I am sitting here in Noo Yawk, wondering when I will
be able to buy a new pair of pants for the upcoming
summer weather, and hoping that my Food Stamps get
deposited so I can go shopping before my kitchen is
completely empty. We do not have socialized medicine,
so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to
my hospital's medical clinics.

You have an unrealistic perception of the American
economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm
one. We are not all Texas oil millionaires.

-- Len/ Kalipadma


--- Lars Hedström <lars@...> wrote:
>
>
> Why is there so many poor people in India but not in
> Europe or USA?
>
> Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned?
>

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But US of A is very good in hiding her poor *smile*

Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108@...> wrote:
I am sitting here in Noo Yawk, wondering when I will
be able to buy a new pair of pants for the upcoming
summer weather, and hoping that my Food Stamps get
deposited so I can go shopping before my kitchen is
completely empty. We do not have socialized medicine,
so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to
my hospital's medical clinics.

You have an unrealistic perception of the American
economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm
one. We are not all Texas oil millionaires.

-- Len/ Kalipadma


--- Lars Hedström wrote:
>
>
> Why is there so many poor people in India but not in
> Europe or USA?
>
> Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned?
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Len Rosenberg" wrote:

> We do not have socialized medicine,
> so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to
> my hospital's medical clinics.

The people in USA are apparently the most helath-crippled in the world due to
wrong lifestyle and food.

>
> You have an unrealistic perception of the American
> economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm
> one.

OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a telephone and a
refrigerator. How many have that in india?

Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street in US - on
the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling...

Regards

Lars



We are not all Texas oil millionaires.
>
> -- Len/ Kalipadma
>
>
> --- Lars Hedström <lars@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why is there so many poor people in India but not in
> > Europe or USA?
> >
> > Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned?
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- Lars Hedström <lars@...> wrote:

>
>
> OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a
> telephone and a refrigerator.

My computer and phone were gifts given to me by
friends. No car, no TV. The fridge is rented, along
with the apartment.


> How many have that in
> india?
>
> Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons
> in the street in US - on the contrary people are so
> fat that they are rolling...

The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo
Yawk are pretty thin. And many poor fat people have
filled up on empty calories.

-- Len/ Kalipadma


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In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lars@... writes:
Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street in US - on
the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling...



it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese. It's an
epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a roundabout
way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and also lack of
any ideal spiritual or otherwise.

When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives? Also the fast food
industry is responsible for a lot of torture and suffering of animals as well
as environmental destruction. It's very bad Karma for everyone.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds
folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and
throughout LA county....

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, Len Rosenberg
<kalipadma108@y...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a
> > telephone and a refrigerator.
>
> My computer and phone were gifts given to me by
> friends. No car, no TV. The fridge is rented, along
> with the apartment.
>
>
> > How many have that in
> > india?
> >
> > Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons
> > in the street in US - on the contrary people are so
> > fat that they are rolling...
>
> The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo
> Yawk are pretty thin. And many poor fat people have
> filled up on empty calories.
>
> -- Len/ Kalipadma
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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I wanted to mention this when we were on the Santeria topic and
animal slaughter. There is a woman who is autistic named Temple
Grandin who claims that she has an understanding of animals because
her mind works as theirs do. She has written a couple of books, and
she has designed humane slaughterhouses and methods of transport
based on her special awareness of and affinity with animals.

Here's her website for anyone who is interested:
http://www.grandin.com/

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, swastik108@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lars@2... writes:
> Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street
in US - on
> the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling...
>
>
>
> it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese.
It's an
> epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a
roundabout
> way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and
also lack of
> any ideal spiritual or otherwise.
>
> When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives? Also the
fast food
> industry is responsible for a lot of torture and suffering of
animals as well
> as environmental destruction. It's very bad Karma for everyone.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swastik wrote:

"it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese. It's an
epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a roundabout
way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and also lack of
any ideal spiritual or otherwise."

Yeah, you are right. What is the goal of humanity and the human culture or
peoples lifes? People do not know, they are lost.

The backside of materialism.


"When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives?"

To the pharmacyindustry people's bad health is a goldmine. This industry do not
want to cure people cause this would mean less profit. The pharmacy industry
defines to a very high degree the medical science of how diseases are to be
treated. Most physician are obedient (=higher salary) and deliver only
symtomatic pills - they are the real whores.

Regards

Lars










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Ann:

"Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds
folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and
throughout LA county...."

It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot deliver an
acceptable standard for all its citizens.

Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people must vote in a
society to be qualified to be called a democracy.

You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants?


Regards

Lars




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Len Rosenberg:

"The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo
Yawk are pretty thin."

Aren't there any jobs for them?

Regards

Lars


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Sound of Len laughing hysterically as he shakes his
head ruefully.]

--- Lars Hedström <lars@...> wrote:

> Len Rosenberg:
>
> "The homeless people who root through the trash in
> Noo
> Yawk are pretty thin."
>
> Aren't there any jobs for them?
>
> Regards
>
> Lars
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




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what is the percentage of non-immigrants in US Society? 10%??
Lars Hedström <lars@...> wrote:Mary Ann:

"Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds
folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and
throughout LA county...."

It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot deliver an
acceptable standard for all its citizens.

Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people must vote in a
society to be qualified to be called a democracy.

You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants?


Regards

Lars




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think it has something to do with lack of education, lack of good
nutrition (prevalence of fast food, hormones in meat and in milk and
cheese, no nutrients in white flour, white sugar, etc. so that the
affordable food makes us fat as well as malnourished and ailing),
and then because we're "the richest nation in the world" we go
around bullying people, bolstering ourselves via the Christian
church, demanding that others should be more like us.

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, Lars Hedström <lars@2...>
wrote:
> Mary Ann:
>
> "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually
feeds
> folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and
> throughout LA county...."
>
> It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot
deliver an acceptable standard for all its citizens.
>
> Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people
must vote in a society to be qualified to be called a democracy.
>
> You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Lars
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"sankara menon" wrote:




>what is the percentage of non-immigrants in >US Society? 10%??

I ofcourse meant new immigrants who haven't yet established in the society.

A society with a high immigration has bigger problems to guarantee social
security for all ofcourse.

Lars

We are a nation of immigrants. Who are the
non-immigrants in US society? Native Americans? They
make considerably less than ten percent. (And many
Native Americans are crushingly poor.)

-- Len/ Kalipadma



--- sankara menon <kochu1tz@...> wrote:

>
> what is the percentage of non-immigrants in US
> Society? 10%??
> Lars Hedström <lars@...>
> wrote:Mary Ann:
>
> "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's
> kitchen actually feeds
> folks here (or did before local ordinances got in
> the way) and
> throughout LA county...."
>
> It's a scandal that the richest country in the world
> cannot deliver an acceptable standard for all its
> citizens.
>
> Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60%
> of the people must vote in a society to be qualified
> to be called a democracy.
>
> You don't think it has something to do with a lot of
> immigrants?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Lars
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
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New immigrants to the USA are frequently hired for
dirty, low-paying jobs that force them to live several
families in a small apartment. I have quite a few
college-educated friends, born and raised in the US,
who cannot find work at all. Good paying jobs are at a
premium, companies are "downsizing," many positions
are being "outsourced" to countries like Mexico and
India.

These friends are working two or three part-time jobs
(when they can find them), with no medical coverage,
insurance, or benefits. Many are turned down for
honest, "manual labor" jobs, they are told -- "You're
educated, so you won't stay in a low-paying job like
this."

My 85-year old father says the economy has not been
this bad since the Great Depression of 1939. Mr. Bush
and his political cohorts are slashing government
funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about
how social security is going down the tubes. He
pushes for "faith-based" financial assistance -- and I
am not affiliated with any church Mr. Bush would
accept. Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New
York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings
and Loans? No, no, and no.

I am "lucky" that my left hip deteriorated with
arthritis, and I receive Social Security Disability
benefits based on my 18 years working as a New York
City Civil Servant. It's not quite enough to pay the
rent and utilities, medical costs (no socialized
medicine here), and food (thank Goddess for Food
Stamps), and there is no money left over for new
clothes, or books. But at least I can sit at home and
yatter on my computer (a gift from several friends),
while my "able-bodied" unemployed friends have to rush
about submitting resumes and going on job interviews,
to no avail in most cases.

Yes, I am bitter about the US economy.

-- Len/ Kalipadma



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Then I say, get your act together and take it out on the road! You
are funny, and you could communicate this stuff on tour like I
mentioned! It's not like it'll interfere with your disability
benefits, and probably, folks will feed you wherever you go. Then it
won't only be yattering online, but you can yatter in person and
participate in generating some affluent abundance of spirit. And
every spiritual guru may provide an opportunity for you. For
example, maybe your friend's guru's tour. You can put together a
short routine of jokes with economic info interspersed and try it
out on your friend, the rich one with the attitude, because it's her
and others like her who need you most

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, Len Rosenberg
<kalipadma108@y...> wrote:
>
> New immigrants to the USA are frequently hired for
> dirty, low-paying jobs that force them to live several
> families in a small apartment. I have quite a few
> college-educated friends, born and raised in the US,
> who cannot find work at all. Good paying jobs are at a
> premium, companies are "downsizing," many positions
> are being "outsourced" to countries like Mexico and
> India.
>
> These friends are working two or three part-time jobs
> (when they can find them), with no medical coverage,
> insurance, or benefits. Many are turned down for
> honest, "manual labor" jobs, they are told -- "You're
> educated, so you won't stay in a low-paying job like
> this."
>
> My 85-year old father says the economy has not been
> this bad since the Great Depression of 1939. Mr. Bush
> and his political cohorts are slashing government
> funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about
> how social security is going down the tubes. He
> pushes for "faith-based" financial assistance -- and I
> am not affiliated with any church Mr. Bush would
> accept. Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New
> York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings
> and Loans? No, no, and no.
>
> I am "lucky" that my left hip deteriorated with
> arthritis, and I receive Social Security Disability
> benefits based on my 18 years working as a New York
> City Civil Servant. It's not quite enough to pay the
> rent and utilities, medical costs (no socialized
> medicine here), and food (thank Goddess for Food
> Stamps), and there is no money left over for new
> clothes, or books. But at least I can sit at home and
> yatter on my computer (a gift from several friends),
> while my "able-bodied" unemployed friends have to rush
> about submitting resumes and going on job interviews,
> to no avail in most cases.
>
> Yes, I am bitter about the US economy.
>
> -- Len/ Kalipadma
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>Mr. Bush and his political cohorts are slashing government
>funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about
>how social security is going down the tubes.

Yes: because they are pushing it!

Len is right. The immigrants work harder than many, for less. If
anything, they are holding things up. Food prices, among other
things, would be much higher if not for their low-paid labor.

Max
--
Max Dashu
Suppressed Histories Archives
Global Women's History
http://www.suppressedhistories.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Len is right. The immigrants work harder than many, for less. If
> anything, they are holding things up. Food prices, among other
> things, would be much higher if not for their low-paid labor.


In 1995, two major sweatshop exposes rocked the nation and put
sweatshops back in the public eye. In the Los Angeles suburb of El
Monte, labor officials discovered a slave-sweatshop where 80 Thai
immigrants were forced to sew brand-name clothes in a compound behind
razor wire and armed guards. Making clothing that was sold at major
stores like Mervyn's and Montgomery Wards, the workers made less than
$2 per hour.

http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/index.php?s=67

Please allow me to voice my observations on this issue. I speak as an
immigrant from India who has lived in the USA for almost 30 years.
A large part of the problem is the American view of itself. The
USA calls itself the "Land of Opportunity" in which a poor person can
become wealthy. The people who are held up and idolized as heroes are
people who did this. These can be immigrants or not. There are
stories of people who came to the US from Europe in the 19th Century,
with nothing but one bar of soap in their pockets, yet after years of
hard work own large companies.
The reality of course is not that extreme, but the general
pattern is accurate. The majority of middle-class Americans are
descended from immigrants who came here from Europe in the 19th and
early 20th Centuries. They came here looking for better lives than
they had in Europe, and for the most part they succeeded. These
people today have much better lives than their immigrant grandparents.
The unfortunate corollary to this is that if it is possible for
a poor person to become wealthy, then it is logical to conclude that
any person who is poor and who remains poor must be lazy or stupid.
Thus the successful people have no sympathy for the poor and refuse
to help them. This is of course a silly misunderstanding of the
causes of poverty, but many Americans believe this. The poor are poor
because they deserve to be poor
The perception today is that most of the homeless people are
drug users and/or mentally ill. It is true that many drug users and
mentally ill people become homeless because there are inadequate
provisions to help them, but there are other homeless people who do
not fit this description. There are many small industrial towns in
the United States in which there is one and only one factory, often
one built in the 1890s. In the past, everyone in the town worked at
this one factory. But if the factory closes, what are the people to
do? They are forced to move to other cities looking for work, having
no income while they look for new jobs. Thus they become homeless.
But after they become homeless, the mere fact of being homeless
prevents them from getting jobs. This is because of the perception
that all homeless are insane or drug users. Once they are homeless,
it is extremely difficult to remove oneself from that condition.

Sister Usha