Catholic devotee of Christ

Then you do so in clear violation of Biblical tenets as described previously.

 

 

 

The problems in your religion become apparent when one simply points out the very things your scriptures say, and people like you respond with vehement accusations of "promoting hate" and "arrogance." Why spew your venom at me? Have I said anything that is incorrect? On the contrary, it is all there in the Bible for everyone to see.

 

My experience with Christians is very similar to this. You are only too happy to preach your views to others, but when others question the validity of your views with reference to some of the disturbing things described in your scriptures, you become very hostile and defensive.

whatever...:rolleyes:I think you're alright. I just have to be open to all forms of the godhead. I feel like the veteran of a thousand psychic wars... you know...everyone wants to prove their point. i am sometimes feeling like I do not care anymore. Why should I? What is there to gain?

I do not wish for you and I to be at odds. I only know what I experience. I never meant to be hurtful. I just do what i think is right. Sometimes it is not right.

The similarities between religions are there for all to see. They just don't want to see them because politics get in the way. One needs to be able to move past the narrow-mindedness of our ancestors and establish the love they talked about but wouldn't do because of the politics and emotion and ego they couldn't see past.

Love not bombs. If I seem defensive it is only because I felt attacked.

He who screams the loudest has the least to say.

Dear freind..

i had read about your mesage.. and its nice to know about ur intrest on knowing other religion and i m great to know about ur intrest for other devotee and followers.. you know brother there is various kind of BHAKTI in India and in that also very much kind of believes towards god and godess.. so let me tell you small description about the bhakti..

like some belives pure inner soule and belives in good karma and other belives in channting and praying..

in what religion we got birth that is our root cannel and also we will apprciate it and i will suggest all religion are good and the true peace is inside the body and for that peace people look whole around the world, and also there is nothing bad to go for channting about Om Namah shiway or any other god.. becuase god is one and there is in Up side there is only one who had created this universe and every thing and we are only the Part of our role in this life.. so there is variation of name, and relgion but all are same..

i every year went to purtapatii sai baba becoz of my some freinds every year come to india over there and i go every year there to meet them. and i had seen there , my schooling and education was in Maharishi campus where I learned meditaion, yoga, he was saint, and again the toughts of delighten the body are of same even in saibaba, vivekanand, Maharishi, shankaracharya.. just the names are differnt..

i want to write more and more about it.. but i gues i dont want to make you bored

regards

adwait tripathi

Amen, or should I say, "OM".(in a monotonic Bb {'B' flat}drone);)Go to the thread 'Help needed to save love. (Ironic name for what it turned into)

and tell raghu that.

Catholic,

 

Christians do not believe in the "universalism of all faiths."

 

I do not think any religion does, because it is impossible for one to logically justify accepting other religious traditions with ideas that are different and often contradictory to one's own.

 

But what makes Christianity self-defeating is this idea that you get one shot at salvation, and either end up in eternal heaven or eternal hell based on what you do. So, all other religions are wrong, and their followers go to hell. Which means if you live in a corner of the world without Christianity, then you automatically go to hell. If you were born before the advent of Christianity, you go to hell, etc etc.

 

This makes the "god" of Christianity partial and cruel. More on this later.

 

Unless of course you over-interpret the use of the present tense in John 14:6 in which Jesus gives his definitive statement of exclusivism. Interpreting in this way may allow you to suggest that Jesus is "presently" the only way to God - but then that still excludes other people who were sincerely following their respective religions during the same time period. Would a Jew in a far-flung corner of the Roman empire automatically be damned to Hell because he was not following Jesus when Jesus was living? That would be the logical conclusion of your interpretation. Another logical conclusion is that the remainder of the Bible is only valid for the specific time in which those teachings were spoken, which would again invalidate Christianity today.

 

The god of the Old Testament is, without a doubt, a very cruel and whimsical god who inflicts pain and torture on innocent people. In the Book of Exodus, we read that "God" repeatedly inflicts pain and suffering on the people of Egypt because pharaoh refused to heed the demands of Moses. This view of God along with all other ideas like some people are "chosen" by God are not very palatable to intelligent people. In the Vedic tradition, Sri Krishna is guilty of becoming involved in the political affairs of man when His devotees prayed for His intervention, but He did not torture civilians just to enforce His superiority. Quite the contrary - He gave Arjuna the option of listening to His teachings or ignoring them entirely. Sri Vishnu is not a "jealous God" who punishes people for engaging in wrong forms of worship.

You worship your God and I will worship mine. If you really care about people then you would do your best to see the issue resolved instead of promoting hate.

I am grateful for your challenges. You are forcing me to learn more about my faith. This is a good thing.

I apologize for my errors in typing and such. It may take me a while to get back to you on your last post.I want to make sure that what I say is correct.

I admit that many of my fellow Catholics may view me as somewhat of a heretic. But, I am convinced in the universalism of all faiths. i came here to learn more about yours. It seems the tables have turned, however.

I shall endeavor to provide a rebuttal.

Christianity is not a champion when it concerns compassion for animals.

It is quite restricted in terms for compassion..

 

But I should thank lord Jesus for his immense contribution.

There are a few of us, Amlesh.

First, chandu, I wish to apologize for my frustration. I have failed in my communication. For this, I am angry at myself and I took it out on you. I posted the paragragh from the Catechism, but failed to expound upon it from the modern Catholic point of view.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

<dl><dd>Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.</dd><dt>:deal:It is important to remember that this is written BY Catholics FOR Catholics and those who seek conversion into the Church. Those who have accepted its truth are now bound to it.

</dt><dt>847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: </dt></dl><dl><dd>Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.</dd><dt>Those who are not in the Catholic Church are not bound by its doctrine.-"those too may achieve eternal salvation."

</dt></dl>Allow me to expound upon this from the Christian scriptures. I would like for bija and bhaktajan to know that I appreciate their efforts to compare this with the scriptures from their tradition

Romans chapter 2 <table width="100%" border="0" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top">14 So, when gentiles,(non-Jewish) not having the Law,(the doctrine of the Jewish people) still through their own innate sense behave as the Law commands,(do those things naturally) then, even though they have no Law, they are a law for themselves. </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> 15 They can demonstrate the effect of the Law engraved on their hearts, (they show how the Law is a natural part of their being)to which their own conscience bears witness; since they are aware of various considerations,(they are able to discern right from wrong) some of which accuse them,(some things cause them shame or guilt) while others provide them with a defence (some things they are content with). . . on the day when, </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top">

23 If, while you are boasting of the Law, you disobey it, then you are bringing God into contempt. (If you act like you know about these things, but do not adhere to it, then you are giving God a bad name.)

24 As scripture says: It is your fault that the name of God is held in contempt among the nations. (People who talk the talk but don't walk the walk are the reason why everyone hates God.)

I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting what I posted before in post#21, because I think you are truly trying to understand what the modern Catholic church teaches and that you don't necessarily have an agenda to try and make my faith look bad.

"Jesus never said he was the ONLY way. In John 14:6 we read, ”I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.” In the original Greek version of this scripture, the word for “comes” is erchetai and it is very present tense meaning it does not apply to all people for all time. This verse applied ONLY to those people Jesus was talking to at that time. In the Aramaic Bible, Jesus’ own language, the word for “I” in this scripture is ena-ena or I-I. The meaning is NOT the same as ena which is an individual “I.” ("me") Ena-ena is a cosmic “I” or I AM THAT I AM(YWHW,or Jehovah) (Ex. 3:13 -14). In another scripture, Jesus tells us that we make a mistake if we think he is good, "Why do you call me good?"‘Jesus answered.’ "No one is good-except God alone" (Luke 18:19). And again: "By myself I can do nothing" (John 5:30). The way to reconcile “I am the way...” And “Don’t call me good...” is to understand that it is the I AM(YHWH-Iam that I am-even more correctly I am the ever becoming) (ena-ena) that is talking in John 14:6. The I AM is bigger than Jesus in the same way that all the water on this earth is more than any individual lake. By analogy, Jesus, Buddha and Krishna ...(John 10:16,I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.)...are lakes filled with the one living I AM.

In another scripture, Jesus clearly says the only requirement for attaining eternal life is loving God and loving our neighbor:

Luke 10:25-28 “On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. ‘Teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’

‘What is written in the Law?’ he replied. ‘How do you read it?’ He answered: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

‘You have answered correctly,’ Jesus replied. ‘Do this and you will live.'"

If believing in Jesus were necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus would have been guilty of lying to the temple official in this scripture. Not a single time did Jesus ever warn about other religions. Rather, he said, “And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.” (Luke 9:49-50). "

In Luke 9:49,50 it says,

49 John spoke up. 'Master,' he said, 'we saw someone driving out devils in your name, and because he is not with us we tried to stop him.' 50 But Jesus said to him, 'You must not stop him: any one who is not against you is for you'.

Just because there is confusion because of the EVangelical TV preachers' "Sola Scripture" interpretation of the Bible seeping in to the ideas of Cathoics who are not in full communion with the church does not make it so.

aif this doesn't make it easier for you to understand the official church stance on this issue, then I believe it is because you do not want to.

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Purely on the basis of Catechism of the Catholic Church:

 

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?³³⁵ Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

 

This is "vatican 2"-http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm\

 

Nothing changed much dear catholic

Keep interpreting it your own way. I grow weary of your vincible ignorance. You have no desire to learn. You only wish to refute. And your evidence is incorrect.

I presented the evidence. You gave me polemics and speculation. When you get Catechized correctly, then you can try and tell me about my faith.

Go back to post #21:smash:

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The mahabharata war is not on account of somebody not worshipping some god.Get it.No unbeleiver is attacked for being an unbeleiver.

You have failed to grasp the point.

All of the individuals involved in the various travesty of war for whatever reason it is waged are following their dharma.

I am glad Moses broke the first set of tablets with all those rules. But why Moses? Why so many rules...

Matthew 22

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

on a side note...

I wonder if there is a connection between 'Saddhucees' and 'Saddhu'. There is much in linguistics to suggest this. The same with 'Abraham' and 'Brahmin'.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by theist

"I often cause some minor trouble by trying to sound clever."

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I'm just the messanger, so don't crucify me for saying the following:

 

The above quote is mine, mine, mine.

 

Please cite your refereces & give credit to proper up-starts.

Maybe I have been plagerising theist's schtick? Sorry.

Imitation is the highest expression of flattery!

This verse has always caught my attention. I would like to know what the original word for 'food' was. If it was just talking about the belly, or more about sustenance and survival.

 

Everything is complete within nature for the sustenance of man. But still he seems to have a hard time of it.

So, I am curious. If we are to think that the Koran promotes violence against other religions, should it be banned or edited? Is the correct path to follow? Wouldn't it be better to try and accept it contextually rather than literally?

from http://arvindsharma.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/31-the-bhadavadgita-at-war/

The ancients were already concerned with the violence in the Mahābhārata and according to one tradition the sages requested Vyāsa to compose another work which corrected this impression. The Bhāgavata Purāṇa is said to have been composed as a result.

It would seem that in all fairness, that all books should then be either banned or edited for the sake of 'political correctness'.

Just curious...

Plants and its products have always been necessary in both Worship of god(Vedic Tradition) and also in healing(Ayurveda)

 

Can any one let me know the right procedure and the worship which has to be done to plants before we pluck their flowers .. or ,, fruits - Any procedures as per shastras? I want to know about it

 

Dear learned people, Please contribute:)

I, too, would like to know.

I will share this for what it is worth.

The Canticle of Creation - Saint Francis of Assisi.....

 

Most high, all powerful, good Lord, to You be praise, glory and honor and all blessing.

To You alone, Most High, do they belong, and there is no man worthy to name You.

Praise be to You, my Lord, with all Your creatures.

Chief of all is Sir Brother Sun, who is our day; through whom You give light. Beautiful is he, radiant, with great splendor. He is a true revealer of You, Most High.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for Sister Moon and for the stars. In heaven You have formed them, bright, precious and fair.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for Brother Wind, and for the air, and for the cloud, for clear sky and for all weathers, by which You give nourishment to all Your creatures.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for Sister Water. She is most useful and humble, precious and pure.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for Brother Fire, by whom You light up the night. Fair is he and merry, mighty and strong.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and keeps us. She brings forth divers fruits, the many-hued flowers and grass.

You, my Lord, for those who grant pardon for love of You, and bear weakness and buffetings. Blessed are they who live in peace, for by You, Most High, shall they be crowned.

Praise be to You, my Lord, for our Sister, Bodily Death, From whom no living man can flee. Woe to them who die in mortal sin! But blessed they who shall find themselves in Your most holy will; to them the second death shall do no ill.

Eating meat before or after a flood is equally illogical. Protein comes in the form of amino acids. Meat eaters get amino acids from animal muscle tissue. The animals get their amino acids from the plants that they eat.

The amount of land needed to produce X grams of beef protein is far less than the amount of land needed to produce the equivalent amount of soybean or hemp protein - it is a very inefficient way to acquire protein.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/forage/forage.html

• “If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million”
  
• “Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel energy than production of plant protein while yielding animal protein that is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of plant protein.”
  
• “Chicken meat production consumes energy in a 4:1 ratio to protein output; Beef cattle has ratio of 54:1; Lamb meat stands at 50:1, 13:1 for turkey meat and 14:1 for milk protein to 17:1 for pork and 26:1 for eggs.”
  
• “More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans.”
  
• “Each year an estimated 41 million tons of plant protein is fed to U.S. livestock to produce an estimated 7 million tons of animal protein for human consumption.”
  
• “On average, animal protein production in the U.S. requires 28 kilocalories (kcal) for every kcal of protein produced for human consumption. Grain production, on average, requires 3.3 kcal of fossil fuel for every kcal of protein produced.”
  
• “U.S. agriculture accounts for 87 percent of all the fresh water consumed each year.”

Why would a supreme being suggest such a thing? If man was going to figure it out, he would have. If he didn't figure it out he would have been much better off just eating whatever plant matter that the primates and bears who came off the ark found to eat (according to the myth there were only eight humans to feed). Or manna could have fallen from heaven as it did for Moses much later. Or sufficient stores of hemp, soybeans, almonds, apples, bananas, oranges, etc. could have been zapped into existence with the same ease that those animal skins were zapped into existence for the naked Adam and Eve (even though non-violent alternatives like cotton or wool would have sufficed). This kind of irrationality needs apologists to work full time trying to explain away the many inconsistencies and contradictions.

 

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 

Polemics don't hold much weight.

you quoted Romans before...I recall there is similar comments by Paul that says 'mans conscience will condemn him'. Something like that?

 

Similarly,in the Gita we read in 3:13 that spiritual people partaking of vegetarian food that has been offered in puja receive a multitude of blessings. While those who eat it for the sake of filling their stomachs are eating in sin.(from memory, I don't have a copy...I guess i could google it...

A flash of all the things that have hurt other living entities comes at times of great stress for some, even at the point of death. Enlightening...

 

Some therapies like Iboga-click really bring harm home to the conscience...and transforms the man. I am sure the passover will be of similar healing for the progression of us all...what to say of the innocent animals.

I do not personally use drugs. I have in the past.I know that a lot of cultures do. Under the supervision of a qualified spiritual director,...blah,blah,blah

I am not going to make a judgment call on the use of drugs.I will tell you why I do not use them.

Why would I want to cause my sensory perceptors and neural synapses to misinterpret data?

That is all I will say on that.

And on that note...

goodnight:sleep:

My dear Nimai Pandita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical.

PURPORT

The sastras of the yavanas, or meat-eaters, are not eternal scriptures. They have been fashioned recently, and sometimes they contradict one another. The scriptures of the yavanas are three: the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran. Their compilation has a history; they are not eternal like the Vedic knowledge. Therefore although they have their arguments and reasonings, they are not very sound and transcendental. As such, modern people advanced in science and philosophy deem these scriptures unacceptable. Sometimes Christian priests come to us inquiring, “Why are our followers neglecting our scriptures and accepting yours?” But when we ask them, “Your Bible says, ’Do not kill.’ Why then are you killing so many animals daily?” they cannot answer. Some of them imperfectly answer that the animals have no souls. But then we ask them, “How do you know that animals have no souls? Animals and children are of the same nature. Does this mean that the children of human society also have no souls?” According to the Vedic scriptures, within the body is the owner of the body, the soul. In the Bhagavad-gita (2.13) it is said:

 

dehino ’smin yatha dehe

kaumaraṁ yauvanaṁ jara

tatha dehantara-praptir

dhiras tatra na muhyati

 

“As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.”

Because the soul is within the body, the body changes through so many forms. There is a soul within the body of every living entity, whether animal, tree, bird or human being, and the soul is transmigrating from one type of body to another. When the scriptures of the yavanas-namely, the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran-cannot properly answer inquisitive followers, naturally those advanced in scientific knowledge and philosophy lose faith in such scriptures. The Kazi admitted this while talking with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The Kazi was a very intelligent person. He had full knowledge of his position, as stated in the following verse.

Adi 17.169

As for the Meat eaters comment. Well,...

Genesis 1:29 God also said, 'Look, to you I give all the seed-bearing plants everywhere on the surface of the earth, and all the trees with seed-bearing fruit; this will be your food. 30 And to all the wild animals, all the birds of heaven and all the living creatures that creep along the ground, I give all the foliage of the plants as their food.' And so it was.

Man was not meant to eat meat. It is not until after the flood that God gave man permission to eat meat.

Genesis 9:3<table width="100%" border="0" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top">3 Every living thing that moves will be yours to eat, no less than the foliage of the plants. I give you everything, </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> 4 with this exception: you must not eat flesh with life, that is to say blood, in it. </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top">5 And I shall demand account of your life-blood, too. I shall demand it of every animal, and of man. Of man as regards his fellow-man, I shall demand account for human life.

I am not real sure here, but it sounds to me like God is going to take into account every animal we kill.

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LOL!

 

Come on:rolleyes:...did you guys really write it. Or did the heart of man;).

2 Timothy chapter 3

<sup>

</sup>16 All scripture is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, for guiding people's lives and teaching them to be upright. 17 This is how someone who is dedicated to God becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work.

Does this specify Jewish scripture? Christian scripture? No. It says ALL scripture.

I understand Ganesha wrote the Mahabharata.

I will leave it up to you, bija, to decide who wrote it!

I don't understand why people think that Catholics don't understand the very book that WE (Catholics) wrote:confused:

It makes me wonder what kind of society in-grains such narrow and intolerant religious thinking...

 

From these statements it is no wonder that religious societies today have sectarian infighting, and appear to be ready to implode.

 

Narrow sectarian religion like you have expressed here is very different than many western catholics uphold (the cosmic universal christ).

 

Infact Raghu, the fundamentalists and protestants often have a hard time with the liberal and mystical catholic views - some fanatics even calling it the devil!

Thanks Skippy!

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to Biblical Christianity:

 

1) the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ

 

2) there is no other way

 

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: <dl><dd>Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. </dd></dl><table width="100%" border="0" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top">Romans 2 4)So, when gentiles, not having the Law, still through their own innate sense behave as the Law commands, then, even though they have no Law, they are a law for themselves. </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> ¹⁵ They can demonstrate the effect of the Law engraved on their hearts, to which their own conscience bears witness; since they are aware of various considerations, some of which accuse them, while others provide them with a defence . . . on the day when, </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> ¹⁶ according to the gospel that I preach, God, through Jesus Christ, judgesall human secrets. </td></tr></tbody></table>

3) those who don't get salvation go to hell eternally

64 Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations.

This being the case, whether "fundamenalist" types say it or "moderate" types ignore it, the fact is that this sort of exclusivism is a part of the doctrine.

Paul, in saying, "do not go beyond what is written," was not teaching sola scriptura. If he had, he would have been advocating one of four principles, which are inconsistent with the rest of his theology: (1) Accept as authoritative only the Old Testament writings; (2) accept as authoritative only the Old Testament writings and the New Testament writings penned as of the date Paul wrote 1 Corinthians (circa A.D. 56); (3) accept as authoritative orally transmitted doctrine only until it has been reduced to writing (scripture) and only while the apostles are alive, then disregard all oral tradition and adhere only to what is written; or (4) the most extreme position, accept as authoritative only doctrine that has been reduced to writing.

 

 

 

I wonder what all those people who were put to the sword during that "phase" hundreds of years ago about Catholicism today. After all, you may claim you "grew out" of it, but your link to Jesus is in fact through that corrupt and violent phase.

 

 

 

*cough* *cough* Are you kidding me? Catholics *actively* seek converts. They regard it as their sacred duty. In India they offer economic inducements to those who are willing to abandon their own non-Christian religion.

 

 

 

Funny, but that's not what Jesus (John 14:6) said:

 

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus never said he was the only way. In John 14:6 we read, ”I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.” In the original Greek version of this scripture, the word for “comes” is erchetai and it is very present tense meaning it does not apply to all people for all time. This verse applied only to those people Jesus was talking to at that time. In the Aramaic Bible, Jesus’ own language, the word for “I” in this scripture is ena-ena or I-I. The meaning is not the same as ena which is an individual “I.” Ena-ena is a cosmic “I” or I AM THAT I AM (Ex. 3:13 -14). In another scripture, Jesus tells us that we make a mistake if we think he is good, “Why do you call me good?” ‘Jesus answered.’ “No one is good - except God alone.” (Luke 18:19). And again: “By myself I can do nothing.” (John 5:30). The way to reconcile “I am the way...” And “Don’t call me good...” is to understand that it is the I AM (ena-ena) that is talking in John 14:6. The I AM is bigger than Jesus in the same way that all the water on this earth is more than any individual lake. By analogy, Jesus, Buddha and Krishna are lakes filled with the one living I AM. In another scripture, Jesus clearly says the only requirement for attaining eternal life is loving God and loving our neighbor:Luke 10:25-28 “On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. ‘Teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ ‘What is written in the Law?’ he replied. ‘How do you read it?’ He answered: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ‘You have answered correctly,’ Jesus replied. ‘Do this and you will live.'" If believing in Jesus were necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus would have been guilty of lying to the temple official in this scripture. Not a single time did Jesus ever warn us about other religions. Rather, he said, “And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.” (Luke 9:49-50).

Indeed, it is sad that many members of the worlds religions are dedicated in word only. Many associate with their tradition only as a means of social identification. To truly embrace it requires much effort on the side of the devotee.

On the other hand, there are many who desire ardently to serve their Lord, Guru or deity but find themselves laden with worldly responsibilities and duties.

But, heaven is filled with Saints who became Saints in similar circumstances. Who are we to discern what is the Lord's Will for these people? Can you see into their hearts?

Some catholics are very broad-minded indeed. One local priest I know during seminary and afterward developed much affection for the Benedictine way. His best friend in seminary became a disciple of Bede Griffiths.

 

I went to his local catholic church some years ago and they were very welcoming. Even more welcoming than the Hare Krsna temple that has always been very exclusive (from experience).

 

The local catholic church was very interested in my eastern faith and fully accepting of it.

To be honest catholic devotee of christ, I adore pioneers of the vatican 2 council such as Thomas Merton and Bede Griffiths.

Have you ever read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Asian-Journal-Thomas-Merton-Directions/dp/0811205703

A very interesting personal diary of Merton's first and last Asian journey.

What you said is mostly true.But you people have the "new covenant" from jesus christ.There are some elements in christianity that take the OT seriously and you have problems here and there.

This is a true statement. There are bad elements everywhere. All I can say is that I try to follow my Lord as best i can; with compassion and mercy.

A lot of the protestant/non-denominational types take the bible literally. This is called sola scriptura. The Catholic church is contextual. This means that we understand it was written for the people at the time in a manner in which they would understand it.

Why is it that Bible-thumping Christians use the "eternal hell and damnation" argument to get people to accept Christianity? Since you have just indicated that such threats to accomplish goals are manipulative and arrogant, don't you see this as a major weakness in Christianity?

It is wrong. It doesn't work this way with the Catholic church anymore. There are fundamentalists types who do, though. I think they are sincere. Just like the terrorists think they are doing the right thing. But, threatening with hellfire and brimstone is just plain wrong.

I know that the Catholic church went through a conversion at sword point phase hundreds of years ago. We grew out of that. The people who do these things today only give us a bad name.

I actually converted to Catholicism a few years ago. One of the reasons was because they don't actively seek out converts. If the Lord is calling you to him, then you will wind up where you belong. It does not matter which religion you belong to. Only that you be the best devotee that you can be.

Wow you're right. Threatening eternal damnation is certainly manipulation. You can't love someone if you are told that the alternative is eternal damnation. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Love is a verb. It is something you do, not something you 'have'. If one wishes to win the love of another, then the best thing to do is to be the best friend that person can be. As time goes on, the natural forces between two people may build into a sexual tension. After having founded a good friendship, this could lead to a REAL relationship.

Love is a commitment. Pre arranged marriages often turn into true loving relationships because both parties want it to work. If one of the members in the relationship is not willing to try and be unselfish, then the marriage is nothing more than a business transaction.

Lust is often confused for love. Especially in the formative adolescent years.