BDas

More on this issue: may 13, 1975 Morning Walk Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, I remember once I heard a tape where you told us that we should not try to read the books of previous acaryas. Prabhupada: Hmm? Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda's books or earlier books of other, all acaryas. So I was just wondering... Prabhupada: I never said that. Amogha: You didn't say that? Oh. Prabhupada: How is that? Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous acaryas' books. Prabhupada: No, you should read. Amogha: We should. Prabhupada: It is misunderstanding. Paramahamsa: I think maybe he was thinking that there was some things about some of the Gaudiya Matha books. Prabhupada: Maybe. Paramahamsa: And sometimes you said that better not to..., better to read your books. Amogha: When the devotees went to India this year, they said that Acyutananda Swami very..., chastised them that "You should never... If I catch any of you buying Bhaktisiddhanta's books from Gaudiya Matha then I will take it away," something like this. Paramahamsa: Yeah, that was, the reason was because of, he didn't want the devotees going to Gaudiya Matha But there's nothing wrong with the idea of studying the previous acaryas' books. Prabhupada: No. Who said? That is wrong. We are following previous acaryas. I never said that. Paramahamsa: All of your commentaries are coming from the previous acaryas. Prabhupada: Yes. Jayadharma: But that wouldn't mean that we should keep all the previous acaryas' books and only read them. Prabhupada: That is already there. You first of all assimilate what you have got. You simply pile up books and do not read-what is the use? Jayadharma: First of all we must read all your books. Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Practically speaking, Srila Prabhupada, you are giving us the essence of all the previous acaryas' books in your books. 68-08-23 Vrndaban, India My dear Sripada Bon Maharaja, kindly accept my humble dandabats. I beg to inform you that many of my American disciples have become seriously interested in the philosophy of Krishna Conscious. They want to come to Vrindaban to study the Krishna philosophy as authorized by explained by the Gosvamis and specifically by Jiva Goswami in his six Sandarbha. Some of them are U. s of U.S.A. and Canadian universities. I beg to inquire what facilities you can offer them if they come in India for such studies. I may also inform you that my disciples are not from rich community of America. Most of them are whole time worker in my society. But they have sincerely developed Krishna Conscious by the recommended process of Lord Caitanya. You will be glad to know that they have been able to draw the attention of the Ambassador of India and Consul General in N.Y. by their Krishna Conscious activities. I hope you will cooperate for their further advancement in their search of Krishna Conscious philosophy. Vrindaban 9 August, 1967 67-08-09 My Dear Janardana, Pradyumna, and Sivananda, Please accept my blessings. I am very glad to inform you that we have safely reached India on the 25th July at midnight due to a sixteen hour delay in London. But I am glad to inform you that there was no bodily discomfort while traveling. Kirtanananda and I stayed for a few days in Delhi and then came to Vrindaban on the first. I am undergoing the treatment of an ayurvedic physician celebrated to be the best there is in the area, and I think I am feeling a little better. Anyway, as soon as I am a little fit, I shall return to you by the Grace of Krishna. Janardana: I had some talks with my god-brother, Swami Bon, head of the Institute for Oriental Philosophy here, and there is possibility of good cooperation between ourselves. If you want to learn sanskrit, there is ample opportunity in this institute. We had some preliminary talks, and it is hopeful that Swami Bon can give us some land for our own building; but even so, arrangements can be made with existing facilities so there would be no difficulty for the students who come here to study sanskrit and the goswami literature. I shall be glad to know about the activities in Montreal, and herewith you may find a note from Kirtanananda. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Dear MC, Preaching and practicing KC requires proper adjustment and overall consideration of the words of our spiritual masters. This is evident when you consider your last posts about food relief money and Prabhupads words to Burijana about "big moralist etc." Prabhup¢da: But a devotee’s view is that whatever may be her inquiry, if she purchases one book, she’ll be benefited. This is the point. But you, as big moralist, you, (laughs) you think that he has cheated. He has not cheated. He has benefited her. Somehow or other he has given a book to her. Someday she’ll read and she’ll benefit. But you people, you think that why we should sell like that, that, “Yes, there is some solution of power shortage.” Actually there is, but you think that he has lied. Just like there are sometimes the father’s child is suffering from fever. So the father wants that the child may take the medicine, and promises, “You take the medicine. I’ll give you this cake.” The purpose is not to give the cake actually. The purpose is the child may take the medicine. That is the purpose. But when the father promises that “If you take the medicine I’ll give you the cake.” But cake is dangerous for the child who is suffering from fever, but still the father allures him. “If you take the medicine and I’ll give you cake.” So is the father wrong or right? Bhürijana: No. Prabhup¢da: Similarly, similarly, if somehow or other one can sell one book to a person it is good for him. Don’t take how he is selling, but he’s giving the book to that person and he’s paying something and that is good. But big moralist, they cannot understand. They’ll see, “Why the father has spoken lie to his son. He’s not a good father.” They’ll mistake. Father is always friend. Father cannot be enemy. But for the benefit of the rascal child sometimes he has to say like that. That “If you take the medicine I’ll give you cake.” So those who are mundane moralist, they cannot understand this thing, because they are mundane platform. The another example is that Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja. He was asked by K§øëa that “You speak lie to Dron¢c¢rya that ‘Your son is dead.’ ” Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja refused. For this he had to see hell. He was more moralist than K§øëa. For this moral activity he had to visit hell. This philosophy cannot be understood by neophyte devotees. Our purpose is why we are pushing so much this sales of books. Because our missionary activities will be very widely known. That we want. Somehow or other let him purchase a book. That is our mission. There is no question of transgressing moral principles. Arjuna. Arjuna was arguing with K§øëa that this killing of my relatives, it is horrible, abominable. Better I beg and maintain myself than I kill my relatives and become a king. Did he not say? That is ordinary man’s argument. But as Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja refused to speak lie, [break] Arjuna in spite of his conviction that it is sinful to kill my relatives, he still agreed to kill. Why? Bhürijana: That is supreme moral, K§øëa’s desire. Prabhup¢da: What K§øëa desires, if one dies, he’s above all this material. But it should not be manufactured. The thing is that our spiritual master wants to preach K§øëa consciousness, and he has repeatedly stressed to distribute books, we shall distribute books by any means, that is good. That is good. And if you become moralist that, “Oh, they’re taking this means, that means for selling of book, so I’m big moralist. I’m bigger than him.”

Here is some more info to consider. Bhürijana: Would you like me to do anything? What would you like me to do? I know I don’t want to be independent. Prabhup¢da: Why you are inclined to follow Siddha-svarüpa, your wife and you. What is your special attraction? Bhürijana: (indistinct) ...we couldn’t always be corresponding with you. I needed some personal instruction. Prabhup¢da: But first of all (indistinct) you what is the special attraction? Your wife said that their instruction is very clear. So what is the distinction between clear and ambiguous. What do you find ambiguous, what do you find clear? What is that? Bhürijana: I think the part I found clear, the more introspective points about humility, and changing one’s desires... Prabhup¢da: Humility means not to follow the instruction of guru? That is not... Bhürijana: No, that is not humility. Prabhup¢da: I’m asking you what is the special attraction? You say... Your wife says it is very clear. What is that clear and ambiguous? Bhürijana: You mean what is ambiguous and... (indistinct) what is ambiguous or what... Prabhup¢da: No. You say that is very clear what others are telling you. Now what is that ambiguous, what is that clear? Bhürijana: The clearness may be a deeper understanding to want to be humble. A deeper understanding to want to... Prabhup¢da: Humble, but if you do not follow your spiritual master’s instruction, you follow others, then where is the humbleness? You say that... Your wife says that what Siddha-svarüpa says it is very clear and and others are not so clear. Is it not? What is that clear what is not clear? Bhürijana: He says chant Hare K§øëa. Prabhup¢da: So who says that you don’t chant? Bhürijana: Maybe the emphasis wasn’t so much on the chanting even though everyone says harer n¢ma harer n¢ma harer n¢ma eva kevalam [Adi 17.21], everyone just chants their sixteen rounds a day, chants a half hour ¢rati in the evening and half hour ¢rati in the morning. Prabhup¢da: So what do you want more? What is your program? 24 hours? Bhürijana: I like more kÆrtana than that. Prabhup¢da: So you don’t like to sell books. Bhürijana: No, I think I like very much. I mean I think I would like to. Prabhup¢da: So what is difference? Bhürijana: Between selling books and kÆrtana? Prabhup¢da: No no. Between others and you. Where is the difference? When you point out that this is the point, we differ. What is that point? Bhürijana: Well maybe the point about more kÆrtana or less kÆrtana. Prabhup¢da: So if you chant more, they’re objecting? Bhürijana: No. Prabhup¢da: Then where is the difference? Has anyone objected (if you) chant more? Bhürijana: No. Prabhup¢da: Then where is the objection? What is the point of difference? Bhürijana: I think there’s no point of difference. Prabhup¢da: Then why do you say we find these instructions more clear? Puøöa K§øëa: You say that there’s no point of difference, but then you say that his instruction is more clear. There’s some contradiction. Bhürijana: It’s just the emphasis that was given to hari... to chanting. For myself, I know I was off track and I know that in my heart I built up an enmity toward your disciples and thinking that they..., that by their distributing books they were making people angry at K§øëa and... Prabhup¢da: That is real point. That is real point. Bhürijana: That’s what I felt. See, when I was in Hong Kong, people I would meet, they used to yell... They’d yell at me, “What have you done to K§øëa?” Some Indians used to say that. People we’d meet, they’d tell us they see the Hare K§øëa devotees and they hate K§øëa. I remember one specific time when I was speaking to one businessman who was helping us and... Prabhup¢da: He said that “We hate K§øëa"? Bhürijana: No no. He said that, “Your members of the Hare K§øëa, they’re making people in Australia hate K§øëa. They make people inimical.” Making people inimical to K§øëa. Puøöa K§øëa: They feel threatened simply that we’re preaching something that will discourage their sinful way of life. Simply they feel threatened. Not they’re hating. Their argument is that because of our strong emphasis on preaching and book distrubtion, they say therefore that the mass of people they have a bad impression of K§øëa. Bhürijana: And also because... Prabhup¢da: Because we are selling books. Puøöa K§øëa: Because we’re selling books. Bhürijana: Not so much the selling books. Maybe because of the emphasis on taking..., how much money can be taken. Like if someone says on the street, “Please give me a donation.” So they give him a donation. “No, you must give more,” and more and more. So the people think that the devotees are only interested in getting money and they get a bad impression that ISKCON is a money making movement. Puøöa K§øëa: We’re selling one half a million large size books each year. Harisauri: The thing is that the materialists will always find that. They see the devotees and we say that we renounce everything, but they don’t understand that renunciation means to take everything and give it to K§øëa. So when... Just like that time there was such a great commotion when we hired that Rolls Royce to take Your Divine Grace from the airport to the temple. So in the papers they didn’t put anything that you said. They simply put “His Divine Grace is arriving in a Rolls Royce.” So this is the general attitude of the common mass of people. Prabhup¢da: That is envious. So if they sell books, so that is making K§øëa unpopular? Bhürijana: But one must learn to be a good book salesman I think. Prabhup¢da: But selling book, K§øëa, does it mean that the booksellers are creating unpopular opinion? Does it mean? Bhürijana: Automatically, no. Prabhup¢da: When you say that they’re making enemies because they’re pushing this, what is wrong there? Actually, I can so far understand that you do not like to sell books, or you cannot sell books. Bhürijana: Actually I’ve never really tried. Prabhup¢da: Eh? Bhürijana: I’ve never really attempted very much. Prabhup¢da: Those who are selling books you think of them they’re not very advanced. Bhürijana: I don’t think they can do it for very long. Prabhup¢da: Eh? Bhürijana: I don’t think that they can continue for a very long time if they are not advanced. Prabhup¢da: But actually they’re doing. So why do you say they cannot continue long? Hari-sauri: No, he’s saying that if they weren’t..., that they must be advanced actually if you look at it in the proper perspective. The ones that are continually distributing, they, they must be advanced. Otherwise one could not do it for a very long time. Bhürijana: When people... Often used to make me angry when people would collect money for..., using lying terms and say that they’re collecting money for the welfare center here, or to feed the children here, or to bus the children there, and they’d collect money like that but it wasn’t very straight forward. Puøöa K§øëa: Prabhup¢da has many times given the instruction to the devotees that they should try as much as possible to distribute the books on their own merit. [break] ...wanting this knowledge. Bhürijana: But they... [break] ...so much (indistinct) is collecting, not distributing books. Puøöa K§øëa: No, but the point is that Prabhup¢da’s instruction is there. Bhürijana: But all the devotees want to hear is Prabhup¢da also said “by hook or by crook.” Puøöa K§øëa: Sometimes it may be required to interest someone in a book, that they may find out their interest. Just like people are interested in philanthropic activity. Prabhup¢da: Just like our... What is his name? Hari-sauri: Tripur¢ri? (laughter) Prabhup¢da: Some lady inquired, “Is there any instruction about the power shortage?” “Oh, yes.” (laughs) So she purchased, and the next day she said, “There is nothing about power.” So suppose Tripur¢ri has sold one book. The lady inquired, “Is there any basic instruction about power shortage?” And he said, “Yes.” So you think it is wrong. That is your version. Bhürijana: I think a simple lie like that is not bad. Prabhup¢da: But a devotee’s view is that whatever may be her inquiry, if she purchases one book, she’ll be benefited. This is the point. But you, as big moralist, you, (laughs) you think that he has cheated. He has not cheated. He has benefited her. Somehow or other he has given a book to her. Someday she’ll read and she’ll benefit. But you people, you think that why we should sell like that, that, “Yes, there is some solution of power shortage.” Actually there is, but you think that he has lied. Just like there are sometimes the father’s child is suffering from fever. So the father wants that the child may take the medicine, and promises, “You take the medicine. I’ll give you this cake.” The purpose is not to give the cake actually. The purpose is the child may take the medicine. That is the purpose. But when the father promises that “If you take the medicine I’ll give you the cake.” But cake is dangerous for the child who is suffering from fever, but still the father allures him. “If you take the medicine and I’ll give you cake.” So is the father wrong or right? Bhürijana: No. Prabhup¢da: Similarly, similarly, if somehow or other one can sell one book to a person it is good for him. Don’t take how he is selling, but he’s giving the book to that person and he’s paying something and that is good. But big moralist, they cannot understand. They’ll see, “Why the father has spoken lie to his son. He’s not a good father.” They’ll mistake. Father is always friend. Father cannot be enemy. But for the benefit of the rascal child sometimes he has to say like that. That “If you take the medicine I’ll give you cake.” So those who are mundane moralist, they cannot understand this thing, because they are mundane platform. The another example is that Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja. He was asked by K§øëa that “You speak lie to Dron¢c¢rya that ‘Your son is dead.’ ” Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja refused. For this he had to see hell. He was more moralist than K§øëa. For this moral activity he had to visit hell. This philosophy cannot be understood by neophyte devotees. Our purpose is why we are pushing so much this sales of books. Because our missionary activities will be very widely known. That we want. Somehow or other let him purchase a book. That is our mission. There is no question of transgressing moral principles. Arjuna. Arjuna was arguing with K§øëa that this killing of my relatives, it is horrible, abominable. Better I beg and maintain myself than I kill my relatives and become a king. Did he not say? That is ordinary man’s argument. But as Yudhiøöhira Mah¢r¢ja refused to speak lie, [break] Arjuna in spite of his conviction that it is sinful to kill my relatives, he still agreed to kill. Why? Bhürijana: That is supreme moral, K§øëa’s desire. Prabhup¢da: What K§øëa desires, if one dies, he’s above all this material. But it should not be manufactured. The thing is that our spiritual master wants to preach K§øëa consciousness, and he has repeatedly stressed to distribute books, we shall distribute books by any means, that is good. That is good. And if you become moralist that, “Oh, they’re taking this means, that means for selling of book, so I’m big moralist. I’m bigger than him.” Bhürijana: I don’t think there is so much enmity because of the books themselves. Prabhup¢da: No, I think that.. I do not know what they are doing, but I have information that they’re not selling books. Bhürijana: Some I think. I think some. Prabhup¢da: But not... Bhürijana: Comparable amount. Prabhup¢da: Yes. Others who were transgressing the moral principle, they were selling more books. And those who are big moralists, they could not. Puøöa K§øëa: They’re also distributing one pamphlet printed by Siddha-svarüp¢nanda. Then if they like they can buy one of Prabhup¢da’s books. Prabhup¢da’s book comes second. Prabhup¢da: Sometimes I’ve heard so many things. Bhürijana: But they give those away for free. I mean just in the sense that someone maybe doesn’t want to purchase anything. So they give him something for free about K§øëa. Puøöa K§øëa: First they do that. Bhürijana: Only because it’s free. Not that a... As far as I know. Prabhup¢da: They get knowledge free, then why they should purchase? If you give them the opportunity that we take material, knowledge free then why they will purchase? Bhürijana: If we can become K§øëa conscious without following the rules and regulations, why follow the rules and regulations? That’s what I was thinking a while ago. Prabhup¢da: They should follow what their spiritual master says. Book selling, there is no question of moral and immoral. They must sell. Just like in fighting. Where there is fight, the soldiers, to gain victory, there is no question of moral and immoral. He must. Bhürijana: ÇrÆla Prabhup¢da, but I think the thing I understand least, is that if they are not doing what you want... I mean... I’m sitting before you now and you’re telling me and I’m listening, and you are my spiritual master. I must accept. Prabhup¢da: We want that book selling must be increased as much as possible. This we want. The same thing. Let the child take medicine. Never mind the father is speaking lies. That is... Because as soon as he takes the medicine he’ll be benefited. End justifies the means. End is that everyone should have a K§øëa literature. Doesn’t matter what is the means. Because he has taken one K§øëa literature, that justifies everything. This is the principle. Bhürijana: How about just collecting without giving any literature? Just collecting. Three months ago I saw it in Australia, with a lying line too. Not telling the truth. And that wasn’t very long ago. Hari-sauri: Sometimes the devotees are just distributing incense. Hari-sauri: They collect and distribute incense. Sometimes they don’t distribute books. Puøöa K§øëa: Maybe they have to pay off a loan on the temple. All the devotees are well aware that Prabhup¢da’s books have first priority. Everyone knows it. The consciousness is very (indistinct) It’s not a consciousness of giving. Hari-sauri: Prabhup¢da’s point is that if you see fault with the method of implementing the spiritual master’s instructions, you’ll fail to follow the instructions. Prabhup¢da: No the point is not that they have not done any wrong. Don’t think like that. But my point, that is, my instruction is sell books. Bhürijana: I understand. In other words if you think they’re doing it wrong, you do it better. If you see the wrong thing... But do it. Make sure you do it, but do it without the wrong thing. Prabhup¢da: Yes. Bhürijana: I feel that this is... Prabhup¢da: Besides that, if you do not take to Deity worship, then you shall remain unclean. That’s a fact. (end)

Dear Valaya, I mentioned something about the contents of these two letters on the other thread and you raised a strong but vague objection of some sort. I don't have Veda base so I asked a friend to try to find these letters in question. Letters that I had some recolection of but had not read in more than 20 years. Now that we have the letters I am curious to know what your objection was about. BDas Sydney 14 February, 1973 73-02-14 My Dear Rupanuga, Regarding our sankirtana party members dressing up as hippies in order to increase book distribution this is not a very good plan. I am instructing Bali Mardan Maharaja that this should be stopped, that we should not give anyone cause to call us hippies, but the devotees can dress up in respectable clothes like ladies and gentlemen in order to distribute my literatures under special circumstances, but even this program should not become widespread. It should only go on under the supervision of Bali Mardan Goswami and Karandhara das. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Bombay 6 October, 1973 73-10-06 Los Angeles My dear Karandhara, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated September 26th, 1973, and I have noted the contents carefully. Yes, you can go on with your book distribution as you were doing before, there is not any harm. I thought that our men were becoming like hippies, but now I understand from you that that is not the case. So I have no objection. Our main business is to distribute books, and from the reports I am receiving from all over the world, the progress is very encouraging. So far as the woman distributers who have left New York and Boston Temples and have gone to New Vrindaban, they should return immediately and resume their original service. In Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Movement, everyone is preacher, whether man or woman it doesn't matter. I do not know why Kirtanananda Maharaja is encouraging our woman devotees not to go out on Sankirtana for book distribution. Everyone should go out. You have not replied to my recent letter about transferring some Krsna books. Now you may keep ready eight Krsna books and I shall advise you where to send them. Hanuman Goswami has written me one letter and requested me to send a copy of my reply to you for forwarding it to him. Please find the copy enclosed and forward it on. I hope this meets you well. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS:tkg

Here are some related quotes about innovation that might be interesting to discuss. In 1974 without his knowledge Ramesvara wrote to Prabhupda requesting that he give Tripurari Das brahmachari sannyasa. Prabhupada replied: "If he takes sannyasa he may not be able to constantly assume so many disguises in public and employ so many tricks for selling books to persons, as it is not in accord with some of the etiquette for sannyasa. You write this recommendation is your own idea and that he himself is perfectly happy heading up a traveling party of book distributers. So let him go on as he is doing; Krsna is giving him all facility and without question he is doing more than any sannyasi." One year later he gave Tripurai Swami sannyasa anyway, and then wrote about changing one's dress for sankirtana In Cc thus: Following Särvabhauma Bhaööäcärya's instructions, the King had given up his royal dress. He now entered the garden in the dress of a Vaiñëava. PURPORT Sometimes members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness-especially in the Western countries-find it difficult to approach people to distribute books because people are unfamiliar with the traditional saffron robes of the devotees. The devotees have therefore inquired whether they can wear European and American dress before the general public. From the instructions given to King Pratäparudra by Särvabhauma Bhaööäcärya, we can understand that we may change our dress in any way to facilitate our service. When our members change their dress to meet the public or to introduce our books, they are not breaking the devotional principles. The real principle is to spread this Kåñëa consciousness movement, and if one has to change into regular Western dress for this purpose, there should be no objection. Madhya 14.6

Dear Friends, I think that ample evidence has been given that Prabhupad was against homosexuality and gay marriage. Evedence can be given that he was against a lot of other things including divorce which is now a commonly accepted within the KC movement at large. I am not in favor of Homosexuality and gay marriage any more than I am in favor of illicit sex in general or divorce. I am in favor of being inclusive and that will mean different things to different people. Thanks to Stonehearted, Audarya lila, and others for their support. And thanks to MC, JNdas, JRd, and others for their participation and their lively antithesis to my thesis. And thanks especially to the Gay devotees who took part as well. Srila Sridhar Maharaja used to say that thesis-antithesis and synthesis is the way of progress. Some may not agree with this statement or the way I am applying it here. OK, so be it. I want to end my participation in this thread with this post from CC that shows how Mahaprabhu and Prabhupad advised us to find the ways and means to include everyone in the Krishna Consciousness Movement. Respects to all and Hare Krishna, Brahma Das Seeing that the Mäyävädés and others were fleeing, Lord Caitanya thought: I wanted everyone to be immersed in this inundation of love of Godhead, but some of them have escaped. Therefore I shall devise a trick to drown them also. > >PURPORT > >Here is an important point. Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu wanted to invent a way to capture the Mäyävädés and others who did not take interest in the Kåñëa consciousness movement. This is the symptom of an äcärya. An äcärya who comes for the service of the Lord cannot be expected to conform to a stereotype, for he must find the ways and means by which Kåñëa consciousness may be spread. Sometimes jealous persons criticize the Kåñëa consciousness movement because it engages equally both boys and girls in distributing love of Godhead. Not knowing that boys and girls in countries like Europe and America mix very freely, these fools and rascals criticize the boys and girls in Kåñëa consciousness for intermingling. But these rascals should consider that one cannot suddenly change a community's social customs. However, since both the boys and girls are being trained to become preachers, those girls are not ordinary girls but are as good as their brothers who are preaching Kåñëa consciousness. Therefore,to engage both boys and girls in fully transcendental activities is a policy intended to spread the Kåñëa consciousness movement. These jealous fools who criticize the intermingling of boys and girls will simply have to be satisfied with their own foolishness because they cannot think of how to spread Kåñëa consciousness by adopting ways and means that are favorable for this purpose. Their stereotyped methods will never help spread Kåñëa consciousness. Therefore, what we are doing is perfect by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu, for it is He who proposed to invent a way to capture those who strayed from Kåñëa consciousness. Ädi 7.33 All Glories to Prabhupada!.......BDas

Dear Jayaradhe dasi, I think in my last few posts I addressed all the points you directed to me in one way or another. Whether or not some special concession is accepted regarding Gay partners will vary from group to group. Those who are earnest enough will find room somewhere in the KC movement. Regarding Gay couples I believe we should make room for them or at least some group should. Others who have strong objections will belong to a different group. Women also have issues and will gravitate where they are able to find a comfortable place in the Krishna consciousness movement. As you pointed out spirit souls are not men, women, or third sex. But in their conditioned state they go where they feel comfortable and wanted. We do not expect everyone to become perfectly realized and above all conceptions of bodily identification overnight. Its a gradual process and I know you will agree that in some way everyone should be encouraged and accepted if they have faith in Mahaprabhu. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Dear Maitreya, Here again you asked me the hypothetical question, "Would you feel comfortable presenting this idea to SP and how do you think he would have reacted"? I gave my answer and it does not confrom to your conception of Prabhupad. What else is new? Your question called for speculation when you asked how do you think SP would have reacted to my position. Then when I answered honestly how I believed SP would have supported my position you condemned my speculation. So please no more hypothetical questions from you. And you also asked what advanced devotee supports my position so here is my reply: His Holiness Tripurari Goswami is a renowned devotee of Lord Krishna and a disciple of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. He has been presenting the teachings of Lord Krishna since the early 1970's by distributing his gurudeva's books on a grand scale and also by writing and publishing his own excellent works. Regarding third gender issues, His Holiness has stated, "...my opinion regarding gay and lesbian devotees is that they should be honored in terms of their devotion and spiritual progress. They should cultivate spiritual life from either a celibate status, or in something analogous to a heterosexual monogomous situation. Gay and lesbian people have always been a part of society from Vedic times to our post modern times. They should be accepted for what they are in terms of their sexual orientation and encouraged like everyone else to pursue spiritual life." Tripurari Swami has an ashrama in northern California and has been accepting disciples for many years. It should be clarified that there are many important spiritual matters to be considered when accepting a guru, and that the issue of gay acceptance is only one consideration amongst many. For more information on His Holiness Tripurari Goswami, you can visit his website at: http://www.swami.org Hare Krishna, Brahma

OK, Dasanudas, Your post sounds reasonable enough to me. And I am happy that for now the posts seem to be in my favor. Or lets say favorable to accomodation of Gay unions in one way or another. It think that you are in Australia a country that is not exactly noted as Gay friendly. I live in the ultra liberal city of SF where any person who thinks that Gays should not be allowed equal rights regarding marriage are considered in a fanatical minority. I believe at least here in SF some concession should be made to accomodate Gay commitments. And in other HK groups they should be in the least overlooked and Gay devotees should always be encouraged. A Krishna consciousness movement that expresses tolorance and encouragement for all. What a novel idea! Hare Krishna, BDas

Dear Maitreya,you wrote: Brahma is considering sanctioned,[as in formal fire sacrifice marriages] for homos. Reply: Thanks, I got guite a laugh out of this fire sacrifice post. You seemed to have extrapolated a lot out of my statement: "I would be prepared to do the ceremony myself if I thought that by performing gay marriages I could bring the homosexual community to the feet of Mahaprabhu." Actually, I was thinking of a more secular marriage like do you take this man and man or woman and woman as the case may be etc But come to think of it if the requirements could be met i.e. that I could by performing a fire sacrifice bring the gay community to the feet of Mahaprabhu than I would indeed go ahead and perform a fire sacrafice. (And I would be willing to do so in front of Yamaraja himself and let him be my judge.) Other than that I think some personal commitment by the Gay couple and close friends would be sufficient. Some discretion might be in order here also. After all Prabhupad said women could perform artik in his temples except for some places in India where tradition is so strong against this idea that massive criticism by ortodox hindus would be the result. We have seen what kind of massive criticism resulted simply from my suggestion that Gay unions of some kind be accomodated. Anyway this has been quite a discussion and thank to stone for the kind words of support. Respects to all, Brahma

Dear Maitreya, I would have stated my case as I did at another time when I talked to SP about book selling and public opinion. Considering the conditions of modern times I believe SP would agree with me on this issue. SP changed his opinions at times after talking with disciples and learning more of the facts. One example is when he first rejected the idea of book distribution in regular clothes and wigs but later permitted it after a discussion with Karandhar and others. And SF and world opinion on Gay rights was not the same 25 years ago when SP was here. Hare Krishna, Brahma

JN: The Acharya knows how to adjust things...And the empowered acharya, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has directly instructed his disciples, "Do not change anything.", "If you change, you lose your authority," etc. BD: And did you lose your authority when you decided to sell books on Mayavadi Hinduism as a come on to Krishna Consciousness? Or do you feel you have some leeway in what can be done to find the ways and means to spread KC? JN; If Srila Prabhupada thought homosexual marriages would help people take to Krishna consciousness, he could have told us. BD: That’s a good one! And if Srila Bhaktisiddanta thought that boys and girls should dance in the temple together or that divorce should be accepted he would have stated it in writing, right? JN: The Acharya has told us that homosexual marriages do not bring people to the feet of Mahaprabhu, they cause such people to fall away from him. BD: He also said all marriage is a dark well but in KC there is a concession for it. And if SP came to an American city where up to a million people come every year to celebrate Gay rights than he may have made some concessions to bring some of them into the fold. JN: And in Texas the culture is based on killing cows and having barbecues. If we tell people that killing cows is sinful, it will stop people from taking to Lord Chaitanya's movement. Maybe some would suggest changing Srila Prabhupada's teachings to allow for cow slaughter and barbecues at the Sunday love feast. BD: It is stupid to equate cow killing with a concession for Gay couples. SP said that a devotee could be considered a Vaisnava unless he eats meat. As Gays and gay couples are already considered Vaisnavas and already a fact of life the comparison is not appropriate. A better example is to compare divorce among devotees to concessions for Gay couples. This is much more reasonable than to equate gay unions with a Texas barbecue. JN: We do not need to change our acharyas principles to suit the degradation of Kali Yuga. If we simply follow and do not change, this Krishna consciousness movement will be successful and will expand more and more. That was what Srila Prabhupada said on several occasions. BD: The KC movement is already successful but still continuing adjustment will be necessary in order to make a relative and reasonable presentation of the philosophy. And no change means that we should adhere to the essence of Krishna consciousness. Do you think that women should be required to wear saris and stand in the back of the temple for all time and in all places? This rule as well as divorce and gay couples have nothing to do with the essence of Krishna bhakti. BD: Divorce and remarriage is a cultural norm in the west. Prabhupad at first said no divorce in Iskcon. But when he saw that the devotees could not follow this stricture he modified his position. JN: Srila Prabhupada was always against divorce. When "disciples" would not obey him, he simply told them, "do as you wish". That’s correct and that is my point. This is called a concession. BD: The essence of Krishna bhakti is not about sexual preferences. It is about the development of love of God. JN: And the first step is given as "In the very beginning take shelter of a guru." BD: And later we find out that the diksa guru and siksa gurus are equal and identical manifestations of Krishna. This is the Gaudiya conception of Guru that encourages a plurality of Gurus and continual revelation. The Bangalore and Mysore ritvik camps have another idea. JN: We should take shelter of Srila Prabhupada's instructions, and not alter them to suit our preferences. BD: Fine, and show me again where Prabhupad said we should sell the books of Aurobindo and Yogananda to promote Krishna consciousness. BD: The idea is to first introduce sadhu-sanga in a culturally acceptable way. JN: That was never Srila Prabhupada's method. He introduced something that was completely against the culture of America in the 1960's and 1970's. BD: This is not exactly true. Prabhupad found success by taking his message to hippie culture, a liberal group that was open to alternative lifestyles. These alternative hippies were “our best customers”. JN: He told the hippies to stop taking drugs, stop illicit sex, to stop meat eating! BD: Yes, but it is one thing to tell people to give up illicit sex and quite another to say they can’t have a partner for life. In the modern world committed gay couples are factual realities. How would people have reacted if they were told they had to give up their life partner before they were accepted into the KC movement? And what advice should be given to those already Gay committed couples who are interested in KC? Some people think that advice should be to tell them to give up being gay and dump their partner. In modern SF culture that would be the same as saying “get the hell out of here.” Marriage of any kind is a concession for sense gratification and more often than not is full of illicit sex by scriptural standards. But it is still better than unregulated promiscuity. And if Gay people can be Vaisnavas and find they cannot be celibate better they are in a committed relationship rather than being promiscuous. JN: He did not adjust it to suit the culture of the degraded west. BD: Yes he did. And along with proper adjustments he made many concessions. JN: He introduced the chanting of Lord Krishna's name in the streets, something which certainly didn't fit in with the western society - so much so that the police would often arrest the devotees. BD: Street chanting worked well in the culture of the 60s and early 70s especially in hippie areas where people were looking for alternatives. It did not go over well in the suburbs or in places where the norm was too conservative. And most of the arrests were for selling books. Where were you at the time? Hare Krishna, BDas

Dear Maitreya, I said, “If I thought that by performing Gay marriages I could bring the homosexual community to the feet of Mahaprabhu than I would agree to do so.” You then asked a hypothetical question about when or in what situation I would consider allowing Gay marriage in the HK movement. My answer was that I believe in order to introduce KC on a large scale in Gay culture it would be necessary to adjust the presentation to make it acceptable to some issues they considered socially important M: Yes that would succeed in pleasing the homos in SF.But would it please Krishna and His devotees that have spoken so strongly against homo marriages? NO! No need to become all things to all people. BD: Krishna is pleased when people develop love of God. And the KC movement is not a popularity contest it is an effort to spread the chanting of HK and the ideal of Mahaprabhu. M: One doesn't need to be married to chant, so where is the gain? I see none. Let them chant as they are, no problem. BD: There is not a problem if they give their lives to Krishna regardless of present Iskcon policies. The problem arises when those who are attracted to KC are unwilling to consider taking KC seriously simply because of Iskcon’s social policies. And this is true in one way or another for the majority of Prabhupads disciples who are now outside Iskcon M: I live in Berkeley so I know what is going on in SF.It is disgusting. gay pride week and the filthy gay parade. Why do we need to bend over for them? I won't. BD: There are plenty of nasty things going on in the straight community and SP devoted much more time to talking about them. And all your dirty little references to bending over do not impress me. M: Your willingness to compromise on this issue in opposition to Srila Prabhupada's clear statements on the matter are frightening brother. BD: It is because SP was willing to adjust and compromise that I am also willing to do so. I preached for a time in the Middle East. Prabhupad said when preaching to Muslims that we could tell them they could keep their culture, their Koran, and continue to eat meat. Our efforts should be centered on introducing the chanting of HK and from that everything would come. M: And while calculating this thing have you considered how many you might alienate when it became known that the Hare Krishna's were now recognizing homo marriages? BD: YES! And the movement has and will continue to expand as well as split into different groups with various policies. There are already so many camps of Vaisnavas. There are pro and anti Iskcon groups and in Iskcon itself there is Pro GBC, Iskcon reform, and Iskcon ritvik. There are also numerous branches of Gaudiya Math. If a pro gay Vaisnava group like GLAVA is formed than what is the problem. I have not been a member of Iskcon for 20 years but I still consider myself in the KC movement. M: Best we don't change anything. BD: Best we become “essence seekers” as Bhaktivinode advises because adjustment and change is inevitable. And Best wishes as well. Come by for lunch sometime if you live in Berkeley. I am not as bad as some people might think and I'll treat for the lunch. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Dear Stone, So happy to see you you have joined the corps of on line preachers. Brothers in arms I think I said to you. So keep up the good work and fight the good fight. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Hare Krishna, Bdas Dear Maitreya, Thanks for the good question! You asked: Since you have stated you might agree to homosexual marriages, could you please explain why you think that would be a furtherance to the spreading of Lord Caitanya's mercy? Since we have ALL agreed from the BEGINNING that no qualifications are required to take up the practice, what gain do you envision that could come by homosexual marriages? Reply: My answer has to do with consideration of the present unique Gay culture of SF. This is a city with the largest Gay population in the world. It is the Gay Mecca where homosexuals come to live in the open. Where once a year the Mayor of the city performs a mass marriage type ceremony at city hall for up to 500 Gay couples. And where homosexual couples are accepted and even wield political power. If we are to introduce KC on a mass scale to any culture we have to do so in consideration of the cultural norms of the people we are dealing with. In SF homosexuality and gay marriage are already accepted as the norm. To go against this norm in SF would doom the acceptance of KC on any significant scale in the Gay community. Divorce and remarriage is a cultural norm in the west. Prabhupad at first said no divorce in Iskcon. But when he saw that the devotees could not follow this stricture he modified his position. To do otherwise would have driven many sincere devotees away from KC. Now divorce is hardly an issue and many devotees get remarried at the temple in front of the Deities. In a city like SF to make a religious edict that Gay devotees could not live together as a couple would have the same effect as telling straight devotees they could not get divorced. This law simply would not be followed and would only serve to drive potential Gay devotees away from the teachings of Mahaprabhu. The essence of Krishna bhakti is not about sexual preferences. It is about the development of love of God. To attain higher stages of realization one has to give up sense gratification and bring forth-intense devotion from within. Most often it is a gradual process beginning with faith and sadhu sanga. The introduction of sadhu-sanga into the culture is paramount and a higher consideration than assaulting the social norm with rules no one will follow anyway. The idea is to first introduce sadhu-sanga in a culturally acceptable way. And those devotees who grasp the essence of bhakti will proceed from there. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Dear Tarun, I just wanted to say "ditto" to your post above about fellowship and overlooking differences. Best wishes and Hare Krishna, Brahma

Maitreya wrote, There are however many who consider homosex marriage,sanctioned relationships, what ever you want to call them as grand deviations. Reply: And there were and are many who consider Americans as third or fourth class devotees who have villified Vaisnavism with fallen sanyassis, divorce and remarriage or boys and girls living and dancing together in the temples etc. These are all relitive considerations that do not address the essence of Vaisnavism. Bhaktivinode advised us to become essence seekers who could adjust the spirit of Mahaprabhus teachings in such a way that we would be able to introduce its practice into any culture. There is no material impediment to the culture of Bhakti. Bhakti is all-auspicious and can be introduced in some way or another into any culture. Sadhu-sanga has great potential and it is the duty of all followers of Maharabhu to find the ways and means to introduce sadhu- sanga and the culture of Bhakti to those in need. It is by sadhu sanga and the culture of Bhakti that the sinful are gradually delivered. And everyone in kali yuga is sinful not just homosexuals. There are so many cultures from left wing homosexual and feminist to right wing WASP and neo-Nazi. None of these cultures are better than the other unless they are opened to the idea of sadhu sanga and Bhakti. Prabhupad even considered hippy culture from one angle better because hippies were "our best customers". And the "other fools will never change". It means little if a person is "proper" in every respect but cares not for sadhu sanga and has no bhakti. But if a person has bhakti other faults are to be overlooked. Api cet sudaracharo, Hare Krishna, BDas

Dear Random, Thats acceptable to me and I believe both Srila Narayana M and Srila Sridhar M. It is also in the best spirit of Vaisnava behavior and shows that underneath the sometimes rough exterior you have a good heart. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Dear Random, Here is an excerpt from a series of letters recently exchanged between Paramadwaiti Swami, Tripurari Swami, and Srila Narayana Maharaja. This excerpt from a letter written by Srila Narayana Maharaja clearly shows his deep regard for Swami Tripurari regardless of some differences that have arisen. Dear Sripad Paramadvaita Maharaja, I am offering my dandavats pranams to the lotusfeet of the Vaisnava's, my heartly dandavats pranams to you. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga and all glories to Sri Sri Radha Govindaji. I received your letter and have noted the contents carefully. Thank you for conveying your concerns. For a long time I have wanted to meet with you and discuss deeply all the problems that have arisen. In my opinion it is all due to misunderstandings. I have so much honor for you, for Sripad Tripurari Maharaja and for Sripad Nrsingha Maharaja, even for all the sannyasi's and devotees of ISKCON who are really Vaisnavas. Sripad Nrsingha Maharaja has helped me so much in the beginning of my preaching outside India. Sripad Tripurari Maharaja also, I cannot forget their good behavior towards me. I want to give honor to all but unfortunately some problems have arisen due to misunderstanding only. So I humbly request all three of you to meet with me so that we may resolve this. (excerpt from Srila Narayana Maharaja) Dear Random, In consideration of this recent letter don't you think it is a good idea and about time you stopped your gossip and off color remarks about Swami Tripurari? I could go further and post other comments from Srila Narayana M where he talks about how displeased he is with those who misrepresent Vaisnavism or slander Vaisnavas in his name. While it may be true that Swami Tripurari did not have the highest regard for Srila Sridhar M in the beginning. After reading his books and getting away from the malicious slander machine of the GBC he soon became a disciple of Sridhar M and one of his greatest proponents. I know you to be sincere at heart so try to take all this into consideration. And if its an apology you want than I will apologise for myself and on Tripurari Swamis behalf for offending you in the past or any Vaisnava who had regard for Srila Sridhar Maharaja. I hope this helps to cure old wounds. Sincerely, Brahma

Dear Krishnananda, From what I understand Prabhupad worked on his Gita commentary for years and it was finished before he came to america in the 60s. Some addition along with further editing and its printing was done later after he came here. Hare Krishna, Brahma

Dear JN, You wrote:I'm not a politician. I won't change my views to please a few people such as yourself. I said what I said, and if we really want to air the dirty laundry we can. But things will start to stink, so I prefer not to. Reply: Gossip, slander, and Vaisnava aparada always stinks as does extreme sectarian consciousness. And anyone can see here that politics from the ritvik camp and the GBC is what your position is all about. BD

'Women, degradation and trust' S a n g a Saturday, September 23, 2000 Saturday September 23, Indira Ekadasi "The Gita has nothing to do with whether or not women can be trusted. Trust me. Prabhupada trusted his women disciples and his male disciples often proved untrustworthy." Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari. Q. I came across a passage in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita that disturbed me very much. The purport to Bg.1.40 reads, 'As children are prone to be misled women are similarly very prone to degradation.' Later in the purport Prabhupada says, 'According to Canakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy.' The Gita verse itself is acceptable but when it is followed by these other two statements, it starts looking like female bashing from some harsh, male dominated viewpoint. A. These apparently sexist statements (and there are some others in the Bhagavatam as well) have to be balanced with the way in which Srila Prabhupada engaged women in Krsna's service. He gave them positions of responsibility, and in spite of what he wrote here and there that might be considered sexist today, all of his female students loved him dearly as he did them. The statements themselves arise out of a particular cultural background, that of 19th century Calcutta, and India's ancient Vedic traditions. Prabhupada's Gita commentary was written over 50 years ago. Had he written his commentary today, it may very well have been different. He would have taken the social and cultural climate of the times into consideration. Prabhupada was in fact very flexible and very liberal minded. Within Gaudiya Vaisnavism he took revolutionary strides to improve the status of women and engage them in spiritual culture. His comments of 50 years ago do seem conservative and somewhat insensitive to today's postmodern worldview. But we have to identify Prabhupada with his spirit of making Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings relevant to today, and do that ourselves with his blessing, and go on from there offering our pranams at his lotus feet again and again. Here is my rendering of Bg.1.40, the verse under discussion, from my upcoming Gita commentary: "O Krsna, descendent of Vrsni, when irreligion increases women are taken advantage of, and when women are abused this gives rise to inappropriate mixing between men and women from different castes producing unwanted children." I did not write any commentary on this verse because I felt it was apparent that the text itself refers to times gone by. Although it is certainly true that when irreligion increases women can be taken advantage of, in today's world women can also take advantage of men. Inappropriate mixing between men and women does often produce unwanted children. This section of the Gita extols the virtues of family life, that which is vital to a healthy a society. It should be understood in this way. Otherwise, the argument raised here by Arjuna is one of many arguments he raises in the Gita based on material considerations in order to justify not doing Krsna's bidding. All of these arguments are refuted by Krsna when he takes the discussion to the level of the soul in the second chapter. The conversation between Arjuna and Krsna begins in chapter two, and the subject is the soul. From there the discussion moves to the engagement (yoga) that will enable one to realize the soul from selfless action (karma yoga) to knowledge, meditation, and ultimately bhakti. This is followed appropriately by the theology of the Gita in chapters 7-12. Chapters 13-18 further explains the knowledge that is relevant to self realization and God realization discussed in brief in the first six chapters. In chapter 18 the conclusion of the Gita is given, one that reiterates the concluding remarks of chapter nine. In short, the Gita has nothing to do with whether or not women can be trusted. Trust me. Prabhupada trusted his women disciples, and his male disciples often proved untrustworthy. Canakya Pandita's remarks may have been wise during his time, but they are not spiritual and thus subject to reconsideration. Women, lower birth, highest goal.  S a n g a Friday, June 16, 2000 Friday, June 16, Purnima (Full Moon), Snan Yatra (bathing) of Jagannatha Deva "If the wife is more submissive to Krsna, the husband should follow. The spiritual position is that everyone - men and women - should be submissive to Krsna." Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari. Q. I heard that verse 9.32 of Bhagavad-Gita can be translated in two ways, either as Srila Prabhupada did: "O son of Prtha, those who can take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth - women, vaisyas, sudras - can attain the supreme destination." or "...though they be sinful women, vaisyas or sudras..." Which is true? A. I don't think the Sanskrit supports the translation in which papayonayah (sinful birth) is used as an adjective to qualify striyah (women). However, Prabhupada himself did interpret this verse differently in one of his purports to Srimad Bhagavatam (SB 1.11.19) where he translated striyah as "prostitutes." Alternately, here is the translation and commentary I use in my upcoming book 'Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and Philosophy.' "It is certain, O Partha, that those who take refuge in me, even the lowborn, women, merchants, as well as the working class, attain the highest goal." Bg. 9.32 Commentary: "In this verse Krsna says that even the lowborn, who due to impiety in their previous life have taken such births, regardless of the seeds of their past and present harvest, can overcome their impiety if they take shelter of him in devotion. The sacred literature cites numerous examples of animal killers and animals themselves being so delivered by the direct and indirect influence of bhakti. "Women are mentioned in this verse because of the social impediment to their study of the Vedas in times gone by, as well as the fact that a woman's birth can subject one to the kind of repression they have suffered from over the centuries. "Merchants are notorious for being untruthful, and the laborers for their lack of interest in and qualification for scriptural study. Regardless of the socioreligious position of all of the above, Krsna does not withhold himself from them should they try to love him. Indeed, they will surpass others of greater material qualification who take paths other than bhakti and attain the highest destination." The spiritual position is that everyone - men and women - should be submissive to Krsna. If, for example, in a married relationship, the wife is more submissive to Krsna, her husband should follow her. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu found that Muknunda's son, Raghunandana, was more Krnsa conscious than his father, he considered Raghunandana the father and Mukunda the son. Interested parties can search back issues of Sanga by going to: http://www.eScribe.com/religion/sanga/

Dear JN, At this point it would be best for you to take the humble position like Bhakti Caru Swami and retract your previous statements. Anyway I don't suppose you will because they seem very deep rooted. Perhaps the result of years of negative propaganda you heard from the GBC or the rtvik camp about Swami Tripurari and Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Anyway at this point I will address your charges with Swami's own words from sanga. Readers can decide for themselves if they are the dangerous deviations you say they are or continual revelation in line with the teachings of Sri Rupa and Sanatana that I believe they are. Hare Krishna, BDas ON SHIVA AS THE GREATEST VAISNAVA Q. You said in a previous Sanga that the Bhagavatam's glorification of Lord Siva is progaganda. I cannot accept this. How can this be? A. I am simply explaining the truth about the statement in the Bhagavatam, 'vaisnavanam yatah sambhu.' Siva is not the greatest Vaisnava. Thus, this statement is propaganda, and this was the stated opinion of Om Visnupada B.R. Sridhara Deva Gowami Maharaja as well. In the Bhagavatam Siva represents jnana misra bhakti, as revealed by Sanatana Goswami in Brihat Bhagavatamrita. The fact that some Gaudiyas see him in other ways is another subject. He was posted at the gate of the rasa stahli. He was not allowed the priviledge of serving Radha in manjari svarupa. Those who do this, they are the greatest Vaisnavas. This is the message of Srimad Bhagavatam. If you do not accept this line of reasoning, how will you explain the verse that follows this one (vaisnavanam yatah sambhu), wherein it is stated that Kasi is the highest of holy places (ksetranam caiva sarvesam yatah kasi hy anuttamam)? This too is propaganda! Bhagavatam teaches that Vrindavan is the holiest place, not Kasi. These statements come in the section in which the Bhagavatam is being glorified. The Bhagavatam is saying that as the Ganga is the greatest of rivers, Acyuta the greatest God, Siva the greatest Vaisnava, Bhagavatam is the greatest Purana. Here Siva is distinguished from Visnu and described as his devotee, as no other Purana points out so clearly. Siva is a Vaisnava! Indeed, he is the greatest Vaisnava, and his place, Kasi, the holiest tirtha. This is propaganda. Let the Saivaites become Vaisnavas, and let discussion of the Bhagavata take place in Kasi, where practically everyone is a mayavadi and no on is interested in the Bhagavatam! This is what the Bhagavatam is saying in the verse under discussion.

Dear JN, Here is somethng about your stupid charge that Swami Tripurari ruined Iskcon. You will find that Bhakti Curu Swami had the integrety to change his position after consideration of the facts. And Swami Tripurari has been outside of what you called the "mess of Iskcon" for 20 years. You have had ample time so what have you done to clean up the mess? Bhakti Caru Swami and Book Distribution "If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all the horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous." January, 15, 2001 From Bhakti Caru Swami's Email conference, Istagosthi. "Srila Prabhupada was once told about Tripurari Swami selling a book to a lady by telling her that the book was about the power shortage in California?" Guru Maharaja (Bhakti Caru Swami) said, "I don't know in what context Srila Prabhuada was told that. These are misconceptions that caused so much damage to our society. In my opinion Tripurari caused the most damage to ISKCON. He destroyed book distribution. He introduced lying, changing up, cheating...and if he is so dear to Srila Prabhupada and loves Srila Prabhupada so much, then why did he leave him? Why did he leave ISKCON? These are not personalities to follow. I know that Srila Prabhupada was a very honest and noble man." ---------------------- Response from Brahma das, January 20, 2001 Dear Bhakti Caru Swami, Regarding the comments above posted on your Email Conference about Sripad Swami B.V. Tripurari and book distribution. These comments reflect sectarian consciousness at its worst. If Swami Tripurari were a Guru in ISKCON you would not have singled him out. Being outside ISKCON makes him a convenient scapegoat. How book distribution affected the popular appeal of ISKCON began long before anyone named Tripurari was generally known. I joined the movement in 1972. I walked in the temple with sleeping bag in hand at 9am and by 11am I was in the street selling BTGs, long hair and all. Even then people did not want to be bothered and they mostly just tried to avoid us. We chanted and that sometimes drew a crowd but people never lined up to buy books with money in hand like they did in India. Prabhupada set up the movement around book distribution. We were forced to sell books to support the temples. Every day on book distribution we faced a hostile crowd. If we met a few favorable people it made our day. And this was back in 1972. On top of the local pressure to sell books, Prabhupada wanted money for the India projects and funded them through the BBT. Prabhupada knew we needed some grandeur to be widely appreciated in India and he meant to accomplish this by impressive projects. At the same time his hardback books were piling up in the warehouses. When Tripurari das brahmacari along with others developed the techniques to sell them Prabhupada was ecstatic. He named Tripurari Maharaja "the incarnation of book distribution" and ordered him to train us all to sell his books. You allude that Prabhupad did not know what was going on in the airports and how his books were being sold. This is not a fact. Swami Tripurari was in constant contact with Prabhupad and explained to him in detail the activities at the airport. Apart from that a number of leaders complained to Prabhupada about the techniques the distributors used and that the public was being alienated by book distribution. Prabhupad dismissed all their objections and strongly brought any dissidents into line. And you should note he never chastised Tripurari Maharaja in any way about his techniques what to speak of the things you say about him. As a matter of fact Prabhupada often talked and laughed about how the books were being sold and even mentioned the energy crises incident above. Tripurari Maharaja taught the devotees how to present that the solution for every material problem from anxiety to world crises was solved in Prabhupada's books. This did not require lying because it is a fact. Eventually all leaders enlisted Maharaja to train the book distributors in their temple or zone. And in spite of complaints from the public and still from some devotees, Prabhupada pushed us even more. Around 1976 he wrote, "Practically I am whipping them to sell books." Personally, I was also concerned about public perception so in a Vrndavana darshan I said to Prabhupad, "I think the people don't like that we are bothering them to buy our books and asking them for money." Prabhupad replied something like, "Yes, we are giving them a book about Krishna, taking their money and using it to build this beautiful temple.Then we are inviting them all to come and enjoy it. But instead they want to keep their money, build themselves a palace, and put a fence around it and then post a sign that says 'nobody can come in.' So who is in the superior position?" From this it was clear to me that Prabhupada knew we were alienating people but he was willing to accept this in order to get the books out, support the temples and build the India projects. And it was evident that he trusted Tripurari Maharaja enough to personally give him sannyas over the objections of the GBC who wanted him to follow the mandatory two year wait called for in their resolutions. Looking at all this in hindsight, I agree there were excesses and we could have done things better. But even if Miss Manners herself had personally trained us in book distribution etiquette, people would still have complained and fewer books would have been sold. No one likes being continuously bothered for money and that is what we did. At the time of Prabhupada's departure the Western public generally saw us as little more than a bunch of pushy, begging religious zealots. It was after Prabhupada was gone, when the great guru scandals hit the press that public perception changed from considering us simply pushy zealots to seeing the Hare Krishnas as a religious Mafia. And now just when those old scandals were beginning to be forgotten the worst scandal of all has erupted about the schools. If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all these horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous. We should consider what ISKCON would have been like with no book distribution. ISKCON would have consisted of neophyte devotees performing sankirtana and chanting japa while living in whatever small centers they could afford by selling incense and a few books to stores. Although there is nothing wrong with this picture spiritually, it was simply not Prabhupada's idea of dynamic preaching. The grand projects that established ISKCON in India, the farms and beautiful temples in the West, as well as the prestigious international BBT with its various departments would not exist, as we know them today. Seeing things from this view I am confident that Prabhupada knew what he wanted and did what he had to do in order to see his books distributed and his great movement established. If public perception was the most important ideal to consider, than I don't believe Prabhupada would have sent us all out into the streets and airports to bother people to buy books. I was one of those early airport distributors trained personally by Swami Tripurari. I never once regretted this service I had the privilege to perform for His Divine Grace and neither do most book distributors I know. Your sharp words against Swami Tripurari and book distribution are an insult to all that struggled under those adverse conditions to sell Prabhupada's books. Those words should be rethought and retracted because they are untrue and reflect your incomplete knowledge of Prabhupada's feelings on the subject. Maharaja, I remember you as a very nice person with a good heart. You should also consider how those words affect the feelings of all those devotees who gave so much of themselves to fulfilling Prabhupada's desire. It is now almost thirty years after we first began the great push to sell Bhagavad-gitas and Srimad Bhagavatams in the airports and malls of America. It was not an easy task but we did it and still most of us consider those book distribution days the best days of our lives. Respectfully, Brahma Das ====================== The name of the conference is: BCS Istagosthi Bhakti Caru Swami 25-Jan-01 BCS Istagosthi Dear readers, Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I just got to know that the above statement (pertaining to Swami Tripurari) was printed in one of the writings by my secretary, Candrasekhar Acarya dasa. I feel extremely embarrassed that such a statement was broadcast in public. I am also extremely embarrassed that I made a statement like this. A godbrother of mine, Brahma Prabhu, wrote the above letter after reading what I said. I am very thankful to him for correcting me. I also want to request you all not to harbor any negative opinion about Tripurari Maharaja due to my statement about him. As a matter of fact, I am in no position to say such a thing about him. During the early days of ISKCON, he was a great hero of our sankirtan movement. He was one of the pioneers of book distribution and he achieved a lot for Srila Prabhupada. From Brahma Prabhu's letter it will become obvious. It is a pity that I forgot about all the wonderful things that Tripurari Maharaj achieved for Srila Prabhupada and made such a derogatory statement about him. I feel extremely embarrassed about my mentality and dealings. I beg forgiveness from all the Vaisnavas whom I have offended by saying such a statement. Bhakti Charu Swami ------------------------------- January 25, 2001. Dear Prabhus and Maharajas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. With straw in my mouth, I prostrate myself at the lotus feet ofHis Holiness Tripurari Maharaja and all the Vaisnavas who feel offended about my reckless and most stupid statement in the BCS istagosthi. I recieved the greatest chastisement from my spiritual master after he found out that I had posted this statement (which he regrets deeply, as evident in his own letter of apology posted on the conference yesterday.). I have already been punished by his words, and I pray to you all not to hold a grudge against me, because without the forgiveness and good wishes of the Vaisnavas, how can I go on in spiritual life? Again, I offer my respectful obeisances to you, your Holiness Tripurari Maharaja, as well as to all the Vaisnavas who felt offended by this statement. I remain, Yours in the service of Nityananda Prabhu (the forgiver of the foolish), Candrasekhar Acarya dasa, (BCS Istagosthi Conference Secretary) Dear Bhakti Caru Swami, I appreciated your response to my letter regarding Tripurari Swami and book distribution. In my estimation your response is in the best tradition of Vaisnava behavior and reveals the level of your devotion and purity of heart. It is a wonderful example to all devotees of how we should rectify our mistakes as well as see beyond any limited sectarian or political vision. Your humble words have turned everything around and now you can only be praised and appreciated for your saintly character. These words are sure to endear you to everyone including myself as well as Tripurari Swami who told me he was impressed by the level of sincerity found in your reply. In this regard Srila Sridhar Maharaja, my siksa guru once said,” Vaisnavism is the opposite of mundane politics. Mundane politicians gain position by degrading the position of others and accentuating their own position. Where-as in Vaisnavism we gain position by giving respect and position to others and we lose our position by criticizing or finding fault in others.” Therefore in my opinion, we should take all that happened here as a lesson in Vaisnava character and love. And how love along with mutual respect can transcend all differences and is a blessing to all. Hare Krishna Sincerely, Brahma Das

Dear Maitreya, It appears you do not agree with this point: (Those persons who cannot be celibate are advised to avoid promiscuity and make a commitment with a single partner.) M: This is a point of contention. Advised by whom? BD: This is common sense advised by anyone who wants to see people advance in KC or even just be better human beings. M: Commitment means marriage. BD: There are many kinds of commitments. Some couples live together all their lives without ever getting married. M: Please give an example of a bona fide guru advising homos to become committed to each other as 'man and wife' till death due you part, in sickness and in health etc. That is what commitment entails. BD: I don’t know any Gaudiya Guru who has gone on record in favor of formal Gay marriage. However personally I am not completely against the idea. Cultural standards will vary and adjust according to the times. The important principal in my opinion is to encourage everyone in Krishna conscious regardless of the culture they are in. Prabhupad did this when he permitted men and women to live together in the temples. Some devotees in India initially found this shocking but now few are shocked. M: It is your use of the word commitment that bothers me. A back door approach to gain acceptance of homo marriage. BD: Ok, be bothered. Some people might be bothered by remarks you made about your own promiscuous lifestyle. The question I have is a promiscuous heterosexual devotee lifestyle better than a committed relationship between two homosexual devotees? I believe the answer is found in each individual situation. Anyone who actually develops Love of God is the best devotee. M: Do you see what you are saying BDas.I think you do.I think this is a well thought out campaign. BD: Obviously, I have thought about this issue but campaigning about it has not been my obsession. M: Actual guru would advise someone in that position to wind down his involvement with homosexuality as soon as possible, not commit to it. BD: Neither one of us are familiar with the opinions of every “actual” guru. The opinions of Gaudiya gurus vary on issues of relative importance and both Bhaktivinode and BSST taught that we must present KC according to time and place. BSST said that the promotion of the Bhakti ideal requires proper adjustment. M: Nice try though. BD: Thanks, maybe I will try again later. Hare Krishna. BDas