melvin

Yes. That's a real problem of general Biblical texts. There are (too) many inconsistencies in the different accounts from different authors. One testimony may state: "For in him we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28), yet in another, the same Lord Jesus Christ exclaims: "My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?" (Mark 15:34). But don’t you think this could be similar to the confusion between Krishna the Absolute Truth, the Cause of all causes, and Krishna avatar the cowherd's boy?

You have the intelligence, Primate, sifting the chaff from the grain.

Apparently then the Catholics have taken to a type of demigod worship. No where has Jesus Christ instructed to do this. But hey why should they let that stop them. Forget the fact that Jesus said we can not worship the things of the material world and Love God at the same time;" No man can have two masters..."

 

 

My point here is that the Santo Nino de Cebu isn`t a demigod but God himself. Why the Catholics call the Holy Child of Cebu saint confuses me. The Catholic Church maybe have found it difficult to deny Krsna is the Santo Nino least she denies Jesus is the Christ. To solve this problem the Vatican may have commissioned ISKCON to look for scribes who`ll do research quoting verses from the Bible and Srimad Bhagavatam with identical contexts. I know because I was one of the few recruited by ISKCON. Trikalajna Prabhu of ISKCONDC sent me in the early 2000 a copy of this confidential syncrethization plan. This was when ISKCONDC knew from my post in her website`s discussion forums that my eldest son, Matthew have decided to enter the priesthood which later became moot and academic not going through with it when I found Matthew have lost the desire to continue his studies in the seminary.

Actually, Vaishnavism and Christianity may have the doctrine of monistic theism or panentheism in common. All Vaishnava schools are panentheistic and view the universe as part of Krishna or Narayana, but see a plurality of souls and substances within Brahman. Panentheism or monistic theism, which includes the concept of a personal God as a universal, omnipotent Supreme Being who is both immanent and transcendent, is prevalent within many other schools of Hinduism as well. And this also appears to be the Christian position:

So, Vaishnavism and Christianity are simultaneously one and yet they differ. While both play, for example, the same song say, God consciousness, it`s Krsna who is the composer while Christ is the singer.

So it is clear that for transcendentalists any vedic rituals that are aimed at satisfying some demigod for material gain hold no attraction because they are not interested in obtaining material things. So we can lay such instructions aside irrespective if they come labeled "vedic" or not.

Catholics worship saints for material benefit, except the Santo Nino de Cebu, who is worshiped by transcendentalists to achieve liberation and non-transcendentalists for material gain.The Holy Child of Cebu is God Himself and yet Catholics call Him a saint. There must be a reason why.

The Main issue is eternal hell.Unbeleivers of Krishna don't go to eternal hell as per Bhagavadgita.

 

But, As per Bible Unbelievers of Jesus(Son of God) goes to eternal hell.

I guess that`s what you call TWO SIDES OF THE COIN.

Krishna himself says so;In bhagavad gita.

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There`s no Krsna-Prasadam available here in Cebu City. There used to exist a Govinda restaurant in the heart of the city. But it disappeared. There used to be a Hare Krsna temple in Mandaue City, the city next to Cebu City, but it can nowhere be found. I know because I used to go there and partake the delicious Krsna Prasadam which the devotees at the temple offer to the public during Sundays. All we have now is the Host we take during Holy Communions inside the Catholic Church every Sunday.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with the context that we were talking in.

Oh, you mean Krsna is everything. Yes, I believe, Theist, Krsna is everything. It`s because I have faith in what He says in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. Krsna`s credibility is beyond question. But tell that to an atheist. Primate, I believe, has the expertise to tell the atheists that God does exists. By explaining to them according to his scientific views on the nature of the Absolute Truth. Once the atheists are convinced with Primate`s explanation. We blast them to smiteerens with Krsna consciousness.

That sounds quite reasonable, Melvin.

Those were from the lyrics of the song, I BELIEVE, Primate. Hope we could sing that song in duet.

This obviously can't be true, Melvin, because an avarage flower contains considerably more water than an average drop of rain..

Primate, I believe, too, that somewhere in the darkest night, a candle glows.

It is not possible to continue to eat meat ---after taking (honoring) Krishna-Prasadam.

That`s why I said sorry. I still eat meat after taking Prasadam or Holy Communion.

You should, Bhaktajan, try your luck staying in prison from 8am to 4pm, Monday to Friday. The Governor of Cebu assigned me, from May 15, 2007 up to the present, as the physician of 1000 or more dancing inmates confined in CPCRC. Maybe, you will get to know what real suffering is.

Link: www.youtube.com/cpdrc

True, But they are not going to suffer in Eternal hell for not believing in Krishna

 

 

My View: Who says so? An abortionist life after life will be the recipient of a never-ending abortion. This is eternal hell.

 

 

 

Lust eventually leads to love and anger eventually leads to realization; at least in majority of cases .

 

 

My View: Maybe. But only after you have served sentence for rape and murder.

 

 

 

No sir, its not like that.

 

You know a lot about Krshna from Srila Prabhupad's books and associaiting with his disciples.

So please correct me if i say anything wrong here :

 

My View: Prabhupada`s books were delievered to me even without asking. It just came after my childhood friend Gauransundara das lent me the books because he wanted to share them to me.

 

The question is whether we have the desire to give up attachment to fish and meat. That's a spiritual desire of ahimsa, to please Krshna's senses. Then Krshna will respond. Only then the journey will begin. He will make the seemingly impossible possible. But if the desire is not there, or worse, the belief that its OK to eat meat , then He will leave the person alone to his/her karmic cycle and destiny.

 

My View: My Catholic upbringing made me believe it`s not a sin to eat anything. What comes from the heart like lust and anger is a sin. Christ Jesus ate fish and drank wine.

 

You know better than to say that people can eat all the meat and ask Jesus to forgive. I know that's not what you are saying but many Christians do.

 

My View: Yes. I want Christ to forgive me for eating fish. I want Allah to forgive me for eating pork. I want you to forgive me for eating beef. May the plants and vegetables forgive you, too, for eating their fruits and leaves.

 

If Jesus wants Christians not to harbour the 6 enemies (anger lust greed jealousy ...) ,

Indulgence or attachment to fish or meat is

1. lust (kAm)

2. Participation in violence to other living beings in a fairly high order on the animal hierarchy.

 

My View: After having said from the above view. I might as well not eat anything. I`ll just drink milk and water to survive.

 

 

By His Yogic power, Jesus attracted all the fish and liberated them. Then they became food for the crowd.

 

My View: There`s a saying," practice what I preach but don`t follow what I do in private."

 

Jesus was God Conscious and knew the Self.

 

My View: If Jesus was Krsna conscious, he would not have drank wine.

 

Whenever Bible says He ate fish or lamb, it was to please His fellowmen and stay within norms. His priority was to be accessible to the masses and Jesus and some of His disciples were austere and detached. THey held meetings around grapes and bread.

 

My View: I don`t like to be a vegetarian to please you. It`ll come in time if Krsna wants me to be a vegetarian. He can do anything He pleases.

 

There seems to be a lot of hidden meaning in Jesus's parables.

 

His angry reaction outside the Jewish Temple. What was His message ? "You want to eat meat ? Just kill it and eat it. Don't do the pretend sacrifice rituals. They are of no use." He hated pretense and hypocrasy. He just showed that KRshna gives free will. That did not mean its the right way for individual soul's and living beings' welfare.

 

My View: Jesus only got mad when he saw his Father`s temple being made into a marketplace. Jesus message was LOVE. It was not about eating meat. The latter wasn`t his priority.

 

 

If you pray to Krshna to develop the desire to give up these attachments, He will help you.

 

My View: I will remove from my memory the word DESIRE. It`s the cause why I have these attachments.

 

But if anyone harbours desire for the fish and meat, Krshna is so kind He will make sure its on the menu.

 

My View: I have remove finally the word DESIRE from my memory.

 

SB 11.3.3: Śrī Antarīkṣa said: O mighty-armed King, by activating the material elements, the primeval Soul of all creation has sent forth all living beings in higher and lower species so that these conditioned souls can cultivate either sense gratification or ultimate liberation, according to their desire.

 

My View: May that wonderful flute player of Vrndavan remind me to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare life after life.

 

Purport : In the last para, Jiva Goswami comments on SB 10.82.7 in context of this verse -11.3.3.

"The Lord created the intelligence, senses, mind and vital air of the living beings for sense gratification, for performing sacrifices to attain higher births, and ultimately for offering sacrifices to the Supreme Soul." (SB10.82.7)

According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, the actual purpose of the Lord's creation is only one: to facilitate the advancement of devotional service to the Lord Himself. Although it is stated that the Lord facilitates sense gratification, it should be understood that the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not ultimately condone the foolishness of the conditioned souls. The Lord facilitates sense gratification (mātrā-prasiddhaye) so that the living entities will gradually understand the futility of trying to enjoy without Him. Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedic literature the Lord gives a regulative program so that the living beings can gradually exhaust their tendencies to be foolish and learn the value of surrender unto Him. The Lord is undoubtedly the reservoir of all beauty, bliss and satisfaction, and it is the duty of every living entity to engage in the loving service of the Lord. Although there are apparently two purposes for creation, it should be understood that ultimately the purpose is one. The arrangement for sense gratification is ultimately meant to bring the living entities to the single purpose of going back home, back to Godhead.

 

MY View: Going home back to Godhead actually means being able to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare without any impediments.

 

 

 

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Once you are detached from these foods, Krshna might appoint you as the pioneer advocating vegetarianism in your community. To have the Chinese restaurant offer more vegetarian dishes. To bring veg recipes , started kits to homes. To assure them how veg diet can be complete.

 

My View; There used to be a Govinda restaurant in our place. But it disintegrated into thin air. And the Hare Krsna temple in Pagsabungan Road, Basak , Mandaue City, Cebu can no longer be found.

 

 

"Vegetarian advocacy is a form of Christian stewardship and discipleship, because vegetarianism honors God by showing respect for God’s environment, animals, and humans. When our lives honor God, we feel closer to God and spiritually more fulfilled. So, encouraging people to try vegetarianism is offering a gift, for them as well as for the rest of Creation."

- Christian Vegetarian Association : Christianity and Vegetarianism - Christian Vegetarian Association

 

 

 

My View: I`m supposed to be an advocate of vegetarianism because I`m a physician myself. But I failed.

 

I wish you and your family all the best.

 

 

Thank you so much Smaranamji for being very concerned and thoughtful. I hope your advocacy in vegetarianism succeeds where my failure to do so ends.

 

Pranam.

Hare Krshna

 

God Bless

Haribol

 

 

 

Krishna says everything. The modes of nature are also Krishna. A rock on the ground is also Krishna in one sense.

Yes, Krsna is everything. But the things He created are subject to the modes of material nature. Even a brahmana is subject to the mode of goodness. We are all subject to the modes of material nature. Only the Supersoul(Krsna) and Time( Kalpataru) are not subject to the modes of material nature.

Healthy dose of Lust is required for propagation of life.Anger is a natural reaction.

 

My View: There`s a saying: Forgive the sinner not the sin. Without lust, Adam and Eve wouldn`t have committed the sin of pre-marital sex. Without anger, Cain would have not killed his brother, Abel.

How they are sins?.

 

My View: It`s a sin to lustfully oogle at a devi dasi. It`s a sin to angrily stare at a Vaishnava.

 

If the above impulses are excessive and uncontrolled one may be inclined to do bad things and hence SIN.

 

My View: Yes, precisely! Lust eventually begets rape. And anger ultimately reaps murder.

 

Plenty of people can control their impulses without believing in Jesus.

 

 

My View: Yes. Plenty of people, too, can control their lust and anger without believing in Krsna.

 

 

Finally, in discussing the true nature of reality, it is pointless to base an argument on belief. When an argument is based on true statements about reality, any conclusion that is logically derived from it will also be true. Thus we obtain knowledge of reality and not just speculation.

I believe, Primate, for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows.

Yes but not just time, everything.

The Supersoul and Time are not subject to the modes of material nature. That doesn`t include everything.

 

Here is Mark

 

Mark 16:16 (kjv)

 

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned..

 

 

It looks like a done deal.

 

 

 

 

Krishna or Shiva(rudra) don't condemn you to eternal hell if you worship other gods.You pretty well know that.

 

 

 

 

Now getting back to the original question.

 

 

Saved from What?(as per bible)

 

 

Don't give missionary bs like Jesus is Prajapathi etc..

 

 

 

 

 

Saved from sin, like lust and anger

 

All states of being-be they of goodness, passion or ignorance-are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything-but I am independent. I am not under the modes of this material nature. BG 7.12

Krsna is within everyone as the Supersoul and without as Time.

My answer would be: "I only told you I believe I have a brain. I didn’t say that I know I have a brain"..

Where does belief come from? Does it come from knowing? Or knowing comes from believing? Even without seeing? How can a blind man distinguish the real from the unreal? Does he have to touch it to know and believe it`s real? What if the blind man has Hansen`s disease(leprosy)? How will he know what the object is when the blind man can`t even feel if what he`s touching is rough or smooth, hot or cold?

When Sukadeva Goswami preached Srimad Bhagavatam to Maharaja Pariksit everyone who heard Sukadeva were enlightened about God. The audience didn`t see or touch God to know God after hearing Sukadeva Goswami yet they believed what they heard.

Similarly, you have to believe the drug your doctor gives you if you want to be healed of a disease. If you don`t take the drug, both you and your doctor will never know what your disease was. Knowldege is obtained from the results of the drug you took. If you got well, then your doctor`s impression was correct. If not, then it`s time you have to look for a new one.

The bottom line, Primate, is whether if you believe or not what your informant tells you. We only believe what the informant says if it`s authorized. It`s a matter of being credible or not. If not then the informant`s views is simply incredible.

Even an atheist is dependent on God for everything he knows. Without God we could not even remeber our own names.

Yes, Theist. There was once upon a time I felt so inadequate why I can`t memorize and quote verses from scriptures like the others do. Or why I can`t simply interpret an ECG tracing. Maybe I didn`t study well when I was in med school or maybe I just couldn`t understand what our teacher in cardiology taught us. Until I read in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna is the cause of our forgetfulness, remembrance and intelligence.

Well, before I would give Mrs X my money for the operation of Mr X, I would like to know if Mr X actually has to be operated. Mr X is in the ICU, but Mr X’s condition may have been stabilized, and Mr X may in fact be likely to leave hospital within a few days. Of course you can ask the physician responsible for the treatment of Mr X, but he may have struck a deal with Mrs X to split your money among themselves. There’s only one way to be sure. You must examine Mr X yourself in order to acquire true knowledge.

 

My View: But what if I`m not allowed to examine Mr X inside the ICU? Your Mr X story is a catch 22, Primate. Actually, it all boils down to who gave us the information if indeed Mr X is seriously ill. Seeing Mr X confined in the ICU and his doctor telling me Mr X`s real situation is knowledge. Not true knowledge for the doctor could be wrong in his impression. True knowledge is obtained if Mr X undergoes an operation. In fact, there are many doctors who thought their patients had acute appendicitis after a very thorough laboratory and physical examination only to be mistaken when they opened their patient`s abdomen and found the appendices to be normal.

 

And Thomas didn’t belief Jesus Christ had risen, even after seeing his wounds. He first needed to examine the wounds with his own hands. Then he knew..

 

 

My View: Apostle Thomas got lucky he was allowed by Jesus to touch his wounds. This reminds me of a joke. Guy 1 to Guy 2, " Do you believe you have a brain?" Guy 2 to Guy 1, Yes!" Guy 1 to Guy 2, " If you believe you have a brain, can you see and touch your brain?":)

 

 

 

Very nice. Where can I find that statement by Narada Melvin. It is a nice citation.

It can be found, Theist, in the book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 18 Conversations with Prakasananda page 203. ( 1974, 1981 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust) Philippine Copyright 1981.

A pure devotee of Krsna, Theist, doesn`t care for any public opinion about himself. Because his only business, by Srila Narada`s example, is teaching others how to finally go home Back to Godhead. In the Narada Pancaratra it is stated: That all Vedic rituals, mantras and conclusions are compressed into just 8 words, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare. Having reached this level of knowledge, a pure devotee like Narada Muni if you happen to see him chanting Hare Krsna, is a person who`s impervious to all sorts of things that surrounds him.