yasodanandana

ok prabhu, my suitcase is ready, i am going to come in your house at least for a month.. do not finish all samosas, i am arriving tomorrow morning.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

good objection.... shoes with images of deities are bad because in deity worship there are rules

(i do not wear also shirts or clothes with deities or spiritual masters because i do not want to bring them in the bathroom when i need to... /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

but harinama is without strong rules and regulations, everyone can chant and sing, without initiation and principles, and without even to know what is that

so it is possible to chant KRSNA in that way and it helps people to go back to godhead

of course it is not so good (even if the power of NAMA cannot be weakened by this) if a religious organization is involved DIRECTLY in an operation like that

imagine:

ISKCON and cocacola

chaitanya mission and limca

catholic church and Sprite and so on

but we have a band, they are on their own, they are chanting a religious song... no problem

if we want to perform harinama only in satvik conditions or environment we have to stop to do it in this planet

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://www.bjenergy.it/noFlash.asp

these guys are literally flooding italy with this "oh krishna" tune in an advertising TV spot

the brand is a major company in analcoholic drinks

you cannot watch television (any channel) for one hour without listen to this "OH KRISHNA" chanting two or three times!!!

http://www.bjenergy.it/starship_testo.pdf

the text is parampara... imho

thank you very much for your precious message

up

Mxyzptyk: "The bottom line is, as Yasodanandana prabhu has pointed out repeatedly, that one of the pillars of the post-samadhi ritvik system is the nonstop blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and all others affiliated with the Gaudiya Math. Of course, if one of them were to suddenly endorse the Post-samadhi ritvik idea, then that person would be used (although not followed as a siksa guru) to prop up the PS ritvik system."

the enemies of bona fide gurus and devotees are:

1)bogus gurus who have fear of the comparison, they keep their disciples away from pure devotees otherwise, very easily, they'd leave and join the real thing

2)who say that parampara is interrupted and there's no more pure devotee to take shelter from

3)religious bureaucracy who have fear that the "necessary" revolution that comes with pure devotees will put in danger his routinary but sure "job"

4)every one who does not accept that the SADHU cuts his material attachments (this is the meaning of sadhu word)

history is repeating (shirley bassey) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i am sorry, it is in an "harisauri diary" i have all and they are very thick

of course i apologize

but it is also logical

licit sex is for have children and father and mother have the duty to bring the sons to krsna.... if this does not happens all the legitimation goes away

krsna is already in my house.. in the form of gaura nitai deities.. but i am so dull that i consider them statues and there's no change in my behaviour, if not some external show

please forgive and bless me

another answer is that if krsna gives his darshan he give also love, service, etiquette etc.

krsna is never separated by radha (= the personification of the love and service)

yes... srila prabhupada did like that to reduce the offence, not because he was agreeing

he had the right to reject completely the disciple

but the impression of a srila prabhupad not in such war (as we maybe believed before) with godbrothers remains

we should have children if we are sufficiently sure to care for them spiritually and materially.. so this is the rule

so you and your wife have to judge how many children you can care for in both ways

the worst thing is to have children only to satisfy the urge of sex

i have seen too much devotees prematurely married and mather and father only to have a little sex with the illusion of respecting in this way the regulative principles....... with very often the result of divorce or sons with problems

better to do the "little" sin (in comparison) to have some "illicit" sex (or sex without the intention to procreate) than do unwanted children

prabhupada says that if the son does not become a devotee, is illicit sex even if we have observed all the samskaras

of course ... in my humble opinion

yes ,,, over is not so good in every direction

and the other problems is in the BLOCKS

gaudya math is not a monolithe facing iskcon, is a tree with many branches, some maths (iskcon also is a math) will collaborate very easy, some others will do it only on the plane of harinama sankirtana

friendship, as ever, is a difficult art

very easy and natural

first let us state the principle that unity is good, then we will find the way caring not to be excessive

but we have to do it, this war is a tremendous source of vaishnava aparadha...

yes ,,, over is not so good in every direction

and the other problems is in the BLOCKS

gaudya math is not a monolithe facing iskcon, is a tree with many branches, some maths (iskcon also is a math) will collaborate very easy, some others will do it only on the plane of harinama sankirtana

friendship, as ever, is a difficult art

very easy and natural

first let us state the principle that unity is good, then we will find the way caring not to be excessive

but we have to do it, this war is a tremendous source of vaishnava aparadha...

SURELY WE CAN START WITH HARINAMA SAMKIRTANA

surely, in this forum, we are already united by krsna katha and the love for srila prabhupada

(jagad guru means ... guru of the world... me included)

yes this is the future........ maybe it will be difficult, but we have to be unite

http://www.mayapur.info/svga_story.html

"A few words with some Godbrothers on Prabhupada's deathbed did not change any of this."

prabhupada for first proposed 64 rounds, than he changed in 32, then 16

the same for godbrothers... first opposition to facilitate neophytes, next the change when he feel that there is no more need.. not too strange

you as a ritvik advocate live on a conversation done near the time of the departure of his divine grace, that you think that is revolutionizing all prabhupada's guru tattva

last minute changes are good only for you?

(you are oscillating between saying that what i have said is true, like now, and saying that it is not true, lilamrita it is not shastra and so on, maybe you are a little short of arguments and it is an honour for a poor preacher like me...... what are you doing..in italy we call it "climbing mirrors")

i am not a guru, and let us hope that a guru will answer to you ... and surely he will do it better than me..

it is not possible to love krsna avoiding radha

radha is the personification of the love for krsna (hladini shakti), the power given to devotees to be krsna lovers

so to say "love for krsna" is another way to say "radha"

and radha is now giving to you this feeling of love for govinda

are'nt you even a little grateful to her?

you have simply rewinded the same your tape... i do not rewind mine... haribol

but, for my clarification

what do you think about gaura govinda maharaja?

why he was anti ritvik?

"to try and force their way into ISKCON temples" is surely an offence, but the dychotomy iskcon-gaudya vaishnava, or dividing the world in these two blocks is your fantasy

you have to speak about me, i am not responsible of the act of anyone different than me, i do not force and i do not enter in places without permission

and i have many bad qualities, but generally i avoid to cathegorize (a kanista feature with mayavadi nuances... madyam and uttama (that i am not) go on a personal plane)

you are speaking to me, about devotees, not about disturbing people

disturbing people have to be avoided .......but ....... having not said anything against iskcon and having not revealed a plane for conquer your temple with my armed godbrothers, i do not know why are you saying this to me

do not cathegorize, maybe you are right for 99%, but the offense done to the 1% will destroy your spiritual life

<font color="red"> why are you associating, speaking with an evil gaudyavaishnava(sob) like me? </font color>

surely you will be not offended if a say that your spiritual master is more gentle, open minded and mercyful than you (and me of course)

"The real thing here is this aparadha will kill Iskcon in the sense that the viable essence of love for krsna will not take hold in an atmosphere where his devotee's are maligned.

You think you are protecting Iskcon but you are killing it. "

completely agree.... much more dangerous than a gaudya math devotee with a different opinion about carrots and waking up 15 minutes earlier for mangala arati

surely disturbing for ritvik dogma

(respect.. but they are not welcome.. strange.. it seems like an offence)

but what do you think about gaura govinda maharaja?

ok .... if you are against lilamrita (even if this episode is not at all controversial, it is recalled also by other sources, iskcon and gaudya math, i have read it also in a iskcon collection made before lilamrita) i have no more arguments and documents

please accept my humble obeisances

it is enough if you read the half page before and the next half page.. and you will find: "let us go together in western countries, in this way "prithivite.." will be true"

i am sorry but i have not lilamrita in english but if you are honest (and you are) it is very easy to find everything i said

neither my spiritual master nor me are going to be your iskcon temple presidents or gbc, so you are safe...

but "respect from a distance" is somewhat substituted (my english.. grrr) by the more recent statement by srila prabhupad that i have cited.... otherwise you have to explain to me how i can respect (=pay obeisances, calling you prabhu.. master) you and, at the same time, avoid to speak and listen by you

when i meet a devotee i recite the "vancha kalpa tharubyas ..." prayer... please translate it and explain to me how you can pray a vaishnava in this way then turn your back and go away or keep your doors closed.... or pay homages and keep distance

"you are like the desire tree, you can fulfill all my spiritual desires.." and i run away!!

not too logic for me, and said by srila prabhupada in special circustance dealing with neophites

i am curious of what do you think about srila gaura govinda maharaja...... i hate to put people in cathegories, but i have seen Him heavily criticized by some "post samadhi initiation" advocates

it is not a challenge at all, please let me know what you think

i have not the english Lilamrita but it is very easy, search in the last pages the famous lila when prabhupada says "i am a patita" and bhaktivaibhava puri maharaja answers "no, i do not accept it, you are not a patita, you are a patita pavana".... it is very famous, perhaps every devotee knows this episode

for my comprehension (and maybe also for many of iskcon devotees... i have some official services in iskcon ) of what is prabhupada siddhanta i am a(n aspiring) disciple of prabhupada

and if it is not enough, if you are preaching a "post samadhi diksa" i can declare officially opened the "post samadhi siksa movement"... and i immediately take shelter in srila prabhupada as a sisya

hello dear godbrother!!

(prabhupada speaks to you and me also when he speaks to jadurani, jayananda, dr singh , father emmanuel, george harrison, srila puri maharaja, srila sridhara maharaja, gaura govinda maharaja etc... )

(the fact that you can possibly think that gaura govinda maharaja was a bogus guru, not allowing and preaching against ritvik system, drives me mad...... i hope i am wrong)

"I heard His Grace Puri Maharaja when he arrived at Berkeley temple a few months back was openly begging pardon for not coming when Prabhupada was here. I wish I had been there myself. Maybe someone here was and can verify that one way or another."

i heard him personally saying like that in italy

a disciple (with not so much respect in this circumstance): "why you have not come in western countries with srila prabhupada?"

guru maharaja: "because prabhupada (some times he calls bhaktivedanta swami in this way) is a shaktiavesha avatara, i am a poor man, i am nothing... i was not ready to go with him"

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another nice thing is to see all this people full of proud for things done by srila prabhupada, if he's' everything, i am nothing, you are nothing, an iskcon devotee is nothing and so on

prabhupada said with the godbrothers, before leaving this planet, "if we preach together the "in all towns and village" verse will be true"

but ritviks have necessarily to sustain their theory with blasphemy, they are proposing only vani (half).. the intelligent disciple wants vani and vapu(full)

guruvani: "We've all heard the argument that Prabhupada resolved his long standing bitter differences with his Godbrothers on his deathbed, but as far as his disciples are concerned we can see no retraction or nullification of his long standing position towards his Godbrothers. "

/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

humbly i do not understand why you reject some instructions or statements and why you accept other ones

why disciples are not concerned by these lilas?

i do not think so

prabhupada is pure and krsna conscious in every circumstance

if you use this argument, also post samadhi diksa is a complete turnaround not documented in any book

and the famous "ritvik" conversation is official as the one made with the godbrothes, in the same place, with similar external health conditions, with a difference of a few days

(very catholic... the pope is considered not fallible only when he declares : " i am speaking EX CATHEDRA...(the throne of St.Peter)) /images/graemlins/cool.gif

obviously it is all right

but very often we take this statements in a fanatic way

srila prabhupad basically says that harekrsna is not a material religion closed in national and racist boundaries, where god is worshipped mainly for gaining material advantages

that is exacltly the same for the average christianism, islam, buddhism, hinduism and anything else

our main goal should be to convince all the pratictioners of any religion (and the atheists too) to add Hari Nama to their beliefs and rites and, if possible, to avoid to kill cows that as brahmins, we have the duty to protect

if we use srila prabhupad as a hammer to beat for our fanaticism, perhaps saying that hare krsna is no more for indians, or that we are against a faith or another, we become exactly like the materialist religions that krsna says to leave in the famous "sarva dharma" verse

for practical purpose i think that one can, in some context, classify harekrsna as hindus, many devotees involved in preaching at universities and so on accept and use the hindu definition when it is practical to do

but, as we see often in this forum, if i should feel myself as a hindu to join the modern material indian nationalisms and fanaticisms like the ayodya affair or other quarrels with muslims.... ok i am not hindu at all

and please, dear hindu brothers, let me enter in jagannath temple in puri and rangaji in vrindaban........ i promise to have a shower before!!!