RadhaMukunda

LOL, that last question was for Ravindra Keshavan who is posting about Cock and Bulls. The Markandeya Purana is actually a Rajasik Purana, therefore the praising of Durga doesn't necessarily have to be an interpolation. When did it start considering rajasik and tamasik puranas as non suitable as pramana, even if authentic and not interpolated? The popularity of the Puranas was decreasing after buddhism spread in India. Even if early Vedantins didn't quote some verses, that doesn't necessarily mean the verses were later additions. In some parts of India the Vishnu Purana might have been more popular and the Varah(sattvik), Narada(sattvik) or Kurma(sattvik) Purana less known. I also don't buy the all paths are equal of Vivekanda. But all paths in Sanatan Dharma have their beauty and I am definitely proud to be a Hindu.

Darkwarrior, I respect your knowledge of the Shastras and your intelligence. I tried to post in the Shiva Demigod thread, but the thread was closed. So forgive me if I ask this question here. Do you know why the devotees who are initiated in the Pushti Marga are not allowed to worship Shiva? I have a quote from vallabhacharya that places Vishnu and Shiva on the same level. I disagree with you about Swami Vivekananda and neovedantists spreading the idea that Brahman takes the form of different Gods. This idea was already present in the Puranas and in the time of Tulsidasa. In the Devi Mahatmyam of the Markandeya Purana Brahma says praying to Devi: Vishnu Sharira Grahanam Aham Ishanameva Cha: Vishnu took the form of me and that of Shiva. Different names are given to Devi in the Markandeya Purana, like Vaishnavi, Narayani, VishnuMaya. In the Bhagavatam, story of Prajapati Daksha, Vishnu also says that the person who sees no difference between Brahma, Shiva and himself will attain peace. There are dozens of quotes like this in the 18 Puranas, but I see no reason to post them all here.

Read a translation from the Gita Press and pay extra attention to the words by Shiva, Sati and Vishnu: http://gitapress.org/

Read this several times untill you understand what's going on.

Of SvAyambhuva Manu and ShatarUpA there were two sons (Priyavrata and Uttanapada) and three daughters (Akuti, Devahuti and Prasuti). Devahuti was given in marriage to Kardama-prajapati and we noted that this was the first ritual wedding in all universe in this kalpa of Brahma. Akuti was given in marriage to the prajapati Ruchi. Brahma’s first nine creations for the purpose of populating the world are called prajapatis. Prasuti was given in marriage to Daksha-prajApati. We shall now take up the story of Daksha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The Daksha-Prasuti couple had sixteen daughters. Their countless descendents are spread all over the three worlds, says the Bhagavatam. The ninth daughter Sati was given in marriage to Lord Shiva belonging to the triad of Divinities Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva. The first seven chapters of Skanda IV deals with the events consequent to an ill-feeling that Daksha developed towards Shiva. When this story was being told by Maitreya to Vidura the latter asks a legitimate question: How did this ill-feeling start? And why was it so serious as to lead up to the self-immolation of Sati?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And Maitreya recapitualtes the long story. Once all seers and sages assembled for a grand yajna. When Daksha appeared there with all splendour, all in the assembly – except Creator Brahma and Lord Shiva - stood up to honour and receive him. Daksha grew indignant at the fact that he was not paid the respect due to him by Shiva. Daksha gave a big speech insulting and scandalising the personality of Shiva, casting him in the role of an impure (*naShTa-shaucha*) and evil-minded (*durhRRidaH*) person. ‘Though bearing the appellation of Shiva, meaning ‘auspicious’, he is really inauspicious’ (*shivApadesho hyashivaH*) says Daksha. Some leading members of the assembly tried to halt him from going on in this way. Unmindful of such advice, Daksha proceeded to cast a curse on Shiva that he (Shiva) shall no longer get a share in the sacrificial offerings in yajnas. And then Daksha left the hall. <o:p></o:p> Incidentally in the whole of our Ancient purAnas,<o:p></o:p> there are only two persons, <o:p></o:p> who criticised the Lord straight in His face:<o:p></o:p> They are Daksha and ShishupAla<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Shiva did not say anything in reply. But Nandikeshvara, the foremost devotee of Shiva, could not brook the insult offered to the Lord and he issued forth a counter-curse to the effect that Daksha’s head will change into that of a goat and his Brahmana followers shall wander as beggars eating anything and everything. Not brooking this curse on the Brahmana race the sage Brighu uttered a counter-curse saying the followers of Shiva shall take to the path of heretics instead of the path chalked out by the Vedas. While this counter-cursing was going on, Lord Shiva also left the scene. The yajna that had been started was conducted by those present and finished in due time. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Several hundreds of years passed. Creator Brahma nominated Daksha-prajApati as the head of all the prajApatis. This bloated up his (Daksha’s) head. He performed a Vajapeya sacrifice wherein he did not invite many Brahmana sages of great knowledge. In continuation he started a major yajna named Brihaspati-savaM. His daughter Sati, the consort of Shiva, heard the news accidentally and pleaded with the Lord to allow her to go and attend the yajna festival in her father’s home. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But Lord Shiva said: Your father’s mind is tainted with malice due to excessive arrogance and anger born of self-identification with the body. My dear, Exchange of formalities in the form of rising from one’s seat, respectful behaviour and salutation, etc. is properly done only by the wise. They do this mentally with respect to the Supreme Person who is the indweller of every heart and not to him who regards the body as his own Self. It is the absolutely pure mind which is termed as Vasudeva because it is there that the Supreme Person is realized in His unmasked glory. It is in the altar of such a mind that I wait upon with obeisance Lord Vasudeva, who is beyond sense-perception: (IV – 3 – 23):<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> satvam vishuddhaM vasudeva-shabditaM yadIyate tatra pumAn-apAvRRitah /<o:p></o:p> satve ca tasmin bhagavAn Vasudevo hyadhokshhajo me namasA vidhIyate // <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Therefore you should never look at the face of Daksha, your father. If you ignore my advice no good will come to you thereby. Having said this Lord Shiva became silent. With a heart tormented by grief and anger, Sati, clouded by her Nature, proceeded to her parents’ home. There, afraid of Daksha who treated her with disrespect, nobody bestowed any attention on her except her sisters and her mother. Seeing that no sacrificial offerings were allotted to Rudra, she flew into a rage and reproached her father in faltering but angry words: IV -4 – 11 to 23.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> No one, except you, father, would antagonize Lord Shiva who is unsurpassed and to whom no one is dear or hateful, who is the beloved Self of all embodied beings. People like you discover faults even in the virtues of others but there are some pious souls who never do so:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> doshhAn pareshhAM hi guNeshhu sAdhavo gRRihNanti kecin-na bhavAdRRishA dvija / (4 – 12 –i)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> My dear father, you are committing the greatest offense by envying Lord Shiva, whose very name, consisting of two syllables, shi and va, uttered with the tongue even once and that too casually, purifies one of all sin. His command is inviolable. Lord Shiva is always pure, and no one but you envies him: (4 – 14):<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Yat dvyakshharaM nAma gireritaM nRRiNAM sakRRit-prasangAd-aghamAshu hanti taM /<o:p></o:p> Pavitra-kIrtiM tamalanghya-shAsanaM bhavAnaho dveShTi shivaM shivetaraH // <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You are envious of Him who is the friend of all living entities within the three worlds. For the common man He fulfills all desires. His lotus feet are resorted to by the bee-like minds of exalted souls, thirsting for honey in the shape of the joy of absorption in the Absolute Brahman (4 – 15):<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Yat pAda-padmaM mahatAM manolibhiH nishhevitaM brahma-rasAsavArthibhiH /<o:p></o:p> Lokasya yad-varshhati chAshishho’rthinaH tasmai bhavAn druhyati vishva-bandhave // <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Him whose lotus feet are resorted to by great devotees, honey-bees as it were in quest of the nectar of the bliss of Brahman, to Him who is the friend and benefactor of the universe, to Him who showers every kind of blessing on those who seek it from Him, to Him you have added insult to injury.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And She goes on like this. “I cannot bear to continue in this body born of you. This body of mine is now despicable. Persons like you who engage in fruitive activities by performing great sacrifices are concerned with satisfying their bodily necessities by eating foodstuff offered as a sacrifice. We can exhibit our opulences simply by desiring to do so. This can be achieved only by great personalities who are renounced, self-realized souls. Do not entertain a false notion that you are rich and powerful. I am ashamed to be called Dakshayani any more”. So saying She sat down and invoked air and fire by yoga and Her body was consumed by the fire so generated. <o:p></o:p> Sri Rudra heard about all this and in anger created Virabhadra, a fiery formidable form, who, with a large retinue of Bhuta-ganas invaded Daksha’s Yagashala, destroyed everything and severed the head of Daksha himself. Afterwards all the devas and Rishis appealed to Brahma, who, together with Lord Vishnu, took them all to Sri Rudra Himself. Finally Rudra was appeased and he agreed to come along with them to give back life to Daksha, but now with a goat’s head, and to allow the yajna to be completed. Lord Vishnu announced at the finale of the yajna as follows: “I am known as the supreme cause of the worlds, its soul, its ruler, the witness of everything, the self-effulgent being and attributeless Absolute. But in truth I am both Brahma and Rudra. I assume different names appropriate for the creation, sustenance and dissolution of the universe. He attains eternal peace who does perceive no difference among us three”.<o:p></o:p> Shuka winds up the story by saying: “The daughter of Daksha, after giving up her body was born anew in Mena, the wife of Himavan. She again chose Lord Shiva as Her beloved husband”. http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/SBAB5.html <o:p> </o:p>

Yeah I love posting. Sorry, I didn't understand.

No, not all advaita is mayavada and not everyone who believes that everything is Krishna (Brahman) is a mayavadi. Vallabhacharya established Shudha Advaita and the followers of that marga also believe that everything is Krishna (Ishavasyam idam sarvam, vasudevam sarwam iti), but they are not mayavadis. Mayavada means believing that everything is maya. Meaning that the world is unreal or only a dream. This is close to what buddhists believe. The term mayavada is used by opponents of Shankaracharya and not by his followers. The verse in the padma purana that Srila Prabhupada quotes is an interpolation by Jiva Goswami.

Sada Shiva, Narayana and Brahm are nirguna. Mahesh, Vishnu and Brahmanaspati(brahma) are saguna forms of brahman.

Beach 5: DEVOTEES OF THE LORD Wave 2: Ten Gems of Superlative Devotion Namdev. Kabir. Chaitanya. Purandara. Eknath. Tulsi. Bhattadri. Bhaskararaya. Thiagaraja Swami. Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada (1896–1977) was one of the foremost spiritual leaders of the twentieth century. The remarkable challenge that he undertook and successfully accomplished was the transformation of the most materialistic youth of the times – not just the orthodox and naïve believers of a gullible society of the East who grew up with hoary traditions of religious beliefs, but the rebelling anti-conformist westernised youth who were products of the luxury, affluence and license of the West -- not just a few, but literally thousands of them -- into the most godly personalities with the loftiest of spiritual and ethical ideals. This miraculous achievement has no parallel either in the past or in the present and very probably there would never be one in the future. This happened to be a marvel of just twelve years, precisely the last twelve years of his 82 years of life. It was all due to the fact that Prabhupada was an open book as an exemplary devotee of God, who would have been placed among the greatest of the Alvars or Nayanmars if only he had lived in ancient times. Coming in the lineage of Chaitanya mahAprabhu of the sixteenth century, he re-established the traditional bhakti school of Chaitanya in a totally modern context, by ‘building a house in which the whole world can live’. Till he was seventy he struggled alone to implement his master’s injunction of propagating the glories of Lord Krishna and transmitting the treasures of the SrImad bhAgavatam. But even in the land where these had been held, without any doubt, in superlative esteem by one and all, he could not succeed. Only three books were written by him. In the next twelve years he wrote sixty. Till he was seventy he initiated only one disciple. In the next twelve years a few thousands were initiated by him. . Till he was seventy the worldwide society of Krishna devotees was only in his dream. In the next twelve years not only did it come to fruition but it came to have more than one hundred centres all over the world. His unflinching and uncompromising devotion to the Supreme Transcendental Personality of Krishna made all this possible. He was the Lord’s Gift to humanity at large. Opulence, potency, fame, beauty, knowledge and dispassion are only some of the infinite qualities of the Supreme Personality that is Krishna , but each one of them is possessed by Him in infinite extent to the absolute degree. Not a leaf moves without the Will of Krishna. He is the Absolute Brahman. This declaration of the scriptures is the solid foundation for the movement now known all the world over as Krishna Consciousness, named as such by Prabhupada. Remaining faithful to the disciplic succession, that goes back to the days of Chaitanya, Prabhupada created a whole new international community of the young and old, male and female, scholars and laymen, all of them fully versed in the teachings of the Bhagavad-Gita and the Bhagavatam and all of them fully convinced that no man-made system can cure the ills of the world, it is only the eternal reality of Krishna that will do it. The logical conclusion is the unceasing chanting by this ocean of devotees, singly and collectively, of the classic mantra : hare kRSNa hare kRSNa kRSNa kRSNa hare hare; hare rAma hare rAma rAma rAma hare hare. It is now the most popular mantra known the world over. But even till as late as the fifties of this century it was not known – and certainly not heard -- beyond the shores of India and even within India it was familiar only to those who had any contact with Hindu religious activities or bhajans. The ecstasy with which the Krishna Consciousness devotees dance and jump at the chanting of this mantra for hours together is a sight that should be marked as the greatest miracle of modern times for every one to watch. This ecstasy of divine bliss is not in something that you obtain with great effort after you reach a certain level of spiritual consciousness or after you enter the precincts of the divine worlds, but it is experienced right here, almost effortlessly, in the chanting of the hare kRSNa mantra -- this is something which must have surprised even the demigods and angels in heaven. Abhay, that was his name as a child, only played with idols and pictures of God. Abhay De as a youth struggled to bring his wife and children and his contemporaries into his world of bhakti. Sri BhaktivedantaSwami as the disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, struggled to find a sponsor for the popularisation of his manuscripts which he conceived, wrote, edited and typed for the benefit of this fallen humanity. But the spiritual revolution was still not coming. Taking his Master’s prophecy of several years past as his only guidance and with total faith in Krishna he crossed the seas against heavy odds, his only property being a suitcase of manuscripts he had already written, two hundred three-volume sets, already printed, of the bhAgavatam explained by him in his inimitable english, an umbrella and a supply of dry cereal and with almost no money (just forty Indian rupees). The first few months of his American life must go down in the history of Devotees of the Lord as the worst torture (challenge!) to mind and body that any devotee ever experienced. He was frantically (but with hope and faith) looking for people who would listen to him not just once but repeatedly, people who would chant the transcendental name of God first at his bidding and then spontaneously, people who would live a life without illicit sex or gambling or intoxicants or meat, people who would live for Krishna. In looking for these he became a revolutionary in that he accepted their participation whether they chanted it as jazz, folk music or rock or Indian meditation. He had no government or other support, no sanction of a religious organization, no patron. As a total loner he planted the seed not only in a foreign soil, but that too in a completely unfriendly environment, whether of the weather or of the people. The American hippies were his first disciples. The major attraction to them was: his good food, even though unfamiliar, and a promise of reaching 'the high' and 'staying high' without drugs. They trusted him because he was the most sincere swAmi they had ever come across. What started like this steamrolled, by the Lord’s Grace, within the course of two years into an international movement, with a printing press of their own, with a few temple-like apartments on American soil, where there would be congregations at least three days a week, chanting almost every day, lectures by the swAmi, and certainly the writing work at the desk probably all the early hours of every morning by the divinely inspired architect of the whole scheme and unending dreams and explorations for the progress of the movement. Thereafter there was no looking back. The whirlwind tours of the swAmi started. As he said he never belonged to any single place, neither New York, nor Bombay nor even Brindavana. He belonged to Krishna. So he travelled wherever his devotees called him. One by one temples were coming up. Ratha-yatras, i.e., public processions of the sacred idols of the Lord displayed in gigantic chariots in all pomp and majesty were held in far-off cities of the world where they had never seen or thought of God in idols ever. Krishna’s Grace brought sponsors; a Ford, a Harrison and many more. The records of the chant created record sales. The swAmi’s bhAgavatam kept continually rolling off the press. The books were sold in thousands by the devotees in marathon efforts, with the same persistence and devotion, perhaps more, as their master had shown in writing them all his life. Altogether he had written more than 60 books. A Book Trust was created. The earnings of the Book Trust became the major assets of the Krishna Consciousness Society. Temples for Radha-Krishna and Jagannath were coming up in almost every country of the world. The swAmi had circled the globe almost a dozen times. A new era of Krishna Consciousness had been heralded and had come to stay. His Mission was over. The call was now coming from Krishna for him. But he was working till the last moment. He left behind him a large and growing organisation of properties and monies intended one hundred per cent for the purpose of devotional service to Krishna. And he also left a legacy of spiritual consciousness and devotional life which will live as long as the memory of Krishna lives. This would change the course of history for all time. Having taught the world how to live, he also taught them how to die by breathing his last peacefully in Brindavan amidst the chanting of hare krishna mantra by numerous devotees and representatives of the hundred and odd temples around the world . http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/52prabhupada.html

I am just making fun, I told you that I had no interest in arguing with you.

He confirmed it.

I heard from my guru who got it from shastra that came from brahma that it is actually 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So you are both 14 bhaktajan and indulekhadasi. Let a priest check your horoscope, maybe there's potential for a marriage.

Bhaktajan, what makes you think that studying vedanta is all I do? Never mind that. Bhakti takes various forms and different people can practice one or more forms. In the bhagavata purana navadha bhakti is described. (sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam) Kirtan is one form of bhakti, but the not the only one. It is indeed the easiest path, everyone who is able to speak can pronounce the names of Krishna like Madhava, Govinda, Damodara, Narayana. In his bhakti sutra Narada Muni mentions different definitions of Bhakti from Vyasa, Garga and Shandilya. Narada however gives the highest and purest definition of bhakti, bhakti like the vraja gopikas had. For ordinary people this is hard to achieve. The other definitions are also valid and easier to practice for the majority of people. "Srila Vyāsadeva, the son of Parashara Muni, says that is fond attachment for worshiping the Lord in various ways." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 16) "Garga Muni says that bhakti is fondness for narrations about the Lord, by the Lord, and so on." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 17) "Śāṇḍilya says that bhakti results from one's removing all obstructions to taking pleasure in the Supreme Self." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 18) "Nārada, however, says that bhakti consists of offering one's every act to the Supreme Lord and feeling extreme distress in forgetting Him." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 19) This last definition is a state of being that is even higher than the jnana of vedantins, the samadhi of yogis and the rituals of pujaris. In their previous lifes the vraja gopikas were rishis who did very hard penance for very long periods of time. After that they achieved gopi prem. We are just ordinary devotees who pick our path according our tastes. We might have wordly desires, we might forget Krishna doing our work. Who can actually claim to have reached the state of the gopis, or that of bhakta prahlada? The difference in philosophical belief in dvaita and advaita was also present among the rishis. Kasyapa and Shandilya held different opinions on vedanta. It's naive to think we forum members with our limited knowledge will solve this problem for once and for all. We can still argue, debate and discuss, but with respect for each other.

This is self evident for anyone who is unbiased. Nowhere in the stotra is there proof that Shankara changed his philosophy. It's actually a reinforcement of what ISCKON vaishnavas call mayavada. It's also a great devotional hymn.

This is not the way spiritual converatation should take place. If you can't even respect the other person, why are you talking with him in the first place about religion? What use is debate if no one is willing to learn anything from others? You might as well spend your time talking to a parrot.

I suppose you are a frustated sannyasi?

You have no arguments, Bhaktajan. You're constantly quoting off topic or talking unintelligible stuff. I do not wish to waste my time talking to you anymore. I hope you can find another hobby too. Watch a movie or something.

No need to spam, I can read the other topic. Listen Bhaktajan, stop trying to teach other people. Your messages don't make sense. They are annoying to everyone. I don't know who your guru is, but maybe it is wiser to spend some time with him rather than on this forum.

Shri Guruve namah In one way you are also my guru. You are teaching me how I should never become.

Thanks for quoting someone else again. Please, refrain from writing anything yourself. Your writings are unitelligible.

Radha Rani worshipped Ganesh and Durga in her home. So she is a Shakta and a Ganapatya. Rama worshipped Surya, so he is a Saurya.

Thanks for your explanation.

http://www.bharatadesam.com/spiritual/brahma_sutra/brahma_sutra_sankara_34219.php

Bhagavata Purana was there before Shankara. Shankara refutes the Bhagavatam in his commentary on the Brahma Sutra. I haven't studied his complete bhaashya, but I disagree with Shankara here. I believe in the Puranas. So, the bhagavata was not written between the period of Madhva and Shankara. Other puranas aslo (skanda, padma, garuda) glorify the bhagavatam. It doesn't matter what the writing style of other puranas are. Veda Vyaasa was the most learned sage of his time and was obviously capable of writing in different styles. He also wrote the Brahma sutras. The Bhagavatam has more sophisticated language, because it was meant for a more sophisticated audience.