joy & stuff...where'd it go?

February 4, 1999

I mean to ask this of my teacher too, but i wanted to shoot out something

for advice .

i dont know if its me, if im doing something wrong, or if its just a phase

of spiritual growth, but doing meditation & stuff can sometimes not be the

joyful experience it once was. Its like everything got all serious all of

a sudden.

Besides the fact im grasping at something that is not there, is there a

phase in one's development that passes through a kind of seriousness,

where everything is very 'close', and one's emotional reactions seem worse

than before one started spiritual practise?

harsha wrote me one time something like 'the buddhist says dont be

bothered!'. problem is, i am bothered, but everything i see people doing

that brings harm (starting w/me), or unhappiness. Its hard to stay

centered.

At times, i want to go off into a cave for a while to regroup!

thanks for listening

--janpa

February 4, 1999

Debora A. Orf wrote:

> I mean to ask this of my teacher too, but i wanted to shoot out something

> for advice .

>

> i dont know if its me, if im doing something wrong, or if its just a phase

> of spiritual growth, but doing meditation & stuff can sometimes not be the

> joyful experience it once was. Its like everything got all serious all of

> a sudden.

>

> Besides the fact im grasping at something that is not there, is there a

> phase in one's development that passes through a kind of seriousness,

> where everything is very 'close', and one's emotional reactions seem worse

> than before one started spiritual practise?

>

> harsha wrote me one time something like 'the buddhist says dont be

> bothered!'. problem is, i am bothered, but everything i see people doing

> that brings harm (starting w/me), or unhappiness. Its hard to stay

> centered.

>

> At times, i want to go off into a cave for a while to regroup!

>

> thanks for listening

>

> --janpa

Hi,

I would simply say that change indicates growth at the hand of Grace

(which you reached out to in meditation), and that judgment of change

impedes growth.

What is to be gained in judgment or in "being bothered?" A person can be

an activist and remain an outsider, doing their meditation.

Isn't formal meditation, the cave?

With love,

Jerry

February 4, 1999

---"Debora A. Orf" <dorf01 wrote:

>

> "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01

>

> I mean to ask this of my teacher too, but i wanted to shoot out

something

> for advice .

>

> i dont know if its me, if im doing something wrong, or if its just a

phase

> of spiritual growth, but doing meditation & stuff can sometimes not

be the

> joyful experience it once was. Its like everything got all serious

all of

> a sudden.

>

> Besides the fact im grasping at something that is not there, is

there a

> phase in one's development that passes through a kind of seriousness,

> where everything is very 'close', and one's emotional reactions seem

worse

> than before one started spiritual practise?

>

> harsha wrote me one time something like 'the buddhist says dont be

> bothered!'. problem is, i am bothered, but everything i see people

doing

> that brings harm (starting w/me), or unhappiness. Its hard to stay

> centered.

>

> At times, i want to go off into a cave for a while to regroup!

>

> thanks for listening

>

> --janpa

>

> Hi Debora,

There are definately peaks and valleys and everything else in-between.

I have often had this problem with my quest. There are no easy

answers, one must find them for oneself. I try not to be attached to

any outcome of what my practice may bring. By attaching any

preconcieved outcome of what my practice may produce my ego

involvement has a penchant for negating anything positive that I may

want to derive from my practice. Practice , practice , practice, let

come what may, everything is sacred.

Sat Nam

Larry

>

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> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

>

February 4, 1999

Janpa,

I would be curious to know what type of meditation, how long, and how

often, if I may be so bold...the "bad things" that you view are in fact one

of the three primary energies of MayaShakti--the first of these primary

coverings, or veil of limitation--is called anavamala, and is the limiting

power that provides the universial experient--Siva--with the illusary veil

of limtation and the sphere of difference. There is also the second power,

called mayiyamala, and this brings the illusion of difference among

objects...the third, and very powerful(I believe this is what you are

experiencing)is called karmamala--omnipotence is reduced to limited

activity, the the experient performs and experiences good or bad acts. these

three powers are the limitors of:

1. icchasakti(divine will or the knower)

2. jnanasakti (knowldge or the knowing)

3. kriyasakti (action or the known)

All sentient beings possess the inferior power of kriyasakti--we are

all the known...through effort, we may attain the energy of jnanasakti--the

knowing(here knowing and consciousness/awareness are identical). It is only

by divine grace of the knower (Siva)that we can attain icchasakti. Once this

happens, the individual is said to have attained jivanmukti or

Moksha--liberated while still in the body.

It is this limited, objective view cause by the third maya--karmamala,

that has you at odds...consider this metaphor:

for the sake of argument, lets assume that your body is the omniscient

Siva...each cell could be considered Jiva(Shiva in contracted form) as each

cell has all of the information in its dna for the entire organism(which in

this case represents Shiva). Although you know that you are an entire,

single organism(Shiva), each cell(jiva) sees itself as seperate from all the

rest. This is Maya, for surely each cell possesses the material for the

entire you, and it is within you....Each cell(individual Jiva) has you in

it, and each cell is in you--there is no difference. Now, remember you are

Siva...you cut your finger, and in the process, loose some cells. The cells

beside the lost cells may say (oh why was our brother/sister/mother/father

cell taken from us? or you get a cold, and the white blood cells destroy the

bacteria, with some healthy cells along with it. Again the cells which lost

their kin due to seemingly mindless acts are grieved...or take the red blood

cells, which live for 90 days, then die, and are processed in the

body(mainly the liver) and recycled. This cycle of birth and death causes

the kin of these cells to grieve, why did they have to die. This is

objectivity, this is the veil of karmamala, one of the energies of maya. You

as the complete organism(Shiva) know that these processes are neither good

or bad, they are but processes. You are the absolute subject, not an

objective cell within the subject. you know that these are bodily functions,

not good or bad, only seemingly so to the objective cells that were

immediately affected. When this veil is lifted from the cells, they merge

with you in unity of one divine mind...this cell that does this has achieved

liberation while still a functional cell--Moksha. When the individual cell

realizes that it is synonomous with you, this is the attainment of

jnanasakti--knowing...but do to the cells limitations, this is as far as it

can go alone, which is knowing this...through grace alone you open the cell

up to the oneness of your totality, and viola! Unity. The cell is liberated

while still a functional cell.

I hope this is helpful to at least some degree. I would like to know some of

your meditative practices...there may be some measures that could help allay

some of your concerns.