Catholic devotee of Christ

It has got nothing to do with his(Paarsurrey) personal preferences.He is just following his holy book .It is also his religious duty to tell christians that they are wrong in worshipping jesus

Well, it is known that we (in case you hadn't noticed, I'm Christian) went through our phase in the middle ages of what basically amounts to terrorism, too. So, in some ways I understand why they are so adamant.

This is some amazing talent. Tromp l'ieo or something it is called. trick of the eye.

I'm lucky to be able to draw a stick figure!

This is a good article. It seems to reinforce good reasons for fasting, if not only eating less. I have noticed in my own spiritual journey that whenever I fasted it seemed to increase my awareness of things on a higher level. As a Catholic I can only relate it to my own faith. Many of our saints and even Jesus emphasized fasting. There is an example in the Bible where the apostles were trying to cast out a demon and they couldn't do it. Jesus did it for them. When they asked him why they were unable, He replied,"this kind comes out only with prayer and fasting".

I am interested in examples of this sort from your own faith. I believe that there is much in common in spite of the cultural differences.

You can find plenty of spice:P if u get deeper in to paar surrey's(The initiator of this thread) objection to worshipping jesus.

 

Quran explicitly condemns worshipping jesus as evidenced in verse 9:30

 

Quran 9.30 : The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

I ran across him in another forum. He said he can't get back on this one.He asked me to try and get him back in. So, I asked the administrators. He said he didn't do anything wrong. I haven't seen him post anything troll like on the Catholic forums. We have actually agreed on a few things, like the universality of all religions....

Hi Catholic Vegan,

Never noticed the vegan part before. That's great. I am also.I also am enjoying this conversation.

 

 

 

The thing is God or Parabrahman is everyone's higher self not just Jesus'. The difference is Lord Jesus Christ is one with the Higher Self or God while we are in illusion and forgetfull of our connection to our Higher Self.

 

And the eternal oneness comes in when we realize we all have the same Higher Self. But while realizing we all have the same Higher Self, Krishna, Yaweh, Allah we remain, as does He, autonomus beings.

So the point is Christ prayed to another autonomous person, the Supreme Person , and not to Himself. This in spite of his being one with God. I believe this is a vital point we must be clear on.

Hi, theist! It's always a pleasure to chat with you.

My understanding is thus...God(YwYh)and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all three one and the same. God is like Jesus' higher self. I am not sure what the proper Hindu word for it is. We each have a higher self,no? We have three parts to us,body soul and spirit, no?, The same with Jesus, there is Jesus, god and Holy Spirit.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all three the same being.

Problem is that the food industry is run by meat eaters and they don't want to lose control over the food market. They sell already all kind of replacements for meat but it is all produced by meat eaters who just want to make money. So this should be stopped, meat eaters shouldnt be allowed to produce food for vegetarians because they don't care if this is actually healthy food. For example there are so many delicious kofta recipes, why vegetarians need artificial meat? This is just insane. But because the food industry is run by ferocious meat eaters they want to teach us what we should eat, because they want to make the money?

All this madness only developed to this extent because the Vaishnava institutions have lost credibility and became useless to properly preach even about the most basic - eating.

I agree. It is said in my tradition that the love of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself, but the love of money.

Agreed. You can't force someone into loving you by using mantras. That is manipulation.

 

However, if you promise your girlfriend eternal damnation if she refuses to love you, then that is a different story. Try it - and watch general love blossom!

There must be something here I do not understand.How can someone promise eternal damnation? First it sounds like he would still be trying to manipulate her with fear.Second, to my catholic ears it sounds heinously arrogant. Please enlighten me on this.

The question of "what is that I'm eating" is one I don't like to face. The soilent green scenario will be more possible with the "advances"...that's why I will stick to real food instead of ANYTHING processed!

I'm with you on that one!

Just how far will it go? How long will it take before we have a 'Soylent Green' type scenario?

from this link

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/teachers/lessonplans/science/gmofoods.html

"Bacteria are used to produce human protein, such as insulin, through the insertion of the human gene into their genome. Additionally, goats have been engineered to produce valuable human protein in their milk and pigs to produce hemoglobin in large quantities in their blood."

I'm just curious? Check out this link...what do you think?

http://www.examiner.com/x-1051-Independent-Examiner~y2009m1d28-Would-you-eat-meat-without-feet

What would you say if someone handed you a juicy steak, and then told you that no animal had been killed in the making of it? In fact, that this meat was grown in a laboratory?

Before you spit the meat out, bear with me a moment. That delicious steak is the real deal. It isn’t soy, or seaweed, or some new-fangled polyester. It’s the actual flesh of a cow, but not from a cow that has ever actually lived, breathed, or died.

Never happen? Well it's already happened, and now we're just trying to figure out how to mass produce it.

Welcome to meat without feet. This scenario is not a pipe-dream compromise between meat-lovers and vegans, but rather a petri-dish reality that, like it or not, is coming soon.

The <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Washington</st1:city> <st1:state w:st="on">D.C.</st1:state></st1:place> research firm New Harvest is just one group developing the technology to actually clone meat cells without the need, expense, or health concerns of raising entire legions of beasts to slaughter.

more at link

And so when the mission of the Avatar is complete he goes back to merge into the Father as you see it?

No. Every living being is autonomous. Even Jesus. That is almost as absurd as trying to crawl back into your mother's womb. All living things are eternal, spiritually.

Catholic this is what started it off. You said:

 

And I challenged the validity of that statement (not your right to believe it).

 

I offered this from the Bible:

 

And I emphasized verse 11.

 

This whole section is a prayer by Christ to God the Father. He is speaking to another person. He is not speaking to himself. Therefore there is someone superior to Christ whom Christ is serving. This is clear all through the new testament.

 

Concerning verse 11; Christ is praying that his disciples become one with the Lord as he is one with the Lord.

 

Under your interpretation that Jesus is himself the Supreme God, the only purport possible is that Jesus is praying to God(Himself) that his disciples become God just as he is God.

 

I want to go slow with this so that we track well with each other and an understanding may be reached. At which time of course you may decide I am wrong but at least you will understand what I am saying.

 

Do you see that. What are you thoughts so far?

 

Hare Krishna! Jaya Yeshua!

Good evening theist.

Yes. In a manner of speaking Jesus DID pray to himself.

We see God as a trinity. God=1)The Father,2)The son3)The Holy Spirit

Since we are created in Gods image, we posses the same attributes. Soul, Body and Spirit. The Father is the Soul=the Universe.(Brahma?) The Son is Jesus (Avatar) and the Holy Spirit is,well,the spirit.

Thank you but stick around long enough and you will probably change your mind.

I certainly hope it is not your goal to make enemies. It takes more strength to be charitable than it does to be mean.

Yes that is a theory that some have put forth. I have no idea. Anyway time certainly predates any universal happening.

Hey theist! How ya doin'?

I really have no idea either. But, it is fascinating. I don't know how much relevance it as on my life. This is one of those instances where I just accept that God is eternal.

BTW, Theist is correct in his presentation --it is not a new nor original concept.

 

All cosmic affairs are preformed by plenary portions of the whole.

 

Theist is fully read on these topics** and it should be a challenge for any one to speak contrary to him without doing their home work.

 

Remember most of us are awake only 16 hours per day and most of that is pre-occupied with just a short burst of concentrated effort per day--it takes years of study in any field to get it all sorted out.

 

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The tendency to offer advise when one is actually not thoroughly informed is commonplace --yet such a tendency is dishonest and is an act of propagating data that is 'for all intents and purposes' not verified to the best of ones judgement --such acts accrues undesirable karmic re-action [it is similar to paying 'false witness'].

 

The best way for chaos to flourish is for good men to invent any old thing in lieu of authentic scholarship.

 

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The only thing to avoid is digressions of any sort--"keep on task" while discussing/requesting investigative scholarship work.

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doshas? Don't you mean Besan dohkla?

Oh, doshas. You mean like prana and kudalini & potatos?

I assure you that if I am in doubt about any thing I have to say I will tell you.I am not afraid to admit if I am wrong. I am a student of life like everyone else. There is no way for me to prove to you who or what I am over the internet other than to be caught in a lie. Which would only prove me to be a liar.

I see that theist is well versed in many fields. I have perused his posts.

You're Ok with me, theist.

Don't you mean doshas? Anyway please address verse 11 directly including it's implications.

Potaytoe-potahtoe.

I am frustrated that many of the nuances in daily conversation are lost in communication over the internet. Please accept my apologies if I came off in any manner other than charitable.

From John 17

 

 

 

It is clear to see that Jesus is talking in terms of plural relationships between himself and the Supreme Lord as well as his disciples.

 

Verse 11 clearly indicates that Jesus wants his disciples to be one with God just as he is one with God.

 

From the impersonalist viewpoint that means merging into an impersonal oneness.

 

For the personalist oneness means one in loving relationship.

Honestly, theist, I am not quite sure what you are getting at. It appears as if you are now agreeing with me. The verse you are referring to reinforces what I already said. It actually implies that His followers are Him by proxy if not in essence. Sort of like an avatar that is now multi-faceted and incarnate.

It has always pained me to see impersonalism so entrenched in Christianity. Not all by any means but by many. There is such a lack of jnana in the bible that when some want for deeper knowledge they end up getting some impersonalist teaching from their local metaphysical bookstore and then trying to incorporate that into Christianity.

 

 

I asked this question of the Catholic but received no answer.

 

 

Maybe this time if he is through casting insults.

Theist,

I cast no insults. I merely observe and state the facts. So, in this instance, my 'impersonalism' is justified.

To suggest that there is no 'jnana' in the Bible only reveals how little of it you truly understand. I'm not getting personal here. Merely making an observation.

Indeed we will become one with Christ and God the father. It is called 'The Bride of Christ'. I would refer you to 1st Corinthians chapter 12.

The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9;21:1-2).

I would go on. But, it would prove to be a pedantic exercise, at best. For i do not believe you have any intention of listening.

I am sorry if this causes you to feel insulted. Perhaps your gunas are out of balance?

Some people here think they know Christianity and [Hindu metaphysical analysis] better than followers of those who [speculate about bouncing/& recocheting molecules and pass it off as theology] traditions.

 

Arrogance is what I call it.

Their barking on this forum is worth nothing.

 

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It takes a barker to recognise a barker.

 

my boy Bill's carnival barker,

Bhaktajan

Who let the dogs out?

 

I did not tell you what to believe so there is no need for you to get so defensive believe what you like but don't pretend to represent all Catholics or Christians. I know Catholics and protestants who believe that Jesus is the Son and not the Father and that is eternally so.

 

 

 

Oh really?

yeah,...really...

Thank you and I am sure your intentions are good also. Many Christians believe as you do and many don't.

 

I am sorry to say your understanding has been tainted by the impersonalist school of thought which says God appears as a human being, does some act or gives some teaching and then that human expression merges back into Himself as God.

 

Jesus expression His deaire to His disciples that they would be one with the Father just as He was one with the Father.

 

So are you suggesting that those disciples and by extension yourself will one day become one with the Father as Jesus was and that oneness is to be God themselves?

 

This 100% against the teaching and example of Jesus and is very dangerous.

 

Sorry to be so blunt.

I think you are looking for attention and will argue with anybody just to have something to do. Turn off your computer and meditate.

Just a suggestion.

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Jesus was not vaisnava --but he was sent by Visnu </td></tr></tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

""Bhaktajan, you need to upgrade your definition of Vaisnava.""

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

<!-- / message -->Are you sure I haven't installed the latest updates?

Krishna says in the Gita 4.7:

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, --and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself."

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Ergo, a burning bush; a profit; stone tablets; sacrificial lamb; a paramahansa; a boddhisattva; et al --all according to time and place as per the receptivity/cultural sophistication of the masses present.

--Is this speculation on my part [since Krsna is quoted as saying, 'I descend Myself']?<!-- sig -->

Yes many Christians believe this but it is incorrect and against the teachings of Jesus Himself.

 

Jesus says "I and the Father are one". But then He says "the Father is greater than I".

 

This is the same teaching that Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught 1,500 years later in India when He was here. Oneness and simultaneous difference.

- For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6- “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He.Before me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior" Isaiah 43:10,11

(Jesus made all things)John 1:3; Colossians 1:16

-John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23- that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, "I and My Father are one" Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God."

John 14:6,7- Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifest in the flesh,Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13- looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7- For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8- “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13- “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”...

22:16- “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

I am not going to tell you what you believe. It impolite to assume that I don't know my own faith. I respect all faiths accepting those which feel compelled to change the validity of anothers.

What you have just done is detrimental to your spiritual development. One needs to purge the self of Ego in order to achieve true knowledge.

Hello All,

 

I was in love with a girl for last 5-6 years and now she had suddenly started ignoring me, she don't pick up my calls and when i some how contacted her she start crying and just tell me leave her. Please help me with some mantras or any other technique with which i can get her back.

 

you can directly send me reply on l.predictions@gmail.com too

 

Thanks

What you are asking seems to be wrong. How can you know you are truly in love if you have manipulated her into loving you through mantras? You will know when you are in love because she will love you back. If you really love her you will let her go because you would truly want her to be happy. Otherwise, your love isn't love at all. But a selfish type of possesive obsession.

Sorry.