guliaditya

Again it is my humble request not to indulge in all these silly topics.

No one can gain anything out of it.

Rather discuss on Bhakta's charitra from which we all can learn something...

Please......

Pranaam

Aditya

Let's not start this debate again.Many a times this type of debate have already taken place in this forum.This is my humble request to all.

Pranaam

I hope so. ISKCON or no ISKCON success will be when everyone takes to the chanting of any one the hundreds and millions Holy Names of the Lord.

Very true Theistji......

If this happens then it will become a different world....

There will be no time left for hatredness or other sinful activities....

Pranaam

Respected devotees,

 

I wanted to Know who is the best knower of Brahman(Lord Naryana)

Lord Shiva is the best knower of Brahman.

This sloka is from the discourse given by Shree Bhishma to Yudhishithira

Pramaan from Bhagavatam.....

asyänubhävam bhagavän veda guhyatamam sivah

devarsir näradah säksäd bhagavän kapilo nrpa

O King, Lord Siva, Närada the sage amongst the demigods, and Kapila, theincarnation of Godhead, all know very confidentially about His glories throughdirect contact.

Narada Purana (63.121) says:

diksaya guru-murti-sthah sarvanugrahakah sivah

Through diksa, Shiva, the giver of all benedictions, is manifested in the form of the guru.

om namas te natha bhagavan sivaya guru-rupine Narada Purana (65.58):

I offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Shiva, who has assumed the form of guru.

I hope it is clear to you.

Pranaam

Aditya,

 

Yes it a basic realization. Sometimes we assume we can just ignore Paramatma in others and become Manjaris or Gopis instead. We try to find Krishna in Vrndavan while ignoring Him in our immediate neighbors.

 

Is this not a form of sahajism?

 

Sorry I cannot read devanagari. Please share that verse from the Gita in English for us westerners.

The verse is from chapter 7, sloka no 19.

Lord Kapila said:

 

SB 3.29.22 - One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramätmä, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23 - One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

SB 3.29.24 - My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

 

SB 3.29.25 - Performing his prescribed duties, one should worship the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead until one realizes My presence in his own heart and in the hearts of other living entities as well.

 

SB 3.29.26 - As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

SB 3.29.27 - Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.

Nice post Theistji,

The same is confirmed by Shree Krishna in Srimad Bhagavad Gita also.

This is the true knowledge.Such a self realised being is very rare.

Pranaam

good post Sarva Gattah.......

Felt sad by seeing the video of police kicking Krishna Devotee.Its Kaliyug....

Pranaam

Had to come back for this...it made me laugh because that is a typical Max Muller opinion.

 

Vedas say that Brahman is the Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer. That Being who creates, maintains and destroys is Vishnu. Shruti (Satapatha Brahmana, Mahopanishad, Rig Veda, Mahanarayana Upanishad) is overflowing with vakyas of NarayaNa creating Brahma, and Brahma creating by virtue of his indweller (NarayaNa).

 

NarayaNa Suktam hails NarayaNa as Para Brahmana and says 'NarayaNa is Brahma, Siva, Indra' (Sarira Sariri Bhava/Sarva Shabda Vachya should be used here). That ought to be enough.

 

The word 'NarayaNa' can only denote Brahman, as Appaya Dikshitar admitted. For instance, when we say 'Gita', we only think of Bhagavad Gita although other Gitas exist. When we say RamayaNa, we don't think of a guy named 'Ram Kumar', but only about Lord Rama.

 

Hence, NarayaNa alone is Brahman. There cannot be any 'stronger thesis' because NarayaNa cannot be relegated to a lesser deity. In fact, no need to go to Veda. Look at the Bhagavad Gita sloka wher Krishna talks about the vulnerability of Brahma.

 

Now, I shall really go. This debate is endless, and doubtless more people will come with new theories. It is to be hoped that they study Vaishnava Literature, formulate some constructive criticism, if possible, on the proofs provided by Sri Ramanuja's Vedant Sangraha and Sri Madhva's Vishnu Tattva Vinirnaya, and THEN, put forth their opinion.

Respected dark Warrior,

There is no need to post your opinion again & again.You have explained many times in a very logical way.As mentioned above, Bhagavad Gita alone is sufficient to prove your point.

Anyway, as usual nice post worth reading

Pranaam

OM TAT SAT VISHNUH PARAMAM PADAM (Rig Veda)

This sloka of Rig Veda cleary tell us that Vishnu is the supreme.Only by reaching to Vaikunth Dham we can get eternal bliss.The same is confirmed in Gita also.

Vaishnavanaam Yatha Shambhu (Srimad Bhagavat Mahapurana)

In this sloka VedVyas confirmed Lord Shiva to be supreme devotee.Lord Shiva is always immersed in Narayana Bhakti.

This is what I have to say.

Sorry for offending anyone's feelings.

Pranaam

Dear RadhaMukund,

i am sorry to say but you have not read the scriptures properly.

In Gita Shree Krishna Himself reveals that all the Lokas upto brahma loka are covered under maya & will vanish at the end of pralaya.Only Vaikunth is Nitya & so is Sreeman Narayana.Sreeman Narayan is the only GOD to be worshipped.

From the navel of Sreeman Narayana came Brahma, the first living entity.

Above all dont even say that Vishnu is a jiva like other devtas.

Pranaam

I totally agree, sometimes Dark do display some reasonings with substance.

This a clear example. He knows the scriptures well.

It is not sometimes rather it is every time.

I have not seen any one in this forum who is more learned than Dark Warrior.Conceptually he is very strong.This is my opinion.

Pranaam

I totally agree, sometimes Dark do display some reasonings with substance.

This a clear example. He knows the scriptures well.

Dark Warrior,

You are really very learned person.The way you have explained is amazing.

Worth reading many times.

U can get it at Ramkrishna Math.Try there.

Yes effects are clearly visible here like what I wrote in my 2 posts here.

Thank you

i had enough of this bullshit

shiva and vishnu and bramha are one in the vedas the paramatma is the supreme which is bramha,vishnu,and shiva as well as the shakti's in one.

the vedas say that if a person see's them as seperate and agrue which one is greater they are fools and would never see his face.

why a u agruing about who is better but i guess its the kal yug.

 

people dont make our beautifull culture lik that of christians were roman catholics are fighting the anglicans and they are fighting the rest.

 

come on man we have more important things to do.

Vishnu is the controller of maya where as Shiva & brahma are covered under maya. Only by surrendering to Vishnu we can come out of maya otherwise there is no other way.

As far as GOD concept is concerned then Sreeman Narayana is the only GOD.Rest all Devtas are HIS ansh.Lord Shiva is the best among devtas.Lord Shiva is the topmost vaishnava."Vaishnavanam yatha Shambhu" as confirmed by Srimad Bhagavatam.

Pranaam

Shvu, he was not agreeing with Theist. Guliaditya was saying that Theist refuses to accept the truth, meaning that Jesus is not linked to Vaishnavism in any way. He does not support Theist.

 

However, let me clear things up - For Thiest, cBrahma and the rest, even the words spoken by Srila Prabhupada in an interview is 'apaurusheya' and 'Veda'.

Thanks Dark Warrior

Truth is Sreeman Narayana.

Truth is HIS bhakti.

Truth is singing of HIS divine lilas.

Truth is Christianity is not comaparable to Vaishnavism.

Truth is follower of Jesus are not Vaishnavas.

This is what I meant by truth.

Gaurang Mahaprabhu told the essance of Vedas & other scriptures in 2 lines i.e.

Sab Sastra Ved Kahe Sambandh Abhideya Prayojan

Krishna, Krishna Bhakti, Krishna Prema.

Sambandh-Jiva has got eternal relationship with Krishna/Narayana

Abhideya-Bhakti of Narayana is the only path to Moksha/Eternal Bliss

Prayojan-Getting Krishna/Narayana divya prem.

This is the eternal truth.

Pranaam

Once again the quote cross-posted by Theist:

 

 

 

To which I asked in response the perfectly reasonable question: Where in the Vedas is it said that "the son is non-different from the father?"

 

To which Theist had only this to say:

 

 

 

Did anyone see in this an answer to the question posed?

Truth is very difficult to accept.

One thing is clear Dark Warrior.U have given enough evidence to prove your point but still peoples like Cbrahma are not ready to accept it.Actually they are not in a position to reply back to your points.I dont think it is advisable on your part to go further & explain them from Sri Vaishnava point of view.

No use of arguing with you.

 

But that does not mean I said yes to your thoughts.

 

Anyways, I'm happy that you are a devotee of Vishnu [The only thing I can agree with you is that he is the Supreme.]

There is only one path i.e. Bhakti marg

There is only one GOD i.e. Sreeman Narayana.

Surrendering to Sreeman Narayana with full faith & bhakti is the only way to moksha/eternal bliss.(Vasudeva Paro dharmah)

Apart from it there is not other path.

If you accept this then nothing is left for argument.

Pranaam.

What is your definition of the word Vaisnava dark. Can you elaborate further about that word please?

One who accepts Sreeman Narayana as supreme personality & do only HIS bhakti is a vaishanava.A vaishnava doesnt have any disrespect for other devtas as they are ansh of Narayana only.There are other qualities also which is present in a vaishnava.It is described in detail in Bhagavatam.

Dark warrior points are very logic & in line with our scriptures & acharyas.

Jesus is not a vaishnava.Hence followers of jesus cant be vaishnava.It is very surprising that we are comparing Vaishnavas to christians.

Pranaam

Mine is not just hinged on 'faith'. I have a knowledge of the major belief systems in the world, and noticed that Vedanta is the most intellectual and freedom allowing belief system to follow. I also noticed that Vaishnavism is the clearest exposition of Vedanta.

 

Having accepted this system as the best, it follows logically that one should accept everything that this faith offers. Hence, it is no blind faith, but rather, rational to accept the Avatars of the Lord as historical.

 

 

 

That is not what I meant by 'Avatara Rahasya'. It refers to the inner meanings of the Lord's pastimes.

 

For instance, few know the real purpose of Trivikrama's avatara. It was not to scale the world and defeat Mahabali. The Lord measured the Earth for the sole purpose of ensuring that each and every jivatma gets contact with His divine feet in the process. He blessed every single Jiva that day with His feet. This is the reason why He rose as Trivikrama and conquered the material vibhuti. Defeating Bali was just an excuse, a lila.

 

We would definitely have been present even at that time in some form or other, as a microbe, plant or animal. Certainly, we received the touch of Trivikrama's lotus feet then.

 

This is Avatara Rahasya.

 

And you wonder why people like cBrahma are saying that they feel as though their spiritual process is lacking (the thread on 'chanting')? Its because they have not let go of their attachments yet. And with this, I end further participation in this thread.

Very nicley presented.

You are very fortunate to have born in South India.You can read the Divya Prabhandham written in tamil.I am also very much attached but not able to find any source from where i can get all these either in English or Hindi.

Any way your posts are worth reading.

pranaam

Vaisnavas are Christians, so they must not try to convert Christians. Christians are Vaisnavaas, so they must not try to convert Vaisnavaas. Instead, they must be colaborate, even if they cannot aggree in everything. Not all Vaisnavaas agree in everything, there are many Vaisnava sects, e.g. the Swaaminaaraaya,naas, who differ in their idea about Krsna, but they are Vaisnavaas too, and their mantra, Swaaminaaraaya,na, is good. So Christians should be recognised as a Vaisnava sect, although they do not agree in everything. Our minds are deluded because we are in Kali yuga, so we cannot agree in everything, but all Vaisnava sects, who believe that God is love, including Christians, should ally. Otherwise, it is only fanaticism that works to empower Kali even more.

OM IIShA KR,S,NA!

How you can equate christians with Vaishnavas????

Whether any vaishnava sampradaya have accepted it????

A worshipper of Lord Shiva cannot be considered as Vaishnava then how come worshipper of Jesus can be considered as Vaishnava.

There are various vaishnava sect but all are worshipping Lord Narayana(Ram,Krishna,Vishnu).

Hence stop all this mental speculation.

Pranaam

oh I have another question... ... my religions teacher tried to explain dharma to us, but I'm kind of lost as to what it actually is. I know it roughly means a person's duty, but what is that determined by?

<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">" Sanatan Dharm is the universal religion of the Upnishads, Gita and the

Bhagwatam which Bharatvarsh has introduced for the whole world."</v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">The religion which eternally exists in God, which is revealed by God, which describes the names, forms, virtues and the abodes of God, and which reveals the true path of God realization for all the souls is called Sanatan Dharm, the universal religion for the whole world.

The word dharm is formed from the root word dhryan (dhryan dharne); it means such actions and such spiritual or religious practices that finally result in all-good for a soul.</v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"></v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">This abstract I have taken from writings of Jagadguru Kripaluji Maharaj.</v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"></v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">Pranaam</v:shapetype>

<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"></v:shapetype>