Raghavan

Was mine, sorry forgot to logon Raghavan

Well..I am also from India and you can recognise from my name itself...I have few clarifications here. I do agree that meat eating is a practice in India, and many Hindus eat meat including brahmins of west bengal where fish eating is still common. While I dont have enough internet links as evidence to quote, but I have sufficently read that our puraanas were tampered enough. Moreover puraanas were told in the form of story tailored with regular life too in some aspect and hence characters appeared in puranaas as per their nature of profession were described to have their food habits. I am not sure if all these can be taken as an example of shastras since they were all written in sanskrit that was the spoken language of those times. So quoting these as example to justify meat eating does not seem to be right. While it is true that there are different modes of hinduism in India, all these were started much later probably in the kali yuga after the division of saivism and vaishnavism started. Bakthi is classified as three types primarily. Asura Bakthi, Rajo bakthi and saathvika bakthi. Asura Bakthi is form of worship where people torture themselves physically and hurt themselves towards satisfying the Supreme which is common in less spiritually evolved group of people (irrespective of their social background) This is spoken in Gita by Shree Krishna. This form of Bakthi is not inferior, since they worship still different form of shree Hari, but not highest form of bakthi in real sense as per Gita itself, because this form of bakthi involves asking God for material gains and existence finally culminating in reincarnation of the soul in material world again and again. People who fall under this category generously have their different life styles based on their economical background and yes they do eat meat on one side, offer it to God also and this is mentioned in our puranas in different areas when the respective story is told. Rajo Bakthi is moderate form or the intermediate level of Bakthi in which people do not torture themselves to such an extent, but idol worship or temple worship and following rituals and ceremonies are done again for the sake of spiritual gain coupled with material gains primarily. This form of bakthi is something common among almost all religious group of people since time immemorial to present where people pray to God for different things at different times. This bakthi is referred to as bakthi in mode of passion, and hence it is not considered highest form of spiritual renunciation as there is reincarnation again and again of the soul in material world due to the wants and desires the soul possess. Again people of different class follow this and have their life styles with both meat eating and non meating type. Sathvika Bakthi is highest form of Bakthi, where the individual meditates on The Supreme Brahman without any material gains and one who becomes neutral with everything. this form of Bakthi is considered highest form. while the puranas are told in story form to explain the essence in interesting way, we should not deviate our mind on the story aspect and start goofing around sayint that Skandha/Karthikeya has two wives, and so whats wrong in having more than one spouse, Agasthya rishi ate meat (vaathapi Jeeranobhava) and so there is nothing wrong if I eat meat etc etc., is not right. While it is not possible for everyone to be born as Shankara or Ramanuja, to be spiritually renounced from young age, spiritual development should come by age and as we realise, one has to to give up their habits of eating meat, sexual desires and material desires, for us to proceed towards the highest level of spiritual maturity. This is the ultimate essence of all the puranas told in story form. Unfortunately many hindus either dont read the Gita or take the raw matter of the puranas and leave the essence. I also would blame the movie makers who make movies out of every puranas from their level of understanding without giving much importance to the crux and so for the people who dont read or understand every purana what remains in mind is only the story part and not the essence of the story. Well..one this that is glad is, there is some way or other way of relgion mixed with day today life of Indians that keep them morally and socially disticnt from the rest of the world. It also keeps them distinct in their quarrel due to different level of understandings. Since the whole essence of Mahabaratha remain in Gita as its crux, in its clear and pure form, why not we try to follow as told by Baghwan in Gita rather than trying to follow the Kshatriya's personal life during which time whether they ate meat or not. Ultimately baghwan says dont eat meat. dont have illicit sex....Follow the mode of goodness to reach Baghwan....rather than mode of passion and ignorance.....So lets follow that giving up the rest of the story...

The above content was from the following site which I forgot to mention. http://www.hssworld.org/homepage/html/boudhik/ekatmata_stotra/ramakrishna.html Regards

A kite was flying skyward with a fish in its beak when a number of crows and kites pursued it, making a tremendous noise and annoying it dreadfully. It tried many ways to escape with its prey, now soaring up and then coming suddenly down, again darting swiftly in one direction next plunging round and making for the opposite, but all to no purpose. Its tormentors would not leave it alone. At last, exhausted it dropped the fish, which was instantly caught up by another kite, to its great relief for its tormentors now turned their attention to the talons of the second captor and left it alone. Once free, it alighted on a tree and perched to rest. An Avadhuta who was watching the birds, seeing the kite at last perch itself serenely on a tree, bowed to it and exclaimed "Oh what peace and happiness attend upon him who shakes off all attractions and burdens and becomes free! What danger otherwise !" * * * When shall I be free? When that "I" has vanished. "I and mine" is ignorance: "Thou and Thine" is knowledge. The saint would say, "Thou, O Lord, art the Doer (Karta)." * * * What is called the "mischievous I"? The "I" which says, "What! Don't they know me? I have so much money! Who is so wealthy as myself? Who dares to surpass me?" * * * By acquiring the conviction that all is done by the will of god, one becomes only a tool in His hand. Then one is free, even in this life. "Thou doest Thy work, men say, "I do it." * * * Even when we are blinded by the fulfillment of every worldly desire there may arise in us the question, "Who am I to enjoy all this?" This may be the moment in which begins a revelation of the secret. * * * Think always to yourself in this wise: "These family concerns are not mine, they are God's and I am His servant. I am here to obey His wishes." When this idea becomes firm, there remains nothing which a man may call his own. * * * As a vessel that has held garlic paste retains the odor, even after it is washed, so also lingers egotism even in the nature that has been purified by knowledge. * * * In making delicate weighing one has to shake the balance from time to time to see whether the oscillating needle will every time come back to the middle point; if it does not do so, the weightment is incorrect. Similarly, one must test oneself from time to time to see whether he has conquered his lower self. * * * When the idea has been perfectly assimilated, the man will retain only the appearance of having the feelings and impulses of his own. Even if the egotism of the servant or the worshipper should remain, he who has attained to God can hurt none. The who sting of personality has vanished. The sword has become gold by the touch of the philosopher's stone. It keeps its form but cannot wound again. SRI RAMAKRISHNA [1836-1886] Sri Ramakrishna, who was born in 1836 and passed away in 1886, represents the very core of the spiritual realizations of the seers and sages of India. His whole life was literally an uninterrupted contemplation of God. He reached a depth of God-consciousness that transcends all time and place and has a universal appeal. Seekers of God of all religions feel irresistibly drawn to his life and teachings. Sri Ramakrishna, as a silent force, influences the spiritual thought currents of our time. He is a figure of recent history and his life and teachings have not yet been obscured by loving legends and doubtful myths. Through his God-intoxicated life Sri Ramakrishna proved that the revelation of God takes place at all times and that God-realization is not the monopoly of any particular age, country, or people. In him, deepest spirituality and broadest catholicity stood side by side. The God-man of nineteenth-century India did not found any cult, nor did he show a new path to salvation. His message was his God-consciousness. When God-consciousness falls short, traditions become dogmatic and oppressive and religious teachings lose their transforming power. At a time when the very foundation of religion, faith in God, was crumbling under the relentless blows of materialism and skepticism, Sri Ramakrishna, through his burning spiritual realizations, demonstrated beyond doubt the reality of God and the validity of the time-honored teachings of all the prophets and saviors of the past, and thus restored the falling edifice of religion on a secure foundation. Drawn by the magnetism of Sri Ramakrishna's divine personality, people flocked to him from far and near -- men and women, young and old, philosophers and theologians, philanthropists and humanists, atheists and agnostics, Hindus and Brahmos, Christians and Muslims, seekers of truth of all races, creeds and castes. His small room in the Dakshineswar temple garden on the outskirts of the city of Calcutta became a veritable parliament of religions. Everyone who came to him felt uplifted by his profound God-consciousness, boundless love, and universal outlook. Each seeker saw in him the highest manifestation of his own ideal. By coming near him the impure became pure, the pure became purer, and the sinner was transformed into a saint. The greatest contribution of Sri Ramakrishna to the modern world is his message of the harmony of religions. To Sri Ramakrishna all religions are the revelation of God in His diverse aspects to satisfy the manifold demands of human minds. Like different photographs of a building taken from different angles, different religions give us the pictures of one truth from different standpoints. They are not contradictory but complementary. Sri Ramakrishna faithfully practiced the spiritual disciplines of different religions and came to the realization that all of them lead to the same goal. Thus he declared, "As many faiths, so many paths." The paths vary, but the goal remains the same. Harmony of religions is not uniformity; it is unity in diversity. It is not a fusion of religions, but a fellowship of religions based on their common goal -- communion with God. This harmony is to be realized by deepening our individual God-consciousness. In the present-day world, threatened by nuclear war and torn by religious intolerance, Sri Ramakrishna's message of harmony gives us hope and shows the way. May his life and teachings ever inspire us. Just because someone does not belong to our school of thoughts, that does not mean they are false saints. Just because someone ate non-vegetarian at some time point in their life again does not mean they are not pure in their minds. For that matter, rishis of the past were also eating meat at times. Viswamithra Rishi was a Kshathriya by birth and was eating meat and had sexual life before he meditated and became a brahma rishi and realsied the Supreme Brahman. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa although married was a total celebate out of his bakthi towards Durga Devi. He did inspire many people towards path of spirituality. I think it is not right to comment blatantly on a spiritual personality. I honestly did not expect this from administrator of this site.

I guess you need to understand better. One who has understood Gita will not be breaking his head about a haircut or anything and everything will look trivial in the material world for him or her. Such person will not be a slave to his or her own senses and getting worked up or getting angry is actually slavery to our own sense of self ego that is affected when some one make fun. Surrendering to Krishna is nothing but giving up the self ego and looking at everything without any sense of attachment towards that and keep thinking of Lord all the time and working with perfection in our devotion. Many people who chants or enter into devotional life, think of Krishna all the time, but how far they have actually given up the thought of self, self pleasure seeking stuffs, determines the percentage of actual devotion. there are many people who get angry for everything inspite of their constant prayer and how much ever they read Gita, this does not mean Krishna does not bless them. Its actually they dont put of greater effort in their understanding. BY the way does Krishna works as a servant to his pure devotee? Yes..this is what He exemplified in the incident of Sudhama for whom Krishna washes his foot and massages to get him relived of his long tiresome walking to see his friend Krishna. Although Sudhama got so much of material comforts after visiting Krishna, he always remains unattached with everything.

An haircut is just a minor thing one would ever imagine. For this reason did you feel like killing yourself and also felt like killing the barber? I know it was not seriious or may not be serious, but the very expression just for a haircut is actually something that shows, may be you have been reading Gita, but not actually understood. There are so many people in India who does not even get their food or shelter and not only in India, in many parts of the world including US there are homeless people. Having said that you read Gita, what difference does it make between you and someone who has not read it, for the sake of getting angry with Barber or God for the sake of a bad hair cut. After all hair is going to grow in 15 days or a month's time, while people loose certain things in life permenantly in accidents like hand or legs. Read the chapters of Gita from 12 to 18 several times until you stop getting worked up for little things or anything. Until you stop getting worked up, you have not actually understood Gita and you cant say that you were even ex-vaishnava. There cannot be an ex-vaishnava once someone has really understood Gita to a larger extent and start applying in his or her life. One who has understood to a greater extent would not call himself as ex-vaishnava or future vaishnava. Do you know why people shave their heads. its actually to humble themselves in front of The supreme. Of course most people do it as an offering for some material benefits. Krishna says there are three modes of existence. MOde of goodness, Mode of Passion and Mode of ignorance. As long as one lives in mode of ignorance and passion you get worked up and this is not the stage of proper understanding of Gita. one who has overcome these things enter into mode of goodness. Please read the chapters 12 to 18 again and again and again until you really start seeing everything with the same eye. I am not advising or suggesting as a lip service, but after so much of personal experience and self control I am telling you this.

Whether you are able to perform the "Divesam" ceremony to (forefathers and to the departed) in proper form or not, one can still liberate the souls and make them reach Shri Vaikuntam just by reciting the 11th chapter of BagawathGita everyday. By reciting this, one not only liberates the departed souls, but also he gets purified in his mind and finally he also reaches Vaikuntam to serve Shree Hari. Whenver anybody die in my family circle or anyone known to me or if there is a mass murder or killing due to accidents or natural calamities, I invariably read the 11th chapter and pray to Lord to give moksha to those souls. To do this one need not even be a blood relative. All that he or she needs is to be totally devoted to Lord in his mind and actions.

the above post was posted by me. I also like to mention that even now while I was writing the post above chanting Vasudeva's name my eyes are filled with tears, because its the total surrendering faith that saved my father..I know that anyone who is born has to die someday, but I was chanting His name and begging Lord to extend my father's life for somemore time and as always He is merciful. So its the devotion and faith that makes Him move..

Nice topic to talk about.. I have a question..We all pray to Krishna since we read Gita..There could be people on earth who are also controlling their senses, but totally brought up in a different culture and pray to different gurus or God in the form they are taught. Simillarly, the present day christians dont beleive in reincarnation of soul or rebirth of the soul in karmic cycle.. So Does reaching Vaikunta or Goloka depends on what we follow? as also does rebirth depends on what path of religion we follow? Some christians I interact with even beleive that although or even if the human does mistkes, if you go to church and ask for forgiveness, God keeps forgiving you everytime and Jesus takes the sins and hence he or she still continues and one even said anyway at the time of old age or death if you just say God, you go to heaven eternally and they dont beleive in rebirth. So what is true. Only one can be constant, right. Irrespective of whether we belive in rebirth or not, souls have rebirth or should have rebirth as per Gita, based on the karmic actions of the soul in previous body.. after doing all kinds of atrocities and nonsense, if one says God at the end of his or her life, and if they also still reach heaven eternally, then it does not make any sense for people who fix their mind controlled on Krishna only. So whats the explanation for these. Thanks in advance

One who prays to any forms of Lord either towards His whole form or his substitute lesser form certainly are not dumb or should not be called as dumb, because for a soul to get the realization of doing prayer itself is a blessing and hence they are not dumb. Everyone is intelligent in one way or other way. Mathematician Ramanujam who was an ardent devotee of Shree Hari and Ranganayaki Thayar in SriRangam was good only at Maths, but poor in other subjects and he was not classified as dumb but highly revered throughout the world. I will tell you an example. I had been to Hare Krishna temple in one of the major cities of US in April of this year. I noticed at the end of the day a couple brings their son and he sings bajan on Krishna during aarathi time. That boy is found retarded by all means and his parents with so much devotion towards Lord taught that boy to sing one song on Krishna every day when they visits to the temple. ALl that the boy knows is only that song and nothing else....What would you call this little boy just because he does not do things like you and me....What is there in his mind when he sings that particular song everyday, Baghwan only knows....So would you call him dumb? I would call him as the most blessed soul and his parents are the real devotees who is helping that physically and mentally challenged boy to think and sing on Krishna. Its not right for anyone to classify someone as dumb as each one of us are dumb in certain things or many things especially when it comes to spirituality and spiritual maturity and intelligent in certain few things only by the Grace of Lord.

The following is the sloka that is chant to meditate upon Hayagriva Swami Gnananandha Mayanthelam nirmala spatikarkritham Aadharam sarva Vidhyaanaam Hayagriva Upaasmahae

Hayagriva who is incarnation of Shree Hari was the one who gave the world the famous "Lalitha Sahasranam" thousand names of Lord's energy and one who chants this everyday will get rid of all sins. Sage Agasthiya was praying to Shree Hari performing severe penances to find a way to remove the sufferings of material world. Mahavishnu appeared in front of him and told him to approach Hayagriva Rishi who is His incarnation and will give the solution. When Agasthiya approached Hayagriva, He blessed him with Lalitha Sahasranama and told that one who chants this with purity of mind and cleanliness will be rid of all sins and papakarma. ONe who chants this by keeping a vessel of pure water in front of them and after chanting, if they pour that water on top of their head, is supposed to be rid of all doshas and curse. Another interesting incident of Lalitha Sahasranama is it is mentioned in Sankara's life history that when He wanted to write the commentary for Lalitha sahasranama and asked one of His disciples to bring the chuvadi (roll of dry leaves iin which they used to write in old days) and he brought the Vishnu sahasranama. He told him to bring Lalitha Sahasranama chuvadi. By then since sun set has already begun, after he meditated, he decided to begin the writing the next day. When Sankara after meditation sat to start writing, He again found Vishnu sahasranama on his desk and not Lalitha Sahasranama. So He felt that Lord wants HIM to write that first and hence after finishing the commentary on Vishnu Sahasranama, he wrote the commentary for Lalitha Sahasranama.

I have never seen a picture or statue of Lord Chaithanya with Peacock feather on His head. I always associate it with Shree Krishna and His another form Karthikeya.. Anyways its nice thanks

All guru will appear as wrong initially for a student. NO child likes his/her teacher in first standard or even sometimes at Phd level too. I am sharing my experience. In spiritual development, when you go for a guru, to an extent you are a grown up adult by the time you search and reach him. Wait patiently for a while, analyse with your worldly knowledge and try to listen. Initially it may appear that he is controlling you with his attitudes. But take it as a test for your patience even if he is really controlling you (not harrassment of other kinds). Focus your mind to learn what for you approached him. If there is something radically wrong in the Guru (that could be rare or even common which depends on your luck ) where in some cases they harass the student out of their ego but call themselves spiritually developed but actually not developed, then you may chose to find another one and this does not mean all Gurus are like that. One are two does not define the whole group. Until you find a real one, you can still read Swami Prabupaadaa's work by accepting him as your Guru since he is representative of Lord. This is my experience..

I have nto seen any picture of Ram in his childhood. Krishna being the Poornavathar did miracles right from He was born and hence there are many pictures of Shree Krishna for all ages and not for Ram..If you want to see Ram as baby, then I would suggest you to give a bow instead of flute on Krishna's hand if you can make paintings or drawings and then He becomes Ram. I will try one and if it comes well, will post it here

Materializm is also there in India very much besides spirituality. I would not say or accept that everyone in India is spiritually oriented. there is a large group of beleifs in India on God and the ancient culture of the sanctity of marriage and traditions of religion is also followed still besides being materialistic. I guess materialism is something that always exists in majority of the crowd, but besides being materialistic, they also pray sincerely and follow atleast the crux of traditions. Howmuch ever western culture is influencing, still something sacred is existing. We have to wait and see for the present younger generations in future how they take up the moral values. There is somekind of balance on this aspect also, while some people go away from the traditions and call them superstition, another group yet like to follow and this has been existing for quite long. But even people who dont beleive in religion and call God as just stone also have the moral values when it comes to family traditions and customs. For anything and everything God always the first place in India to start with. NOt just for spiritual renuciation, but even while starting a business, they first do pooja for Ganesha, Laxmi-Narayana or Shiva-Parvathi. So I would say spirituality is part of materialistic life in India. On one side due to this reason, large crowd of people get cheated or carried away by false saadhus and sanyasis from premandha, mukthanandha to now proven satya sai baba recently, on the other hand the basic level of beleif and moral fear of getting punished by Lord or the Supreme power is something soaked in the culture (Well... please delete the politicians from this soaked culture out of which the country is rotten now) Among this mixed crowd of people, still real saints also come now and then and spread the Bakthi yoga to the people. People are attracted to the olden Indian traditions and culture and not to the changing snobish India trying to follow the western culture. There are now gay activists there in capital city which is western influence. If you go to Bombay and Bangalore, you can see large number of girls dressed up like westerners especially the younger generations. But still people maintain the celebacy before marriage in lare percentage even if they go for dating. Its probably dating without physical relationship out of wedlock. I would say there is a mixture of traditions there, but the basic level of spiritual path is maintained surprisingly at all levels. As mentioned earlier we have to wait and see. Hope some avathar in the form of real sanyasi comes and change the people's mind on their influence of western culture in India.

This is something I also used to amaze and glad to feel that I was born in India. Great civilization has always been existing in Indian Subcontinent while other continents were only later discovered for human immigration. Probably people would have been living which may not have been recorded, but now archaeological evidences are showing. But why Indian Subcontinent was chosen by God for His establishment of Dharma? is something. If you also observe, the morality and chastity and sanctity of marriage is also well preserved in India than christian based countries inspite of the fact that India was invaded from every possible side of the country for centuries together. Actually the muslims and christians of India too follow the common culture (probably because their ancestors are coverted from sanathana dharma) or even others who come begin to follow the values existing. Leave behind the religious priniciples and language, there is something uniquue in India from Himalayas to Kanyakumari which keeps the traditions and culture still intact. Even today, you can see women getting up early morning and sprinkle water in front the house and put rangoli or a small kolam to invite laxmi Devi. Primarily the basic level of spirituality still exists in the society. There's something in the place which is blessed that cannot be explained and that is something Divine. In Kali yuga itself from Buddha to Prabupaada great people came from this country to spread the Darmic principles in the world. Why from here? I also like to know.