vijay

I think we should ignore these gay guys who try and justify homosex through scripture, prabhupada was clear on it, we understand sashtra through him, thats not to say we should reject gay guys as prabhupada engaged all, but take none of these nonsense justifications of sinful life seriously, its just like someone who wants to smoke ganga he will use shiva or use the soma stuff the demigods drink and others drank ages ago to justify through word juglery that its okay. Same thing happened with animal slaughter during bhudda's time. Its like others who want to use their wifes as sex machines looking for quotes to justify it knowing at the back of their mind that all this nonsence is binding but trying to justify the stool in thier heart. If the issue is care and compassion for all that come to krishnas temple then thats fine and accepted, but if its justifying homosex through scripture and prabhupada thats nonsence.

 

Actually we shouldnt ignore nonsence as these gay guys have a propaganda machine these days and ignoring it will just make it easier for them to twist the philosophy. Maybe i should change the title

Yep I meant worship the dieties as pujari if following 4regs and 16rounds

my 2 bits worth, like babhru prabhu said, I feel its unfair to say gays contaminte the atmosphere any one with material desires does that, if a gay or a hetro takes to krsna conciousness they are less contimnating the desiese gets cured, a mental speculator a lusty guy a person looking for wealth they all contaminate the atmosphere.

 

Gays should be allowed to worship the diety at the temple if the are following the 4 regs and doing 16 rounds sincerly trying to follow if not then disallowed, which is the same for hetrosexual couples if they are engaging in sex and treating each other as sex machines then they shouldnt be allowed to do certain things thats the standard for everyone.

 

If they want to get a civil marriage then thats their business in that marriage if its anything apart from emotional support and used for illicit sex then they should not be allowed to do certain services that require 4 regs and 16 rounds as a minimum (which means celibacy for gays and celibacy for hetros(apart from kids)).

 

As for appreiciating their manogomy, its the same as appreciating someone who has cut down from 10 cigerates to 1 cigrette a day, yes its a good start but our process is 16 rounds and 4 regs only when you come to that platform we are appreciated as humans.

 

A hetrosexual marriage where illicit sex goes on is also animal life and there is no spritual formal approval only a material one. And is the same thing as cutting down form 10 cigerttes to half a cigrette (may be slightly better than a gay marriage but still animal life) (they may attain heavenly planets by doing their material duties as this is the system designed by the lord, however its still different types of stool until they follow the process).

 

If gays want to commit to a partner then thats good on them and they should understand they are advancing but formal spitual recognition comes when you come to the human platform when we follow 4 regs and chant 16-initiation (There is no system designed by the lord for formal material approval for gay unity). Any other concocted formal recognition before we have achieved this level only re-inforces our bodily concept thinking that he's come to a good platform when there is still some way to go.

 

by Raghav Mittal

Posted February 10, 2005

 

Kindly take a look at the following petition:

 

The petition is to draw the attention of the Supreme Court of India towards the brutal destruction of heritage hills in the Braj region which spans across the districts of Mathura (UP), Bharatpur (Rajasthan) and Faridabad (Haryana). These hills have a historicity of more than 5000 years. Rampant mining is going on in Braj region violating the guidelines of the Rajasthan High Court. All this is causing havoc to the ecological balance of the region. A substantial part of the regional wildlife along with the flora and fauna has already been destroyed. This calls for an urgent intervention.

 

These hills have been associated with the numerous pastimes of Lord Krishna Ð the propounder of Bhagvad Gita, the world renowned treatise on philosophy. They bear many historic sites which are being blown off by using dynamite.

 

We understand that in a report the Archaeological Survey of India has recommended a complete ban on mining in Braj area. It is significant that the emotional and religious sentiments of millions of Vaishnavite Hindus have been attached to these hills for ages. Millions come to circumambulate these holy hills every year and are deeply hurt to see the devastation of their centres of devotion.

 

These hills offer a tremendous potential for revenue generation through eco-tourism and religious tourism if they are protected and developed on these lines. They fall under the Taj Trapezium Zone and Golden Triangle of Delhi, Jaipur & Agra.

 

The petition requests the Supreme Court intervene in the matter, and take all possible measures to restore the natural grandeur of Braj.

 

You can sign the petition at www.PetitionOnline.com/Barsana/petition.html

 

with best regards

raghav

 

Thanks for that post krsna prabhu

Regarding incorporation of our ISKCON centers, we want to run all our centers as nonprofit religious organizations; that is the main point. Keeping this point in view too much official control is not good in spiritual life. The centers should remain spiritually fit and independent. Some control must be there as is now. Too much control means so many vouchers. Gradually it will become a mundane institution. All our managers should be spiritually advanced simple and honest in carrying out the orders of the spiritual master and Krsna. That will be a nice standard. Democracy in spiritual affairs is not at all good but breeds power politics. We should be careful about power politics. Our only aim should be that each and every devotee is full dedicated to Krsna, then things will go on nicely. As it states in the Vedas:

 

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

There are very nicely run temples in iskcon also very badly ones, all we need is like prabhuji said know the standard and speak out when need be, else we allow nonsence to continue in the name of being humble or just giving up (which may be good for a while to recoup (-.

"Thank you. those are the same results I got from searching with many different keywords. Prabhupada emphasized never leaving "Krishna Consciousness". This has been twisted to one of those infamous "Prabhupada saidsNever leave Iskcon". One can only speculate why it would become twisted in such a fashion.

 

Unless it is a direct quote from Prabhupada then it is not valid.

 

Mikey "

 

I just done a search on leaving iskcon for another thread and found this,

 

"Sudama: Questions, Prabhupada? (break)

Devotee: ...one is sufficient to ask is that are Siddha-svarupananda Gosvami and Tusta-krsna Maharaja and their followers more advanced in their understanding of Krsna and the spiritual master than the other devotees in ISKCON; and secondly, are they, have they advanced beyond following the rules and regulations of ISKCON?

Prabhupada: That is up to you to judge--by the result. If they are actually advanced, why they should leave this company of ISKCON? Therefore, I know they're very good souls. They might have done some mistake out of misunderstanding, but you invite them to come back again and take their position. It is not very good sign that they have left. They'll never be happy. That's a fact. (pause)

Hare Krsna. (end)

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada"

 

Sudama: Questions, Prabhupada? (break)

Devotee: ...one is sufficient to ask is that are Siddha-svarupananda Gosvami and Tusta-krsna Maharaja and their followers more advanced in their understanding of Krsna and the spiritual master than the other devotees in ISKCON; and secondly, are they, have they advanced beyond following the rules and regulations of ISKCON?

Prabhupada: That is up to you to judge--by the result. If they are actually advanced, why they should leave this company of ISKCON? Therefore, I know they're very good souls. They might have done some mistake out of misunderstanding, but you invite them to come back again and take their position. It is not very good sign that they have left. They'll never be happy. That's a fact. (pause)

Hare Krsna. (end)

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

"And I believe it is like rubbing salt in wound to speak of people who have gone through some of these horrible episodes as having left Prabhupada's mission just because they no longer call Iskcon home. "

 

I agree those that have left due to being treated in such a way should never be condemned for leaving, I remeber a few instances that ive read where his diciples couldnt get along due to some problems with some of the god brothers and so srila prabhupada encouraged them to stay in iskcon however if they couldnt he gave his blessing for them, to practice independently of the mission although srila prabhupada felt bad about this he was more concerned for their spirtual well being.

I can believe those things happened as much worse has happened, I dont have the experience that you have had so can hardly imagine how it felt, I personally think that most memebers in this commitee are serious and are trying, as for what you described I would suggest writing a detailed account of what incidences happened with whom and send it as a private letter to whoever is in charge or even an open letter at least those that have done this and are still around may realise what they have done and even if they dont then at least the new generation can learn from the past.

 

I've only been around for the past 7 years and am fairly young, but have heard and read alot from devotees such as your self, because of this I've always made sure ive taken association from those with very good charachters in iskcon choosing my athorities carefully, and because of what has gone on I pray i can make a difference one day in the culture of how devotees are treated and not let the same things happen again in my small way. I also dont believe that all of the SSPT are "self serving" many of them have served selflessly for many years such as bhakti tirtha swami and others setting up nice communities with nice devotees, but may be you know something about their pasts and intentions that i dont.

 

 

 

 

Once started we are dragged to eternal happiness, we may see that a devotee is a scum but krishna and gurus vision is completely different, we see this life time and judge, krishna sees millions of lifetimes and sees at last my son has called out for me, he then does everything he can to bring us back to him, we may fall and hurt ourselves a few times but eventually he makes sure we get there.

 

 

Pariksit Maharaja had inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami how one can be saved from falling into the various conditions of hellish life. In this verse Sukadeva Gosvami answers that a soul who has surrendered to Krsna certainly cannot go to naraka, hellish existence. To say nothing of going there, even in his dreams he does not see Yamaraja or his order carriers, who are able to take one there. In other words, if one wants to save himself from falling into naraka, hellish life, he should fully surrender to Krsna. The word sakrt is significant because it indicates that if one sincerely surrenders to Krsna once, he is saved even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful activities. Therefore Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (9.30):

 

api cet su-duracaro

bhajate mam ananya-bhak

sadhur eva sa mantavyah

samyag vyavasito hi sah

 

"Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated." If one never for a moment forgets Krsna, he is safe even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful acts.

In the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (2.40) the Lord also says:

 

nehabhikrama-naso 'sti

pratyavayo na vidyate

svalpam apy asya dharmasya

trayate mahato bhayat

 

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Elsewhere in the Gita (6.40) the Lord says, na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati: "one who performs auspicious activity is never overcome by evil." The highest kalyana (auspicious) activity is to surrender to Krsna. That is the only path by which to save oneself from falling down into hellish life. Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati has confirmed this as follows:

 

kaivalyam narakayate tri-dasa-pur akasa-puspayate

durdantendriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate

visvam purna-sukhayate vidhi-mahendradis ca kitayate

yat-karunya-kataksa-vaibhavavatam tam gauram eva stumah

 

The sinful actions of one who has surrendered unto Krsna are compared to a snake with its poison fangs removed (protkhata-damstrayate). Such a snake is no longer to be feared. Of course, one should not commit sinful activities on the strength of having surrendered to Krsna. However, even if one who has surrendered to Krsna happens to do something sinful because of his former habits, such sinful actions no longer have a destructive effect. Therefore one should adhere to the lotus feet of Krsna very tightly and serve Him under the direction of the spiritual master. Thus in all conditions one will be akuto-bhaya, free from fear

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Devotional service is so pure and perfect that once having begun, one is forcibly dragged to ultimate success. Sometimes a person will give up his ordinary material engagements and out of sentiment take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord and thus begin the preliminary execution of devotional service. Even if such an immature devotee falls down, there is no loss on his part. On the other hand, what is the gain of one who executes the prescribed duties according to his varna and asrama but does not take to devotional service? Although a fallen devotee may take his next birth in a low family, his devotional service will nonetheless resume from where it left off. Devotional service is ahaituky apratihata; it is not the effect of any mundane cause, nor can it be terminated by any mundane cause or permanently curtailed by any material interruption. Therefore a devotee should be confident about his engagement and should not be very interested in the activities of the karmis, jnanis and yogis.

There are certainly many good qualities among fruitive actors, philosophical speculators and mystic yogis, but all good qualities automatically develop in the character of a devotee. No extraneous endeavor is needed.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Prabhupada: So we have explained yesterday, buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yoga means bhakti-yoga. So, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Bhakti-yoga, begun, some way or other, it has got great effect. There is story that in the Deity room, a lamp was burning. You know oil lamp has to be watched. Sometimes the wick has to be pushed. So the lamp was almost going to be extinguished. In the meantime a rat came there. He thought that it is something eatable. So he touched with mouth, the wick, and it became pushed. Simply by that action he got salvation. Just try to understand. Because he gave some service to the Deity. So there are many instances. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Krsna consciousness business is so nice that whatever you do sincerely, it will never be lost. Permanent. Either you execute one percent, two percent, fifty percent. If you can finish hundred percent, then next life, sure you are going to Krsna. But even if you are unable to finish the whole course, still, whatever you have done, that is permanent credit. That will never be lost. The similar passage is there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, while Narada Muni was instructing Vyasadeva for writing Srimad-Bhagavatam. So he said this verse:

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Hari-sauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupada: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Krsna consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Hari-sauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Krsna consciousness or acting for the benefit of Krsna without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Krsna consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Krsna consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Krsna consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajamila performed his duty in some percentage of Krsna Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim

ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah

 

If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly? (Bhag. 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body, but work in Krsna consciousness carries the person again to Krsna consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brahmana or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Krsna, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati.

Ramesvara: (reads)

 

ksipram bhavati dharmatma

sasvac-chantim nigacchati

kaunteya pratijanihi

na me bhaktah pranasyati

 

"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities either by accident or intention, be a pure devotee? This question may justly be raised. The miscreants, as stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature. According to the Veda, there is a certain regulation that if one falls down from his exalted position, he has to undergo certain ritualistic processes to purify himself. But here there is no such condition, because the purifying process is already in the of the devotee due to his remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly. Therefore the chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare should be continued without stoppage. This will protect a devotee from all accidental falldowns. He will thus remain perpetually free from all material contaminations."

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

"This chanting should go on.

Instead of meetings, resolutions, dissolutions,

revolutions and then no solutions,

there should be chanting."

 

Like mahak prabhu said if that was the case why did he create the gbc, why did he emphasise co-operation thoughtfulness, intelligence planning etc.

 

Yes shiva prabhu very scrutinizingly anaylised, you seem to have a lot of hate in your heart, let krsna judge their sincerity and he will award their rewards, and if you can do better please do it, it is said a pure devotee at once can purify the atmosphere, dont point fingers at others to be pure an armchair critic try and change your self if your desire is so great to see a better movement then purify yourself automatically you will change so many peoples hearts. If you have any specific problems why dont you write to them, just unconstructively critising attempts isnt going to help anyone except you'r anarthas get bigger.

 

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated December 20, 1972, and I have noted the contents with great concern. I do not know what are exactly the facts of the matter, but if there are any discrepancies as you say in the temples of ISKCON, they should be immediately rectified by conscientious officers. Of course, we cannot expect to find always any utopia in this material world, that is a fallacy, and it may appear to someone who is materialistically inclined that what we are doing is not only harmful to our materialistic condition, but also that we are not caring for our students and so many other things.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Coming Home to ISKCON

by Dasanudas Vanacari

Posted February 7, 2005

 

Dear Maharajas, Godbrothers, Mothers and Friends,

 

Hare Krsna! Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Those of you who know me, or have been reading my articles published on VNN and elsewhere, know that in the past I have been very critical of ISKCON. To you, this announcement may come as somewhat of a surprise. To others, it may seem trivial--what's the big deal? Well, it is a big deal when one wakes up to the realization that one has made an enormous mistake, and must immediately begin the process of correction.

 

To all of you, and especially to the stalwart devotees of ISKCON, I owe my deepest apologies. I am very ashamed and embarrassed by some of the things I have said about ISKCON over the last decade. I beg your forgiveness for my offenses, and your blessings that I may never again become so overcome by illusion.

 

And to the non-ISKCON devotees and friends who may have read my online writings over the years, I regret to inform you that I was wrong about many things, especially my negative attitude towards ISKCON and devotees of ISKCON. That was a very bad example and I implore you not to follow it. This is not the place for explaining why I adopted such negative attitudes; suffice it to say that they seemed like good ideas at the time. But in my humble opinion, this might be a good time to express succinctly how and why my attitude has changed.

 

Just after New Year 2005, I was in Washington, DC visiting a friend who I had been preaching to over the Internet. I was on a japa walk near the National Cathedral, meditating on the events of the past several years. Suddenly as if directed by Supersoul, I thought, "But what if my mind is wrong?"

 

Examining this idea, I was shocked by the growing realization that I had in fact been misled by my mind into rejecting some of Srila Prabhupada's most important direct instructions: to remain within the ISKCON society, to accept the authority of the GBC, and to cooperate together with my Godbrothers to further the Krsna consciousness movement. I further realized that, even if I disagreed with ISKCON's management policies or did not like the service I was assigned, nevertheless it was my duty to accept and perform them to the best of my ability. My rejection of ISKCON was simply in illusion created by my fault-finding mind.

 

There is a saying, "You can choose your friends, but not your family." We may like to think that we chose Srila Prabhupada as our guru. But in reality, he chose to bring us into Krsna's family. Once we are part of that family, we cannot simply turn our backs and walk away without being guilty of gross dereliction of duty.

 

All of us disciples are related through Srila Prabhupada, and that spiritual family relationship is eternal. We may like or not like our Godbrothers or their actions, but we cannot resign from the ISKCON family without also rejecting Srila Prabhupada's direct instruction not to do so. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur wrote that we should find the faults in ourselves, not in others. Our spiritual destination is determined by our own actions, therefore we should not care what others do, but simply perform our own duty to the best of our ability.

 

I realized that I should not be critical of my Godbrothers, since I was not being held responsible for their activities and attitudes, but for my own. A tremendous weight lifted from my shoulders, and my heart was relieved of a stressful burden. I immediately walked down to the Metro station and went to the Potomac ISKCON temple, where I tearfully saw the Deities, ecstatically participated in the Sunday feast kirtan, and became reacquainted with many old friends.

 

A short time later I rejoined ISKCON, and am now serving in Srila Prabhupada's mission once again. It is wonderful to see how the devotees who remained steady have matured while I was away, and this is very gratifying. There are still problems in ISKCON, but I feel very optimistic that they can be resolved. The recent installation of Sri Pancha-Tattva Deities at Mayapur is a milestone in accomplishing Srila Prabhupada's vision for ISKCON. The Spiritual Strategic Planning Team initiative is the most exciting new development, giving me great hope for the future of the society.

 

But even if problems remain, much more importantly, now I am properly situated in service at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada. I am doing my duty: attending the morning program and performing my assigned service with humility and enthusiasm. I am doing my best to see the good in my Godbrothers and brush aside their insignificant faults. After all, they are also devotees, and also have the right to service in Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON family. And I have become very skeptical towards my rascal mind.

 

There are literally thousands of devotees in a similar situation to mine: disconnected and alienated from ISKCON, yet yearning for the safe shelter of Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet. In the future I think we will see more and more senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada have similar realizations, and desire to return to ISKCON to serve his mission. I beg all devotees to clear their path to reunification with ISKCON, and not to shatter their hearts by placing obstacles in their path of reconciliation with their eternal spiritual family.

 

Begging to remain your insignificant servant,

 

Dasanudas Vanacari

 

Of all trees I am the holy fig tree, and among sages and demigods I am Narada. Of the singers of the gods [Gandharvas] I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila.

 

PURPORT

 

The fig tree (asvattha) is one of the most beautiful and highest trees, and people in India often worship it as one of their daily morning rituals. Amongst the demigods they also worship Narada, who is considered the greatest devotee in the universe. Thus he is the representation of Krsna as a devotee. The Gandharva planet is filled with entities who sing beautifully, and among them the best singer is Citraratha. Amongst the perpetually living entities, Kapila is considered an incarnation of Krsna, and His philosophy is mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Later on another Kapila became famous, but his philosophy was atheistic. Thus there is a gulf of difference between them.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

 

The Lord was sitting, taking rest against a young banyan tree, with His right lotus foot on His left thigh, and although He had left all household comforts, He looked quite cheerful in that posture.

 

PURPORT

 

According to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, the Lord's sitting posture--keeping His back against the newly grown banyan tree--is also meaningful. Asvattha, the banyan tree, is so called because the tree does not die very quickly; it continues to live for many, many years. His legs and their energies are the material ingredients, which are five in all: earth, water, fire, air and sky. The material energies represented by the banyan tree are all products of His external potency and are therefore kept to His back. And because this particular universe is the smallest of all, the banyan tree is therefore designated as small, or as a child. Tyakta-pippalam indicates that He had now finished His pastimes in this particular small universe, but since the Lord is absolute and eternally blissful, there is no difference between His leaving or accepting something. The Lord was now prepared to leave this particular universe and go into another, just as the sun rises on one particular planet and sets in another simultaneously but does not change its own situation.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Satsvarupa: (break) ...but they would rather be non-devotees than work all day. They can say they are free.

Prabhupada: Yes. I offered that, that "What is this two thousand, 2,500 per month? Oh we can earn at any moment two thousand. So you become devotee; I excuse you of rent." They are not agreeing. (break) ...like an ass simply for sense gratification. Therefore it is warned in the Bhagavatam, nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhati. (break) ...to respect the Vaisnava, to water tulasi, and this asvattha tree. These are bhakti items.

Nitai: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. (end)

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

 

Haribol, ive been following this thread recently, and have learnt alot, would it be possible shiva prabhu if you address the quotes which sumedh prabhu gave and vice versa, as when there are contridictory quotes, only by reconciliation can we understand in more detail.

 

ie shiva prabhu has quoted prabhupada saying shiva is jiva, and sumedh prabhu has quoted prabhuada and others to the contrary.

Sorry dont know of any transport from bradford,

type in train "journey planner" in google, i think destination is watford junction, from their you'll need someone to pick you up, i think there is a mincab driver for the manor which would be cheaper and need to arrange via the manor. If you get there on a sunday i may be able to pick u up, email me on vijay108 at gmail dot com.

This article was published by F18News on: 11 January 2005

 

KAZAKHSTAN: Justice official "grossly distorting the facts"

By Igor Rotar, Central Asia Correspondent, Forum 18 News Service

Vidya Volkova, head of the Hare Krishna community in Kazakhstan, has told Forum 18 News Service that the deputy head of the Almaty regional justice department, Murat Tanirbergenov, was "grossly distorting the facts" about the land ownership of the only Hare Krishna farming commune in the CIS. Volkova showed Forum 18 legal documents proving ownership, and Tanirbergenov has now backtracked to Forum 18 about some claims he made to a local news agency, saying "we were just generalising about the facts but later, if the procuracy finds it necessary to bring a case, the court will decide on the issue of closing the Krishna commune." Tanirbergenov stood by claims he made – disputed by the commune – that they fail to meet hygiene and fire safety standards and trade illegally. This is the first time that the authorities have officially – as against unofficially - raised the possibility of closing down the Hare Krishna farm, which has been put under pressure since its foundation.

Speaking to Forum 18 News Service, the deputy head of the Almaty regional justice department, Murat Tanirbergenov, has backtracked over claims he made to a local news agency in December about a Hare Krishna farming commune in a suburb of Kazakhstan's commercial capital Almaty that the authorities are targeting for closure. He admitted he had been wrong to assert that the Krishna devotees had acquired the land for the commune illegally, but insisted they are breaking the law by failing to meet hygiene and fire safety standards and trading illegally. "We were just generalising about the facts but later, if the procuracy finds it necessary to bring a case, the court will decide on the issue of closing the Krishna commune," he told Forum 18 on 9 January from Taldy-Kurgan, the administrative centre of Almaty region. "But - at least for now - no-one has taken concrete steps to close it. I believe the Krishna followers have been premature in shouting about this to the whole world."

 

In the interview with the Kazakhstan Today news agency on 23 December, Tanirbergenov had stated that the department of justice and law enforcement agencies are working together to close down the commune, based in Karasai (formerly Kaskelen) district of Almaty region. He said members of the Ptitsevod horticultural cooperative, on whose land the Krishna farm is situated, sent the regional akim (administration head) a collective complaint about the "unlawful activities and extremist tendencies" of the Krishna devotees. The authorities have previously pressured the head of the Ptitsevod horticultural cooperative to testify against the Hare Krishna commune (see F18News 10 December 2003 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=209).

 

Tanirbergenov told the agency that an inspection of the Society for Krishna Consciousness did not uncover any signs of "extremist activities", but did find other instances of law-breaking. He claimed the Krishna devotees had obtained the land by unlawful means and were carrying out unlawful construction work. The regional procuracy also found the law being broken in other ways, he asserted. For example, hygiene at the Krishna commune failed to meet basic standards and fire safety standards had not been met. The investigation had also discovered two black market confectionery shops. All these illegal activities formed the basis for raising the issue of closing down the Hare Krishna community, he told the agency.

 

The head of the Society for Krishna Consciousness in Kazakhstan, Vidya (Valentina) Volkova, accused Tanirbergenov of "grossly distorting the facts" when he spoke to Kazakhstan Today. She showed Forum 18 an official document showing that the land had been bought for the personal ownership of one of the members of the Krishna community. "This is the land that Tanirbergenov was referring to," she told Forum 18 in Almaty on 8 January. "But as you see, we have an official document showing that the land has been bought for our personal ownership."

 

Volkova also rejected the other accusations against the commune, explaining that the Hare Krishna devotees were operating confectionery shops which distributed goods to community members free of charge. "These shops can't by any means be considered black market shops," she told Forum 18. "We don't operate them commercially but simply give our fellow believers, free of charge, food that we cannot buy in shops here." She said that members of the hygiene commission had made "absolutely absurd demands" of the Krishna devotees, such as instructing them not to eat while seated on the ground.

 

Volkova maintains that the Krishna commune has faced constant inspections since August 2004 and that individual devotees have been the targets of "gross provocation". She claimed that the director of the Ptitsevod cooperative hung the severed head of a cow over his gate This is offensive to Krishna followers, who regard the cow as a sacred animal. Moreover, Volkova believes that the persecution of the Krishna devotees has the approval of the local authorities. She said that in the five years the commune has existed, the district akim (administrative head), Kutpanov, has not even once agreed to meet commune members.

 

The Krishna farming commune - the only such Krishna commune in the whole of the CIS - was registered in May 2002. Relations between the Krishna devotees and the local authorities have been strained since the very beginning. Throughout this time, the commune has been subjected to an extraordinary range of official inspections, during which procuracy officials and police have openly said they would do everything they could to drive the Krishna devotees out of the Karasai district (see F18News 10 December 2003 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=209). However, this is the first time that the authorities have raised at an official level the possibility of closing down the communal farm.

 

For more background, see Forum 18's Kazakhstan religious freedom survey at http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=249

 

A printer-friendly map of Kazakhstan is available at

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/atlas/index.html?Parent=asia&Rootmap=kazakh

Really nice tips.

 

Exercises to grow in Krishna Consciousness

HH Bhakti Tirtha Swami

 

1. List our weaknesses:

 

In regards to our weakpoints that hold us back in spiritual life and execution of devotional services. You can go through your sadana and see where you are strong and weak at.

 

Also peer at some things less often looked at or maybe not looked at at all such as internal attitudes or how mind perceives things but we may keep to ourselves. Things such as you don't like the way a person looks, or his/her voice, dress, singing style, etc. All the ugly things that roll around in our heads. Sit down and take a good look at them. Try to really see where they are stemming from - insecurities, false pride, cynisism, repression, our ego being hurt or ruffled, past trauma that taints our present mindsets, etc. You can see so much of this isn't just our opinions on things but come from false ego. We can feel learned and advanced so look at others in certain ways.

 

Sometimes externally we may seem very compassionate and always there to help but really we like to be around when people have problems and we offer help because really it makes us feel better about ourselves and feel some superiority.

 

So these examples are things we need to really look at deep down in ourselves and come up with a plan to change.

 

Suggestion is to write down some weaknesses and/or mindsets you would like to change and 3-4 times a day remind yourself to stay out of them. After some time doing this it will become natural and inherent and the mindsets will become minimized or at least easier to handle or caught when they come up.

 

2. If I left my body tonight, How would I feel about where my consciousness is at?

 

Was my consciousness where I would want it to be if this was my last day?

 

If yes, then great- if not then look back at the day and analyze what you could do different on a daily basis so you get closer to where you feel pleased everynight where you are at.

 

-Today is the sum total of ones other days and lifetimes so a good reflection of where we are at. Everything good or bad builds on itself.

 

Another way you can do this exercise is wake up in the morning with the mindset "Today is my last day on the planet" So you would live your day with the best consciousness you can with quality rounds and personal interactions (Using BTSwami's principals for assistance such as "Treat everyone you encounter as if the success and failure of your spiritual life depends upon the quality of your interactions with them") At the end of the night reflect and see how you did. How did it differ from a "normal" day.

 

3. It is said that progress in ones spiritual life is measured not in how much one is doing but how little or much one is holding back. A person seemingly doing a lot may have the capacity to do so much more and/or much better quality and vice versa. So the next exercise is to sit down with yourself and think about How much and where am I holding back and why? For some we have maybe never thought about this before.

 

I mentioned my example of on a day to day basis without really sitting down and thinking about it I will tell my self I am doing pretty good. Tow the line and have a good amount of service and projects. Probably more then the average devotee. I try to help when I can when things come up. I figure Iam doing enough to get by and that all is relatively OK.

 

If I really sat down and did this exercise I would see how that the quality of my sadana and services are very poor and I could raise them tremendously. Thing is it would take work and shifting around a lot of internal stuff and when it comes down to it, Iam too lazy right now to do it. So this exercise gives me more of an understanding where I actually am and how much better I could be doing. I mean I knew I could be doing better as everyone knows that but this exercise and the other ones REALLY show me how much more I could be doing and the minimum I am really working with.

 

The mind has great ways to keep us all thinking we aren't doing so bad and gives us many reasons not to improve. We are all different and our minds are all different so someone's mind may play a certain trick on them due to their particular make up and another mind will do the opposite. Someone's mind may tell them they are doing just great and they are so wonderful and that is the minds trick for that particular person in this lifetime. Someone else their mind will constantly tell them how awful they are and this affects that particular person and keeps them caged.

 

It has been said that the balance we should strive for is think that simultaneously we could die today but also live to 80 years old so have to live our lives daily with both in mind. It is very easy to think to tighten things up as we get older but really the future is today as each day builds on the next (and plus, we never really know in the present age when our last day is going to be....)

 

* A tip when doing these exercises and analyzing the mind is to remember that the mind seperate from you.

 

To keep it in perspective when your mind is chattering or thinking all those ugly things, picture it as a separate person talking to you. This can help in aiding to control it and it keeps things in the proper perspective. Just working with this fact itself can be an exersize of its own and can help someone out tremendousely

 

With all of these exercises the more honest and serious we are to change what we find we don't like or is wrong, our advancement could skyrocket. These exercises are a very strong indicator of how serious we really are. A true test of how serious we are is how serious we take and implement these - a lack of implementing will show how much false ego and illusion have their grip.

 

We can ask ourselves why we don't live these exercises on a daily basis. Why shouldn't we??

 

This will show some of us that we may not be as serious as we thought. That is OK and one of the functions of these is to show us where we really our with ourselves. The mind can play big tricks on us telling us were OK with where we are at when were very far from that.

 

These exercises were brought up to show ourselves what we are doing now to become effective leaders, role models and human beings in the future. We all have to work as hard as we can to maximize our potential. The future is us and the time is now to start thinking about it and what we want ours and ISKCONS future to be.

 

We have a wonderful talented bunch here and I feel good about the future. If we can just keep up with what we are doing even now within the group, in 5-10 years we will have a wonderful bonded community because we already have the bonds now.

 

If your staying and need anything please let me know, I know a few devotees staying there stayed around there myself yesterday (vijay108 at gmail dot com)

Nice verse sumedh prabhu.

 

Just to add my bit if anyones interested.

I also thought how can we speak of an original form or the first candle, if all vishnu tatva are eternal. Then I came acroos and article in BTG where someone asks the same question.

 

It was explained using the analogy of the sun if i remeber correctly.

The sun is the source of the sunshine right?

however which one came first? Without the sun there is no shine, and without shine there is no sun? (sun defined as light emitting planet).

 

Now take the analogy futher and imagine (if possible) that the sun and shine are eternal.

 

So eternally the sun can be said to be the source of the sunshine. Ie krishna the source of all expansions.

 

I thought it was a fairly good analogy as far as material analogies in trying to understand the spiritual go.

 

 

 

 

 

Transcript of LIVE CHAT with Iskcon, H.H.Radhanath Swami Maharaj at 15.00

hrs on Thursday, January 13, 2004 in Mumbai

 

 

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj

ISKCON

 

 

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:24:510.7744889465156772&host_name=chatinterviews.indiatimes.com&url_name=ww

w.timesofindia.com/articleshow/990506.cms> "The gods are very sad to see how

we're creating so much suffering in the world we live. Why blame Him for the

mess that human society has created?"

 

Devi > Maharaj, the scientific/medical approach attributes the cause of

tragedies to chance and natural forces. Interventions by God, fate, or karma

are not included in the equation.

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > Nothing happens without a cause. According to

Science, for every action there is an equal and corresponding reaction.

These are laws of Karma . When humanity exploits the earth and natural

resources in a massive worldwide level then we can expect both, from an

ecological as well as karmic consideration that there will be reactions.

Real compassion and love is to educate people to collectively love one

another and live in harmony with the laws of nature and God.

Bhakti > What sort of explanations can one get from the scriptures with

regard to the occurrence of the tsunami? Is there any explanation for it in

our scriptures?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > The same answer I just gave applies to this.

According to the scriptures human being should be Bharat Dukha Dukhi . This

means that the suffering of others is the suffering of ours. We should feel

the pains and willing to make sacrifices to help others physically,

emotionally as well as spiritually. According to the scriptures there are

three types of miseries - Those caused by one's own body and mind;

sufferings caused by others; sufferings caused by natural disturbances. In

the world today there is such wide spread disregard to our mother Earth and

to the laws of morality. It is Nature's law that sufferings will come upon

human society. The most important cure to this problem is to help people to

clean the ecology of their hearts through living moral lives, prayer and

chanting God's name.

 

Acyuta lila das > Maharaj, regarding tsunami, even after seeing all the

disaster photos etc I am not feeling any compassion for them (the affected)

nor do I feel bad for them. How should I develop compassion for them?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > Compassion develops in relation to the

overcoming of our selfish ego. By service to God in humanity and following

spiritual practices which clean the heart of these selfish egoistic

tendencies. The natural compassion of the soul awakens. The most recommended

process of cleaning the heart is the chanting of God's holy name and

associating with saintly people.

 

Chota_haridas > Do natural disasters mean that the Gods are angry?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > Why should we blame God for the mess that

human society has created. The gods are very sad to see how we are creating

so much suffering in the world we live.

 

Svaidya > How should we derive more spiritual strength when such a natural

catastrophe happens?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > By increasing our awareness of the urgency to

turn to Krishna (God) with an honest and humble heart.

 

Mannie > After creating man why should God want him to keep grovelling at

His feet? Why should God want man to keep looking at Him for guidance all

the time? After all man is born to do his own karma and not God's karma.

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > We are not man or woman. We are eternal

spirit souls. The body that we have is a temporary dress. The nature of the

soul is to eternally experience the ecstasy of God's love. We have forgotten

that love (God's love) which is the root cause of all problems. God is

supremely compassionate and merciful. He has descended to this world in many

places throughout history to remind us of the love we have forgotten. God

wants to give us the ultimate treasure of Divine Love.

 

Jaggu > When a disaster strikes, the time to preach is over and it is time

for noble actions. Holy men are ordinary mortals too who have been born to

do their karma and not only to do God's karma which is to show the right

path. God will evaluate their actions too. However, in the aftermath of the

tsunami very few holy men have come out visibly on the forefront in the

tsunami struck areas. Too much talk and no action do not speak highly of a

spiritual man or organisation. Please comment on this Maharaj.

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > A spiritual person will feel the pains of

others

and do everything within his or her power to help. Our Bhakti Vedanta

Hospital has sent doctors to the tsunami (hit areas) as well as to the

previous earth quake disasters and we have found that survivors who are

emotionally in trauma found shelter and relief in spiritual counselling and

understanding their eternal spiritual nature. Real compassion should be to

give aid to the body, mind and specially the eternal soul. Throughout

history, in all great religions, saints have sacrificed their very lives for

the upliftment and happiness of others. Everyone should do their part

according to what they have to share with the world.

 

Jigs > Maharaj, what do you make of the observations by few individuals that

the tsunami occurred and destroyed only in the Buddhist, Muslim and Hindu

countries?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > These are sectarian beliefs. Over the ages

there have been disasters throughout the world. We are all brothers and

sisters on this spiritual platform .We should learn to love and respect

every living entity, not only of human, but all species. Life is the symptom

of the presence of the soul that is part of God. To love God is to

unconditionally feel affection for every living being.

 

Anjum.rs > Maharaj, in the tsunami wave most of them who got killed were

poor fishermen. But God is said to be very merciful to the poor who does not

possess anything. How to understand this? Thank you.

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > You are welcome. God is merciful to all

living beings. When man is plundering and exploiting the earth there will be

natural consequences. We are dropping bombs on the earth, deforesting the

earth, polluting the earth with chemical and nuclear waste, and recklessly

drilling oil motivated by greed. We are destabilising our own ecology. We

can expect massive reactions. God has given us the responsibility to protect

and care for others, including the poor. Why do we blame God for

civilisation that is defined to the laws he has lovingly given to us?

 

Beta > What lessons can be learnt from disaster of this scale? And what

should one do to avoid such heavenly ferocity? Can we as humans avoid or

prevent it? Aren't we just too small a force in front of the Nature?

H.H. Radhanath Swami Maharaj > The force of God's love is unlimited. We

should

strive to be humble instruments of Krishna's love. We could access Krishna's

love by sincerely chanting his name with a humble heart - Hare Krishna Hare

Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare; Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

 

 

Sign Off Message > Let us all strive to be a humble servant of the Lord.

Thank you very much.

In Srila Prabhupada's purports, a few times he has commented upon the Mayavadi, or Impersonalists, in a way that to me sometimes seems very disparaging.

 

It¹s important to understand this within the context of Indian religious history, and not within the context of Western religious history. Here¹s the difference.

In India, we don¹t find a long history of bloody wars fought over religion. Indian religion has always tended to be inclusivistic, rather than exclusivistic. Thus the different ³religions² in Hindu culture tended to accept each other as valid but to view other schools as subordinate or preliminary to their own view.

Following this tradition, Srila Prabhupada often states that the impersonalists are ³bona fide transcendentalists² but that their impersonal understanding is subordinate or preliminary to Vaishnavism.

This is quite distinct from, say, declaring that impersonalism is simply false and evil. Robust theological debate flourished in India within a safe, multi-religious environment in which debate was not a precursor to war.

 

All this stands in marked contrast to the bloody fanaticism which often typified the European and Middle Eastern approach to religion. The early Chrisitian church developed the notion of ³true² and ³false² religions, ³living² and ³dead² gods etc. In time, this strident, fanatical view led to crusades, inquisitions, religious wars etc. This type of thinking, and the violence it fostered, never became prominent in India.

 

Today, much of the liberal, eclectic, ³all paths are the same² ethos in the West is a direct reaction to centuries of European and Middle Eastern fanaticism. Thus as in Newtonian physics, we have here an equal and opposite reaction which is far more tolerant, but equally fanatical in its own way.

 

In general, liberal thinkers in the West do not reason their way to the conclusion that all paths are equally valid. Rather they tend to hold their view more as an ethical principle than a philosophical conclusion, more as an antidote to fanaticism than a serious, logical description of ultimate reality. Coming from a tolerant, inclusivistic culture, Prabhupada does not feel the need to emphasize the relativity of spiritual views, but rather rigorously seeks the logical truth about God.

 

 

I understand the basics of the Impersonalist beliefs, and I know how Vaishnavism and Krishna consciousness are different from them. I, personally, prefer Vaishnava beliefs and bhakti yoga to worshiping a formless God. But I'm unsettled by anything that seems to be a value judgment against another religion.

 

A preference IS a value judgment. The problem here, apparently, is not making a value judgment but rather making it publicly. It is fair to say that both the personal and the impersonal aspects of God exist simultaneously. However it is not fair, or logical, to say that both the personal and the impersonal aspects of God are supreme simultaneously.

A soul who sincerely, earnestly seeks the highest truth has a ³right² to know what that ultimate truth is. If I actually know that God is ultimately a person, and I don¹t publicly say it, then I am consciously misleading or deceiving those persons who sincerely and unconditionally seek the highest truth.

 

If I prefer bhakti yoga and being lovingly devoted to Krishna but an Impersonalist prefers something different, then what's wrong with that?

 

It is not ³wrong², in a mundane moral sense to prefer the impersonal. In a sense every soul prefers whatever seems best to that soul. Prabhupada never teaches that impersonalists are evil souls, however he does give deep insights into metaphysical psychology.

If there is a personal God, and I am duly informed of this fact, and I choose to reject that personal God, it is not then ³wrong² for an enlightened spiritual teacher to analyze my motives in making that decision. After all, if there is a unique value in knowing

God¹s ultimate nature, then there must, logically, be a loss of value in not knowing that fact.

To avoid that monumental loss, Prabhupada, who actually has the ultimate good of all souls at heart, speaks the truth. We cannot a priori reject his words simply because he does not relativize all spiritual claims. After all, to relativize all spiritual claims is to negate all of them. Consider the following:

 

The personalists claim God is ultimately a person. The impersonalists claim the opposite. Now if you claim that personalism and impersonalism are the same, you are actually disagreeing with, and rejecting, the claims of both personalists and impersonalists.

So metaphysical egalitarianism is only apparently liberal and tolerant. Actually it resembles fanatical Christianity in that it ultimately rejects the claims of virtually all

historical religions through the act of relativizing and equating them.

 

 

I consider all these other approaches as very valid ways to understand God. I am attracted to Krishna very much now, and I am a very enthusiastic student of Krishna consciousness, and I think that approach is best for me, as it is for all the other Vaishnavas I know. But I don't think I can say what's best for anyone else. My nonjudgmental approach, I believe, helps me to be more skilled and compassionate in the psychotherapy I do with others. I hope to maintain that perspective.

 

As explained above, different paths make different claims. Many of these claims are valid, however validity and equality are very different concepts and should not be confused.

Krishna states in the Gita that He is the source of everything. This claim, logically, is either true or false. If it is true, then other valid views must be understood within the context of Krishna¹s statement. If Krishna¹s claim is not true, then even if we politely say that Krishna¹s claim is valid, it is still not true.

 

Similarly some Buddhists deny the existence of God. If their claim is true, Krishna¹s claim is false. If Krishna¹s claim is true, their claim is false. If we say both claims are true, we deny both paths, since both traditions reject the notion that both claims are true.

 

Buddhism certainly teaches much that is true in regard to human psychology and the temporary nature of the world. However the validity of this teaching does not validate the claim made by some historical forms of Buddhism that God and the soul do not exist.

 

The simple point here is that we should avoid both fanatical exclusivism as well as fanatical inclusivism. We should recognize the wisdom and validity present in many of the world¹s traditions, but at the same time we should have the courage and wisdom to seek, and speak, the highest truth without compromise.

 

With best wishes,

Hridayananda das Goswami

A really nice article

 

WHEN NATURE BOOMERANGS

 

The tsunami wave that lashed several Indian Ocean countries

has taken a toll of over a hundred thousand people. The

magnitude of the disaster has shocked the whole world. Many

countries have rushed to offer humanitarian aid. Scientists

are proposing improving detection technologies to decrease

casualties in future calamities.

 

Natural calamities are a display of an awesome power

immensely and fearfully greater than the human. They jolt us

out of our complacent routines and force us to think about

the supernatural: Why do such natural disasters occur? How

should we respond to them? Can we do anything to prevent

their recurrence? Does God exist? If He does, why does He

not stop such calamities?

 

THE LAW OF CONSEQUENCES

 

All the great spiritual and religious traditions of the

world warn us that we are answerable to God for all our

actions. The Vedic texts of ancient India give the most

cogent and coherent understanding of this system of cosmic

accountability. Known as the law of karma, this universal,

infallible law of action-reaction gives all of us our due

pleasures and pains as per our actions, right or wrong. The

Vedic texts therefore contain prescriptions and

proscriptions to guide us in our actions. Anyone who

violates these injunctions has only himself to blame when

the consequences come upon him.

 

To some extent we can ourselves see how the law of karma

chastises transgressors. Lung and other respiratory

disorders penalize smokers; liver diseases afflict

alcoholics; and AIDS and other STDs punish illicit sex-

mongers. We may not be able to trace the causes of all the

sufferings of everyone, but humility will allow us to admit

the limitations of our vision. We do not and can not know

about the karmic deeds and misdeeds of others – or even

ourselves - in past lives. Even in this life, we cannot

fully know everything that everyone – or anyone - has done.

The Vedic texts give us a thorough philosophical

understanding of the inherent goodness of God as our Supreme

Father and the infallible benevolent nature of His

jurisprudence. Therefore they assure us that anyone

suffering in any way is reaping what he has himself sown

earlier.

 

A CIVILIZATION (?) OF MURDERERS

 

Two activities declared to be monstrously criminal in the

cosmic penal system, but which are rampant in our society

are animal slaughter and abortion. From God’s viewpoint,

these two activities are bestial; His more powerful

children – humans - are ruthlessly and

systematically slaughtering His weaker and helpless

children – animals and infants. And the only actual reason

for this ghastly massacre is the selfish hedonistic desire

for the enjoyment of the tongue and the genitals. Especially

despicable is the slaughter of cows. The cow is like our

mother because she nourishes us with her milk. And

we “scientifically advanced cultured moderns†erect

factories of death to murder our bovine mothers. Not only

that, modern human mothers, who according to poets are “the

embodiments of selfless loveâ€, murder their own children

even before they have seen the light of the day. Thus we

live in a civilization (‘devilization’ is a better word) of

murderers.

 

Of course we have invented shrewd justifications to

rationalize (rational lies) our misdeeds. A few of them with

their refutations are:

 

We need proteins coming from animal flesh for healthÂ

(Modern scientific findings have clearly proven that meat

doesn’t aid, but harms, our health).

 

We need to control the population and so must encourage

abortion (Then why kill only the life inside the womb? Why

not the life outside? Or why not control the sexual urge?)

 

The embryo is only a tissue; so abortion is just a tissue

removal. (The embryo breathes and grows, which is what all

of us do too. So if a serial killer murders us, is that also

tissue removal?)

 

A murderer may declare that there is nothing wrong in his

murder, but the law of the state will still punish him.

Similarly we may justify or even legalize abortion and

animal slaughter, but the law of karma is not going to

change as per our intellectual whimsies.

 

Statistics show the horrendous massacre that we cause

everyday.

 

Total cattle slaughtered in 2004 = 16500000 == 44657 /day

Total annual abortions worldwide = 46 million abortions ==

126027 /day.

 

Thus the toll of life that we take daily using our human

technology (170684) is far more than the toll of human life

that the divine technology of the tsunami took. So in a

karmic sense we deserve far more, which of course will come

in due course of time. Therefore

the tsunami disaster is not divine retribution; it is karmic

justice.

 

NOT FAITH BUT SCIENCE

 

At this point, some diehard skeptics and atheists may

snort, “Come on, this is just a sentimental, sectarian

unproven belief.â€

 

Then are we to consider eminent thinkers throughout history –

Leonardo Da Vinci, Pythagoras, Albert Einstein, Leo

Tolstoy, George Bernard Shaw, Mahatma Gandhi, Benjamin

Franklin, Henry David Thoreau, J H Kellogg and Adam Smith -

to be sentimental fools? For they have all warned humanity

to desist from animal slaughter. Consider for example the

poignant remark of Pythagoras, “As long as men massacre

animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the

seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.â€

 

Also the materialistic idea that nature works by chance is

as much a matter of faith as the spiritual idea that nature

works under God’s control. Modern reductionistic science has

not proven, but presumed a priori, the non-existence of God

and His system of karmic justice.

 

But are we to accept karma on faith? Or is there any

empirical way to validate it? The Vedic scriptures explain

that karmic punishment comes upon humanity in the form of

three types of miseries called the tri-vidha tapa. If the

theory of karma were true, then

these miseries should have increased over the last century

in which karmic misdeeds have multiplied manifold.

 

The three types of miseries along with their status over the

last century are:

 

Miseries caused by our own bodies and minds (adhyatmika-

klesha): e.g. fever, indigestion, stress, depression

 

We have eradicated some diseases, but many more incurable,

debilitating and excruciatingly painful diseases – AIDS,

syphilis, cancer, Alzheimer’s disease, to name a few - have

come up. And the mind is ravaging the human race like never

before in recorded human history. Psychological and

psychosomatic disorders leading to stress, depression,

insanity, addictions and suicides are causing havoc in the

lives of practically everyone - even so-called successful

people

 

Miseries caused by other living beings (adhibhautika-

klesha): e.g. mosquitoes, competitors, superiors, relatives

 

Rivalry, envy, hatred, bigotry, criminality, violence,

murder and terrorism are tormenting us more than ever

before. Human relationships have hit an all-time low. We

proud moderns are unable to trust our own spouses, parents

or children. Divorces are destroying the family, the basic

building block of stable society.

 

Miseries caused by higher natural powers (adhidaivika-

klesha): e.g. Extreme heat or cold,

floods, storms

 

Over the last century natural calamities have been

increasing in both their frequency and ferocity. According

to the International Society for Disaster Reduction (ISDR),

there were three times as many great natural disasters in

the 1990s as in the 1960s, while disaster costs increased

more than nine-fold in the same period. The deaths from

natural disasters have increased from 53,000 in 1990 to

83,000 in 2003.

 

Therefore for the intelligent, the reality of karma is not

difficult to see. We can never break the law; we can only

break ourselves against the law. A stubborn fool who jumps

from the top of a hundred-story building can imagine that

there is no law of gravity – but only till he hits the

ground. Similarly we can go on with our godless sinful ways,

imagining that there are no karmic laws – but only till the

karmic reactions hit us as tsunamis or terrorism or wars or

ecological disasters or in some other way.

 

HARMONIZE WITH GOD

 

So if we actually want to minimize the casualties due to

natural calamities, better detection techniques will not be

of much help. Even if we detect a calamity in time and save

ourselves from it, our karma will still detect us and give

us our due suffering in some other way. Unlike our penal

system, karma is a flawless system of justice. By science or

some other material means, we may change when, where and how

our karmic reactions come upon us, but we will never be able

to escape them. Therefore if we want to be saved from

suffering, we have to scrupulously avoid bad karma ourselves

by giving up all illicit sex and meat eating, which are the

root causes of abortion and animal slaughter. Further we can

protect ourselves from our past misdeeds by re-harmonizing

ourselves with God. This can be very easily and effectively

done by adopting the non-sectarian, universal meditation on

the holy names of God, especially the maha-mantra Hare

Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama

Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. When a criminal becomes law-

abiding, the severity of punishment is often reduced. This

principle is all the more true in cosmic justice, for God is

our benevolent Father. Then even in this life and in this

world, by harmonizing with God we can be much more peaceful

and joyful than by defying God.

 

And if we wish to truly help our fellow citizens on this

planet, humanitarian aid will not be enough. We have to

offer spiritual aid by giving the enlightenment and

empowerment that comes from God consciousness. That alone

will equip them to protect themselves from both bad karma

and its reactions.

 

OUR ETERNAL SHELTER

 

Of course even if we live in harmony with God, this world

will still remain a place of death. Many of us may have been

shocked to see the ghastly sights of so many dead bodies in

the aftermath of the tsunami. But statistics tell us that

the daily deaths in the whole world are 147945, which

exceeds the total tsunami toll till date. If death is so

rampant and universal in the world, why are we so shocked by

it? Because we have specialized in hiding and forgetting the

reality of death when it takes its toll gradually

through “normal†ways. But when death takes a sudden and

massive toll, our delusions are exposed - at least

temporarily. Â

 

The Vedic scriptures urge us to not dream in vain for a

happy life in this world, where death may overcome us at any

moment. None of us wants to die; yet every one of us will be

forced to die. This existential incompatibility indicates

that we belong, not to this world of death, but to a world

of eternal life. The Vedic texts explain that we are not

mortal material bodies, but immortal spirit souls. We belong

to an eternal spiritual world, the kingdom of God, where we

live forever in a joyous harmony with God as His beloved

children. When we rebel against God’s authority, we are

placed in the material world to experience the imagined joys

and the real sorrows of living independent of Him. Equipped

with material bodies – human or subhuman, we try to play

God, competing and fighting to control and enjoy as much as

we can. But no matter how great we become or imagine

ourselves to be, nature ultimately crushes our egos through

death.

 

The Vedic texts inform us that, during our troubled journey

in this material world, we have gone through millions of

lives. Therefore rather than being shocked at seeing so many

dead people, we can soberly remember that we have ourselves

undergone the trauma of death millions of times. And the

same ordeal awaits us again in the not-too-distant future.

So the Bhagavad-gita (13.8-12) urges all intelligent persons

to recognize the inevitable, inescapable evils of birth, old

age, disease and death that haunt all life in this world.

The Gita further urges us to re-awaken our dormant spiritual

natures by living in devotion to God. Thus we can detach

ourselves from material things which will be snatched away

at the time of death and attach ourselves to God, with whom

we will be eternally united after death.Â

 

The Vedic scriptures therefore assert that the sufferings of

this world are not due to God’s malevolence, but due to His

benevolence. A fever impels us to take medicine to cure

ourselves. The heat of the fire causes us to instantly

withdraw our finger and thus save it from being burnt.

Similarly the sufferings of this world remind us that our

hopes of becoming happy in this world are intrinsically

impossible fantasies. The intelligent course of action

therefore is to prepare to return back to our home, the

spiritual world, where happiness far greater than our

greatest fantasies is awaiting us.Â

 

Are we ready to wake up from the dream of safety and

enjoyment in this world of danger and death? Or will we

sleep on till our dream turns into a nightmare, by when it

will be too late to wake up? This is the ultimate question

raised by the tsunami disaster, which each one of us will

have to individually answer.

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=krishna&Number=30348&Forum=krishna&Words=divine%20couple&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=30348&Search=true#Post30348

 

Most of it is in the link that was given in the post above, has a lot of references here and there, ive emailed the devotee who first told me about it a few years ago, I will post if if its anything different from the discussion above.

Very useful quotes, cheers prabhuji