Mazhar

I think I have explained this but I will do it again. The black stone is nothing but just a part of kaaba. The black stone is a part of kaaba, you cannot say that black stone and kaaba are different and kaaba is there because we offer salaah in its direction. We do not worship kaaba nor we worship Allah through kaaba, as I said we do not need kaaba to remember Allah, it is just our direction and pplce to perform hajj. 1. No muslim keeps kaaba in his house or in mosque, there is only one kaaba in the world and it is for direction. If we would need kaaba to worship Allah, every muslim would keep it in his house and in mosques. 2. At the time of prophet muhammad pbuh, the followers used to give azaan (call to prayers) on the top of kaaba i.e. they use to stand on kaaba to give azaan. No idol worshiper would stand on the idol. 3. When we offer salaah, we do not see kaaba, we see at a place where we prostrate. And a person who is not living in mecca offcourse does not see it at all. We just stand towards it.

Do you think that we repeat Allah's names in some kind of sound vibration?If your answer is yes then we do not call Allah with any sound vibration for example I am reciting "Allah" on beads then I am just reciting it, there is no sound or music in the background. If you want to know how we recite, I can record the sound and send you the file.

Actually i was reading it very fast, now i will read it carefully.

If it is out of context brother then you give the context to me.

Brother Thiest I did not understand your point completely. Make it short please. Thanks

Brother Islam is not 1400 years old and prophet muhammad is not the founder of islam. Islam is there since man came on earth i.e. from the time of Hazrat Adam pbuh, and He was the first messenger of God. Prophet muhammad pbuh is the last and final messenger of God for whole of humanity and Quran is the last book which is for the whole human kind. Kaaba is not the symbol of Allah. It is made for a direction and that's it.

Brother, what you should care about is that the quotation is right or wrong? Why you care about from where I got the translation? If it is wrong then tell me it is wrong.

Brother, Kaafir means a person who does not beleive in Islam i.e. non muslim. So Kaafir and non-muslim have same meaning. Do u mind if i call u a non-muslim? offcourse, no. My intention is not to heart any one.

Brother, I am not compelling any hindu to beleive what i say. I am telling you the verses of your own books. I am not giving my own opinion. I am translating your books If you think I am wrong then correct me brother. I am here for a peaceful dicussion.

It is not insult to God, God made us with some deficiencies, if He wanted to , He could make us perfect. Imperfect means that we fal ill, we got older and older every day, we get tired, etc. Sometimes we have some diseases. Allah made us like that because Allah wants to test us, this lie is test for the hereafter. If I have a misconception then remove it. I am peaceful.

But vedas are more superior among hindu scriptures. And Yadurveda says: "They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti (means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.)." [Yajurveda 40:9]

There are any choices what to repeat and pray on beads like we may call 1 of 99 names of Allah or we may pray for prophet muhammad (pbuh) (which is called Durood in Islam) or we may recite any verse of Quran, etc.

In Islam there is no symbol of Allah, there are signs or indications of Allah.

Can you quote me some verses in which God orders you to worship him in the murti forms?

I think brother you need to know the concept of God in Islam. In short, we muslims worship Allah directly. we do not need any idol, or any stone or anything to worship Him. We see His creation, we see the sun, moon, sky, ourselves and the whole universe and they are all the signs of Allah, not the symbol of Allah. We worship the creator not created.

Brother, if everyone will choose his own direction then where is the unity? Islam is the religion of peace. When we offer salaah, we stand shoulder to shoulder so that we love each other, and we can stand like that when we have same direction. Other thing is that we only face towards kaaba for salaah i.e. namaaz and if you want to ask something from Allah or pray to him, here pray means to ask for something, then you can do it in any direction.

Brother I am a Muslim and Muslim means a person who submits his will to God. So I will do what my Allah told me to do. We human beings are created by Allah and we are imperfect but Allah is perfect, he does not need anyone, but we need him. so you saying that I will worship God as I see fit is unacceptable and no hindu will agree with you if he is a good hindu.

The quran was ordered and was written down completely at the time of prophet muhammad (pbuh). abu bakr (pbuh) and other followers of prophet muhammad (pbuh) compile the quran into a book. Previously, the verses were written but was not compiled. So quran is in his original form and will always be as Allah promises in Quran for its protection.

Now here is clear explanation: We muslims face towards the kaaba because it is the order of Allah in Quran. Kaaba is our direction to pray to Allah and thats it. We do not worship kaaba nor we worship Allah through kaaba. The best proof is that we do not see kaaba when we are praying. When we offer Salaah, our eyes are at the place where we prostrate and not on kaaba. We do not need the picture of kaaba to worship Allah. We do not remember Allah through kaaba. In short, we do not worship kaaba nor we worship Allah through kaaba. It is just a direction and we muslims did not select it with our own choice, but Allah ordered us in the Quran to face the kaaba. I hope it is clear now.

Are you trying to say that we worship kaaba, please tell me exactly what are you trying to say? Ask clearly.

Yes, kaaba is the house of Allah, but not in the sense that Allah lives here or it does not mean that we worship kaaba. As regards Hajra-e-Aswad, neither is it right hand of Allah nor it is sign of presence of Allah. You saying that is unauthentic. I do not know any verse of Quran or any saying of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) saying that. So it is wrong. Infact Hazrat Umar (pbuh) said that "This stone can neither benefit me nor can harm me, but I am kissing it only because prophet Muhammad (pbuh) kissed it."

Oh, yes, thanks for correction, it is circumambulation not circumcizing..

Good question brother! We pray to Allah (Salaah) in Mosque. In mosque we pray together. So if no diection is specified, some one will say, lets pay towards east, some one wil say, towards west and etc. And for the sake of argument, if a mosque chooses a direction, then there will be lot of different directions each mosque will be choosing. So, for unity, a direction has been specified to pray towards it.

Brother thiest, Kaaba is a qibla i.e. direction towards which muslims pray. If some one wants to pray, in which direction will he should pray? some wil say north, south, some will say east, and etc so Allah has decided that you will pray towards kaaba. So, we pray towards kaaba and not to kaaba. It is also for unity. And we circumcize it because it is the order of Allah. Circumcizing has lot of benefits..for example lacs of muslims go for hajj every year and circumsize the kaaba and it increases the unity and it shows that every one is equal...when we perform hajj, every performer wear same clothes so it removes every distinction..and teaches us that everyone is equal and no white is better than black, no rich is better than poor, no arabic is better than non-arabic and vice versa. You cannot recognize whether the person performing the hajj is beggar or king. So in Islam, Kaaba is just a direction to pray.

Thanks brother thiest for the clarification. I aso want to discuss similarities. As Quran says that " come to common terms". So, I want to discuss ith you the similarities, first we should beleive and act what is common As regards differences, we will see them tomorrow. You said that God has no form, and that we cannot see him and that God has not made of materialstic thing, and you are right. What I understand from you is that Hindus need idols in their initial stages and then they do not need it. But brother if you analyse, God himself does not want us to worship the idols, as I wrote the article. Idol worship is prohibited in both Hinduism and Islam. I sincerely request my hindu brothers and sisters to analyse the verses and do not just stick to what you beleive.