RamanaDasi

Sri Adi Sankara Bhagavatapada wrote in his bhasya to Nrsimha-purva-tapani Upanisad:

mukta api lilaya vigraham kritva bhagavantam bhajanta

Even the unembodied mukta will make a form (vigraham kritva) so he can be with the Lord in his pastimes and do worship of Bhagavan (bhagavantam bhajanta)

Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaja went to Iraq in 1918 to earn money to pay out all the bills and debts of the Gaudiya Matha. In the first few years of the Gaudiya Matha there were no other donors contributing to the Mission, so Tirtha Maharaja (then Kunja Babu) took it upon himself to pay all of the bills so that Saraswati Thakura would not be disturbed by any financial problems. He wanted Saraswati Thakura to be free of all concerns about debts, and to continue preaching in Kolkata.

At that time, when Kunja Da was in Iraq, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura wrote in a letter to Tirtha Maharaja:

"I am Nayanamani Manjari and you are Bimala Manjari, my eternal companion. Please come back here and resume your service because I cannot happily continue my service to Radharani on my own, living without you".

This letter is kept at Chaitanya Math in Mayapura.

How does Stephen Knapp know Srila Prabhupada is a Manjari?

Srila Prabhupada never said "I am a Manjari" or "I am a Gopi" did he?

Mental speculation... That is what Prabhupada calls this sort of thing.

It is very true indeed,just as Vrndavan is nondifferent from the SUpreme Lord so also the lord's parikar is non diffrent from Him.I have heard That Srila Prabhupada is Ananga Manjari herself.

You pple should broadcast this fact to others...Many "followers" of other sampradyas doubt ISKCON's line of succession.

 

 

haribol.

OK I am one of those people who doubt ISKCON's line of succession (but I don't doubt His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada's line of succession (he is a perfect follower of a perfect Guru in a perfectly authentic Guru Parampara)).

A gang of ritviks set themselves up as "saksadharitvena ’samasta sastrair" and claimed to be divine, while secretly most (if not all) of them were breaking the regulative principles that Srila Prabhupada taught to be the very foundation of spiritual life.

ranjeetmore you claim Srila Prabhupda is Ananga Manjari but who told you that?

What evidence is there that this is true? Is this recorded in tapes or written in the books of Srila Prabhupada? You say ppl should broadcast this fact but will this kind of broadcasting do anything positive to fix the mess Iskcon is in right now? You say many "followers" of other sampradyas doubt ISKCON's line of succession. Yes it is right for other sampradayas such as the Srivaisnavas to doubt that a gay man or a drug addict or an ecclesiastical guru or a money-hungry (business)man can be a Guru and be considered a bona fide representative of the disciplic succession.

 

 

Before acquiring material designations

he is not engaged in serving the Supreme Lord

...

 

he remains in the neutral position of santa-rasa

due to his marginal nature

 

 

 

Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses.

My reading of things is that we are not placed in the material world rather we CHOOSE to enter the material world.

Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur:

Before acquiring material designations, the living entity is supremely pure. Even though he is not engaged in serving the Supreme Lord, he remains situated in the neutral position of santa-rasa due to his marginal nature. Though the living entity born from the marginal potency does not at that time exhibit a taste for serving the Lord due to a lack of knowledge of self-realization, his direct propensity of serving the Supreme Lord nevertheless remains within him in a dormant state. Though the indirect propensity of material enjoyment, which is contrary to the service of the Lord, is not found in him at that time, indifference to the service of Hari and the seed of material enjoyment, which follows that state of indifference, are nevertheless present within him.

The living entity, who belongs to the marginal potency, cannot remain indifferent forever by subduing both devotional and non-devotional propensities. He therefore contemplates unconstitutional activities from his marginal position. As a sleeping person dreams that he is active in the physical world without actually being involved in activities, when the dormant indifferent living entity of the marginal potency exhibits even a little apathy to the service of the Supreme Lord and situates himself in a neutral, unchanging condition for even a little time, he is infected by impersonalism. That is why the conditioned soul desires to merge in the impersonal Brahman, thus exhibiting his mind's fickle nature. But due to neglecting the eternal service of the Lord and thereby developing the quality of aversion to the Lord, he cannot remain fixed in that position. In this way aversion to the Lord breaks his concentration of mind and establishes him as the master of this world of enjoyment.

Indifference to the Lord's service, and indifference to the material world, are features of souls absorbed in the atma-jyoti. When a soul is in brahma-nirvana they do not have any desires at all and exist in a timeless state of perfect peace.

From that position, a soul may DESIRE to enter the world. It was because of our free choice that we came out of the Oneness of Brahma-Nirvana and entered the material world.

Kathopanishad, Chapter 3

9 A man who has discrimination for his charioteer, who holds the reins of the mind firmly, reaches the end of the road. He arrives at last at the supreme goal (parama padam), the place of Vishnu.

COMMENTARY

10 Beyond the senses are the objects the senses know and experience. Beyond these objects is the mind that comprehends them. Beyond the mind is the faculty of intellect and knowledge. Beyond the intellect is the individual self (jiva atma).

11 Beyond the individual jiva self there is Maya (the Unmanifest, the Mahat Tattva). Maya is superior to the jiva soul in that Maya has the power to overwhelm and entangle a jiva soul in the complexities of life within nature. But beyond Maya is the eternal Person known as the Purusha, the Higher Self. Beyond the Purusha there is nothing higher. He is the culmination. He is the highest goal of the journey.

COMMENTARY

The issue being discussed here really isn't that difficult to understand

Just read the final Pada in Vedanta Sutra translation that is linked at the start of this thread.

Then study the commentaries of Sri Ramanujacharya and, if you are brave enough, Sri Adi Shankaracharya Bhagavatapada

The main point is simple. When you get liberated you realize that your soul is a ray of light shining from Visnu.

A soul can have no form or manifest a spiritual form and enter Goloka to render service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as is stated in Vedanta sutra 4.4.12

Bhaktajan have you read Vedanta sutra?

 

You don't seem to understand the discussion here.

 

 

 

I will be so bold to say [for this discussion so far] I know what the Vedanta Sutra Says! I really do [for all practical purposes].

 

I am examining You.

 

Are you of the opinion that the "Conclusion of the Vedas" is that the goal of Yoga is impersonal brahman?

 

If so, you have not read my comments--nor esp. have you referred to my statements which I've re-stated here.

 

................................................................

Please don't begrude me the opportunity to "look for a perfect example of a translator's foolishness"

No I do not think the "Conclusion of the Vedas" is that the goal of Yoga is impersonal brahman

I believe that to enter Goloka a servant of the servants of the Gopis is the highest goal

Bhaktajan have you read Vedanta sutra?

You don't seem to understand the discussion here.

I suggest you go to the web site listed above, where you can read the translation of Vedanta by Bhakti Caitanya Swami of Iskcon, and carefully study Vedanta, especially Pada 4.4 (the last section) before making further comments.

Sri Brhadbhagavatamrtama describes the state of "oneness" with the Lord (sarupya mukti) which the four Kumaras exhibit:

The Kumara boy is speaking, he says:

 

103-5 Pure love, which is the goal to be attained by other spiritual practices, which is the best of the best of all goals of life, which is the only powerful way to bring the Supreme Lord under one's dominion, which is only attained by the Lord's mercy, which is the only treasure of the devotees, which is flooded with the sweetness of wonderful transcendental bliss, which is glorious beyond description, and which manifests the transformations of ecstasy, arises from the actions of the mind.

 

106-7 If you think meditation is difficult for the mind, or if you wish to see the Lord and thus make your eyes fruitful, then go to Bharata-varsa and on Gandha-madana Mountain see Lord Narayana, the friend of Nara.

 

108 Fixed in meditation, we see Him within and without. Therefore we never suffer separation from Him. That is why the Lord has gone there.

 

Srila Sanatana Gosvami explains that someone may ask: "Why do the sages such as Sanak and Sanatana stay in Tapoloka if the Lord is not present? Someone may also ask: "How can the Lord who loves His devotees, leave that place and go somewhere else?" The answer is given in this verse. The Lord, they see, is all pervading, existing in all places simultaneously.

 

109 As a very austere brahmacari archery-teacher with matter locks of hair, he stays there to benefit the world with His teachings.

 

110 Seeing that I wished to go there, the four sages headed by Sanaka said to me: "Go there!" Then they showed me many forms of the all pervading Lord.

 

111 The first one became Lord Narayana. Another became the form of Vishnu. Another became the Lord of sacrifices. Another assumed many different forms.

Srila Sanatana Gosvami explains in his commentary that the first one was perhaps Sanaka, or perhaps another of the Kumaras. The form of Lord Vishnu here was either Lord Upendra, whom Gopa-kumara had seen in Svargaloka or perhaps it was a form like His. The Lord of sacrifices is the Deity worshipped on Maharloka. The forms of Lord Nrsimha and Lord Vamana were among the many different forms.

112 Trembling with fear and bowing down, with folded hands I said to Them: "O Lords who love the poor, please forgive my horrible offenses."

 

113 They touched me on the head and I entered a trance of meditation and saw those forms again as before. Sometimes, by the power of meditation, I still see those forms as if They were right before my eyes.

 

No Vaishnava like Srila Vyasadeva would ever say that it is desireable, worthwhile to attain the brahmajyoti. Rather he says that a liberated soul attains the quality of brahman, same what Krsna also says when using the term brahma-bhutah. This doesn't mean that a devotees enters the brahmajyoti but attains the pure quality of the soul what is brahman.

What scriptural basis do you base what you say upon?

There are many atmaramas who delight in the rays of bliss shining from the form of Narayana.

Sanak, Sanatana Kumara and other sages such as Adi Shankaracharya delight in the bliss of brahman and see Vasudeva within Brahman.

Krsna describes liberation in Brahman in the gita, and many sages have followed his description and attained liberation in Brahman.

Bhagavad-Gita, chapter 7, verse 19:

bahunam janmanam ante jnanavam mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabah

Baladeva, commenting on the sutra, says the soul attaining liberation attains the "atma"

The translator has translated this word atma as "supreme personality of Godhead"

If I was ever to look for a perfect example of a translator's foolishness, this would be it.

Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

Now another topic will be considered.

Samshaya (doubt): When the liberated soul attains the effulgent Supreme in the spiritual world, is the liberation salokya (residing on the same planet) or sayujya (meeting with the Lord)?

Purvapaksha (the opponent speaks): As a person entering a king's capitol resides in the same city as the king but does not attain a private audience with the king, so the liberated soul resides on the same planet with the Lord. Therefore the soul attains salohya liberation

Siddhanta (conclusion): In the following words the author of the sutras gives His conclusion.

Sutra 4

avibhagena drishtatvat

avibhagena—without separation; drishtatvat—because of being seen.

There is no separation, for that is seen.

Purport by Shrila Baladeva Vidyabhushana

The liberated soul is not separated from the Lord. In this way the soul attains sayujya liberation. Why is that? The sutra explains, "drishtatvat" (for that is seen). This means, "for this situation is seen in the Shruti-shastra". For example, in Mundaka Upanishad (3.2.8) it is said:

yatha nadyah syandamanah samudre

astam gacchanti nama-rupe vihaya

yatha vidvan nama-rupad vimuktah

parat param purusham upaiti divyam

"As flowing rivers abandon their names and forms and meet with the sea, so the enlightened soul, free of what had been his name and form, meets with the effulgent Supreme Person."

There it is. Vyasa says it in the sutra, and Baladeva confirms it in his commentary.

The liberated soul attains sayujya mukti, his original state of being, which is like when a river (re)enters the sea.

Sri Adi Shankaracharya Bhagavatpada wrote:<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

saty api bhedapagame natha tavaham na mamakinas tvam

samudro hi tarangah kva ca na samudras tarangah

“My Lord, even when all difference is gone, I am Yours, though You are not mine. A wave belongs to the ocean, but surely the ocean does not belong to the wave”.

(Prarthana-satpadi 3)

Indeed, some souls awaken from the Light of Brahman and, like the Four Kumaras, they venture to approach Vaikuntha where they can see the personal form of Sri Visnu.

To see Visnu, you need some eyes and face. So the souls manifest a soul-body.

Sri Adi Shankaracharya Bhagavatapada:

mukta api lilaya vigraham krtva bhagavantam bhajante

Translation:

Bhagavan is so attractive that muktas (liberated siddha souls), desiring to enter into the lila of Bhagavan, will make (krtva) a spiritual form of themself so they can do Bhagavat bhajan (worship of Bhagavan).

That the soul can create a spiritual body for himself is confirmed in Vedanta Sutra 4.4.11

Sutra 4.4.11 commentary by Baladeva:

 

Chandogya Upanishad (7.26.2) it is said that the liberated soul can manifest many different bodies simultaneously:

 

sa ekadha bhavati dvidha tridha bhavati pancadha saptadha navadha caiva punash caikadasha smritah. shatam ca dasha caikash ca sahasrani ca vimshatih.

 

"He becomes one. Then he becomes two. Then three. Then five. Then seven. Then nine. Then eleven. He becomes one hundred and ten. He becomes one thousand and twenty."

 

Because the individual spirit soul is atomic in nature, it cannot expand itself to become many different bodies, so these bodies must be possessions of the atomic soul. Nor can it be said that this statement of the Upanishad is not true, for this is in a passage describing the process of liberation. The body described here must actually exist, and also it must not have been created by past karmic reactions. This will be explained later with a quote from the Smriti-shastra.

 

Thus, a liberated soul such as Tulasi devi or Narada can exist simultaneously in Vrndavana and Dvaraka and Svetadvipa, because the siddha-soul has the ability to manifest many forms.

David

Isn't this translation you have presented the translation done by Bhakti Caitanya Swami of Iskcon?

I note that word for word it is almost exactly the same as his translation.

In Pada 4.4.1 you have this in the commentary:

The liberated soul manifests his original form. Why is that? The sūtra explains, pratijñānāt: “Because of the statement.” The original condition of the soul is described in Chāndogya Upaniṣad [8.7.1]. After that description, the following promise is given [8.9.3]:

etaṁ tv eva te bhūyo ‘nuvyākhyāsyāmi

“Again I will explain it to you.”

The the demigod Brahmā proceeded to explain that the liberated soul is free from wakefulness, dreaming, and dreamless sleep, the three conditions of material consciousness and also free from the material body, which is created by the karmic reactions of pleasant and unpleasant deeds. The demigod Brahmā described this in order to fulfill the promise he made in 8.9.3. Because this passage explains that the soul becomes liberated when he is free from the external material body created by karmic reactions, it should be understood that in the liberated state the soul is manifested in its original form.

In this way it is proved that Chāndogya Upaniṣad [8.12.3] explains that in the liberated state the soul manifests its original form. Now another point will be considered.

Saṁśaya [doubt]: Does the word jyotiḥ in Chāndogya Upaniṣad [8.12.3] refer to the sun-globe or to the Supreme Personality of Godhead?

Pūrvapakṣa [the opponent speaks]: It refers to the sun-globe. This must be so for the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad declares that after passing through the realm of the sun one attains liberation. The sun-globe is also described in that way in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad’s description of the path beginning with light.

Siddhānta [conclusion]: In the following words the author of the sūtras gives His conclusion.

 

 

In Vedanta Sutra 4.4.1-4.4.9, Badarayana (Vyasa) is saying that when a soul gets liberated they attain the jyoti, and that the jyoti is their original form. However Iskcon people, notably Bhakti Caitanya Swami the translator, do not like to present that. I suppose it is against the official policy of Iskcon to say that a soul is a spark of brahma-jyoti, so in the translation there is some word-jugglery and some words of Iskcon-speak that are presented, instead of putting forward the actual words of Baladeva Vidyabhusana.

Then again, the issue is raised whether a liberated soul enters the sun-globe (deva-loka) or the transcendental Brahman.

The author of the sutras Badarayana states that there is some dispute about whether that Chhandogya verse 8.1.5 is referring to the sun (surya-loka) or the Brahmajyoti ("the supreme personality of Godhead") as the ultimate state of existence. In view of the current context, that is, in view of the preceding sutra, it is clear Badarayana is talking about how all souls attain the jyoti when they are liberated -- but Iskcon people must have this statement translated as attaining the Supreme Personality of Godhead because they think it is impersonalism to say that the self is a spark of the light of Brahman. The Iskcon devotees do not easily accept that the sutras say a soul attains the im-personal form of God. This seems to me to be their sectarian reading of the sutras - they don't accept the Vedanta Sutra "As It Is". The sutra 4.4.3 itself says you attain the brahma-jyoti and experience sayujya-mukti. Bhagavan is realized in three phases: Brahman, paramatma and Bhagavan. This sutra says that when we get liberated we return to our original form - we return to the Brahman effulgence that glows from the form of Bhagavan Sri Visnu.

Indeed there is no anomaly in saying that when a person get liberated they realize their original form (brahma-jyoti). This does not logically lead to impersonalism since in sutra 4.4.4 (the following sutra) it states that a soul getting liberated attains sayujya-mukti and become united (in a state of yoga) with Visnu. Sutra 4.4.9 says a liberated soul is a servant of Visnu so there is no question of saying it that sayujya-mukti is "impersonalism", rather, for a jiva soul the attainment of sayujya-mukti is simply the attainment of perfect yoga (unity) with the Master, Sri Visnu.

Sripad Yati Maharaj of Chaitanya Math has written in his translation of Vedanta Sutra 4.4.9:

A freed-soul does not depend on anybody else except the Supreme Master (God), thus is our conclusion.

 

It is unfortunate that Iskcon leaders and translators continue to misunderstand and mis-translate the statements of the Veda, since they are unwilling to acknowledge that the soul is brahman and that the soul in his pure state is a spark of brahma-jyoti. Iskcon people are obsessed with the misconceived idea that souls were in Goloka in personal forms before they "fell down into Maya" but this sutra 4.4.1 specifically states that the soul was originally a brahma-jyoti spark of the Supreme Brahman

Shankaracharya himself was a Vaisnava and he clearly understood that the soul is dependent on Bhagavan. Impersonalism means that a soul thinks "I am God" but Shankaracharya actually preached "I belong to God".

Sri Adi Shankaracharya Bhagavatpada wrote:

saty api bhedapagame natha tavaham na mamakinas tvam

samudro hi tarangah kva ca na samudras tarangah

“My Lord, even when all difference is gone, I am Yours, though You are not mine. A wave belongs to the ocean, but surely the ocean does not belong to the wave”.

(Prarthana-satpadi 3)

Doesn’t monism lead to the logical conclusion that I am nothing? If god is the origin of everything and everything is one, then everything is god. Thus I am nothing.

 

regards

No.

The old philosophy of the Yogis that mankind, animals, birds, fishes, trees, earth, rocks, and elements are one is a theory gradually becoming accepted within science. There is no reason to think life cannot arise from nature. Science says the physical universe composed of galaxies of stars formed from wave-particles which arose in the aftermath of the Big Bang; correspondingly, the Yoga philosophy says this universe filled with atoms and planets arose from a singularity and moreover that when the universe eventually runs out of energy and ceases to exist there will be future universes that come into being (then also collapse within the original singularity they emerged from). According to the Veda, there are other universes existing right now complete with suns, moons and worlds where life is evolving in a similar way to what we see in the world around us.

Like this, when I go to sleep at night and enter deep sleep I also detach from my physical life, my family and job, and enter a state where "I" merge with the essence I was within before I ever knew about this physical life. And just as crystals grow with definite forms and shapes, each with their own viśeṣa (particularity), when the life energy of "me" awakens then my energy goes out and reshapes my surroundings. According to the particular (viśeṣa) qualities that are inherent to me, I act upon things in the world and change the world. And make karma. If I want to, I can follow the practices of Buddhism and train my mind so that it loses the desire to wake up from the singularity of the "no mind" state. I can train my mind so I lose the desire to do karma and experience duality. Or alternatively, I can seek the association of Vaisnavas who can help me enter that beautiful harmony of oneness where every thing is perfectly united in a unity of love - the place that in the Gopalatapani Upanishad is described as the diamond lotus of Goloka.

Sri Krsna said to Uddhav:

Gold remains gold both before and after it ornaments are made from it. Gold gets given different names such as ring and necklace but it is always gold. Similarly the Reality, the Cause of Existence, is the same before and after worldly objects get given their various names. The one undivided Reality is eternally existing but souls with limited knowledge are mistakenly imagining the One has become divided into many things.

It is sad that people kill animals but it is even sadder to think that so-called religious people are following scriptures that say children should be killed if they are naughty.

In Krsna Book, Srila Prabhupada wrote:

"The Krsna consciousness movement is a call to all kinds of religionists asking them with great authority to join this movement by which one can learn how to love God and thus surpass all formulas and formalities of scriptural injunction. A person who cannot overcome the jurisdiction of stereotyped religious principles is compared to an animal chained up by his master. The purpose of all religion is to understand God and develop one's dormant love of Godhead. If one simply sticks to the religious formulas and formalities and does not become elevated to the position of love of God, he is considered to be a chained animal."

In the old testament it says that if your children are disobedient then you can take them to the gates of your town and stone them to death. Kill them.

It is hard to believe that anyone would quote the Old Testament as a text advocating ahimsa.

HeeHee is right to say the statements of the Vedas are not facts.

The statements of sages in the Vedas are things you can grasp only through faith and devotion. You will never understand the Veda if you cling to the empirical, analytical method as your preferred method of gaining knowledge.

But HeeHee, you should realize that the Vedas are different from knowledge you can get in this world, such as scientific knowledge about uranium atoms. Only through association of saints, and through devotedly following the saint's teachings, can a follower realize knowledge of the Veda. In the Kathopanishad the god Yama tells a student that only when Knowledge of Visnu is communicated to you by your Guru, the Divinely-Realized Saint, only then when it comes to you as a Gift of Grace will you be able to realize the proper understanding of Visnu "As He Is".

Before real realization of Visnu comes, you only have a vague concept of Visnu; a concept clouded by the haze of your erroneous thinking. Your misconceptions and your prejudices block you from seeing reality. In Sanskrit, this haze is called chit-abhasa, and the way this haze functions is that it is like an hallucination that you choose to focus on, instead of blinking and waking up to see things as they really are.

We can get a hazy idea of Visnu from books and meditation, but only when Lord Visnu reveals Himself in your heart will you realize him "As He Is". People who have no inner realization will argue about the meaning of statements made by by-gone sages, and argue about the meaning of words in the scriptures, but it is all wild-goose-chasing. Look inside and find the real Truth, before you start talking or pretending to be a great KNOWER of Truth. The bizarre reality of modern day Vaisnavism is that there are clueless people everywhere (especially on the internet) who have no DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of Krishna, who are trying to convince other people (and especially ignorant people) to agree with their mistaken, clueless conclusions about Krishna.

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura wrote that the words in the scriptures are all words spoken by people. But these people who spoke the words of the Vedas are not ordinary people who squabble about religion. The Veda-Rishis who spoke the Veda are inspired people who are awake to the Everlasting Reality of Param-Brahman.

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura says the words of the Vedas express the thoughts of sages who had received a spritual revelation of Truth (darshan) from the Abolute Being. Sages such as Visvamitra heard the Vedas during their meditation, and thus it was that Visvamitra was the first person in this world to pronounce the gayatri mantra "om bhu bhuvah svah tat savituh varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi" etc....

From Visvamitra and other Rishis the knowlege of the Veda has come down to us through various Guru Parampara successions. There are Parampara's following the teachings of Tulsidas, Valmiki and Sri Ramayana, Parampara's coming from Sri Adi Sankarachaya Bhagavatapada, and many different Parampara branches coming from Sri Caitanya. Among all of these groups following ancient traditions, where are the people who actually KNOW Lord Narayana? That is the real thing to find out! Those people who KNOW can give you darshan of Lakshmi Narayana - if you can find them! But I will give you a word of caution: Don't expect to find those people here at Audarya Forums because if you do you will be making a big mistake.

At the same time, you don't need to have faith or bhakti to realize brahma-nirvana since every one of us is Brahman anyhow; it is a relatively simple thing to realize your own self but realizing the transcendental Supreme Self, the Param-Brahman Sri Krishna, can only be achieved through faith and devotion and service to an enlightened Guru sent to you by Krishna.

The Buddhist sages who communicated Buddha's teachings to the people of India also transmitted a kind of faith. And in the Gita, Sri Krishna says that according to a person's faith and understanding they accept different belief systems as "Truth" and then follow the precepts of that belief system.

Believe what you want to believe, and go where you want to go.