to to become recognized as gurus in the first place? In short, the original "appointment of gurus" formula was simply a "big lie." Tamal Krishna, the master mind of that bogus guru system, admitted in the Topanga Canyon conversations that Srila Prabhupada never appointed any gurus, only ritviks. And worse, many other subsequent GBC lies have been discovered.....

Could be that this "tiger" was de facto the West Bengal GBC Society? Who're hopefully vegetarians..

A Hindi poet has said: duḥkha se saba hari bhaje sukha se bhaje koī sukha se agar hari bhaje duḥkha kāthāń se haya When one is distressed he goes to the church or temple to worship the Lord, but when opulent he forgets the Lord. Therefore, punishment by the Lord through material nature is necessary in human society, for without it men forget the supremacy of the Lord due to their dull, blunt intelligence. (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 9.10.14, purport)

Looks like the GBC wants to sell a farm while the devotees on that farm dont want to leave. Now these devotees say, the Deities were stolen and the GBC is responsible: "they want to break our determination to keep this farm/temple". Fotografías de los conspiradores http://golokavrindavan.com/conspiradores.htm Letter to GBC Bhakti Bhusana Swami from the Devotees of Costa Rica BY: ANIRUDDHA DASA Jun 1, COSTA RICA (SUN) — San Jos�, Costa Rica, May 16, 2007 Dear Bhakti Bhusana Swami: Please accept our humble obeisances.. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Their Lordships Sri Sri Nitai-Gaurasundara! May this be the means to communicate you that on April 16th of this present year, we received a letter from mister Manonath dasa addressed to Yamuna Jivana Prabhu, who as you know is an active member of the Hare Krsna movement of Costa Rica since the 80s. Mister Yamuna Jivana dasa, who has been the spokesperson of the devotees of the movement for many years, is currently member and attorney in fact of the � Asociaci�n Eco Espiritual para el Desarrollo Integral de Ser �. Such civil association gathers the great majority of local devotees that have served for years to the benefit of the administration, maintenance and support, being it material or spiritual of the Finca Nueva Goloka Vrindavan de Cartago, Costa Rica (the farm). This letter is of great importance. Copies of the same will be sent to hundreds of devotees. Families and individuals that form the previously mentioned Vaishnava community, have decided to write it down on its representation in virtue of the future implications declared in the same. In other words, the letter is a document that embraces the feelings of the Community members, who represent the majority of people that have, for a long time, worked, actually work and will continue to work to serve Your Lordships Sri Sri Nitai-Gaurasundara. As you might know, mister Manonath dasa appeared in the farm of Your Lordships just two years ago. He came to Costa Rica by invitation of Guru Prasada Swami, as his representative. Unfortunately, since the beginning his participation on the farm�s matters has been characterized for, in a premeditated manner and being conscious of, the creation of an uncertainty environment amongst the devotees regarding the possible sale of the farm. Furthermore, he has been characteristic for expressing degrading comments of the devotees saying they are unable to manage and develop the farm. All these, has clouded the skies of Nueva Goloka Vrindavan. Mister Manonath dasa has been dedicated to take the peace away from us, and thus confirmed, as the realization of a prophesy, the bad but accurate concepts that devotees from other countries have formed about him in Europe and Latin America ( Virbahu himself �invited� him to leave Puerto Rico.) Since his arrival to Costa Rica, mister Manonath dasa not only has NOT worried about paying attention -not to mention the need for improvement- to the social economical conditions of the families and individuals that inhabit in the farm, as is the duty of any appointee of ISKCON, but he has also, regrettably, dedicated himself to COMMIT ABUSES against them. He has not only come to the farm of Sri Sri Nitai-Gourasundara to demand for us to pay for his bills loaded with Italian DELICATESSEN that he buys for himself and for his wife at the time, but he has also come to the extreme to burst into our communal kitchen, as well as the guest house, and claiming the exercise of his authority, has taken with no shame utensils, furniture and other goods that, with a lot of effort the farm devotees have acquired though long years to offer a good service to Their Lordships Nitai-Gourasundara, and to the Community guests. As an authoritarian director with no principles nor morals or respect for his supposed-to-be subordinates, he has SERVED himself from the few means that we have available for his own personal benefit. Mister Manonath dasa has made use of his supposed �authority� to take away such utensils and money and to make use of them in an abusive and shameless manner as means to rent and fill his personal apartment (which he calls �temple�), located near the city of San Pedro. Mister Manonath dasa, far from fulfilling his obligation imposed by his condition of supposed representative of ISKCON, related to the satisfaction of the spiritual and social economic conditions of the families and individuals of the farm in Cartago, now -by writing it in his letter to Yamuna Jivana dated Abril 16th- has the nerve, the AUDACITY to ask us a WARRANT DEPOSIT OF USD$ 10,000 (ten thousand American dollars). We ask: What is mister Manonath dasa pretending to warrant with our contribution? Is it possible that he ignores that this community is conformed by humble people such as goldsmiths, woodworkers, teachers, drivers, and family mothers? Is it possible that he thinks this is the only way (meaning bringing out the money from our pockets and contributing for the deposit) that we will be tied and obliged to the transcendental devotional service? What is Manonath dasa hiding behind the unfair and stale idea of demanding such an amount of money from us? We are now aware of the autocratic ways that in the past this Sr. has made himself notorious for in every country he has lived in. His mental problems might be his very own, but mister Manonath dasa should inform himself better about the countries he visits and its cultural characteristics. Mister Manonath dasa would have done a good job to inform himself that the tragic inquisition times are past as well as the Conquest of America by the Europeans. Mister Manonath would have done good to acknowledge the fact that since 1948, the army and other military institutions were abolished in Costa Rica. It would be very good if mister Manonath dasa could notice that he is ill-treating, trampling upon the Costa Rican soul. This is precisely what he does when, in a high handed and absolute manner, is dismissing the right to vote and respect to independence of criteria of the citizens that inhabit this country. Mister Manonath dasa would have done good to acknowledge that the mission of Sirla Prabhupada was established in Costa Rica in 1971, and that the people that have continued such mission during 26 years, have done it thanks to the LOVE of their message and not recurring to the THREAT and TERROR. Costa Rica is not a country where a person that writes letters like Manonath can be tolerated and subsist for long time. We can look ahead of time and ensure that, as consequence of his acts, mister Manonath dasa is no longer a welcome person in the farm Nueva Goloka Vrindavan, as well as in Costa Rica. Therefore, his stay will not be prolonged anymore. We are sure the skies over Cartago will be clear again soon. In the letter he wrote to our dear spiritual brother Yamuna Jivana Prabhu, mister Manonath dasa makes reference to: � final resolution on the issue of our movement in Costa Rica according to the decision of the national GBCs and various suggestions�The final decisions were taken by SS Guru Prasad Maharaja and SS Bhaki Bhusana Maharaja, GBCs of Iskcon for Costa Rica, with my modest participation acting as Regional Secretary. � Dear Bhakti Bhusana Swami: we wish to know if you support or agree with the expression � final decisions �. We would like to know if you have had second thoughts or taken into consideration-for the great importance that this is given to by the Costa Rican people, almost 300 signatures from devotees that definitely voted NO in the referendum that ISKCON Resolve very soundly required in a conciliatory spirit. When it is talked about � final decisions � adopted by the authorities, without the participation of the local devotees -the reason for any ISKCON project- there is not much space for communication, exchange and feedback. Mr. Manonath dasa should have done right in enquiring that for 20 years, the devotees of the Nueva Goloka Vrindavan community have strived themselves daily to preach the Krishna consciousness and put into practice Srila Prabhupada�s instructions. In his letter from April 16, Manonath dasa mentions � principles and practices �. What new �principles and practices� does he pretend to impose on behalf of our dear Srila Prabhupada? Mr. Manonath dasa also offends us when he writes: � we need to go from words to actions �. If the representatives from ISKCON may remember, this property has subsisted for 20 years with many actions and not so many words. It has subsisted thanks to the devotional love given and very fortunately, with very little dark clouds over its skies. What did Mr. Manonath dasa mean by wanting �action�? What did Mr. Manonath dasa mean when he mentions that � we have time limitations for different kind of matters, so this is the final moment and it won�t be accepted to waste more time �? What did Mr. Manonath dasa mean when he orders: � <do not="" present="" a="" plan="" when="" you="" already="" know="" it="" cannot="" be="" accepted�?=""></do> What did Mr. Manonath Dasa means when he orders: � the presentation and discussion period must not be extended for more than 30 days�? What did Mr. Manonath dasa mean when he sentences �our lawyers will execute legal steps for the property�s protection �? What does Mr. Manonath Dasa hides behind all these restrictions and threats? What is this big rush, that supposedly to solve the needs of a whole Vaishnava community -which includes entire families, who have outlasted in unity over 20 years, now it has to comply, by force, with an 30-day ultimatum to present a complete program of �development�, that it must be adjusted only to the guidelines suggested by this guest from Guru Prasad Swami? Hasn�t ISKCON, during its 36 years of existence in Costa Rica, been able to execute a similar initiative, a similar dream? Or, is it that this irrational demand, which has to be fulfilled in a time record, is already destined to REFUSAL? In the other hand, could it be that the concept of Vaishnava brotherhood which has been practiced for a long time in Costa Rica -particularly, in the property of Their Lordships, regardless to which institution its members were affiliated-, for some reason now it will not be tolerated? Could it be that such VAISHNAVA, existing to the internal of the temples and families dispersed all around the world, for some strange reason, now it will NOT be tolerated? Could it be that the much appreciated lawyers of Guru Prasada Swami in Costa Rica, for being disciples of a guru from � another institution �, are equally disqualified ipso facto to keep helping and giving their professional services for free? Could it be that Mr. Manonath Dasa pretends to avoid the fulfilment of the prophecy made by an astrologist to Bhavananda dasa, in the sense that our beloved Srila Prabhupada � would built a house that everyone could live in �? Dear Bhakti Bhusana Swami, as you may prove, regarding the letter from Manonath dasa we have more questions than answers. We have more uncertainties than certainties. We have more distrust than credulity. We have more suspicions than faith in him. To tell you the truth, our wish -in fact, the wish of everyone of the followers and other linked Costa Ricans with the Vaishnava community of Para�so de Cartago is that this conditioned soul leaves the country as soon as possible. That he never again sets foot on the land of this country. For the excesses he has made, for his authoritarian abuses, for the disdain and offenses committed against all the local devotees, we do not have any other choice (irrevocable) than to REJECT HIM and REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE his capacity as secretary of ISKCON for Costa Rica. And to any other person that follows his foot steps. Manonath dasa is a person who has problems to distinguish basic concepts. He confuses serving with serving himself, love with domination, negotiation with imposition. He also has difficulties to distinguish between democracy and autocracy, harmony and threat, action and word, brotherhood and hostility. Also, the prabhu confuses concord with disunity, respect with mistreat, austerity with voluptuousness, humility with arrogance, and over all, LOVE with FEAR. For his demonstrated incapacity to understand the difference between these basic concepts, we do not have any other choice (irrevocable) than to REJECT HIM and REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE his capacity as secretary of ISKCON for Costa Rica. And to any other person that follows his foot steps. The Vaishnavas from Costa Rica, the members of the Community living at Nueva Goloka Vrindavan , are tired that from above we are imposed with freeloaders and authoritarian persons like Manonath dasa. After everything we have to presence and tolerate, we do not want another conditioned soul threatening to interfere, hinder, or even, terminate with the existence of the property Nueva Goloka Vrindavan , eternal home of Their Lordships Sri Sri Nitai-Gaurasundara. WE DO NOT NEED THEM! The incoherent, outrages and impositions that Manonath dasa states in his letter do not deserve our attention. We are the ones who daily protect and serve Their Lordships. We are the ones who work restlessly and without collaboration from any institution or donors, for Their Lordships� satisfaction. We are the ones who have lived and still live with our families, striving daily to serve nicely the regent Deities of Nueva Goloka Vrindavan: Sri Sri Nitai-Gourasundara. We have had the misfortune that the authorities of ISKCON allowed that a conditioned soul be present as a spiritual master. We are deeply sorry that we were blind, sheep-like, irrational followers of the ISKCON spiritual hierarchy system and administration. But, in spite of our tears and deep sorrow, we have learned our lesson! No more screaming so-called leaders, full with arrogance and bad qualities, lacking of even the basic humanity to be able to treat us as persons, as parts and parcels of Lord Krishna. Those presumptuous leaders with mud feet, have come to Costa Rica to try to direct affairs with iron fist and intransigence. When all is said and done, they are the ones who had to go, with all the grief and no glory, after breaking their vows to sannyasa in the same community. Today, another imposed leader, an ecclesiastic member of ISKCON designated from the �top� -with the tacit and silent support of other GBC�s, as insensitive and irresponsible as him- insists in perpetrating the greatest travesty of all: to sell the property of Prabhupada and of Sri Sri Nitai-Gourasundara. A real estate that DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM! Dear Bhakti Bhusana Swami, the property Nueva Goloka Vrindavan is NOT for sale. The property belongs to Their Lordships and, from now on, it will be protected by his true servants. In the year 2000, the national and international public found out about the repugnant details of the impostor that acted as leader, as �bonafide spiritual master authorized by ISKCON� for Nueva Goloka Vrindavan in Costa Rica. Today, in 2007, we might have again the need to turn to the attention of the local and foreign public, in order to prevent another atrocity, another immoral act contradicting a heightened spiritual awareness. We would do everything that is in our hands to fulfill the wishes, teachings and instructions of our beloved guru, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder for the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, to be respected and put in practice. Your servants, Members of the � Eco-spiritual Association for the Development of the Self �.

Probably the governments really took action.... Prabhupada: "It may be that government may take action against me because I’m speaking something revolutionary. But still, we have to refrain from such unnecessary hard labor. But that is the fact. Why you should work? God has made provision for the birds, beasts, animals, ants, and if I’m devotee of God, He’ll not give me food? What I’ve done wrong? So don’t be agitated in that point. You will have all your necessities of life, but you remain fixed up in your determination in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don’t be agitated by this nonsense belief. But the leaders are making plan, that if they are satisfied with their farming work, little grains and milk, then who will work in the factory? Therefore they are taxing so that you cannot live even simple life—this is the position—even if you desire. The modern leaders will not allow you. They force you to work like dogs and hogs and asses. This is the position. Thank you very much." (end) Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-8 by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda Stockholm, September 8, 1973 full lecture: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/730908SB.STO.htm?i=1973

Could be the same with Lord Caitanya - did He keep short hair? Somehow people are so simple minded to worship Him with long hair - not so guruvani, he's doing everything right.

DOES THE EARTH GROW AND EXPAND RAPIDLY? http://www.expanding-earth.org/ Inside you see the Earth millions of years ago, small and tiny - outside how it looks today. There're scientists who claim they can proof that the Earth's weight increased and the gravitation remained the same - whether cosmic rays, neutrinos, or other known particles with mass, contribute to Earth’s total mass is yet beyond the scope of knowledge, but it is seriously doubted such particles would contribute any appreciable volume of mass equal to that of the known meteordust and meteorites. Furthermore, an acceptable mechanism for their capture must be demonstrated, particularly in the proto- planetary stages of meteoroids before they reach spherical shape and core melting commences. Science in general rejects this theory of an expanding Earth planet - could it be that their calculations how the Earth planet always remains in orbit by accidential parameters is getting confused by this?

Burke Rochford : "Based on three decades of in-depth research and participant observation, my book Hare Krishna Transformed explores dramatic changes in this new religious movement over the course of two generations from its founding." [New York University Press]

sriman guruvani prabhu: "The Hare Krishnas have given up their radical beginnings in return for a place in America's pluralistic religious landscape". Burke Rochford's new book, "HARE KRSNA Transformed" E. Burke Rochford - New York University Press, 2007. - 288 P. http://indologica.blogg.de/eintrag.php?id=1155

Could there be a change in Australia? Climate report: record temperatures, not enough rain http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200706/s1940554.htm As the Federal Government considers an emissions trading scheme to put the brakes on global warming, the latest figures suggest temperatures are still on the rise. The warmest May on record in the eastern states of the country will be the subject of a special climate statement to be released by the Bureau of Meteorology on Monday. There was some good rainfall in May, but it was not enough to break the drought. The bureau's head of climate analysis, Dr David Jones, says Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania have just had their warmest May since records began. He says temperatures in eastern states were typically two to three degrees above average. Dr Jones says apart from Queensland, there was a distinct lack of cold days and nights. "If you look at Victoria, for example, there has been almost no frost despite the fact here we are at the start of winter," he said. "That's really almost an unheard of phenomena." He also says there were fewer nights below freezing in Canberra. "It's certainly very odd," he said. "We've never got this late in the year without seeing a sub-zero minimum temperature." He says the warmer temperatures are not restricted to the eastern states. "The whole of Australia has had a very warm start to the year and at the moment we're running about a degree above average, which would make it the third warmest start to the year on record." Dr Jones says the most notable feature of the weather has been the lack of strong frontal systems pushing cold weather onto Australia from the Great Southern Ocean. He says the end of the El Nino system and climate change are to blame. "A lack of cool weather, a lack of cold days has really been the driver, but if you take a broader perspective, it's pretty clear that the very high temperatures that we've seen are part of a long-term warming trend," he said. Rainfall The bureau says more rain is needed to replenish depleted river systems. "Australia has seen a return to pretty good rainfall in the past few months," said Dr Jones. "But one thing we haven't seen is a rebound in river conditions ... last year was so dry that the soils had dried right out, the springs had dried right out, so we need much better than average rainfall to get average run-off. "Many parts of Australia have had a wetter than average Autumn, particularly parts of Victoria, South Australia, parts of western New South Wales, but unfortunately not nearly enough to break the back of this very long and very intense drought."

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu was on this planet from 1486 - 1534 and Michelangelo from 1475 – 1564. Could be that Lord Caitanya's presence was somehow influencing the religious sentiment of people not only in India but on the whole planet. Fact is that Michelangelo's understanding about God is better than mayavadha understanding which seems to be at the bottom of Hinduism. Prabhupada: Spirit soul is untouched by all these thing. It requires simply realization. Great devotees like Bharata Mahārāja or Prahlāda Mahārāja, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, because they were very, very much advanced in spiritual consciousness, these ethereal activities on the external body did not touch them. Even in our Western world, Lord Jesus Christ, he was also crucified, but it did not touch him. full lecture: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750112SB.BOM.htm?i=1975

posted by guruvani: This would be of course also sriman guruvani's wise wisdom to rectify the behaviour of Lord Caitanya, who, according guruvani, was also caught up in the very same foolish illusion, "...would not give up the body of Haridas". Genuine know-it-all American Vaishnavism, a real blessing for all humanity. "All the devotees seeing their beloved Haridas Thakur like this, he had left them. They were weeping, weeping in the agony of separation. But, at the same time seeing the Lord’s love for his devotee they were in ecstasy. They chanted and they danced and they chanted and they danced. And Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu would not give up the body of Haridas. Svarup Damodara Gosvami somehow stopped the Lord from dancing. He said, “My Lord it is time for the last rites. We must perform the funeral ceremony. Let us make the arrangements.” http://www.vedabase.net

This is what Michelangelo considered as highest love in separation to God's son Lord Jesus: To be put in the position of Nikodemus who took Jesus' body from the cross and his eyes almost blinded from tears. He then chiseled this sculpture to be his gravestone....

Psychoanalysis has now been existing for more than a century. Its theory has great influence on self-developement, education and conflict resolution. But basically the recognition of subconscious is emotional and has not got to rational level. Simultaneously - according modern psychology, subconscious is the final motive power of human’s psychology and behavior. It refers to human’s instinct impulse and the depressed desires after birth. Sigmund Freud saw guilt as basic to the human problem, and those who enabled men to cope with it would become the true priests of the future. Out of this premise, psycho-therapy was born. Sadly, the religions have been very quick to adopt it. However, therapy heresy by-passes the fundamentals of faith in God: the atonement, regeneration, restitution, and more. The counselling heresy is a thriving evil because it undermines theology to be no longer central to peoples live. Time for Vaishnava scientists to present the real explanation of what is subconscious: the outlet of the sum total karmas of our previous lives. Since they have no better explanation they have to accept and finally understand why there's this vast differences of human behaviour.

In lecture of 23rd December 1966 Prabhupada says, it was written in his birth chart when exactly he would go to New York and start a global Sankirtan Movement. Often we hear, Astrology just relates to our karmic situation but never says when the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna will bestow His mercy upon us. Or did Prabhupada just say it to attract the newcomers - knowing that he has fully transcended his horoscope? Srila Prabhupada: [...]You will be surprised… Not surprised. This is calculation. In my horoscope it is written there, “At the age of seventy years he will go across the sea.” It is written there. Yes. And there are so many things still. So this astrologer was so accurate. I have got that horoscope. Not here. If some day I shall, then will show. It is clearly written there that “This time he will go across the sea.” Just see. The circumstances became so that I have come. So astrology is so nice. So when Kṛṣṇa was born the same principle was followed. Astrologer was called for, and there were good astrologers. And the great astrologer, a famous astrologer who came to see Kṛṣṇa’s birth affair, he was Gargamuni. His name was Gargamuni. Yes. So that Gargamuni, by astrology, said to Kṛṣṇa’s father Nanda Mahārāja, “This boy, this child who is born as your son, He had three colors before.” Āsan varṇās trayo hy asya: “This child had three colors before. I see.” Just see the astrology. From astrology he says that “He had three colors before.” That means God. “He had three colors before.” Gṛhṇato ’nuyugaṁ tanūḥ: “According to the age, according to the millennium, He had three other colors.” Śuklo raktas tathā pīta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ: “And He had that white color and red color and yellow color. Idānīm, just now, He has assumed this black color.” So this was the astronomical calculation of Kṛṣṇa’s birth.[...] Full lecture: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/661223CC.NY.htm?i=1966

What is actually the difference between hatha-yoga and gymnastics? I just made for Gosh Thakur prabhu a yoga website but couldnt find that info.

“So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the temple. So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.” (Srila Prabhupada, Apr 28, 1977) Vairāgya, Salaries and Political Etiquette by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda April 28, 1977, Bombay Prabhupāda: Niṣkiñcanasya. One who has decided that “This world is useless. I have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer.” Body means… Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they are taking advantage of God, “Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal, good enjoyment,” they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent stage. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nescient stage? Prabhupāda: Lower stage. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. That… There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. What page I don’t… Śikṣārtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga… Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kṛṣṇa. And that is vairāgya-vidyā, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave up His gṛhastha life? He’s the same person. Why Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairāgya-vidyā. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairāgya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I do. Prabhupāda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gṛhastha, and enjoy gṛhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacārī and sannyāsī, our, mainly, not for gṛhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They’ll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gṛhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no gṛhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it’s… Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking, within the temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gṛhastha living together with wife. I don’t think there’s any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be… Prabhupāda: Adjoining buildings… But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that. Prabhupāda: But that is temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Prabhupāda: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or… No, they are earning their own way. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it’s the same as paying a salary. Prabhupāda: Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary. Prabhupāda: All right, apartment can be… But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—“All right, you take apartment.” Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not… Prabhupāda: You take prasādam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairāgya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even if you don’t give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life… Prabhupāda: Because his service is essential. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that has to be determined very strictly. Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged. Prabhupāda: Hm hm. So he’s trying to practice… Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he’ll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional… So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe… But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They’re… But the actual thing is that they’re being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that apartment. They’re not living separately in the temple. They’re being… Prabhupāda: That is to be discouraged. What do you think? Girirāja: I agree. Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated. Prabhupāda: Vairāgya… Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad- bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he’s disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he’s not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He’ll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye [sB 3.31.1]. He’ll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature’s law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija… Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [sB 1.2.7], janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that “To remain in this material world is useless for me”—jñānam—“I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death,” then he can have vairāgya. “Stop this!” If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [bg. 18.54]. That is vairāgya. So vairāgya-vidyā… Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Mahārāja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimāi Paṇḍita, so beautiful body… Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm [sB 11.5.34]. Surepsita. Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says, vairāgya-vidyā-nija- bhak…, śikṣārtham: “to teach others.” He understood that in order to teach others vairāgya-vidyā… He is the Supreme Person. Vairāgya- vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ purāṇa-puruṣaḥ: [Cc. Madya 6.254] “That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.”Śarīra-dhārī: “He has accepted one body as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.” So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the… You decide. This is not to our… Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that “Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for…” So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He always maintained a government service job, and still… Prabhupāda: He gave so much service to Kṛṣṇa. From his family maintenance… He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he… Markaṭa-vairāgya. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was against giving sannyāsa. He didn’t like these bābājīs. They were markaṭa-vairāgya, superficially… Markaṭa-vairāgya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairāgya. But three dozen wives. Markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa means monkey. Superficially vairāgya, nāgā-bābā. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairāgya. But sex. We have… I have seen in Vṛndāvana. They have got a party, each monkey, women’s party, and the male will come to any female, “Now ready,” “Enter.” You can see it. Markaṭa-vairāgya nāhi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into… Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christians had that happen to them. Prabhupāda: Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification. Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That’s all. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original… When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can’t see any renunciation at all within their order. Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense. Girirāja: Actually their leader… Prabhupāda: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that “We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved.” Pāpa-buddhiḥ, nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Great offenders. So what news? Girirāja: Well, the reason I came up is I’m going to try to phone Mr. Rajda now. Prabhupāda: Hm? Girirāja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering that the Prime Minister may not have that much time… We had discussed that he should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if he can’t come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that, is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that… Prabhupāda: Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He’s suggesting that if the Prime Minister can’t give that much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that Prabhupāda wants to see him in the morning hours… Girirāja: Yeah, I’m going to. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, if he says that that’s not possible… Prabhupāda: That is not respectful. Girirāja: No. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not at all respectful. Prabhupāda: Then he does not know how to honor a saintly person. It is useless to meet him. If he has no respect for saintly person, if he thinks greater than saintly person, then he’s useless. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then nothing will come of it, anyway. And if we give this opportunity, that he come in the morning, if he… Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that, if he has got that sense, that “I am very big man, so everyone should come here,” he’s useless. We cannot do anything with him. Girirāja: That’s what I thought. Prabhupāda: Very beginning is… Girirāja: On the wrong foot. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he has to come to see you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh, there’s so many examples in the śāstra of great personalities. Prabhupāda: Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused to see, what to speak of going there. Girirāja: I agree with you. Prabhupāda: Even big, big kings, Akbar, Mansingh, they used to, used to come to Rūpa Gosvāmī. Girirāja: No, I agree with you completely. Prabhupāda: Did… He demanded like that? Girirāja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I… I just spoke to Gopāla. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you about this. Prabhupāda: Hm? Girirāja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he… And I said that I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake. And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that he… Prabhupāda: Gopāla said. Girirāja: Yeah. So I thought it would be better just to… Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of. Girirāja: Yeah. No, I agree completely. I mean, you’re millions and billions of times greater than anyone, so there’s no question… Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, if one has no proper respect for a saintly person, he’s useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or neither he can derive any benefit. Girirāja: Yeah. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From all sides. Girirāja: Because he’ll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already in the best position. Prabhupāda: And we don’t require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society’s welfare we can suggest him, “Do like this.” That is our… But we don’t require anything from them. Girirāja: I know that. This is your… Prabhupāda: Of course, sometimes we are in difficulty. We ask them something. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that’s their duty, anyway. Kṣatriyas should provide protection for the saintly person. Girirāja: Anyway, our real protector is Kṛṣṇa. Prabhupāda: Yes. Girirāja: He has… Because we’ve seen so many difficulties. Nobody could see any solution, but… Prabhupāda: That one Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s devotee was ordered to be hanged. Girirāja: I didn’t know that. Prabhupāda: Gopīnātha Paṭṭanāyaka. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Prabhupāda: All the devotees approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, thinking that “He must… The king will excuse him.” He never agreed. “Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done something wrong, then let him…” Of course, he was saved and protected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the examples that… Simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. But if they are actually respectful, we can ask them. There is… But if it is difficult job… Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanām atha yoṣit… We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the principles taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Girirāja: So that principle about living together and salary… Prabhupāda: That is… Girirāja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society. Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society. Girirāja: I know. Since I’ve been preaching more, I’ve been able to see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle people. I know you’ve been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really sincere workers can stay. Prabhupāda: Otherwise no need. We need their service, but not by being salaried. That is not good. (end)

Prabhupāda, Morning Walk, June 6, 1974, Geneva: [...]Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! “Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse.” Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, “Bring a cannon.” “Bring a cannon.” Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He’s powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, “He can eat the whole world.” But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity. Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Many of the young people now, they look to the Bible for instruction, but they don’t like to go to church at all. They feel that the church is hypocritical. Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they’re all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they’re sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch? Satsvarūpa: Watchtower? Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes. Guru Gaurāṅga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests… Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19… Yogeśvara: (reading) “Dedicated to the soldiers of Geneva who died in the service of their country.” Prabhupāda: So that means it was attacked? Guru Gaurāṅga: Probably defending banks or things like that. Civil. Prabhupāda: Two wars, 1914 to 1918. Swiss Devotee: They have big military poems. Yes. Prabhupāda: Eh? Swiss Devotee: Many, many. Guru Gaurāṅga: We read in the papers, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they did a survey among the Capucine priests and fifty percent felt that their spiritual life was hampered by the fact that they could not have intimate relations with women. And forty percent felt that they were not allowed enough freedom and that obedience was not good. Prabhupāda: Not allowed in…? Guru Gaurāṅga: Enough freedom. Prabhupāda: What is that freedom? Yogeśvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles. Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] …fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that “Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this.” He explained very nicely. You were present? Yogeśvara: Where? Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won’t see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they’ll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don’t care. So these rascals are like that. They’re trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature’s process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he’s trying, utopian, he’ll create life by chemical combination, he’s given all credit, Nobel Prize: “Oh, here is a man.” This is rascaldom. So what credit you’ll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation. Yogeśvara: There is one Englishman named Aldous Huxley… Prabhupāda: Yes. Yogeśvara: …who wrote a book called “Brave New Worlds”, and in that book, he predicted something that’s coming true now, that there would be a process of biologically screening babies so that men could be breeded like animals, like they breed animals. So they would take one strain of chromosomes and breed a class of men who would make perfect administrators, and then they would breed another class of men that would be perfect śūdras, and they would breed another class of men who would be perfect scientists. Prabhupāda: And that is already there. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. The, the, in Vedic astrology, jāta-karma, they will say that “This child is a śūdra, this child is a brāhmaṇa, this child is a kṣatriya.” By the birth, by the constellation of the stars, it will be done. It is already being done. And in the medical laboratory, the blood has been tested, brāhmaṇa, śūdra, vaiśya, there is different blood. Yes. The blood infusion. So if the, a different blood is infused, it does not act. So one doctor, in India, he was permanently keeping different bloods for different persons. So there is some meaning in the caste system. But that is not… In a brāhmaṇa family, a śūdra may also take birth. Śūdra blood. So to keep the blood brahminical, therefore the reformatory system is there, garbhādhāna-saṁskāra and all the saṁskāras. Before birth, they keep, to keep the blood brahminical, there is ceremony. Satsvarūpa: Yesterday you said when one becomes initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, his body changes. Prabhupāda: Yes. Satsvarūpa: Even if he was mleccha, he can become brāhmaṇa. Yogeśvara: Actually, the chemists also say that there are four types of blood, A, AB, O, and something like that. They give it four names. Prabhupāda: And according to Hindu system, the marriage was taking place finding, examining the girl’s constitution and the boy’s constitution so that there may not be disruption. Everything was there. Yogeśvara: The Vedic system is so scientific. Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is human civilization. That is Āryan civilization. Vedic civilization means Āryan. Yogeśvara: Hitler also wanted to produce a pure breed of Āryans, but artificially. He just said anyone who is German-born, they are the pure Āryans. Prabhupāda: But so much freedom in sex, how the blood can be pure? [break] Yogeśvara: …but Kṛṣṇa-prasādam? Prabhupāda: Then he’s neutral always. He’s not affected by all these qualities. Yogeśvara: I guess the blood becomes purified like that. [break] Prabhupāda: I said that “You scientists, you are simply wasting time.” Did I not say that, last night?[...]

Don't know if this is actually Vaishnava behaviour or something like business right in the Deities room?

Thanks maccoy77, yes, I also tried several times to present this at the forum, but somehow it seems the honoured Vaishnava members don't like to address this issue.

The Ritvik movements like IRM were surely not started by, as said above, so called deviants of ISKCON, but by ISKCON itself. After series of epidemic falldowns of so many "diksa-gurus" leaving behind thousands of betrayed disciples some concerned devotees started the Ritvik movements, with good reason. It is simple like that. As Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja instructed to first of all have a strong GBC to keep the movement one united powerful preaching force and not fall appart like a ramshackle hut, this was surely also Prabhupada's foremost desire. Somehow, both, Prabhupada and Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja, couldnt install their movements as such that they won't fall appart the very day they left this world. This is not an opinion but plain fact.

This is a question of the material mind. If you take a microscope and watch a dust particle from your kitchen floor, thats what this material world is - an insignificant particle of dust in God's creation. Somehow by the effectiveness of maya or illusion we consider this as our home.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070703/28279_Hindu_to_Lead_Prayer_in_U.S._Senate_for_First_Time_Ever.htm Hindu to Lead Prayer in U.S. Senate for First Time Ever By Doug Huntington Christian Post Reporter Tue, Jul. 03 2007 09:54 AM ET A Hindu chaplain will lead the U.S. Senate in prayer this month for what is believed the first time in government history. On July 12, Rajan Zed, a Hindu chaplain from Nevada, will open the Senate’s morning session with prayer - something normally seen as a Judeo-Christian tradition. Christian senators, in response, have expressed their approval of the event because it reflects the right to free speech in the government body. “July 12 will be an illustrious day for all Americans,” explained Zed in a statement, “and a memorable day for Indian Americans when prayers from ancient Hindu scriptures will be read in the great hall of democracy.” Since 1789, the Senate has opened its workday with prayer. The practice is a rare relic among the government since officials have tried to keep a strict separation of church and state in recent years. Normally, the prayer is given by the Senate Chaplain, currently Barry Black, a Seventh Day Adventist, but it is not uncommon for senators to recommend guest chaplains from their home states to start the day. According to the records, it does not appear that any Hindu has ever led the spiritual act since 1857. In that year, they had officially created a Senate chaplain, and before had always used guest chaplains in the mornings. The list is incomplete, but officials feel almost certain that no other Hindu has led. Zed has explained that he will recite something from the Rig Veda, the Upanishads and the Bhagavad-Gita, but the content will be more universal in nature. "I believe that despite our philosophical differences, we should work together for the common objectives of human improvement, love, and respect for others," the former India-native told Cybercast News Service. Zed has also given the opening prayer in the Nevada State Assembly and Nevada State Senate this past March and May, respectively. According to records, it appears that he was the first Hindu to do so among all state legislatures. He is not the first non-Christian or non-Jew to lead a Senate invocation, however. Wallace Mohammed became the first Muslim to recite a prayer in 1992. According to the Times of India, there is an estimated 2 million Indian-Americans in the United States, with another one million as part of Hindu groups such as ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) – also known as the Hare Krishna' movement.

The only thing what is precise is that modern scientists know that their "theories" (these cannot even be called scientific theories but rather blind believes) are meant to fool the public, keep them in animalistic materialism and take the taxpayers money. Thats what's all about the so called "evolution theory". The evidence about the complexity of even just one fruitfly is so crushing, that modern scientists just laugh about our stupidity to consider their understanding of evolution as real.