sant

jai ram

No wait you havent understood what im saying.

ITs so basic.You only disagreed to it.

DOnt you beleive that you decide things based on the information you have.

think you meant to ask will there be Eternal punishment in Hell.

 

 

correct

Sant, I think melvin is right. Let’s agree to disagree on this issue. I think by now I’ve made my definition of knowledge perfectly clear, and I’m not going to discuss any definition of logic. If you still don’t understand my point of view, then you can reread my last posts. I don’t think that I can make it any clearer for you. And if you disagree, then that’s fine. All I can say is that my definition of knowledge is the general scientific definition, which works for me, and which is what is generally understood as (scientific) knowledge.

You had said that definiton of knowledge is being argued upon.

Heres one-

knowledge is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information

NArsingh read carefully biturbo is for biba and not biserka.He hasnt said about biserka.

nirvikalpa samadhi which is considered as the highest perfectional stage automatically liberates a soul but he might live in that state for a period not extending 22 days .

can you explain that more sambya

Only hell to agree.

Ok lets take it this way do you belive that people rot in hell eternally.

Sant, did you agree with Primate to disagree

What does primate agree on.What is you definiton of logic or knowledge primate.

Nowadays, most people believe communication satellites exist, and a few people actually know that they do.

 

You mean how they do.

No this is confusing.What did you mean by eternal hell can you be clear sir.

The fact that you anticipate that if you press Enter the cursor will jump to the next line, is not knowledge per se. Until you logically understand why this is the case, I would call it belief and not knowledge. Likewise, you can find out the function of all the keys on your keyboard simply by trial and error. Yet, until you logically understand the working of the keyboard, I would say that

I was thinking you would say something like that.

Ok now you tell the logic why this happens.

people logically understood that it must be possible.

Yes so it is both ways.isnt it. With Logic you can have some more knowledge and by knowledge you had applied that logic.

Now the people who made the satellites beleived they could so its a matter of beleif that made them do it.

here बिसर्का=bisarkaa

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/sanskrit/26889-english-names-into-hindi-script-10.html#post1150469

narsingh its not right.

please delete.

Yamaraja still its warden

yamraj is himself not eternal.

Dont you know he was killed even before hell was destroyed by lord shiva.

Im sorry i still dont get what you meant by waht you said.

even change in meaning in different tracts of the same text, from page to page, e.g. The Devi Mahatmyam. So where is the use of such pos

Interesting devi mahatmayan has been changed.

Actually, Sant, the definition of knowledge is still an ongoing debate in epistemology, starting with Plato's formulation of knowledge as "justified true belief". (see: Knowledge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Personally I adhere to the view that (scientific) knowledge must be based on some form of logical understanding or (verifiable) formal theory, otherwise it would just be belief or speculation. I agree that as far as a logical argument is based on (or logically inferred from) other logical arguments, this can also be called knowledge. However, logic in itself cannot be considered knowledge, because a logical system is nothing but a minimal set of (arbitrary) axioms and inference rules, which per definition are not based on any other true assumptions.

 

 

egasmaratha wahen you say shiva is formless that means he doesnt have a form so ultimately you refer to brahm isnt it.

Actually, Sant, the definition of knowledge is still an ongoing debate in epistemology, starting with Plato's formulation of knowledge as "justified true belief". (see: Knowledge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Personally I adhere to the view that (scientific) knowledge must be based on some form of logical understanding or (verifiable) formal theory, otherwise it would just be belief or speculation. I agree that as far as a logical argument is based on (or logically inferred from) other logical arguments, this can also be called knowledge. However, logic in itself cannot be considered knowledge, because a logical system is nothing but a minimal set of (arbitrary) axioms and inference rules, which per definition are not based on any other true assumptions.

 

 

Primate you may know more about definitions,But by knowledge i meant something you know.For example i have knowledge about the keyboard that by pressing enter the line will end and i will start from down.

by logic mind i meant-for example 90 years ago if someone told you that if you could take photos of seas and desserts and many other things without going to these places then you would laugh because your mind would not accept that you can do this since you dont have any knowledge about satellites, a.k.a you have limited knowledge and your logic mind would disagree to this and say this is not possible.Of course acording to you this would be correct since youve applied logic.But now since people have knowledge about satellite photography they can achieve this task.

I am not denying that through applying logic,you can learn new things or you can gain more knowledge.

No just a simple thing that since your mind has limited knowledge you can not use logic and say that something cannot be thereor can be there.

Wait melvin.Heaven itself gets destroyed at dissolution and even chritians beleive that heaven was created so how can you call it eternal.

It does have an end doesnt it.

Yes. there`s indeed eternal hell, Sant. Try being inside a prison from 8am to 4pm, Monday to Friday. You`ll get to know what I mean. The fact is those who were given the sentence of life imprisonment is only an eye opener.

So you believe in eternal hell.

JAI RAM

deleted

No. Ultimately the rules are self-sufficient. They don’t need you to apply them. You can use a computer to calculate the answer for you. Then you would still have the answer or the knowledge, but without (necessarily) knowing the rules.

 

Now I wont agree on that.When you use a calculator your not sovling directly solving 2+2=4 but calculator is doing a lot of the work.

The calcultor has the knowledge.

Then you would still have the answer or the knowledge, but without (necessarily) knowing the rules.

 

If you want to solve something yourself then you must know the rules isnt it.

No. What Peirce says here, is that a correct application of the rules of mathematics will necessarily lead to a true conclusion or true knowledge. This implies that the rules are leading. Thus, logic precedes knowledge..

Ill give you a maths problem.You know the rules.

On the basis of these rules youll apply logic to solve it.And the answer is again knowledge as youve said as logic precedes knowledge.

Yes or no.

Sant, your example of the order of arithmetic operations, only shows that to arrive at a correct answer, you have to apply the rules correctly.

So you need to have knowledge about the rules.

The mathematician Benjamin Peirce called mathematics "the science that draws necessary conclusions

SO doesnt this makes maths knowledge.

You apply the rules of arithmetic and arrive at the answer: n = 6. Now you know you need 6 boxes.

Here you yourself say tha you have to apply The rules of mathemathics ,so you already have the knowledge of the rules.

Im aint saying that through logic you cannot get to know more knowledge by testing, experiments etc.

Im just saying that just like in your maths problem your mind will solve and find the answer based on the knowledge it possess.

Now you are going to apply some logic that krishna cannot be basis of brahman since brahman is etc. etc. but that is because you have limited knowlede about brahman.

Though that is a different thing both are beyond mind and intelligence..

Just take another example.

Bhoothnath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ANother example-

Just take the mind of a five year old child.Now

he is scared of going to dark room because he had heard some ghost story from his brother, so his mother just to remove his fear will say that there is no such things as ghost and there are only devtas.Now because he believes in his mother, in his mind he has decided that ghosts dont exist.

And now even if he sees a ghost he will not beleive that it is a ghost but consider it a devta since his logic is that ghosts dont exist which come from the knowledge that his mother has given him.

OK so he meant that not jesus is a myth but jesus being only savoir is a myth.

Primate maybe i messed up in the earlier post.Im not saying that by logic you cant discover something.Ill give an example.Remember when

In school youve had heard about the formula of bodmas.

Now if you were in second grade and you would have been given-

6 × (5 + 3) You might calculate it by

6 × (5 + 3) =30 + 3=

but right answer will be

6 × (5 + 3) =6 × 8=

Now earlier when you were in al lower grade and had not learnt bodmas you answered by applying your own logic based on what you had learnt and what knowlegde you have.By your logic it seems correct since youve learnt only how to add subtract and the importance of order is not known to you.But only after learning more about bodmas then only you can find the correct answer.

So this proves that logic is based on what you already know.

I do remember a line that a scientist had said- that if god can exist without a cause even then the universe can exist without a cause.

By logic he is correct.

BUt what will happen if you decide to beleive in no god with that logic.

Some things are beyond logic.

Take another one- The omnipotence paradox suggests that the concept of an omnipotent entity is logically contradictory, from considering a question like: "Can God create a rock so big that he cannot lift it?" or "If God is all powerful, could God create a being more powerful than himself.

Courtesy

www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-bodmas.html -

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

JAI RAM