Gaurasundara

Haribol. I'll have to check out the Gospels for listed examples and for quotes, but I can remember two of them offhand. There is that famous saying from the Sermon on the Mount: 'As you sow, so shall you reap.' This is an indication of karma. About reincarnation: Jesus told his disciples that the recently-murdered John the Baptist was Elijah come again. And the very last sentence of the Old Testament (book of Malachi, I believe) says something like: "Behold! I will send you again the prophet Elijah!" I'll really have to confirm this from the Bible and if you're interested, I will do so. However these are just a few examples that spring from my mind right now.

Haridhamji, just get some job that pays well! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's all true. About 300 years after Jesus, the council of Constantinople met to resolve these issues and they decided what will be official doctrine and what will not. Examples of these things is reincarnation. There is sufficient evidence to believe that reincarnation was taught by Jesus to his disciples, karma, and so on, but all of this was deleted from the Bible. Fortunately we have a few references that slipped through the net. That's why it's very hard to take the Gospels as absolute truth, in my view. They are already starting to do the same to ISKCON.

It may be external but it is still a fact that Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish it. He is on record saying that it counts for 50% of his mission.

Gee. So a woman should follow these "rules"? Did you ever think for one moment that these "men" should be in possesion of something called 'self-control'? This is so silly. Rather there should be a rule called "don't associate with women." This is called brahmacharya.

This comment actually got me thinking about something Srila Prabhupada said. Now I would never wilfully drive a thread off-topic but I think this thread is already beyond repair regarding Hindu marriages, so please allow me to put my two cents in the slot machine. Well anyway, remember how Srila Prabhupada once gave the example of how the laws of nature will always go on no matter if no one believes in them? He also gave the example that a criminal will be arrested no matter how much he denies that the law exists, and so on.Add this to an adaptation of Karl Marx's infamous statemet and you get this: "Atheism is the opium of the people." It really is. So many people are happy to live in this illusion of atheism, yet foolishly demand "proof" of God's existence and mock those who believe in it. Yep, it's true. These people are high on opium! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Having said all that, I have nothing against atheists personally. A good number of them are friends of mine. Still, we manage to tolerate and respect each other's beliefs but we also have the right to believe in our own opinions. So this is my opinion.

Deleted my own post! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Very nice, Babhruji! I especially like the proactive tone of the final paragraph.

They come to the ISKCON temples dressed like that as well. They turn up at the temple in seriously short miniskirts: what are they thinking? And with their parents too. Once I got so digusted and I decided to discuss the possibility of introducing a dress code at the temple with a senior devotee, just like the Swaminarayana guys have. He wasn't very encouraging about it, saying that Srila Prabhupada's and Gauranga's mood is all-embracing, and if we close the door to such people then where else will they go? And that we cannot expect much from "Westerners" who do not know the soberness of Indian dress codes. When I informed him that the female that I was talking about in particular was an Indian, he had nothing to say.

How else would you be able to know if you have chanted 16 rounds or not? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

It is not 'OK' for a kanistha-adhikari, as they are in need of further training. It is 'OK' for a madhyama-adhikari, as they have been further trained and are knowledgeable in sastra. It is not 'OK' for an uttama-adhikari as they are so elevated that they do not see any 'highs' and 'lows.'

Of course 'Rama' may also refer to Balarama or Ramacandra if one fancies that particular view, but for those who are following the Gaudiya Vaisnava upasana, the Hare-Krsna mantra serves as a Radha-Krsna mantra for the purposes outlined above by Jiva Gosvami

According to verses 10, 12, 13, and 14 of Jiva Gosvami's Maha-Mantrartha-Vyakhya: 10: govardhana-darI-kuJje parirambha-vicakSaNaH | zrI-rAdhAM ramayAmAsa rAmas tena mato hariH || When Krishna, the expert embracer, makes love with Radha in the forest bowers or the caves of Govardhan, He is known as Rama. 12: ramate bhajato cetaH paramAnanda-vAridhau | atreti kathito rAmaH zyAmasundara-vigrahaH || Krishna, with His beautiful blackish form, submerges the minds of those who worship Him in an ocean of supreme bliss. Therefore He is known by the name Rama. 13: ramayaty acyutaM premNA nikuJja-vana-mandire | rAmA nigaditA rAdhA rAmo yutas tayA punaH || In a temple forest groves, Radharani brings the infallible Krishna to the pinnacle of joy with Her love. Therefore She is called RAmA. Since Krishna is always by Her side, He is known as Rama. 14: rodanair gokule dAvAnalam azayati hy asau | vizoSayati tenokto rAmo bhakta-sukhAvahaH || When Krishna heard the cries of the Vrajavasis, who were afraid of the forest fire, He quickly swallowed it up, drying their tears. By giving them joy in this way, He is known as Rama. P.S. Verse 13 serves as an explanation for why Srila Prabhupada addresses Srimati Radharani as "Mother Hara" in his explanation, for those who have been confused about this.

Depends on what type of temple it is. Most ISKCON temples are 'city' temples while a few are country temples. A temple like mine, Bhaktivedanta Manor, has a cow-protetion program going on. They use natural cow-milk to make sweets for the Deities, and they also accept donations of commercial milk. I guess that the commercial milk is used in cooking "ordinary" prasadam while the natural milk is used for the Deities sweets and food. Bhaktivedanta Manor has recently started a fundraising initiative to build a unique centre for cow protection that will be based at the Manor itself. It involves building an entirely new goshalla that will be open for visitors to see how cows are looked after. Have a look: http://www.krishnatemple.com/activities/cowprotection2.shtm

I don't know about Madhav, but I haven't conquered lust yet. I hope to do so, as the means of doing so is by constantly meditating on the love affairs of Radha and Krsna, as per all the previous quotes.

Hello Kailasa, long time no see. Anyway, yes I know the quote is from Prabhupada, since I was quoting "Teachings of Lord Caitanya" chapter 31. However, I didn't see any basis for acting like a "sahajiya" in the quote. Srila Prabhupada is quite clear in saying that one must always meditate on the affairs of Radha and Krsna, as well as following their mood. What is your point exactly, since we seem to agree?

I thought Vaishnavas did not have a need to perform sraddha ceremonies. Please elaborate on this if you can. Don't worry about a late reply, I'll gladly wait.

If it helps in any way, I hope that one day I can feel what you feel. You are an inspiration!

I guess I'm a masochist to hear it again anyway. That all depends on how far you are prepared to go. Let's just say that what you predict comes true. Vaishnavas start to engage in politics (rajkaran) and ultimately they take control of the government and they end up running the country (India?) in a proper and authorised Krishna Consciousness way. Let's say this all happens. Now what? Many posters have told you that Srila Prabhupada himself disapproved of the label of "Hindu" and went to great lengths to describe Krishna Consciouness as a non-sectarian philosophy, and so on. When your ultimate ambition of a Vedic government is achieved, will you be ready to give up your fancy ideas and accept Srila Prabhupada's words for what they are, instead of assuming he is just a diplomat?

Haribol Haridhamji, you have to use the "Quote" tags. For example: (Quote)Gaurasundara prabhu, when you reply to someone's post how do you get it to say In reply to when you are replying to someone, just curious(/quote) If you replace the brackets with the [ and ] signs, you will get this: Remember the slash '/' sign. This closes the tag. Haribol!

Ha ha. Seriously though, I know what you're talking about as I've been there many times. It seems to be hard for young people to interact with their peers when their belief systems are so obviously polarized. Some of the young devotees I know in UK face this same problem. Some of them have got initiated as well, I supose they've made up their mind to follow a devotional life and so they will follow devotional principles. That would necessarily entail giving up asat-sanga, so in effect they shouldn't really be having these probelms. The problem comes when someone tries to preach, I think that's where the difficulty comes in. If two people are so polarized, how can they interact? Times like these, we really need the mercy of Gauranga and Nityananda!

INNIT! Cha' man, try and educate dem enuff so dey can appreciate dey culture, aight? Brown is where it's really at, aight? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

"One should also always meditate upon the affairs between Radha and Krsna in the transcendental world. One should think of Radha and Krsna twenty-four hours a day and eternally engage in Their service.. By following the mood of the associates and friends of Radharani, one can ultimately achieve the perfectional stage and be transferred to Goloka Vrndavana, the transcendental abode of Krsna." - Teachings of Lord Caitanya, chap. 31

Would you be kind enough to let me know how I can get in touch with these disciples, especially by email?

You know, one fundamental question that arises every time this topic comes up always needs to be addressed: What is the origin of this idea that one must be free of "mundane desires, sensuality" and so forth before one can apreciate the rasa-filled topics of Krishna and the Gopis? Consider this: vikrIDitaM vraja-vadhUbhir idaM ca viSNoH | zraddhAnvito yaH zRNuyAd atha varNayed vA || bhaktiM parAM bhagavati parilabhya kAmaM | hRd-rogam Azv apahinoty acireNa dhIraH || (Bhag. 10.33.39) "Anyone who faithfully hears or describes the Lord's playful affairs with the young gopis of Vrndavana will attain the Lord's pure devotional service. Thus he will quickly become sober and conquer lust, the disease of the heart." Trying to believe that one must be free of desires before one hears rasa-katha is a bit like saying a person must wait to take a medicine for a disease until the disease is cured? Why not acknowledge the disease and take the medicine to cure it? After all, the Acharyas have advised us to take this medicine.