leyh

The folowing is an excerpt from My Glorious Master by Bhurijana Dasa: Stealing a heart During Prabhupada's transit through Hong Kong,I had heard that he was dissatisfied with ISKCON leadership and had temporarily disbanded the GBC.with boyish naivete and the desire to encourage hin,I brought him a 24-karat gold ring and engraved it with the words,"Jaya ISKCON." I presented this ring to Prabhupada in Hong Kong before we travelled together to Tokyo.Now as I sat with Prabhupada in Tokyo during his massage,Sudama carefully rubbed mustard oil onto Prabhupada's chest,back,legs,and hands.Sudama then noticed Prabhupada's golden "Jaya ISKCON" ring. "Prabhupada," he asked, "you have a new ring." "Yes." "Who gave it to you?" Sudama asked,as he massaged the back of Prabhupada's neck. Prabhupada slowly lifted his head and stared at me.Only the three of us were in the room and I felt softened by Prabhupada's glance. "Who gave you the ring,Prabhupada?" Sudama repeated. Prabhupada kept looking at me and said softly,"Oh, someone." *** Prabhupada could have told Sudama that I had given him the ring.Instead,he replied,"Oh,someone." When he said those two words,my heart melted and flowed to his loyus feet in the intimacy of our simple and loving secret. (Tokyo,1972) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-10-2002).] [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-12-2002).]

Yesterday,I saw a rather plump male at one of the bus-stops at my University wearing a T-shirt which proclaimed;I AM NOT OVERWEIGHT The owner of the T-shirt,whetehr kowingly or unknowingly was proclaiming a spiritual truth.The "I" the spirit soul is neither overweight nor underweight. "The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such his bodily and mental activities should be engaged in the service of Krsna, in Krsna consciousness. The ignorant man forgets that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is known as Hrsikesa, or the master of the senses of the material body, for due to his long misuse of the senses in sense gratification, he is factually bewildered by the false ego, which makes him forget his eternal relationship with Krsna." (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 3.27 By His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

Abhi: Thank you for withdrawing your curse,which I never took very seriously at all in the first place. My intention was not to offend you.I had to speak out when I see that you are using Krsna Consciousness to justify ethic cleansing and eradication of Islam I fully support defence of Dharma.That is a devotee's duty.But a devotee should not engage in any "ethnic cleansing process"You wrote in an earlier post that:"There needs to be some planned action to reduce the faith of Muslim people in their religion - which is being totally misused."This is extremist behaviour and will only provoke even more rage against Muslims.There should be planned action to educate Muslims about how the fundamentalist Muslim terrorists are misusing Islam,instead of trying to erode the religion of Islam as you seem to be implying. Maybe there was some kind of miscommunication between us.If you're saying that Hindus should defend themselves and their culture from attacks by Muslim fanatics,then I fully agree with you.But I totally disagree if you're saying that ethic cleansing should be practiced on Muslims and that propaganda should be made against Islam. Fanaticism in the name of Islam should be denounced.Not Islam. Here in Singapore,there is a large Muslim community and I personally have many Muslim friends.They are not fanatics --- just ordinary people trying to go through life and seeking happiness.Muslims come in all varieties as Islam is NOT a monolithic bloc.Show me a fanatical anti-Hindu Muslim and I can show you a peace loving Muslim. To try to "eradicate or "thwart" Islam just because of the violence of some fanatics is an extremist measure.It is also futile.Islam is here to stay on this world and we should co-operate with peaceful Muslims while defending against those who perpruate evil in its name. "So do not think that this movement is trying to convert you from Christian to Hindu.Remain a Christian,a Jew,a Muslim.It doesn't matter.But if you really want to perfect your life,then try to develop your dormant love for God.That is the perfection of life." (His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,during a lecture at Northeastern University in Boston in the summer of 1969) Here,we have Srila Prabhupada's statement that it doesn't matter whether one is a Christian,a Hindu or a Muslim.This is an implicit acceptance of Islam as a bona-fide religious process and if those who aspire to follow Srila Prabhupada's teachings should not take it upon themselves to reject what he has accepted. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-09-2002).]

Abhi: You may curse all you want,but please be careful of the karmic consequences.Hare Krsna.

Looks from here like Leyh IS the new guru after all. Tarun, some of the stuff you say is funny, sometimes interesting and sometimes makes me sick to know we have the same guru. I'd actually forgotten about your pro-Hitler/holocast-denying stance. It's not too late to repent; Hitler was extreme demon, and he was fuelled and empowered by people who ignored or minimized the monsterous evil he inflicted on innocent human beings. He tried to imitate Vishnu, steal His symbols, much like your president Bush with his Operation Enduring Freedom, while innocent people who have nothing to do with what happened on Sept. 11 die horrible deaths in caves,through 'calateral damage' and as 'brave souls' sacrificing their lives for another New World Order. I do not have the qualifications of a guru.

Abhi: I have nothing against defending Dharma.But ethnic cleansing is not defence of Dharma.It is adharma.The same goes for vilification of Islam. So it is practical to engage in ethnic cleansing and to vilify another person's religion? Instead of proposing ethnic cleansing,why not preach Lord Caitanya's message?That is the most sublime solution. You are entitled to your opinions and your writings,just as I am entitled to speak up when I see misrepresentations of Krsna Consciousness. I hope my choice of words have not offended you.Hare Krsna.

Abhi: Srila Prabhupada never taught us to engage in ethnic cleansing and villifiying of Islam. Where does Krsna give "the clarion call to kill all the miscreants for the sake of dharma."? Stop mis-quoting Krsna to justify your own sectarianism! Krsna could kill miscreants and demons because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.We cannot imitate Him.Can you lift up Govardhana Hill with your finger? My request to you is that you stop using Krsna and Srila Prabhupada to justify your barbaric views.It is one thing to defend Vedic sites and Vedic community.I have nothing against that.It is a devotee's duty to defend. But it is another thing to propose ethnic cleanising and the denounciation of Islam through the mass media and using Krsna as a justification for such fanaticism. Is a dictatorship a practical solution? Would it miraculously remove the hatred from the hearts of those who engage in violence in the name of Hinduism and Islam? And think about this:Srila Prabhupada accepted Islam as a bona-fide religious process.This is an undeniable fact. I wish you well,Abhi.But I totally disagree with your proposals for dictatorship,ethnic cleansing and vilification of Islam.I think they are simply nonsense and if India or any other country were to adopt these proposals,the result will only be more hatred and more violence. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-06-2002).] [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-06-2002).]

Abhi: Your words remind me of a certain German dictator who sent millions of Jews to the gas chambers some years ago. The solution to not ethnic cleansing and certainly not portrayal of Islam as an intolerant religion.These are demonic proposals and will merely add fuel to the already raging fire. In another post (HE LIVES FOREVER BY HIS DIVINE INSTRUCTIONS),you demonstrated an appreciation of nectar from His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.Why not try the spiritual solution that he offers for the material world --- Krsna Consciousness?

Prabhupada: So far I am personally experienced, in our childhood there were not so many problems. Now India is faced with so many problems on account of imitating Western civilization. Guest: Not simply because of the increased population? Prabhupada: There is no question of increased population. This is, I say always, this is foolishness. Guest: That's foolish? Prabhupada: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons. Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish... Prabhupada: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population. Guest: And that's because, you would say that we have the wrong... Prabhupada: No, I, I... We are believer in God. You see. So we know God is the original father. He is supplying maintenance for everyone. So there is no question of increasing population. If there is increase of population, God has enough resources to feed them. It is not the question of increasing population. But what is the question of demonic civilization. Journalist (1): Well, I was going to ask you about that, civilization. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That demonic civilization is creating problems. Not the increase of population. This is not the fact. Now, so far I have studied, that in America, in Africa, in Australia, there are so much vacant places that the present population of the world, if it is increased ten times, still there is enough food... Journalist (1): And you think there's enough food. Prabhupada: There is enough provisions. But we have made artificial divisions. "This is America." The Americans, they went from Europe, and they illegally occupied that place. Now they won't allow anyone to come there. Similarly, the Australians, they won't allow to come there. New Zealand, Africa. Why? Our philosophy: Everything belongs to God, and we are all sons of God. Everyone has got the right to live at the cost of God. This is our philosophy. Journalist (1): But the values of Western civilization have made that... Prabhupada: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..." Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible. Prabhupada: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts--everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasadam. Journalist (1): That's a very difficult doctrine for many people in civilization... Prabhupada: Because... That is civilized. That is civilization. Animal civilization is that one dog, as soon as the other dog is coming: "Yow! Yow! Yow! Why you are coming? Why you have come?" Just like here. Here, everywhere. The immigration department, "Oh, how long you will stay? Oh." So many things. Why? A human being is coming... Vedic civilization is, even one is enemy, if he comes to your home, you receive him as, so friendly that he will forget that you are his enemy. Yes. That is... Journalist (1): But it must be very difficult for you to... Prabhupada: No. It is difficult because this civilization is demons. Just like India. India welcomed everyone. But the result was they occupied. Just like your English people. They were welcome. Lord Clive was welcome, but he intrigued to occupy India. And his statue is worshiped here. Because what is his credit? He made an intrigue, illegally entered India and made occupation. That is his credit and he is worshiped. That is Western civilization. Journalist (1): That's really what I was going to ask you. You must find life difficult preaching the values of brotherhood in a society... Prabhupada: Natural brotherhood. Just like in a family, naturally, a father has got ten sons, they are brothers. But one son is intriguing how to take the whole property. That is going on. That is demonic. If every one of the father's sons thinks that "Father is one and father's property equally should be distributed." But no. One cunning son is simply intriguing how to occupy the whole estate for me. That is going on all over the world. Journalist (1): How do you stop that? Prabhupada: By Krsna consciousness. Journalist (1): By Krsna consciousness. Prabhupada: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons,then the whole solution is made. Journalist (1): Because there's no need for any one person to have any more than anybody else. Prabhupada: No. God has given everything. God has given everything, but if one party becoming demonically powerful, he occupies everything, the others suffer. Journalist (1): Yes. But the difficulty is, and that's a very optimistic view of human nature. Prabhupada: That is civilization. Journalist (1): But, no... Prabhupada: That is not optimist, that is proper civilization. Journalist (1): Some people might say, who weren't perhaps as convinced as you... Prabhupada: Some people means the demons. We are creating demons. By our education, we are creating demons. That demons, they are being frustrated; they are now becoming hippies. Yes. That is the position. Because everyone wants to enjoy. So as soon as we cannot enjoy, there is some reaction. You see? Journalist (1): He rejects. Prabhupada: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.(Conversation with journalists on August 18, 1971 in London)

Prabhupada: So far I am personally experienced, in our childhood there were not so many problems. Now India is faced with so many problems on account of imitating Western civilization. Guest: Not simply because of the increased population? Prabhupada: There is no question of increased population. This is, I say always, this is foolishness. Guest: That's foolish? Prabhupada: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons. Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish... Prabhupada: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population. Guest: And that's because, you would say that we have the wrong... Prabhupada: No, I, I... We are believer in God. You see. So we know God is the original father. He is supplying maintenance for everyone. So there is no question of increasing population. If there is increase of population, God has enough resources to feed them. It is not the question of increasing population. But what is the question of demonic civilization. Journalist (1): Well, I was going to ask you about that, civilization. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That demonic civilization is creating problems. Not the increase of population. This is not the fact. Now, so far I have studied, that in America, in Africa, in Australia, there are so much vacant places that the present population of the world, if it is increased ten times, still there is enough food... Journalist (1): And you think there's enough food. Prabhupada: There is enough provisions. But we have made artificial divisions. "This is America." The Americans, they went from Europe, and they illegally occupied that place. Now they won't allow anyone to come there. Similarly, the Australians, they won't allow to come there. New Zealand, Africa. Why? Our philosophy: Everything belongs to God, and we are all sons of God. Everyone has got the right to live at the cost of God. This is our philosophy. Journalist (1): But the values of Western civilization have made that... Prabhupada: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..." Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible. Prabhupada: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts--everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasadam. Journalist (1): That's a very difficult doctrine for many people in civilization... Prabhupada: Because... That is civilized. That is civilization. Animal civilization is that one dog, as soon as the other dog is coming: "Yow! Yow! Yow! Why you are coming? Why you have come?" Just like here. Here, everywhere. The immigration department, "Oh, how long you will stay? Oh." So many things. Why? A human being is coming... Vedic civilization is, even one is enemy, if he comes to your home, you receive him as, so friendly that he will forget that you are his enemy. Yes. That is... Journalist (1): But it must be very difficult for you to... Prabhupada: No. It is difficult because this civilization is demons. Just like India. India welcomed everyone. But the result was they occupied. Just like your English people. They were welcome. Lord Clive was welcome, but he intrigued to occupy India. And his statue is worshiped here. Because what is his credit? He made an intrigue, illegally entered India and made occupation. That is his credit and he is worshiped. That is Western civilization. Journalist (1): That's really what I was going to ask you. You must find life difficult preaching the values of brotherhood in a society... Prabhupada: Natural brotherhood. Just like in a family, naturally, a father has got ten sons, they are brothers. But one son is intriguing how to take the whole property. That is going on. That is demonic. If every one of the father's sons thinks that "Father is one and father's property equally should be distributed." But no. One cunning son is simply intriguing how to occupy the whole estate for me. That is going on all over the world. Journalist (1): How do you stop that? Prabhupada: By Krsna consciousness. Journalist (1): By Krsna consciousness. Prabhupada: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons,then the whole solution is made. Journalist (1): Because there's no need for any one person to have any more than anybody else. Prabhupada: No. God has given everything. God has given everything, but if one party becoming demonically powerful, he occupies everything, the others suffer. Journalist (1): Yes. But the difficulty is, and that's a very optimistic view of human nature. Prabhupada: That is civilization. Journalist (1): But, no... Prabhupada: That is not optimist, that is proper civilization. Journalist (1): Some people might say, who weren't perhaps as convinced as you... Prabhupada: Some people means the demons. We are creating demons. By our education, we are creating demons. That demons, they are being frustrated; they are now becoming hippies. Yes. That is the position. Because everyone wants to enjoy. So as soon as we cannot enjoy, there is some reaction. You see? Journalist (1): He rejects. Prabhupada: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.(Conversation with journalists on August 18, 1971 in London)

A devotee friend told me that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura learned English by memorizing the dictionary.

"You are asking what should your preaching work be now that you are attending the university. So the first preaching work is that yourself should become an ideal devotee. Lord Caitanya said that one should first make himself perfect and then attempt to instruct others. There is no point in telling another man to stop smoking if you yourself are smoking cigarettes." (His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Letter to Niranjana,Hyderabad, 23 April, 1974)

"You are asking what should your preaching work be now that you are attending the university. So the first preaching work is that yourself should become an ideal devotee. Lord Caitanya said that one should first make himself perfect and then attempt to instruct others. There is no point in telling another man to stop smoking if you yourself are smoking cigarettes." (His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Letter to Niranjana,Hyderabad, 23 April, 1974)

'Of course if one thinks that Bhagavad-gita and the Hare Krsna mantra are part of the Hindu system and doesn't want to accept them because of this, he can nonetheless attend the Christian church and sing there. There is no difference between this process and that process; the point is whatever process one follows, he must become God conscious. God is neither Moslem nor Hindu nor Christian--He is God. Nor are we to be considered Hindu, Moslem or Christian. These are bodily designations. We are all pure spirit, part and parcel of the Supreme. God is pavitram, pure, and we are also pure. Somehow or other, however, we have fallen into this material ocean, and as the waves toss, we suffer. Actually we have nothing to do with the tossing waves of material miseries. We must simply pray, "Krsna, please pick me up." As soon as we forget Krsna, the ocean of illusion is there, and it at once captures us. The chanting of Hare Krsna is most important in order to escape from this ocean. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is a sound (sabda) that is non-different from Krsna.' (Raja Vidya:The King of Knowledge By His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Two: Knowledge Beyond Samsara)

'Of course if one thinks that Bhagavad-gita and the Hare Krsna mantra are part of the Hindu system and doesn't want to accept them because of this, he can nonetheless attend the Christian church and sing there. There is no difference between this process and that process; the point is whatever process one follows, he must become God conscious. God is neither Moslem nor Hindu nor Christian--He is God. Nor are we to be considered Hindu, Moslem or Christian. These are bodily designations. We are all pure spirit, part and parcel of the Supreme. God is pavitram, pure, and we are also pure. Somehow or other, however, we have fallen into this material ocean, and as the waves toss, we suffer. Actually we have nothing to do with the tossing waves of material miseries. We must simply pray, "Krsna, please pick me up." As soon as we forget Krsna, the ocean of illusion is there, and it at once captures us. The chanting of Hare Krsna is most important in order to escape from this ocean. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is a sound (sabda) that is non-different from Krsna.' (Raja Vidya:The King of Knowledge By His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Two: Knowledge Beyond Samsara)

Gauracandra Prabhu: Thanks for the words of encouragement. All Glories to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura!

Thank you,Gauracandra for your explanation and I would like to extend my humble apologies to you,gHari Prabhu.I am such an idiot when it comes to computers...Please forgive me. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-02-2002).]

Thank you,Gauracandra for your explanation and I would like to extend my humble apologies to you,gHari Prabhu.I am such an idiot when it comes to computers...Please forgive me. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-02-2002).]

gHari Prabhu: That wasn't very nice,I think.I don't know how you managed to edit my post,but please refrain from doing so in the future.

gHari Prabhu: That wasn't very nice,I think.I don't know how you managed to edit my post,but please refrain from doing so in the future.

How is it that gHari is able to edit one of my posts?

How is it that gHari is able to edit one of my posts?

One difficulty that I've encountered in reading the writings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati is his use of rather high English. Take the example of the following passage from the article Organised Religion: "Sri Krsna manifest His eternal birth the pure cognitive essence of the serving soul who is located above all mundane limitations, King Kamsa is the typical aggressive empiricist, ever on the lookout for the appearance of the truth for the purpose of suppressing Him before He has time to develop. This is no exaggeration of the real connotation of the consistent empiric position. The materialist has a natural repugnance for the transcendent. He is disposed to link that faith in the incomprehensible is the parent of dogmatism and hypocrisy in the guise of religion. He is also equally under the delusion that there is no real dividing line between the material and the spiritual, he is strengthened in his delusion by the interpretation of scriptures by persons who are like-minded with himself. This includes all the lexicographic interpreters." I have to read with a concentrated mind to understand the gist of this passage,and of course I'm still far from transcendentally realizing the message of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.It seems to me that in the case of His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's writings,the English is much more accessible and can be easily understood. Please do not misunderstand that I am crtiticizing the grammer employed by the acharyas.Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura wrote his instructions in a different time, place and circumstances so naturally the grammer will be different.This difference serves to reflect the passing of the torch of Gaudiya Vaisnavaism in the medium of English from the times of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati to our present times. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-02-2002).] [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-02-2002).]

<font color="#f7f7f7"> [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 02-27-2002).] And eventually a "Hindu" Swami from Calcutta gave the British the Hare Krishna Mantra and deity worship.

<font color="#f7f7f7"> [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 02-27-2002).] And eventually a "Hindu" Swami from Calcutta gave the British the Hare Krishna Mantra and deity worship.