Kulapavana

persons obtaining salvation (or liberation) can enter the Brahman effulgence (Brahmajyoti), Vaikuntha planets (where Lord Vishnu resides in His innumerable forms) or Goloka Vrindavan. "ordinary salvation" usually means entering the Brahmajyoti (also known as nirvana)

"Hmmmm My guru included? Wondering what that means"

No great mystery implied. We serve Krishna under our guru's direction both here and on the "other side". Most true disciples have great sentiment and affection for their guru, and that relationship certainly continues.

When you read stories about Krishna in Vrindavan a window is opened to the spiritual sky. Krishna's associates have also relationships among themselves, centering on Krishna of course.

I would not worry too much about the "risk of entanglement and getting too attached to persons other than Krishna, therfore having to take birth again". Such risk certainly is there, but we have much bigger problem. Our greatest problem is attachment to ourselves. I see many outwardly "unattached" devotees who are so severely self absorbed their "attachment" to Krishna seems dubious to me.

But this is just my own observation and oppinion. That is also not arguing, just adding to your points /images/graemlins/smile.gif

yes, meat eaters can be saved by chanting the MAHA MANTRA but ALL fallen living entities must be purified before entering Goloka. Otherwise they would not be able to fit in. Goloka is a very special place. Ordinary salvation has little in common with entering Goloka Vrindavan /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as I know there was no "gay" problem in our movement until they (GALVA) started it. Over the years there were plenty of homosexuals in our movement, often in very high positions. GALVAS claims of "mistreatment" of gay members are bogus or greatly exagerrated at best. There is no doubt in my mind that their agenda has nothing to do with what is best for our Movement. If you are fallen just be humble and serve Krishna, dont try to invent some theory to justify your fallen state!!!

the legacy of Christianity is much more than the sins of those who used it for their own wicked reasons. pity you can't see that. it would appear to me that even Srila Prabhupada recognized Christianity as one of the valid spiritual traditions of the world.

*sigh* ...oh no! not another crusader! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

there is definitely some spiritual potency in Christian tradition. I doubt such potency was there if it was all just based on a Roman hoax.

one of those born again... and again... and again... Christians! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

these are interesting quotes, but most of them can be interpreted in a benign way. if Jesus was indeed all for the old (Torah) ways, Jews would not have him crucified.

It happened in Poland when it was still a communist country and we were preaching "underground". I just picked up a load of illegaly printed paperback books (Isopanishad and part of First Canto) and was on my way to the temple when a police officer stopped us for a minor traffic violation. There was another devotee in the van with me and he almost fainted, mumbling: "We are dead!". I put on my best poker face and talked to the officer, appologizing for my error (improper lane change). He noticed the books so I gave him one, explaining we were from the Polish-Indian Friendship Society (it was a legitimate organization which, of course, we had nothing to do with). He seemed to like the book so I told him to keep it. To our relief not only he did not arrest us but did not even give us a ticket! Talking about Yogamaya in action! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Source: http://news.independent.co.uk

Published: October 16, 2003 Author: By Andrew Gumbel

It's weird enough to think of Prince, the epitome of 1980s funky cool, as a Jehovah's Witness. Weirder still, though, to have him doorstep you and then proselytise.

That was what happened to a Minnesota woman, identifying herself as Rochelle. As she recounted to the Minneapolis Star Tribune: "Door bell rings. My husband runs upstairs and says, 'Prince is at the door!' I said, 'No way.'" The diminutive pop star introduced himself as Prince Nelson, his real name, and, she said, launched into the standard "Jesus-loves-you" routine.

Unfortunately for him, Rochelle and her husband are Jewish and this was the night of Yom Kippur. She told Prince and his companion: "You've walked into a Jewish household. This is not something I'm interested in." But Prince was undeterred, staying for about 25 minutes and leaving a pamphlet.

Prince announced his conversion to the Jehovah's Witnesses two years ago. He subsequently released an album, The Rainbow Children, with overt sermonising.

Rochelle told her interviewer she didn't dislike her encounter with him. "There's no reason to slam him," she said. "He didn't do anything wrong; he was very kind."

These are good points Pritaa prabhu. It is nice to think in idealistic terms, but the reality around us is very different. However, one important point needs to be made: even in the spiritual world the living entity can have emotional relationship with persons other than Krishna, certainly your guru included. Various pure forms of love for other living entities do not diminish your ability to love Krishna. I would dare to say that perhaps the opposite is true: if you cant love your closest family, chances are you cant love Krishna either, as you are in love with yourself.

If he is sincere in his desire to understand, you may be able to convince him, otherwise he will close his eyes to the best arguments. The evidence of past lives/reincarnation is there, but it is indirect. Actually, such evidence (just like the evidence for the existence of God) has to be indirect, to allow living entities a freedom of choice. Here are some interesting links:

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/

or

http://www.childpastlives.org/stevenson.htm

turns out it was not a meteor at all, but most likely a contrail (jet fuel condensation trail) from a passing Concorde

when I was a kid I used to cheat on buses by not buying the ticket and risking getting caught. Some 25 years later I'm still having bad dreams about riding without a ticket and getting caught! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

my comment regarding chastity was general, not just about devotee women. chastity does not automaticaly give you Krishna.

as to who is more chaste, or that women are automatically chaste, or what is the cause of home wrecking - that is all besides the point.

the age difference does not determine worldliness or godliness of a marriage. in vedic marriage system men are usually somewhat older than women (has to do with several factors, emotional maturity included /images/graemlins/wink.gif

too much age difference can be a problem these days, as this usually reflects a significant difference in mentality between husband and wife.

Many Christian sects reject Old Testament writings entirely, as they are rightly seen as barbaric and primitive: both in their concept of God and moral message. Jesus of Nazareth could not openly reject Judaism in his teachings as this would bring him certain death by stoning. The history of early Christianity is very revealing and everybody attracted to this tradition should study it in order to deepen their understanding.

He seems to be honest. Krishna consciousness is not a 100 meter dash - it's a marathon. maybe he is going pretty slow right now, but HE IS STILL IN THE RACE! Hari bol! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

many Hindus have anti-Muslim sentiments. are such sentiments baseless and irrational? think about it for a second... it has broad implications.

Theist Prabhu Ki Jai! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

have you tried the Bhaktivedanta Institute search?

It is part of the ancient vedic idea of female chastity. when practiced correctly, this process gives a woman tremendous power, not just over her husband, but mystical as well. Vedas give many examples of such exceptionally chaste women and their power (just read the story of Tulasi devi)

yes Pritha, many times the temple authorities would pressure devotees to do service. such pressure should be done in a delicate way as to avoid leaving bad taste in person doing the service, but pressure is often unavoidable, as most people are quite lazy by nature. I have been a manager practically all my adult life, both inside our movement and in the outside business world. Good (and willing) help is hard to find. I have gotten better at engaging people in service, but remember the verse: "manda sumanda bhaga.."? it is true! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

yes, it is pretty gross, no argument here, but in certain cases it might be helpful, that's why it is part of the vedic knowledge