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Saraba Iyar

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  1. But ARJ's the point is still valied. Threre is nothing that Mike Malasysia quotes -Krishna being the one god and the like - to be found anywhere in Vedas. And Bhrama didnot write Vedas. Saraba Iyar.
  2. I looked at it very carefully. In fact I am very familior with this Vaiosnavite's argument. The argument is falacious. Please do look at my post of 33 gods. There are no more gods in Vedas in a genune sense. There cannot be by the vedic cosmology and theology. Every name that appear latter has to be understood as attribute names of these thirty three deities - that is the rule. Words Narayana , Vishnu, Vasudeva and the like refer to attributes of god- any god - and does not refer to a different god. Vasu deva means the god of the wealth (of the universe) . Narayana means Nara + Ayana = Water like in moving , that is in itself no form but taking all possible forms. All these are attributes of the devine and can be applied to any deities. For example you may be aware Ganesha is also addressed as Vishnu in his mantra 'Suklam Barataram Vishnum sasivarnam ..." The word 'Narayana' is an attribute and not a separtate divinity apart from the 33 prime vadic gods. It is puranas that made independ gpod out of the attribute words. The word Narayana nowhere in Veda refer to a blue person with conch shell and wheel lying in a snake bed in a milk sea in a special place called Vaikunda. This Narayana you cannot find anywhere in Vedas. This is all in all a puranic concept. What can be found are a varieties of arrtibute names of the same 33 deities. Saraba Iyar.
  3. I am pained to see people are misrepresenting Veda. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> I have posted this material before; else where I will agai post it with the hope to clear the muisconception of “Vedic Gods”. <o:p> </o:p> I belong to the family of Hotr priests of Rg Veda. My father and my elder breather are Hotr priests. I am trained in Rg Veda in the traditional style of reciting entire Rg Veda. I know each and every line of Rg Veda by heart. I am also trained in the Bhashya – traditional interpretation - of the Vedas. Though I am trained to be competent to become a Hotr priest, I did not become a priest. My elder brother became a Hotr priest. (I am introducing myself to make a point I know what I am talking about. i dont talk things which I am not sure of. ) <o:p> </o:p> In Vedic system, Hotr priest is the priest of Rg Veda and the only one qualified to invoke devas as only Rg mantras are meant for invoking devatas. . Yajur Vedic mantras are meant for giving offerings to the devas invoked by Rg Veda and Sama Veda mantras are meant for singing the praise of the gods invoked by Rg veda mantras. Thus as to the matter of gods are concerned, Rig Veda is the complete and final authority, since other Vedas perform a supplementary role to Rg Veda. No other gods that is not mentioned in Rg Veda could be invoked. <o:p> </o:p> There are only thirty three gods in rig Veda. There cannot be more because the number 33 is sacrosanct and has a tight logic. Divinities in Vedic system have esoteric connotation to the consonants of the Sanskrit alphabets. Gods are those letters. And there are only 33 consonants in Vedic Sanskrit. (From ‘Ka’ to ‘Ha’ are 33). “Te Trayastrimsadakshare Bhavath. Tryastrimsadhuo devah.” – Aitreya brahmana (1, 10)<o:p></o:p> This tight association between devas and letters makes the gods limited to 33 and there cannot any more. Hence any additional gods mentioned in other later Vedas or Puranas (there are 33crores of gods in puranas) are to be understood as names or aspects of the original 33. If this is not the case those new gods cannot be technically invoked, from Vedic point of view. Hence there are only 33 gods in Vedas. <o:p> </o:p> And Who are these 33 Vedic Gods ? Asta Vasu (8), Ekladasa Rudra (11), Duadasa Aditya (12). Prajapati , Vasad or sometime Indra. And their names are given below. <o:p> </o:p> Eight Vasus: Agni, Jadaveda, Sahoja, Ajara, Vaisvanara, Naryapa, Panktiradha and Visarpi. <o:p> </o:p> Leven Rudras: Prabhrajamana, Vyavadata, Vasuki, Rajata, Parusha, Syama, Kapila, Atilohita, Urdhva, Avapatanta And Vaidyuta. <o:p> </o:p> The twelve Sun gods: Twastr, Savitr, Bhaga, Surya, Pushan, Vishnu, Vaisvanara, Varuna, Kesi, Vrshakapi, Yama, Aja-Ekapat. <o:p> </o:p> These are the Vedic gods. Note that Vishnu is just one of the names of Sun god in Vedic system. Most of our present modern day Hindu gods are not at all Vedic. We have denigrated many of these Vedic gods and promoted new gods. What is atrocious is that peple justify their very non-Vedic gods as Original Vedic gods. <o:p> </o:p> As a Hindu, I have no problem in recognizing these new gods and even worshipping them. But what Pains me is the ignorant and even purposeful distortion of the Vedic religion to justify the new entities and practices. There is no need to argue that Vishnu is a Vedic god. Nothing is lost if Vaishnavas Accept that Vishnu is of Puranic origin. Is Behaved Geeta not is good enough? Why bring in Veda for support of a new religion? <o:p> </o:p> I hope people will stop talking about Vedas, with out a first hand study of it and use it incorrectly for supporting their wrong views. I have seen it repetedly in this Aurarya discussion groups, at many occasions in different places.I am writing this not with any animosity with Vaishnava religion or any other ( Puranic or modern) Hindu religious faction for that matter. It pains to see that Veda is not represented properly and is misused by Hindus themselves. I request humbly that care should be taken to represent Vedic System accurately and truthfully. <o:p> </o:p> Saraba Iyar
  4. This is false information. Vedas do not say ant thing like that. In fact Vishnu is not a vedic god at all. Veda Recognises only thirty three gods and Vishnu is not there in the vlist. There is a name Vishnu mentioned but that is actually tone of the twelve names of Aditya Sun god. I have posted this information before but people dont seems to accept the truth and continue to probagate false views about veda. I have no problem with Vishnu bhaktas but I have problem with perverting of the truth of Prinstine Vedas. Saraba Iyar
  5. Vishnavas give emphasis to puranas because Vishnu and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> are puranic creations. There is no mention of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> in veda and the name Vishnu in Veda refer to Sun god. It is one of the twelve aspects of Sun. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> Of matters of Devadas, Rg Veda is the supreme and final authority. Only by Rg Veda mantras devadas could be invoked. Yajur Veda mantras are used to give offerings to the gods invoked by Rg Veda and Sama Veda mantras are used to praise the devada invoked by Rg veda. Hence, all other gods mentioned in subsequently in Yajur and Sama are just different names of Rg Vedic Gods. <o:p> </o:p> In Rg Veda Gods are thirty three. They are, Asta Vasu (8 Vasues ) Ekadasa Rudra (11 Rudras) and Duadasa Aditya (12 Adityas ) Prajapati and Indra. Note that there is no <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> or Rama or any of the modem day gods for that matter. A name called Vishnu exists but is actually one of the names of Aditya. <o:p> </o:p> These thirty three gods are a final and fixed list and there can be no more gods as per Vedic system the reason is that Vedic Divinities are intimately linked with the Sanskrit consonants. And the consonants are 33 in number ( Ka to Ha are 33) . <o:p> </o:p> Puranas created new gods and promoted them above the Vedic gods and demoted original Vedic gods some to demigod status, some to non entity worthy of any worship. If you are a <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bakta , then to justify your belief you need Purana and Itihasda. <o:p> </o:p> Saraba Iyar.
  6. People talk through their hats on Vedic truths. Neither Narayana is a Vedic god nor non- monism the Vedic Doctrine. These are inventions of lesser mortals. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> I come from a family of Hotr priests. Hotr is a master of Rg Veda and qualified to invoke deities. My father is a Hotr priest and my elder brother is a Hotr priest. Though I myself have not become a priest I am trained in Rig Veda.. Original Vadic Gods <o:p></o:p> Only Rg veda mantra has the power to invite or invoke deities. Other Vedas are for subsequent sublimentary purposes. For example the Adhvaryu priest trained in Yajur Veda by the Yajur Veda mantras, offers oblations in to fire to the deity invoked by the Hotr. The master of Sama Veda sings the praise of the deity invoked by the Hotr . The Bhrama priest trained in Adharva Veda is the overall supervisor of the yajna. There is a continuity of Rg, Yajur and Sama Vedas and unity amoung them. What devas are invoked by Rg is offered Oblation by Yajur and is praised by song of Sama. <o:p></o:p> Thus Rg Veda becomes the most important and sole authority on maters concerning gods. Hence it is the only authentic source regarding Gods. Classification and details of gods are to consulted only on Rg Veda. All other gods refered in Vedas are all different names or aspects of this original 33 deities. Puranas count the gods as thirty three crores, Rg veda count is only thirty three. <o:p></o:p> Pramana: : Rg veda 1,139,11; 1,34,11; 1,42; 3,6,9; 8, 30, 2; 8,35,3; and 9,92.4 <o:p></o:p> And these 33 gods are : Triyatrimsadyo deva Ashto Vasava Yeka dasarudra Duvadasaaditya Prajapatirscha Vashadkaranscha - Aitreya brahmana 10,5 <o:p></o:p> (Thirty three devas are Eight Vasus, leven rudhras, twelve adyatyas, prajapati and Vasadkara) Note : Vashad kara is sometimes replaced by Indra. Here is the names of all of them: Eight Vasus: Agni, Jataveda, Sahoja Ajara, Vaisvanara, Naryapa, Panktiradha, Visarpi. <o:p></o:p> Leven Rudhras: Prabhrajamana, Vyavadata, Vasuki, Rajata, Parusha, Syama, Kapila, Atilohita, Urdhva, Avapatanta, Vaidyuta <o:p></o:p> Twelve Adithyas: Tvashtr, Savitr, Bhaga, Surya, Pushan, Vishnu, Vaisvanara, Varuna, Kesi, Vrshakapi, Yama, Aja-ekapat. <o:p></o:p> And finally, Indra (or some times Vashat) and Prajapati <o:p></o:p> All other gods are to be understood as merely names or aspects of these original thirty three gods only. There are no more gods in a unique sense. The thirty three crores could be interpreted as a fancy number of purana coming from the original number 33. There is a reason why there are only 33 gods and no more gods are possible. Vedic deities have their close link with the Sanskrit letters. The thirty three consonants correspond to thirty three gods. (Consonants from ‘ka’ to ‘ha’ are 33). <o:p></o:p> Pramana: Te tryatrimsadaksharo bavat triyatrimsaddho deva. <o:p></o:p> There are no more genuinly separate gods than these 33. If they are there they cannot be invoked by Vadic mantras, hence are non Vedic. <o:p></o:p> Note there is no mention of Narayana in this Rg vatic list of primary deities. The only suggestive name ‘Vishnu’ is actually one of the names of Sun. <o:p></o:p> There is no justification for the claim that monism has no place in Veda. In fact Monism is the very official conception of Vedic Rishis and not an invention of Sankara or any latter or earlier lesser mortals. Here is the pramana: <o:p></o:p> Indra mitra varunamagnimahuradho diva sa suparno garutman Yekam sadhuipra bahudha vadanthyagni yamam matarisvanamahuh.- Rg Veda (1,164,46) <o:p></o:p> “Reality is one. The seers call it by many names; Indra, mitra, agni, Suprana, yama and Matarisva” <o:p></o:p> And this one reality is described as: Akshra (imperishable), Nitya (eternal ), sat (real), brahma ( ever expansive), and Ekam (one). The entire universe finds its abode in this one reality only. <o:p></o:p> Pramana : Yatra visvam bhavaty eka- nidam - Sukla Yajur Veda (32,8) . <o:p></o:p> All the gods of vedic mantras are forms of this one spirit. Pramana: Mahad devanam asuratvam ekam - Rg Veda ( 10,63,2) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Neither Narayana is a Vedic god nor is dualism, or any other form of non-monism, the Vedic doctrine. These are latter constructions and fabrications of pundits, not the truth of Rishis. <o:p></o:p> Saraban.
  7. And what about the poor old Sun god? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> In your busy promoting of Bhrama and Vishnu as the Bhraman, you forgot the real one. How do you overlook conveniently that a Bramin’s first and only commitment is Gayatri mantra, which is the very essence of Veda. Other gods are optional for a Brahmin. And Gayatri is representing which god? Savitr (Sun god) my friends. He is called Pratyaksha Bhraman (verily the manifested Brahman) <o:p> </o:p> “Vishnu” is nothing but one of the twelve names of Sun god. <o:p> </o:p> Sun god is the oldest god in other civilizations too. Egyptian mythology has it that Ra the sun god self created himself first. Then he created other gods. It is just another matter that we forgot him and relegated him to a non entity and promoted many other deities above him. It is different issue that we worship many deities But when it comes to sandia vandana, by gayatri, we worship Sun as Brahman and no one else. <o:p> </o:p> Sun verily is the manifestation of Brahman <o:p> </o:p> Saraba Iyar
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