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suryaz

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Posts posted by suryaz

  1. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by bhaktashab:

    [suryaz, you shouldn't have insulted me just because I disagreed with you.

     

     

    “you shouldn't have insulted me”

     

    That was not my intention – please forgive my lack of clarity.

     

    According to Krsna in the BG the material energy is his “divine energy”. I just think far too often some delegate it as something “other”. He calls it His “divine energy” and we should respect it as that.

     

     

  5. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by bhaktashab:

    Hydrogen Atoms?

    Can you explain yourself a bit better there?

     

     

    "Protium is better known as hydrogen, which is made up of one proton and one encircling electron. Hydrogen, in evolutionary physics, is the atomic emergent: the primal chemical entity. Subsequent elements created by the natural fusion process are thereby derived from hydrogen. H2 is the molecular emergent."

     

     

    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_edu/ser_post-sciedu.html

     

    This need not necessarily contradict with creation theorists –

     

    It may just be another way of looking at creation

     

     

  6. Posted · Report reply

    His view is that we must surrender ourselves to God, and through His grace, temptation (which is that which redirects our attention away from God) can be conquered. Gauracandra

     

    I know what choice is - but - Temptation?

    What is it?

     

    Is it not something born of personal deception – the shifting of the blame/inadequacies/human frailty etc onto another to justify/deny such?

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-29-2001).]

  10. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by suryaz:

    "Madhav Patnaik's 'Vaishnava Leelamrita'. we find the earliest reference to the death of Chaitanya since it was written in the year 1525 A.D"

     

    Humm 1525 AD??

     

    Most record Mahaprabhu's earthly display as 1486-1532 AD

     

     

     

     

    Also my bad memory - This should have read

     

    Most record Mahaprabhu's earthly display as 1486-1533 AD

     

    However in Ling (1968) "A history of religion east and west" the recorded appearance date is 1485. Posted Image

     

     

  11. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jijaji:

    In Madhav Patnaik's 'Vaishnava Leelamrita'. we find the earliest reference to the death of Chaitanya since it was written in the year 1525 A.D., much before Lochan das and Jayananda. Madhav writes that " while dancing in kirtan procession on the evening of Rukmini amabasya (Vaisakha amabasya), his left toe was pierced by a piece of brick lying on the road

    "Madhav Patnaik's 'Vaishnava Leelamrita'. we find the earliest reference to the death of Chaitanya since it was written in the year 1525 A.D"

     

    Humm 1525 AD??

     

    Most record Mahaprabhu's earthly display as 1486-1532 AD

     

     

     

  12. Posted · Report reply

    When I was last in Puri (1986), I came across a temple wherein there was a deity of Krsna who had a crack in his foot. The pujari told me that Mahapraabhu merged into this deity, through the crack in the foot of the deity, at the time of his disappearance. I wonder if this is a sublimation of the account given in the "Vaishnava Leelamrita” (Madhav Patnaik) manuscript.

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-22-2001).]

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-22-2001).]

  18. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

     

    You are taking the indologist's definition of Aryan (which refers to a race), and then trying to put it in the mouth of Srila Prabhupada.

     

     

    Yes you are right Jndas - Prabhupada makes reference to both "Aryan-family" members (eg fair skinned people) and those who become Aryan by cultural conditioning.

     

    It is also interesting to note what he mentions about other races as well – all of whom can become “first-class” cultural members “with the proper training” even if they do not have the shastricly defined “skin” colour (eg brahamanas). The examples are as follows:

     

     

    TEXT

     

    kaka-krsno 'tihrasvango

    hrasva-bahur maha-hanuh

    hrasva-pan nimna-nasagro

    raktaksas tamra-murdhajah

     

    TRANSLATION

     

    This person born from King Vena's thighs was named Bahuka, and his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.

     

    TEXT 45

     

    TEXT

     

    tam tu te 'vanatam dinam

    kim karomiti vadinam

    nisidety abruvams tata

    sa nisadas tato 'bhavat

     

    TRANSLATION

     

    He was very submissive and meek, and immediately after his birth he bowed down and inquired, "Sirs, what shall I do?" The great sages replied, "Please sit down [nisida]." Thus Nisada, the father of the Naisada race, was born.

     

    PURPORT

     

    It is said in the sastras that the head of the body represents the brahmanas, the arms represent the ksatriyas, the abdomen represents the vaisyas, and the legs, beginning with the thighs, represent the sudras. The sudras are sometimes called black, or krsna. The brahmanas are called sukla, or white, and the ksatriyas and the vaisyas are a mixture of black and white. However, those who are extraordinarily white are said to have skin produced out of white leprosy. It may be concluded that white or a golden hue is the color of the higher caste, and black is the complexion of the sudras.

     

    TEXT 46

     

    TEXT

     

    tasya vamsyas tu naisada

    giri-kanana-gocarah

    yenaharaj jayamano

    vena-kalmasam ulbanam

     

    TRANSLATION

     

    After his [Nisada's] birth, he immediately took charge of all the resultant actions of King Vena's sinful activities. As such, this Naisada class are always engaged in sinful activities like stealing, plundering and hunting. Consequently they are only allowed to live in the hills and forests.

     

    PURPORT

     

    The Naisadas are not allowed to live in cities and towns because they are sinful by nature. As such, their bodies are very ugly, and their occupations are also sinful. We should, however, know that even these sinful men (who are sometimes called Kiratas) can be delivered from their sinful condition to the topmost Vaisnava platform by the mercy of a pure devotee. Engagement in the transcendental loving devotional service of the Lord can make anyone, however sinful he may be, fit to return home, back to Godhead. One has only to become free from all contamination by the process of devotional service. In this way everyone can become fit to return home, back to Godhead. This is confirmed by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gita (9.32):

     

    mam hi partha vyapasritya

    ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah

    striyo vaisyas tatha sudras

    te 'pi yanti param gatim

     

    "O son of Prtha, those who take shelter of Me, though they be of lower birth--women, vaisyas [merchants], as well as sudras [workers]--can approach the supreme destination."

    Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the Fourth Canto, Fourteenth Chapter, of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, entitled "The Story of King Vena."

     

     

     

  20. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Janus:

    "What is PBS?"

     

    Ah, that is better. Submissive and relevant inquiry.

     

     

    Janus

     

    What makes you believe "relevant inquiry" is "better" when a "submissive" component is present?

     

    What is wrong with impartial, reasonable, unbiased and/or objective relevant inquiry?

     

    Why promote as “better” a behaviour that when promoted functions to, and/or leaves room for the dis-empowerment of another.

     

     

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-20-2001).]

  21. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

    Bhaktivinoda Thakur wrote several books targeted specifically at the british educated Indian, in which he makes statements which contradict traditional teachings. For example he says that the Srimad Bhagavatam was written 1,000 years ago by a brahmana in South India (i.e. it was never authored by Vyasa), that Krishna, Shiva and other Devas where nothing but tribal kings of the past, that there is no such thing as hellish planets, that the Aryan's invaded india, etc. His purpose was to not waste time debating what the British Indologists had implanted in the minds of the educated Indians, but to just bring them to the point of devotion by speaking a language they understood.

    Jndas, what makes you so sure Bhaktivinoda's aim was this?

     

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-20-2001).]

  22. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

    According to Srila Prabhupada, the world "Arya" refers to those who followed the Vedic teachings. By comparing them against Dravidians you are comparing apples and oranges. Dravidians who followed the Vedic culture were also Aryans.

    According to Prabhupada whites are Aryans. I was sitting no more than 2 metres away from him when he said it.

     

    According to Bhaktivinoda “the Aryans first entered India from the North West and subjugated the indigenous tribes around 4463 B.C. ..." (Shukavac).

     

    So what of the Dravidians? What of the following Padma Puranic view

     

    “…Padma Puraa.na points to a southern origin for bhakti, and provides a clue to the geographical location of some Puraa.nic traditions as well” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11).

    “ ‘Bhakti was born in Draavidha, grew up in Kar.naataka, became worn out in MaharaaS.tra and Gurjera, sought refuge with her two sons Knowledge and Dispassion in Vrindavana, and regained her vigor there… Enough of vows, sacred fords, disciples, sacrifices, discourse about knowledge, faith alone bestows release!(Padma 6.189.51; 190.22)’” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11).

     

     

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-19-2001).]

  23. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Gauracandra:

    Absolutely no way can Kashmir be part of India. If it is, the Pakistanis won't support the U.S. in getting Osama Bin Laden out of Afganisthan Posted Image

     

    Actually I'm thinking the United States is actually India... there were so many Indians living here until Christopher Columbus showed up.... Hey maybe ole Chris Columbus was the Aryan Invasion... the spaniards and such.... Stop the presses, I've now figured it all out Posted Image

    Europeans called all brown skinned peoples Indians. The term did not identify a nationality. In fact when the word Indians was first used this way, the French revolution had not happened and nationalism did not exist. As such South American as with North American natives were described as Indian. Australian Aboriginals etc. etc. were initially described as Indians.

     

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-19-2001).]

  24. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by jndas:

    If you would read Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavatam commentaries, he makes it clear how the westerners are descendents or Aryans. They are descendents of kings who fled from India.

     

    Srila Prabhupada does not accept the Aryan invasion theory, and none of our ancient texts speak of such a thing.

    So Jndas is it your premise that the landmass that is today called "India" originally belonged to the whites, Ooops - the Aryans?

    If so what of the Dravidians? How, why and when did they arrive in “India”?

     

    But remember:

     

    “…Padma Puraa.na points to a southern origin for bhakti, and provides a clue to the geographical location of some Puraa.nic traditions as well” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11).

    “ ‘Bhakti was born in Draavidha, grew up in Kar.naataka, became worn out in MaharaaS.tra and Gurjera, sought refuge with her two sons Knowledge and Dispassion in Vrindavana, and regained her vigor there… Enough of vows, sacred fords, disciples, sacrifices, discourse about knowledge, faith alone bestows release!(Padma 6.189.51; 190.22)’” (Demmitt & van Buitenen 1978:11).

     

     

     

    [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-19-2001).]

  25. Posted · Report reply

    Originally posted by Gauracandra:

    Where is India?

     

    Are we talking about the pre-1947 India ruled by the British? Or the post-1947 India? Does it include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Pakistan? or maybe it is the 13th century India of hindu kingdoms? or the India based on the Act of 1858? or maybe the india of 5000 BC? Or maybe there is no India, but only the land of Bharata?

     

    India, India where are you?

    No there is no "India" as such pre 1947. There was the land mass but it was not technically call “India” although it was in short often referred to as India. What we call India today, that was part of a bunch of British colonies on the Indian or Asian - sub-continent for a while. Before that it was a landmass of separate Hindu kingdoms until the Muslims came

     

    Yes you are right Gaurachandra,

     

    - in the Bhagavat it is referred to a Bharat-vas

     

     

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