Narasingh

or a blade of grass under His Foot

That's paradoxical, brother, but I'll try not to be so abrasive. In hindsight, I came off pretty "off-the-top". I'm for neither of them either, and yet I wish the best for both of them. I think that statements like,

"My view is that the British bankers and the Israelis that are in control of the Us Government and using it for war profiteering and exploitation are basically the same as the pharisees and now are crucifying Jesus again and trying to crucify the world as well."

are uncalled for and not only relinquish the personal responsibilities of all those involved in war profiteering, but place the full burden on a select few. You obviously targeted Israelis and British Bankers as being in control of the US Government. I don't think I misunderstood that. I don't think shifting the burden of proof to me helps this subject any. I am not the one making a claim that Jews and Brits are in control of US. Last I checked George W. Bush was the president (2 terms!) and it is he that has the right to declare war. I'm sure there are Brits, Israelites, Americans, Saudis, and Palestinians who profit off of war. Call a spade a spade, it isn't just a Jew and a Brit who spill blood. And what about the "rapture and second coming" point I made. Why does it have to be a Jew who has interest in Israel. What about the East Gate in Jerusalem and the Christian interests there? I think your isolation of "Israelites" is unfair, and please don't think I am targeting you. It was just your statement. I'm sorry I made you uncomfortable. I'll try to not repeat that. Cheers!

Gradually, (through the mercy of Hari, Guru, Vaishnava and Nama) you'll be more concerned with what Krsna wants

Or you can give us the link?

I'm not sure it's online. I can assure you, I'm not a "bot"

 

Narasingh, this is a nice quote. It seems like it's from a lecture by Srila Prabhupada (or book?). Do know the date and where the full transcript can be found?

 

Yes, it is from a lecture. Mayapur Feb 11, 1976. If you'd like I can send you the transcript I have

 

There is no differnce. Do you think you rasa body is composed of anything other that krishna bhakti?

Rasa can be developed and matured. Take Gopa Kumara of Brhad Bhagavatamrta for instance. He attained the stages of mahabhagavata and beyond. He entered lila, first with Narayana, then with Krsna till he found himself fulfilled as a cowherd boy. At that point it was as if he was always with Krsna. So when I said there is a difference between a gold nugget and gold jewelry, that they are not one, it is in this context. We nityabaddha jivas are golden but in a raw state. It isn't until we are smelted by Prema and tempered with Saranagati do we achieve our beauty. It is a process of offering and sacrifice. With no work, no sacrifice is complete.

 

Prabhupada did not teach that your final spritual body and bhakti are synonyms. To revisit what Prabhupada said regarding Nitya Siddha note especially what he said regarding Prahlad Maharaj in the 3rd quote. If you are in Maha Maya, you are definitely not nitya siddha Bhakta although you may have nitya siddha bhakti in a dormant state:

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

The krishna-bhakti, our love for Krishna, is there eternally. But on account of our contamination with this material world, we have forgotten our relationship.

 

There is a verse in the Caitanya-caritamrita: nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya. Krishna-bhakti, your devotion for Krishna, your attachment for Krishna, is there because you are part and parcel of Krishna.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Just like sex impulse. It doesn’t require to, how to awaken sex impulse, natural; similarly, krishna-bhakti is our natural inheritance because we are part and parcel of Krishna, or sons of Krishna.

 

So Prahlada Maharaja he is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means there are living entities, every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna, so one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down. Just like in this material world there are millions and millions of living entities, but they have fallen down. But there are multi-millions and millions of living entities in the vaikuntha-loka, they never fall down. They are called nitya-siddha. They never come here.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

Krishna-bhakti, Krishna consciousness, is in everyone’s heart, dormant. Every living entity. Because every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna. Just like a father and son, there is natural affection; it is not artificial. Even there is misunderstanding between father and the son, and if they meet at a time after many years’ misunderstanding, immediately the affection of father and son will act, immediately. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Krishna, our affection for Krishna and Krishna’s affection for us is eternal. Krishna is more anxious to reclaim us from this miserable condition of life than we are, because we are sons of Krishna. Sarva-yonishu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayah yah [bg. 14.4]. He is the father of all living entities. We are part and parcel. Therefore Krishna is very anxious. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrita kar says,

anadi bahir mukha jiva krishna bhuli gela

ataeva krishna veda purana karila

Just to remind us. Not only he has given us Vedas and Puranas to remind us that “Your position is different than you are thinking. You are thinking that you are a material product. That is illusion. Aham brahmasmi. You are brahma-vastu. You are part and parcel of Brahman...” Therefore there are so many literatures—vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [bg. 15.15]—just to draw your attention to come to Krishna. Just to draw your attention, that “You are My part and parcel. You are My eternal son. Why you are rotting in this miserable condition of life, janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi?”

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

Why did Krishna create misery and suffering in the first place?

 

Even after you attain Krishna, the pain and misery in the world will still persist as before. Infants will starve to death in Africa, civilians will be slaughtered daily in the Congo and kids will be kidnapped and blinded to send them out to beg in Mumbai (a la slumdog millionaire).

 

So for you to be blissful with Krishna, Krishna should erase all these memories from you and make you think (wrongly) that there is no pain and suffering in the world and keep you in ignorance. Or he should alter your genetic makeup to remove the compassion gene - that makes you feel for someone else's pain. If that happens, they you can be in bliss with no regard for the continued suffering on planet earth.

 

Advaita offers a better solution as duality ends , really ending suffering in its true sense ( Not endorsing Advaita, for all the Mayavada bashers out there).

 

If I were a theist, I would be angered at a God for creating an unfair world, with the troubles in Congo, Iraq and countless other places. Especially more so, when you hear some idiots claiming this is all a "sport". I would tell them to stop speaking nonsense unless they are willing to get blinded and beg on the streets for the rest of their lives - all as part of the "sport". Or alternatively, we can take this sport angle seriously if the starving people of the world are also willing to call their suffering a sport. As an atheist, it is relatively easier to deal with the situation as there is no source and therefore no one to blame.

 

Cheers

All things are created for a purpose. If there were no sorrow, would you know joy? Erase sorrow and you will erase its coefficient--joy.

What kind of guru would you like?

Where would you leave from. What sort of visa would India grant to you?

Where in India would you like to go?

Nice, Theist

It is not all one

There is a difference. You can't wear a gold nugget, it has to take shape in the form of jewelry. Nevertheless it is still gold.

He is talking about Krsna bhakti being nitya siddha. Not your form

Nice

There are folks here that are very knowledgeable. Try there.

http://help.berberber.com/forum100/16088-translation-required-please.html

 

That is the way I see it as well. Many people are distracted from the real quality and value of these books by such controversial remarks. Still, like you said, many if not most of his followers insist that they are justified and valid. They still propose to build a 'Vedic Planetarium' where the Sun is closer to the Earth than Moon simply because 'Prabhupada said so'.

 

The books of Narayana Maharaja or Sridhara Maharaja do not seem to generate such emotions in readers. They may not be into the subject matter of these books, but at least they are not turned off by such controversial remarks.

I have to wonder if it is the nature of the books or the nature of the person reading them though (as Suchandra has stated). We have to consider that most Westerners who have embraced Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati's, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakure's, Srila Sridhara Maharaja's, Srila Narayana Maharaja's or Srila Tirtha Maharaja's or Srila Puri Maharaja's .... books and teachings have had some formal association with at least the books of Srila Prabhupada in the past. Sadly, there is a proportionate few who cling to the word and not the gist and somehow those are the ones who provide the lack of fulfillment for others.

Try copy and paste... its much less grueling. You can sip chamomile tea and copy and paste

 

Because this is Sarva gattah's purport:

 

It may factually seem to be in line with Srila Prabhupada's words but it may in fact be over-reaching or imply something that goes beyond Prabhupada's own words.

 

If you want to see the context of what Prabhupada said regarding Nitya Siddha look at this:

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

The krishna-bhakti, our love for Krishna, is there eternally. But on account of our contamination with this material world, we have forgotten our relationship.

 

There is a verse in the Caitanya-caritamrita: nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya. Krishna-bhakti, your devotion for Krishna, your attachment for Krishna, is there because you are part and parcel of Krishna.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Just like sex impulse. It doesn’t require to, how to awaken sex impulse, natural; similarly, krishna-bhakti is our natural inheritance because we are part and parcel of Krishna, or sons of Krishna.

 

So Prahlada Maharaja he is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means there are living entities, every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna, so one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down. Just like in this material world there are millions and millions of living entities, but they have fallen down. But there are multi-millions and millions of living entities in the vaikuntha-loka, they never fall down. They are called nitya-siddha. They never come here.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

Krishna-bhakti, Krishna consciousness, is in everyone’s heart, dormant. Every living entity. Because every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna. Just like a father and son, there is natural affection; it is not artificial. Even there is misunderstanding between father and the son, and if they meet at a time after many years’ misunderstanding, immediately the affection of father and son will act, immediately. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Krishna, our affection for Krishna and Krishna’s affection for us is eternal. Krishna is more anxious to reclaim us from this miserable condition of life than we are, because we are sons of Krishna. Sarva-yonishu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayah yah [bg. 14.4]. He is the father of all living entities. We are part and parcel. Therefore Krishna is very anxious. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrita kar says,

anadi bahir mukha jiva krishna bhuli gela

ataeva krishna veda purana karila

Just to remind us. Not only he has given us Vedas and Puranas to remind us that “Your position is different than you are thinking. You are thinking that you are a material product. That is illusion. Aham brahmasmi. You are brahma-vastu. You are part and parcel of Brahman...” Therefore there are so many literatures—vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [bg. 15.15]—just to draw your attention to come to Krishna. Just to draw your attention, that “You are My part and parcel. You are My eternal son. Why you are rotting in this miserable condition of life, janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi?”

Hari Bol!

Prabhupada said:

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

The krishna-bhakti, our love for Krishna, is there eternally. But on account of our contamination with this material world, we have forgotten our relationship.

 

There is a verse in the Caitanya-caritamrita: nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya. Krishna-bhakti, your devotion for Krishna, your attachment for Krishna, is there because you are part and parcel of Krishna.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Just like sex impulse. It doesn’t require to, how to awaken sex impulse, natural; similarly, krishna-bhakti is our natural inheritance because we are part and parcel of Krishna, or sons of Krishna.

 

So Prahlada Maharaja he is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means there are living entities, every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna, so one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down. Just like in this material world there are millions and millions of living entities, but they have fallen down. But there are multi-millions and millions of living entities in the vaikuntha-loka, they never fall down. They are called nitya-siddha. They never come here.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

Krishna-bhakti, Krishna consciousness, is in everyone’s heart, dormant. Every living entity. Because every living entity is part and parcel of Krishna. Just like a father and son, there is natural affection; it is not artificial. Even there is misunderstanding between father and the son, and if they meet at a time after many years’ misunderstanding, immediately the affection of father and son will act, immediately. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Krishna, our affection for Krishna and Krishna’s affection for us is eternal. Krishna is more anxious to reclaim us from this miserable condition of life than we are, because we are sons of Krishna. Sarva-yonishu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayah yah [bg. 14.4]. He is the father of all living entities. We are part and parcel. Therefore Krishna is very anxious. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrita kar says,

anadi bahir mukha jiva krishna bhuli gela

ataeva krishna veda purana karila

Just to remind us. Not only he has given us Vedas and Puranas to remind us that “Your position is different than you are thinking. You are thinking that you are a material product. That is illusion. Aham brahmasmi. You are brahma-vastu. You are part and parcel of Brahman...” Therefore there are so many literatures—vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [bg. 15.15]—just to draw your attention to come to Krishna. Just to draw your attention, that “You are My part and parcel. You are My eternal son. Why you are rotting in this miserable condition of life, janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi?”

Beggar, that was hilarious . The responses by Sarvah indicate no retention or dynamic understanding. (I don't know if this is true regarding Sarvah, its just what the response indicates.) They are disproportionately long and therefore difficult to pay attention to. They offer no contextual relation and thus, can easily be misinterpreted. Given their disproportionate length, I'd wager:eek3: that most persons glaze over them. If Sarvah wants to be more efficient in his preaching, he might want to try to be a little more dynamic.

Theist is right on this. Violence against a weaker person is unbecoming unless the weaker person is malicious. Violence is something necessitated in self-defense. Used offensively, it is just that, offensive. If the father is not defending his life from his wife and daughter (unlikely) perhaps he should leave the home, as a home where there is no peace is not a home at all. Follow Theist's advice and contact the authorities.

 

I have an old friend who is a German-Jew. He told me that Israel had to do all this stuff to defend itself. After listening to Alex Jones for the last year and doing a lot of reading I have come to the conclusion that levels of the Israeli government have basically been in control of America for many years. I have nothing against the Israeli people as I am sure they have plenty of good people.

 

I have come to the view that America was originally founded on the ideals of Jesus or at least that was the notion and obviously in regards to the Native Americans that turned out to be bullshit but I know Native Americans that are now fighting to get America back to its ideals and the constitution. My view is that the British bankers and the Israelis that are in control of the Us Government and using it for war profiteering and exploitation are basically the same as the pharisees and now are crucifying Jesus again and trying to crucify the world as well. It looks to me like America will never be free until we get out of everyone elses problems and do not let foreign operatives infiltrate our government.

 

I feel bad for my German-Jew friend as he is mostly a good person but his vision on this is clouded by various reasons in my opinion.

So it is only British bankers and Israelis who are war profiteering? Wouldn't the fact that America was founded on Christian ideals (which promote the belief in the second coming and rapture) serve as American impetus to manipulate the issues of the middle east? It is the Christian goal to see Jesus on the Cross since that is their only chance of redemption and salvation. This whole statement stinks of racism and Lutherism. This idea of singling out Israel is full-on anti-semite philosophy. Buddy, you might do well to not listen to Alex Jones for the next year. The Abrahemic religions seem to be the disfunctional variable. Let us also not forget what the pledge of the leading party of Gaza is. At this point, both sides are obviously operating under the "Kill, or be Killed" philosophy. Perhaps you can do a little research to the source of the conflict. http://dancutlermedicalart.com/AlbertEinstein%27sZionism/01EinsteinBeforeZionism.htm

And we've seen what the course of Gaza's actions are when they don't get what they want. End of cease fire then Rockets Red Glare, Bombs Bursting in Air....what to do

 

Srila Prabhupada:"So you may question, “What you are? What is your position?” Our... My position is that, that under the supreme order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in disciplic succession, I am just trying to preach this Krsna-katha. That’s all. I am not manufacturing anything. Don’t think that I have manufactured something new, Krsna consciousness. No. That is not my business. My business is just like the peon. The orderly. The message from Caitanya Mahaprabhu as it is, I am delivering. That’s all. And it is being effected because I am not adulterating in the Krsna-katha. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam vraja; [bg. 18.66] I also say the same thing, that “You become a devotee of Krsna. You surrender to Krsna.” So there is no doubt that I am really representing the interests of Krsna because I am not adulterating. I am not misinterpreting the words of Krsna. And it is being effective."

There are numerous places where Srila Prabhupada is offering a particular view of falling from Krsna Consciousness and then there are others who are elaborating upon his position. Previously, there was a quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati (Prabhupada's Prabhupada) which provided a neutral canvas to these theories. However, as one analyzes the teachings which are contemporarily offered regarding the jiva's fall, in relation to the teachings of the purva acharyas, one will notice many inconsistencies (as RamanaDasi along with others have shown). I understand one's faith in Srila Prabhupada can be intense and that they are willing to surrender to him with or without the full backing of the parampara. This is admirable, yet, not a provision granted to us by Srila Prabhupada. The best way to serve is to remain chaste to the flow of knowledge and show how and where one's Guru was not starting something new but continuing the same pure message.