JRdd

(I know this post follows yours, GC, but I am not really talking to you here. It's just a general thing I keep picking up, though I have been following only the George thread and this one, since the beadbag one faded out.)

Hare Krsna, I read a lot of comments putting devotees down, and that could be why some of us are bereft of good association. There is simply not enough appreciation of devotees. Familiarity can breed contempt. And it is a large mistake to lump devotees in as one amalgamous worthless heap. Every day I have encounters with wonderful devotees, many wonderful devotees. I only wish I had more time to keep up better correspondence with them all, but the personal and public exchanges are incredible, enlightening, encouraging, so many things, that I do not expereince when say associating with blood relatives--a time when I really do feel alone (or wish I was ). Devotees are special. Are some of us so blind that we only notice the rank or title of a person--or even gender--before we will consider the value of the person? This mood is so far removed from the days when devotees appreciated each other so much, and genuinely felt humbled in each other's presence, and meant the obeisances and pranams that were constantly offered. Oh I feel warm chills just thinking about it. I feel for no one as I feel for devotees. So rahter than simply displacing emotions by appreciating only those who are far from our presence, it would do all our devotional creepers a heap of good to take off our blinkers and see what is right in front of us. I am not into this playing it cool thing, like what I saw before I joined the temple: people would saunter into the houses, hang out a while, then go, not really connecting, and always acting like they had something more important to do. But all they were doing was moving from house to house for a few minutes each. I remember thinking how shallow and unsatisfying it all seemed.

Dear Keeshori,

I am sorry you are so sad, about George Harrison and about your experiences with devotees. I will send you a maha turban piece from Lord Jagannath at New Jagannath Puri in Berkeley if you email me with your address. And I don't want anything from you. Although I too have felt used at times, I know many devotees who are not as you have experienced, and pray that you get more loving exchanges in your life. As we all could certainly use. Me not least of all.

ys, Jayaradhe dasi

(edited to remove email address)

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 12-11-2001).]

I am wary of soy products. Here is a link to an article on the dangers of soy products. I used to have bookmarked a more extensive site on it, that was originally referenced by Vaikunanath Kaviraj. But I forgot the contents so need to be re-convinced.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/soydangers.html

Having said that, my daughter likes using tofu. I used to use Creamy Original soymilk, which was more of the consistency of whole cow's milk, when I could not have any milk products at all. I still will keep a box on the shelf for emergencies. And Bocaburger Vegan Original are good tasting as far as soyburgers. But you can make soyburgers out of so many things: mashed chickpeas with grated cabbage and carrots, with spices; curd with oats and maybe beans too, and sesame seeds; basically whatever you can get to stick together in patties, and saute.

The best soymilk was what I made myself, blending the soaked beans then boiling them and straining, then add a wee bit of honey and salt. The first taste, of still-warm soymilk, is delicious.

Aren't soybeans one of the beans that are considered to be too high in protein for devotees or Brahmacaris or something?

Wonderful answer! With your dual-dynamic qualities of humbleness and deep philosophical understanding, all held within the temple of your devotion to Srila Prabhupada, you are surely getting Krsna's attention.

Krsna's Feet are so soft and tender that even the flower petals the gopis strew on the forest floor hurt Them. (Is this how it goes, folks? Does anyone have the exact quote to hand?)

ys, JR

I too welcome Stonehearted's comments. (The snide remarks being made about his character simply lend an acid flavor to this otherwise wonderful thread. No devotee likes to see another devotee insulted.)

gHari's story about the drive across Canada and the Gita triggered off a whirlpool of memories for me. I forgot that I saw the Beatles in concert at the Cow Palace. I had a crush on Paul but that changed in midteens as George's mystical side became apparent. No crush, but a deeper appreciation than some young girl mania. I did my first painting, an oil painting, of George in my high school art class, and didn't paint again for decades. But one memory as a devotee is, I just remembered today that I once decorated a big rectangular birthday cake for George, guess he was in his late thirties at the time. A devotee who was his friend, and going to visit him, asked me to do this. It was painted with colored icings. It had the Manor in the middle, and on either side, on the grass behind the Manor, stood a devotee in a sari with a beadbag, and a devotee in a hoti with a beadbag. In the sky was a banner that used the same H and B to say Hari Bol Happy Birthday George. I used to have a picture of it but lost it in some move. Anyway, I was wondering how he liked it and then about three weeks later I ran into a guest at the Manor, who was a friend of George's, who had been at his home a couple of days earlier. He had seen the cake in the foyer. He said George liked it so much he didn't want to cut it. It was fruitcake, made by one of our expert temple bakers at that time, so if they did eventually eat it, it still would have been good. It's a little story, but these little things often say a lot about a person. I remember it giving me a very pleasant perspective on George's attitude toward the devotees, and how little things, like that affectionate little thank you of a cake, meant so much to him, who seemingly had so much.

Just now I remembered a time when he was coming to the Manor and "they" (you know, the infamous "them") made all the devotees disperse first. But first there was an emergency. I had to fix one of the gargoyle faces on the mantel piece in the prasadam room in a matter of say fifteen or so minutes. I had to build up the nose, patch a couple of other things, then mix paint until it looked old and greenish stone like the rest. They wanted to show George that they were taking good care of the Manor (which really they were, over all). I can say this story in public now, with George having left.

As far as hustling devotees out of the way, it was way different years later when he arrived at the Manor for the Prabhupada Reunion Festival. Perhaps there was sufficient maturity by then. The devotees were already seated outside on the grass in the big tent/pandal, listening to stories by Gurudas, Mondakini, and many other old London temple devotees, and George just walked in casually in jeans, and sat down on the ground with everyone else. There was hardly a whimper at his arrival, devotees were so enthralled with the stories about Srila Prabhupada, and I was so glad that he was treated as simply another devotee like that.

Seems like my main devotee memories of George have to do with somehow serving him, but I have always loved serving the devotees, "big" and "small". A few months ago I gave Gurudas laminated prints of some of my paintings to give George. More recently, I sent a large handmade card that many devotees wrote their encouragements and appreciations in for George. It was really sweet, and natural. I was moved at all the devotees' expressions and descriptions of how George particularly helped them in their own spiritual journeys. This is the best exchange devotees can have with one another. Mutual inspiration and appreication. This is being siksa to each other. I hope to find out how he received the card when Gurudas gets back.

Well, this was a bit rambling, but maybe someone finds some nectar in it.

ys, Jayaradhe

Leave out your pots of sweet rice!

Originally posted by Tarun:

JRdd: if u wanna do MLM with HarinAm japa, what shape will it take?

Pyramid won't do. Elliptic Strings? Near-Sphere Beads?

As for sankIrtan MLM, that will be in mRdanga format.

Large head down? Spreading conically at first...

Only to later taper off, due to milk-overboiling:

intense eagerness => laulyam, siddhi-lAlasA.

I was kind of thinking in the shape of the sweet ball stage. Like the world.

Why do men wear out their beadbags? Do they chant more, or more forcefully, or just forcefully? Or is it like banging on a mrdanga to make up for lack of skill? Or is it something else? I don't get it. (scratch head smilie)

Originally posted by Tarun:

JRdd: if u wanna do MLM with HarinAm japa, what shape will it take?

Pyramid won't do. Elliptic Strings? Near-Sphere Beads?

As for sankIrtan MLM, that will be in mRdanga format.

Large head down? Spreading conically at first...

Only to later taper off, due to milk-overboiling:

intense eagerness => laulyam, siddhi-lAlasA.

I was kind of thinking in the shape of the sweet ball stage. Like the world.

Why do men wear out their beadbags? Do they chant more, or more forcefully, or just forcefully? Or is it like banging on a mrdanga to make up for lack of skill? Or is it something else? I don't get it. (scratch head smilie)

Here is, in Donovan's words, "the long lost verse of George". He jotted it off when they were in India and Donovan had come up with this tune that was to become The Hurdy-Gurdy Man". Donovan sings it in a perfect thick George Harrison accent:

"When the truth gets buried deep beneath a thousand years of sleep, time demands a turn-around, and once again the truth is found."

I think of George as being deep and humble and real. Oh and I would like to add to the songs listed so far: what about his contributions on the Radha Krishna Temple album. I have been listening to it all week. And I too was thinking only yesterday how his sweet guitar matches the mood of each song. Remember Om purnam adah purnam idam?

Samsara-dava nala-lida loka?

I saw him at the Manor before I left England. Actually I sat next to him in the pandal, and overheard some of his conversation with Syamasundara. It was clear he had the mood of being just one of the devotees, there to hear the stories about Srila Prabhupada and be with the other devotees. It was sweet.

I just came cracking up from the beadbag thread. Now this one is really getting nice. Especially since I found some compliment directed my way. (I love the quotes by Shab too.)

Originally posted by talasiga:

I absolutely love it when you write like this.

But fear not ! You won't find me a peering fan

at your dawn doorstep.

If I do shall I send it your way? Is it the kind one peeks coyly from behind? Or--?

(You are certain to say something that will upset me soon )

I will try. But I'm not sure I'm up to it tonight. Especially after reading that quote about Sri Caitanya and the culture of love, and the description of the village aunts. I have a similar lasting memory of the women in Vrindaban, early in the morning squatting down and sweeping the roads outside their temples or homes with those long swishy handleless brooms. Everything was always so clean. A temple town. I was thinking of art as action and now you bring up the observer's artistry. Everything--we--are tiny elements in Krsna's collage.

Jayaradhe

Well I can't find my feminist thing, but I still wouldn't mind playing a part in all this. What about MLM? Or were you just trying to trick us into spreading the Holy Names around?

Well I can't find my feminist thing, but I still wouldn't mind playing a part in all this. What about MLM? Or were you just trying to trick us into spreading the Holy Names around?

If emotions and artistry are indeed connected, then if devotees get more attuned to their emotions, through fixing their senses and intentions around the glories and glorification of the Lord, it makes sense to me that artistry would be expressed more through such people.

I wonder if it is that spiritually inclined people tend more to be artists, in the sense of being more attuned to expressing their spirituality through painting, writing, cooking, dancing, etc etc.

Or I wonder if spirituality is more APPARENT in artistry than in other forms of expression. I mean, as we know someone can be totally spiritually focused while sweeping a floor, though this would be harder for others to see than if that person was painting a picture of Krsna.

Then again, I have often wondered the same thing as you begin this thread on. A devotee is naturally artistic, be it through dressing the Deities or making an attractive feast for the Lord or writing a poem to the spiritual master or decorating the temple before a festival or building a Rath cart. Because everything about Krsna is so beautiful devotees get to tap into glorifying that beauty in some way.

Personally I have long felt and said that everyone is an artist, in some way or other. I guess then it gets down to deciding how we want to define art.

gHari's ingenius idea about doublebagging (now I'll never be able to grocery shop without remembering this one) reminds me that long ago I made very warm beadbags, I think they were either quilted (padded) or out of some really thick warm stuff, can't remember. But what I do remember is that I sewed a warm stuffed finger-glove out of the left side of them to keep the index finger warm. This is the absolute truth. And as far as GC's patenting idea, I already did that one; I also made beadbags with prepatches, inside, right at the area that men seem to wear out. My hands seem to stay still when I chant. A lot of people seem to wiggle them, sometimes furiously, sometimes not.

I am not at all inclined to wear a beadbag in public now. That started after all the scandals broke out with New Vrindaban. Clickers started gaining in popularity aroudn then. I think if I had company, other devotees with me, I would maybe feel stronger about chanting aloud and with beadbag in public. It would be better to be brave and be willing to show the world that there are normal and nice devotees too (assuming those qualities apply somewhat to me).

gHari's ingenius idea about doublebagging (now I'll never be able to grocery shop without remembering this one) reminds me that long ago I made very warm beadbags, I think they were either quilted (padded) or out of some really thick warm stuff, can't remember. But what I do remember is that I sewed a warm stuffed finger-glove out of the left side of them to keep the index finger warm. This is the absolute truth. And as far as GC's patenting idea, I already did that one; I also made beadbags with prepatches, inside, right at the area that men seem to wear out. My hands seem to stay still when I chant. A lot of people seem to wiggle them, sometimes furiously, sometimes not.

I am not at all inclined to wear a beadbag in public now. That started after all the scandals broke out with New Vrindaban. Clickers started gaining in popularity aroudn then. I think if I had company, other devotees with me, I would maybe feel stronger about chanting aloud and with beadbag in public. It would be better to be brave and be willing to show the world that there are normal and nice devotees too (assuming those qualities apply somewhat to me).

Nice thread, leyh! Last year I bought a white beadbag that had red printed Radha Krsna pictures on it, then someone sent me a beadbag their grandmother made! It was a beautiful godlenrod colour. I loved that the grandmother made this, so I gave the other one away and this is the one I use.

I have a das beadbag story, and that is that a few months after Srila Prabhupada left his physical body, I was shopping for the Deities in Oxford Circus in London, a weekly thing I did at that time. Suddenly I noticed my beadbag was gone. In a panic I ran back to the store where i thought it was, asked the clerk did I leave it there, no. Ran back to the costume jewellery store. No. Ran all over the place, working up a sweat, could not find it anywhere! I msut have run miles between all the back and forthing, retracing steps, doublechecking, looking on the sidewalks, etc.

I took the train back to the Manor very disheartened, berating myself too for having been so careless with my beads. Then I found from others that they too had recently lost their beads which Prabhupada had chanted on. I understood from this that Srila Prabhupada was always there, beads or not, and that any beads I chanted on would connect me with him. So this helped me feel more encouraged again.

In England I remember there was a craze among the women to have pretty flowered beadbags. They were usually small English type prints. Counting beads too were kind of fancy, but the best were made from maha jewellery, like pearl beads, from the Deities.

Personally, I love the ones with Jagannath embroideries. I would love to have one of those.

Nice thread, leyh! Last year I bought a white beadbag that had red printed Radha Krsna pictures on it, then someone sent me a beadbag their grandmother made! It was a beautiful godlenrod colour. I loved that the grandmother made this, so I gave the other one away and this is the one I use.

I have a das beadbag story, and that is that a few months after Srila Prabhupada left his physical body, I was shopping for the Deities in Oxford Circus in London, a weekly thing I did at that time. Suddenly I noticed my beadbag was gone. In a panic I ran back to the store where i thought it was, asked the clerk did I leave it there, no. Ran back to the costume jewellery store. No. Ran all over the place, working up a sweat, could not find it anywhere! I msut have run miles between all the back and forthing, retracing steps, doublechecking, looking on the sidewalks, etc.

I took the train back to the Manor very disheartened, berating myself too for having been so careless with my beads. Then I found from others that they too had recently lost their beads which Prabhupada had chanted on. I understood from this that Srila Prabhupada was always there, beads or not, and that any beads I chanted on would connect me with him. So this helped me feel more encouraged again.

In England I remember there was a craze among the women to have pretty flowered beadbags. They were usually small English type prints. Counting beads too were kind of fancy, but the best were made from maha jewellery, like pearl beads, from the Deities.

Personally, I love the ones with Jagannath embroideries. I would love to have one of those.

I just heard about this and came to say how wonderful and encouraging your news is, Darwin. Now I hope you will not get discouraged if you sometimes stumble. Remember how toddlers fall while they're learning to walk, and they just get up and keep trying and before you know it they can even dance!

This is so inspiring. Whenever I hear of a devotee getting such a boost I feel uplifted myself, and inspired to increase my own practices.

I was wishing you well and recently said a small prayer to Krsna. Maybe collective prayers added up, or maybe Krsna heard the prayer in your own heart.

Did you attend Govardhan Puja yesterday or did you have to work? Please tell us about it. I was too sick to make the long journey, myself, and would love to hear descriptions.

We had a full arti and offered a small feast. I stayed up late the night before sewing because I eagerly gave Krsna His new outfit a few days ago, but didn't get this one done, so He will wear it on Sunday, Srila Prabhupada's Disappearance Day.

gladly, Jayaradhe

Another way to take bitter out is to salt the slices, and let sit for about an hour. Then rinse off the salt, pat the slices dry, and fry. Prepared this way, both my daughter and I gobble it up like it is simply wonderfuls.

I would just like to add that taking it just before sleep isn't exactly like one is intending to be intoxicated; otherwise one would want to be awake. The side effects from modern drugs are horrendous and many of them permanently damaging to the organs, are especially harmful for the liver, and most are still in guinea pig stage--notice how they are continually eliminating old meds due to unforeseen side effects and coming out with new and "better" ones. Until they eliminate them too--or give them to so called third world countries, or continue fobbing them off on the unwary and uneducated public. My mother would accept anything a doctor told her to take before she'd ever consider the natural things that God so kindly put on this earth for our use.

This is so wonderful to hear this nectar about him, and to see that he is such an exemplery devotee.

I had to smile at your long face at staying at a temple where you hardly knew anyone. You seem to have no problems making friends and getting around.

Wish we could see those photos--any way to?

JR

I remember that story about the Tulasi leaf and the scale, but I don't remember it. I'm gonna try to find it.

Talasiga, Mr Das refers to homoeopathy not in a literal sense but in a poetic and spiritual sense. Homoeopathy is so vibrational anyway, each hundred thousandth dilution taking you deeper, that I think it is a great analogy.

I have another dilemma. I see that Paul is so conscious of not offending Tulasi that he places her leaves on the side of the hot milk rather than wilt her. Whether that is necessary or not I don't know. I remember we always put leaves with manjari on Krsna's milk in the temples.

Now here is my similar dilemma though. A couple of days ago I bought these great-looking organic cranberries. I really wanted some for a health reason and was so surprised to see some actually in the store, not in some bottle with sugar added. So at home my daughter was getting ready to make us a spirulina cranberry blender drink and I asked her to use honey, anticipating sourness from the berries. Now it turned out that the only honey we had was maha from when Lord Jagannath was "ill" at the Berkeley Temple before Rathayatra. She got the jar out and noticed manjari bits in it, which I had forgotten about. So what should we have done? What we did do was put it in the blender.

Great idea, the mentoring program. I think we could start with what we have now, and not wait for any more kids to get older. For example I would be willing to take someone in who wanted to explore artistry. Not only by living with someone (myself) whose whole life is art, practically, but also direct him to excellent classes at our local college, where fees are covered by the State as long as one can show California residency for at least one year.

But not only artistry. One could take advantage of the nature here and learn alot both by being in nature and also going on some of the hands on seminars put on by a local who teaches herb identification, making tinctures, eating from the wild, etc. And supplement that with a classes on say botany, ecology, etc, from the college. I love next to a river and surrounded by trees and mountains so it could be an ideal setting.

Deity worship, cooking, so many things could be done. I think it is good to expose a child to a variety, within their own inclinations or tastes or talents, and let them take time flowing into what is appealing and natural to them. I'm no business type, but they could attend courses on career research and also have a career counselor from the college as well as a great independent employment type place here that focuses on finding what you want to get into.

These are just more ideas, in addition to your computer ideas. This could really take off.

What if we somehow started a datebase of devotees, and matched mentors with students? That could be so dynamic for all involved. Maybe I could set up some website about this, or if someone else feels the urge to do so go for it. Otherwise I would be happy to work on it if there was a small core of devotees to discuss how to go about it, and give me advice, etc. What do you think, GC, or anyone?

Jayaradhe

I knew him in the early days, in Detroit, before he went to France. He got and his wife got Brahmin initiation when me and another girl got first initiation. He was a great preacher, and I don't think I ever saw him not smiling. That is how I always picture him, and that is how he looked when I saw him years later in Europe. Most of all, he gave the most ecstatic bhajans and harinam kirtans. Just an all-around nectar kind of guy.

JR