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Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.10) f:

ato gurum pranamyaivam sarva-svam vinivedya ca

grhniyad vaisnavam mantram diksa-purvam vidhanatah

"'It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything-body, mind and intelligence-one must take Vaisnava initiation from him."

February 1, 1968, Los Angeles

Interviewer: You spoke of initiation. What is that initiation?

Prabhupada: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Krsna consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasadam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..."

Ok here's a letter for you:

76-08-20 Letter: Ajita

The names and beads duly chanted upon by your local GBC man, may be given at a fire yajna. The brahmana thread and gayatri mantra which must be heard through the right ear, may also be given at the fire yajna. All initiated disciples must chant 16 rounds a day without fail and observe the four regulative principles very strictly. The brahmanas must become learned in the sastras and very clean internally and externally by regularly bathing with water and the holy name. A brahmana must be fixed up in understanding of brahmana. One should not take it cheaply. This initiation is very serious and one should endeavor to follow the orders of the spiritual master with great determination. Daksina should also be offered when one presents oneself for initiation.

I guess you never heard of 'diksha mantras' or 'guru pranali', sounds like you never heard of Hari Bhakti Vilasa even.

Prabupada said many things in letters and morning walks, where he encouraged people in various ways. If you were there on many of these walks perhaps you would know, but I KNOW you were not.

But if you look into his books you will see his conclusive instructions in this regard, and one of those instruction was for us to familierize ourselves with the writings and treaching of the Gosvamis IF we want to advance in spiritual life. I'm sorry but people like you who never received diksha from Prabupada and misconstrue his words are an insult to him.

You act like you know what your talking about, but really are just hung up on your self and your inappropriate misinterpretations.

Go get some sanga of Vaishnavas, have you ever even BEEN to India or Braja?

I'm sure you will avoid answering this, regardless..do yourself a favor and go experience what it means to be with real Vaishnavas who are part of Sri Chaitanyas line and stop making up your own religion which is what it boils down to.

Srila Prabupada spoke about the importance of Guru-parampara over and over again and the need to take proper diksha within that, and he explained that a Guru-Parampara meant an unbroken line of disciplic sucession.

Sorry but just because you can act arrogant and insulting does not mean you are right.

cbrahma,

Your speculative understanding of diksha is in your mind alone and not supported by any Gaudiya Vaishnava scripture, Senior Vaishnava or Sanga be it Iskcon, GM or Traditional GV.

It underlines and mocks the entire Gaudiya tradition, Sampradaya, and direct associates of Sri Chaitanya as well as the six Gosvamis themselves and Hari Bhakti vilasa.

Who should we accept them or you who is not even a disciple of ACBS or anyone for that matter?

Fortunately. A smile most of the time too - even if others can't see it behind this old worn out bean! It pays to have a tiny bit of lightness as a beginner in KC.

Stay true to your lightness friend, it will help you, so many become hard in their so-called knowledge, it is just ego.

smarty pants;)

HA! Nice to see you got a sense of humor, unlike some people around here hey?

There are many non-Iskcon people such as myself who know that he was a devotee.

Of course he was devotee, no one is saying he was not, however there ARE various classifications of devotees, you know this of course right?

BTW, I'm not an Iskcon devotee myself, I left that scene many moons ago svamiji, long before many of you youngsters invented all this new stuff.

That is elementary. You have already betrayed your ignorance.

kids these days! Oi Vey

 

*I wish I could spell your name ***

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Yes from a religionist sectarian point of view.

Oh get off it and stop pretending that you know it all, you don't and don't fool me at all.

;)

How do you know that for sure?

 

Ok from a Gaudiya Vaisnava perspective you may possibly be quite correct.

 

But doesn't attraction for Sri Krsna go beyond the box though? Or is it an exclusive thing?

 

What is your definition of 'devotee'?

 

I don't know what was in George's heart for sure - do you?

I know George loved Krishna and Prabupada, but he also was into other types of spirituality, kinda speaks for itself and certainly shows he did not have nistha for Krishna Bhakti. I am not insulting him at all, I loved him, he was a great influence on my life, but I am not going to accept some fantasy about him.

Why continue to believe in the myth Iskcon made up about him for their own selfish motives, they used him in so many ways and he got real fed up with it, that is way he even went so far as considering to give the Manor to SRF (FACT)

What does that prove? I know he didn't leave any for ISKCON. Intelligent to the very end.

It simply shows he had affection for SRF and other spiritual teachings and was not 100% into being a devotee, he did not have 'nistha' for bhakti to Krishna.

It's a fact George left money for SRF, he really loved Yogananda.

That is not true - The Beatles dropped TM long before George started chanting the Mahamantra. SRF or not he chanted regularly.

Of course the Beatles officially 'dropped' TM before George became a devotee (everyone knows that), however George did benefit concerts for the TM people long after he became a devotee.

It doesnt matter what we think when we die, most of us will be thinking, "Oh s---". What matters is what krsna is thinking when we die. George Harrison was very pleasing to Srila Prabhupada. All the speculation about his smoking, his drug use, his SRF and TM leanings, none of this has anything to do with anything. Krsna was thinking of george harrison as he passed away.

 

Shastra confirms my statement here. Krsna thwarted Yama in the jurisdictional question in the ajamila matter. Yama confirms that George is not in his jurisdiction, because he was initiated by Chaitagurudeva.

 

haribol, ys, mahak

mahak, George was of course a wonderful devotee and Prabupada loved him very much and I am sure Krishna did as well, however it is not speculation at all that he was into SRF, TM and others types of spirituality, even after he became a devotee. At one point he even considered giving the manor to the SRF people because of how burnt out he had become with all the harassment he got from devotess there.

In the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, second vilasa, Sanatana and Gopala Bhatta Gosvamis give a very detailed explanation of the process of diksha. In this description the whole process is summarized by saying that the only necessary and indeed essential act in initiation, is the speaking or giving of the mantra, (not the Hare Krishna mantra which is referred to correctly as Hari nam and not mantra) but 'Klim Krishnaya Govindaya Gopijanavallabhaya Svaha', by the guru into the disciple's ear (Hari-bhakti-vilasa 2.243-6)

"Did Lord Caitanya perform initiation ceremonies? I heard He didn't"

No but his direct associates did and HE himself took formal diksha from Isvara Puri and BTW he DID teach by example.

Krishna himself took diksha too ya know.

Stop pretending you know what your talking about here, your anger is evident more than your unjustified arrogance. You are so far off base it is silly and I cannot believe I am having a converstion with such a person as you, this is just nuts.

You want to believe this stuff so you grasp at as many things possible to support it and twist them and insult anyone who disagrees,

But little do you know you insult Prabupad himself in doing so and the entire Gaudiya sampradaya.

I'm done with you silly boy

Real diksa is not necessarily formal according to Prabhupada. But then you know better.

We Prabupada disciples are all so grateful you finally came along to set us straight.

Oh and the ones who never took diksaha LIKE YOU are the real disciples..

LOL

"So was I around. I had Prabhupada darsana"

I know for certain you were not a disciple or ever lived in the temple full time, Prabupada always encourged his full time devotees to take formal intiation, you may have had darshan, but so did some reporters who knew nothing either.

You think you can convience his older disciples who lived with him this idiocy? HA!

methinks YOU are the one who needs to get over your self and your fabricated false presentation of Prabupadas teachings.