Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

More ideas about Guru

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.

 

My guru initiated me in October 1991.

 

During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict

regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation.

Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a discourse.

 

The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or

maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes

and speak from his solar plexus.

 

One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too

much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I

really do know what's best for you."

 

Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question

and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and

laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru,

your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.

 

This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering

scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion.

 

I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on

the earth plane.

 

When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's

perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that

duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual

seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal.

 

I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing with

my ears.

 

I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru.

One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you

want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of

the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or

even by our very own soul.

 

Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the master

will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just

the first I heard say it.

 

If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear

to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your

sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little

voice in your head or heart.

 

I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we

make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?

 

There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to

check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?"

 

And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while

before you react and say, "No."

 

If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why

did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"

 

The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good

when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be

sure.

 

When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.

 

So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And

are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you

making the drama in the first place?

 

If so, why?

 

Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the

answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know?

 

I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd

like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.

 

*hugs*

 

Brian

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian,

Excellent story & ideas!

 

Astraea

 

, Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:

> This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.

>

> My guru initiated me in October 1991.

>

> During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty

strict

> regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation.

> Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a

discourse.

>

> The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of

himself or

> maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close

his eyes

> and speak from his solar plexus.

>

> One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans

sleep too

> much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me,

I

> really do know what's best for you."

>

> Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual

question

> and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and

> laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your

Guru,

> your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.

>

> This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering

> scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change

of opinion.

>

> I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness

here on

> the earth plane.

>

> When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's

> perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have

that

> duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the

spiritual

> seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate

goal.

>

> I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god

hearing with

> my ears.

>

> I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one

is guru.

> One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what

ever you

> want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a

guru of

> the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our

heart, or

> even by our very own soul.

>

> Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the

master

> will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he

was just

> the first I heard say it.

>

> If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will

appear

> to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come

in your

> sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a

little

> voice in your head or heart.

>

> I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart.

If we

> make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?

>

> There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone

needs to

> check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has

said?"

>

> And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a

while

> before you react and say, "No."

>

> If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask

yourself, "Why

> did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"

>

> The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel

good

> when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you

can be

> sure.

>

> When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.

>

> So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating

from? And

> are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama?

Are you

> making the drama in the first place?

>

> If so, why?

>

> Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time

and the

> answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama?

Anyone know?

>

> I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now

though. I'd

> like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.

>

> *hugs*

>

> Brian

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ChrisBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote:

This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.My guru

initiated me in October 1991.During one of the retreats on which he

took us he gave us a pretty strict regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for

an hour and a half of meditation. Followed by breakfast, a small

break and then he would give us a discourse.The discourse was

different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or maybe it was

Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes and

speak from his solar plexus.One morning he scolded us for being

tired, he told us Americans sleep too much. He said, "I am your Guru

you should respect and listen to me, I really do know what's best for

you."Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual

question and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was

smiling and laughing,

someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru, your

Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.This example

had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering scientific mind

was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion.I think

this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on the

earth plane.When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from

Guru's perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all

have that duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is

the spiritual seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual

seekers ultimate goal.I want to walk around with god looking through

my eyes and god hearing with my ears.I think Kelly was saying that

one does not need a guru because one is guru. One's true self, or

higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you want to call

it is guru. Even if we have not

been initiated by a guru of the flesh we can just as easily be

initiated by a guru within our heart, or even by our very own

soul.Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready,

the master will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it

though, he was just the first I heard say it.If you are ready to

receive the light of god, then the master will appear to you. If

there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your

sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a

little voice in your head or heart.I think our goal is to prepare a

place for God(des) in our heart. If we make it fancy and full of love

for her, then how can she not come?There have been some reactions in

this thread lately. Everyone needs to check themselves and ask, "have

I reacted to something someone has said?"And let the question bounce

around in your head and heart for a while before

you react and say, "No."If the answer is "Yes," then you need to

accept it and ask yourself, "Why did I react? What was so upsetting

to me?"The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not

feel good when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of

that you can be sure.When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.So

look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And

are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama?

Are you making the drama in the first place?If so, why?Drama is a

very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the answers

to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know?I

know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd

like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul

searching.*hugs*BrianTo from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is

certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system

(http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 -

Release 10/6/2003

 

The New with improved product search

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama.

I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to that "still small

voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are completely

surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then know who

we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly upon that

truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her Dance, that

is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice).

The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is the essence of

Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She will,

because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti.

In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity--we can finally

learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama unknowingly,

thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of witness

because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine voice, shall we

say, in which we have perfect trust.

In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify with it, we

ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception--which is

our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with life in joyful

surrender and abandon.

Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the drama

in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman have

forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are caught in this

drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't come to know

our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature, the drama

of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can reclaim their

kingdom, or remain in full union with Her.

 

 

 

 

, Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:

> This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.

>

> My guru initiated me in October 1991.

>

> During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a pretty strict

> regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of meditation.

> Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a

discourse.

>

> The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of himself or

> maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close his eyes

> and speak from his solar plexus.

>

> One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans sleep too

> much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to me, I

> really do know what's best for you."

>

> Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual question

> and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling and

> laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not your Guru,

> your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.

>

> This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My engineering

> scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change of opinion.

>

> I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness here on

> the earth plane.

>

> When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's

> perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that

> duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual

> seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate goal.

>

> I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god hearing

with

> my ears.

>

> I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because one is guru.

> One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you

> want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of

> the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or

> even by our very own soul.

>

> Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, the

master

> will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he was just

> the first I heard say it.

>

> If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear

> to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come in your

> sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as a little

> voice in your head or heart.

>

> I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we

> make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?

>

> There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to

> check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has

said?"

>

> And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a while

> before you react and say, "No."

>

> If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why

> did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"

>

> The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not feel good

> when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that you can be

> sure.

>

> When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.

>

> So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating from? And

> are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you

> making the drama in the first place?

>

> If so, why?

>

> Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time and the

> answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone

know?

>

> I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd

> like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.

>

> *hugs*

>

> Brian

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nitya Ma,

I had to read your post a couple of times before I understood that

you're referring to the Guru in Brian's story: that this Guru could

go from speaking from his Inner Guru to speaking from his egoic state.

 

But not all Gurus are rooted in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I

think there are different levels of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal.

Not all are jivanmukti. Am I misunderstanding something here?

 

I thought only the highest form of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in

Turiya at all times.

 

Astraea

 

, "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote:

> It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama.

> I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to

that "still small

> voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are

completely

> surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then

know who

> we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly

upon that

> truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her

Dance, that

> is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice).

> The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is

the essence of

> Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She

will,

> because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti.

> In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity--

we can finally

> learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama

unknowingly,

> thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of

witness

> because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine

voice, shall we

> say, in which we have perfect trust.

> In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify

with it, we

> ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception--

which is

> our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with

life in joyful

> surrender and abandon.

> Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the

drama

> in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman

have

> forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are

caught in this

> drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't

come to know

> our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature,

the drama

> of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can

reclaim their

> kingdom, or remain in full union with Her.

>

>

>

>

> , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:

> > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.

> >

> > My guru initiated me in October 1991.

> >

> > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a

pretty strict

> > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of

meditation.

> > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a

> discourse.

> >

> > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of

himself or

> > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close

his eyes

> > and speak from his solar plexus.

> >

> > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans

sleep too

> > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to

me, I

> > really do know what's best for you."

> >

> > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual

question

> > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling

and

> > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not

your Guru,

> > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.

> >

> > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My

engineering

> > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change

of opinion.

> >

> > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness

here on

> > the earth plane.

> >

> > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's

> > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all

have that

> > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the

spiritual

> > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers

ultimate goal.

> >

> > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god

hearing

> with

> > my ears.

> >

> > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because

one is guru.

> > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what

ever you

> > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a

guru of

> > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our

heart, or

> > even by our very own soul.

> >

> > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready,

the

> master

> > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he

was just

> > the first I heard say it.

> >

> > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master

will appear

> > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will

come in your

> > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as

a little

> > voice in your head or heart.

> >

> > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart.

If we

> > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?

> >

> > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone

needs to

> > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone

has

> said?"

> >

> > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a

while

> > before you react and say, "No."

> >

> > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask

yourself, "Why

> > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"

> >

> > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not

feel good

> > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that

you can be

> > sure.

> >

> > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.

> >

> > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating

from? And

> > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the

drama? Are you

> > making the drama in the first place?

> >

> > If so, why?

> >

> > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time

and the

> > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama?

Anyone

> know?

> >

> > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now

though. I'd

> > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul

searching.

> >

> > *hugs*

> >

> > Brian

> >

> >

> > ---

> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

plexus.> > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us

Americans sleep too > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should

respect and listen to me, I > really do know what's best for you."> >

Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual

question > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was

smiling and > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I

am not your Guru, > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the

person's chest.> > This example had me perplexed for the longest

time. My engineering > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at

his apparent change of opinion.> > I think this is a perfect example

of the duality of consciousness here on > the earth plane.> > When he

was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's > perspective,

but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all have that > duality

within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the spiritual >

seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers ultimate

goal.> > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and

god hearing with > my ears.> > I think Kelly was saying that one does

not need a guru because one is guru. > One's true self, or higher self

or oversoul or ParamAtman or what ever you > want to call it is guru.

Even if we have not been initiated by a guru of > the flesh we can

just as easily be initiated by a guru within our heart, or > even by

our very own soul.> > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the

student is ready, the master > will appear. I don't think he was the

first to say it though, he was just > the first I heard say it.> > If

you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master will appear

> to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will come

in your > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision,

or as a little > voice in your head or heart.> > I think our goal is

to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart. If we > make it fancy

and full of love for her, then how can she not come?> > There have

been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone needs to > check

themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone has said?">

> And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a

while > before you react and say, "No."> > If the answer is "Yes,"

then you need to accept it and ask yourself, "Why > did I react? What

was so upsetting to me?"> > The answer to that question may not come

easily and it may not feel good > when it does at first, but it will

be quite liberating. Of that you can be > sure.> > When present,

drama indicates unhealed trauma.> > So look around you and spot the

drama. Where is it originating from? And > are you playing into it?

Are you making yourself part of the drama? Are you > making the drama

in the first place?> > If so, why?> > Drama is a very interesting

subject. Humans make it all the time and the > answers to its causes

are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? Anyone know?> > I know

some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now though. I'd >

like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul searching.>

> *hugs*> > Brian> > > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.>

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version:

6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date:

10/6/2003------------------------ Sponsor

---------------------~-->Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your

HP, Epson, Canon or LexmarkPrinter at MyInks.com. Free s/h on o

rders $50 or more to the US &

Canada.http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511http://us.click./mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/XUWolB/TM---~->To

from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to No banners. No

pop-ups. No kidding.Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Astraea,

I wasn't actually referring to the Guru in Brian's story. I was referring to

inner

guru (he said, " one's true self or paramatman, etc...").

That is what we ultimately surrender to--that Divine Voice, Divine Mother

Herself, our own Divine Soul. Satguru comes from there (the Guru in Brian's

story pointed to his chest), from that place of Truth, of Knowing:

Satchitananda. So many ways to refer to that Truth. But it has nothing to do

with ego. It is however, our divine drama.

 

Then, I was alluding to two choices in the end of my post:

In the Chandi, the two main characters listening to the teachings of the rishi

are the King (Good Thoughts) and the businessman (samadhi).

After their awakening (many episodes later ) and many years (three) of

continual tapasya,

they each ask for a boon from Divine Mother.

Good Thoughts, the king, asks for his kingdom back; of course this time as he

rules his kingdom (his "self") he is coming from an enlightened, dharmic

place, and lives completely in Good Thoughts. Previously,he had lost his

"kingdom" trying to manage all without surrender to Divinity, to the Divine

Mother herself, and found it impossible without the invasion of negativity and

destructive forces.

Samadhi, the businessman, by that time indifferent to objects in the world,

asks for knowledge which "removes the attachment to egotism and

possession", and She gives him the "highest wisdom by which" he attains

liberation,or samadhi--union with the Divine.

These are two different choices in surrender to Truth, we could say, to (inner)

Guru, but just different. Swamiji teaches us that they are the only choices at

that point (in the story).

 

, "astraea2003" <astraea2003>

wrote:

> Nitya Ma,

> I had to read your post a couple of times before I understood that

> you're referring to the Guru in Brian's story: that this Guru could

> go from speaking from his Inner Guru to speaking from his egoic state.

>

> But not all Gurus are rooted in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I

> think there are different levels of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal.

> Not all are jivanmukti. Am I misunderstanding something here?

>

> I thought only the highest form of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in

> Turiya at all times.

>

> Astraea

>

> , "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote:

> > It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama.

> > I believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to

> that "still small

> > voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather, we are

> completely

> > surrendered to that knowledge that She is directing all), we then

> know who

> > we truly are. And when we know who we truly are, we stand firmly

> upon that

> > truth. In standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her

> Dance, that

> > is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of choice).

> > The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama; this is

> the essence of

> > Nature--dance She will, because dance She must--or, change She

> will,

> > because change She must. That is who She is--that is Prakriti.

> > In our place of witness--of perfect surrender and equanimity--

> we can finally

> > learn to witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama

> unknowingly,

> > thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of

> witness

> > because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that divine

> voice, shall we

> > say, in which we have perfect trust.

> > In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify

> with it, we

> > ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive perception--

> which is

> > our own Divine Self. Life dances us! rather than us dancing with

> life in joyful

> > surrender and abandon.

> > Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we become the

> drama

> > in the very first chapter where both the king and the businessman

> have

> > forgotten (or not yet rediscovered) their true selves, and are

> caught in this

> > drama by their very nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't

> come to know

> > our Divine Nature). When they come to know their Divine Nature,

> the drama

> > of the Divine Mother is just witnessed by them--and they can

> reclaim their

> > kingdom, or remain in full union with Her.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:

> > > This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.

> > >

> > > My guru initiated me in October 1991.

> > >

> > > During one of the retreats on which he took us he gave us a

> pretty strict

> > > regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of

> meditation.

> > > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a

> > discourse.

> > >

> > > The discourse was different. He tuned to some higher form of

> himself or

> > > maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close

> his eyes

> > > and speak from his solar plexus.

> > >

> > > One morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans

> sleep too

> > > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and listen to

> me, I

> > > really do know what's best for you."

> > >

> > > Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual

> question

> > > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he was smiling

> and

> > > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he said, "I am not

> your Guru,

> > > your Guru is in here." And he pointed to the person's chest.

> > >

> > > This example had me perplexed for the longest time. My

> engineering

> > > scientific mind was really quite disturbed at his apparent change

> of opinion.

> > >

> > > I think this is a perfect example of the duality of consciousness

> here on

> > > the earth plane.

> > >

> > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking from Guru's

> > > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his ego. We all

> have that

> > > duality within us, it is the ending of that duality that is the

> spiritual

> > > seeker's ultimate goal. Or at least this spiritual seekers

> ultimate goal.

> > >

> > > I want to walk around with god looking through my eyes and god

> hearing

> > with

> > > my ears.

> > >

> > > I think Kelly was saying that one does not need a guru because

> one is guru.

> > > One's true self, or higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what

> ever you

> > > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a

> guru of

> > > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru within our

> heart, or

> > > even by our very own soul.

> > >

> > > Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready,

> the

> > master

> > > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it though, he

> was just

> > > the first I heard say it.

> > >

> > > If you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master

> will appear

> > > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then she will

> come in your

> > > sleep or in your day dreams or in a corner of your vision, or as

> a little

> > > voice in your head or heart.

> > >

> > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des) in our heart.

> If we

> > > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how can she not come?

> > >

> > > There have been some reactions in this thread lately. Everyone

> needs to

> > > check themselves and ask, "have I reacted to something someone

> has

> > said?"

> > >

> > > And let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a

> while

> > > before you react and say, "No."

> > >

> > > If the answer is "Yes," then you need to accept it and ask

> yourself, "Why

> > > did I react? What was so upsetting to me?"

> > >

> > > The answer to that question may not come easily and it may not

> feel good

> > > when it does at first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that

> you can be

> > > sure.

> > >

> > > When present, drama indicates unhealed trauma.

> > >

> > > So look around you and spot the drama. Where is it originating

> from? And

> > > are you playing into it? Are you making yourself part of the

> drama? Are you

> > > making the drama in the first place?

> > >

> > > If so, why?

> > >

> > > Drama is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time

> and the

> > > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama?

> Anyone

> > know?

> > >

> > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll hold back for now

> though. I'd

> > > like you all to think about it for a while, do some soul

> searching.

> > >

> > > *hugs*

> > >

> > > Brian

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release 10/6/2003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really enjoy your posts and read them slowly. I think the main

confusion was about some of the comments from other devotee's

alluding the idea that one had to have a physical Guru or a

transmission. I know I get confused about what people are talking

about because so many make a difference and are relating to physical

Guru's and some the Inner Guru. It's hard to know by reading

sometimes.

You mentioned in a previous article that once the Inner Guru is known

we can rest firmly in that knowing and witness the drama without

reaction. I think alot of people think witnessing the drama means

being a bump on a log. I asked in a previous post about the drama of

the devotee, what you call the Divine Drama between the Lover and

their Beloved or sometimes Challenge if She is Change. We all have

one going on all the time. I know when dramatic events happened in

Ramakrishna's life that he cried, he was effected by externals - the

obvious human element. He was also effected by who came around and

who didn't, again the human element. It appears that he didn't have

forebearance as he so deperately avoided certain individuals for

whatever karma they had - this is human, we all do it..... He also

told us to "Hiss" like a snake at those who would deter us off the

path. Hissing at our own fearful projections of

another, this is human too, we all do it. Does this mean his

enlightenment went out the window that moment? Nope. There are

stories all over about how the Bramanjnani or Enlightened One

appeared dramatic in mundane circumstance. How the devotee's judged

their Masters for being emotional. I think it's important to not

judge the book by it's cover and think drama means you are far from

Guru or Maa, - which results in statements: ,"A ha! That person is

making it up! What a story! or "Not so far along the path now are

you???" Haughty chuckle chuckle....

I think the expectation of not appearing dramatic can hinder one's

devotion and I think we should embrace that Divine Drama and be in

awe of the wonder of it all as well as our humaneness. I once was

explaining what I call the Human Element to my pundit friend and I

said, to be Human was something to aspire to. Reaction from instinct

is the Animal Nature (our cute and cuddly sometimes fericious

friends). Being Human was being compassionate and having Humaneness

towards everyone. Most often we call being Human as something bad or

imperfect when I've seen very few be Human in the truest sense. They

call us Human Beings...Animal Being vs. Human Being. BEING a Human

is you and me being Humane, and Humane Beings are divine, but as long

as Ma has her funny bone, there will be drama. Is the Divine far from

being Human in it's Truest sense? Can one be Divine without truely

being Human? It's odd how aspirants try to be

Divine without first being Human, drama and all. If they judge the

human drama as bad, then the Divine Drama most likely will be judged.

At the end of your post you mention Swamiji says there are only 2

choices at that point. Removal of egotism and possession and Samadhi

or to go back to the Kingdom and rule from a place of Dharma. When

one is right square in the middle of this fork in the road, is it

neccessary to chose? Doesn't God do the choosing for the perfectly

surrendered devotee? If a monk rules an ashram from a place of

Dharma, he still has his kingdom, but does this mean he misses out on

samadhi? Is there really a choice in the end or the appearance of

one?

I hope I didn't get too far off topic.

nitya_ma <nitya_ma > wrote:

Astraea,I wasn't actually referring to the Guru in Brian's story. I

was referring to inner guru (he said, " one's true self or

paramatman, etc...").That is what we ultimately surrender to--that

Divine Voice, Divine Mother Herself, our own Divine Soul. Satguru

comes from there (the Guru in Brian's story pointed to his chest),

from that place of Truth, of Knowing: Satchitananda. So many ways

to refer to that Truth. But it has nothing to do with ego. It is

however, our divine drama.Then, I was alluding to two choices in the

end of my post:In the Chandi, the two main characters listening to

the teachings of the rishi are the King (Good Thoughts) and the

businessman (samadhi).After their awakening (many episodes later )

and many years (three) of continual tapasya,they each ask for a boon

from Divine Mother.Good Thoughts, the king, asks for his kingdom back;

of course this time as he rules his kingdom (his "self") he is coming

from an enlightened, dharmic place, and lives completely in Good

Thoughts. Previously,he had lost his "kingdom" trying to manage all

without surrender to Divinity, to the Divine Mother herself, and

found it impossible without the invasion of negativity and

destructive forces.Samadhi, the businessman, by that time

indifferent to objects in the world, asks for knowledge which

"removes the attachment to egotism and possession", and She gives him

the "highest wisdom by which" he attainsliberation,or samadhi--union

with the Divine.These are two different choices in surrender to

Truth, we could say, to (inner) Guru, but just different. Swamiji

teaches us that they are the only choices at that point (in the

story)., "astraea2003"

<astraea2003> wrote:> Nitya Ma,> I had to read your post a couple

of times before I understood that > you're referring to the Guru in

Brian's story: that this Guru could > go from speaking from his Inner

Guru to speaking from his egoic state.> > But not all Gurus are rooted

in a waking samadhi ALL the time. I > think there are different levels

of Gurus. Not all Gurus are equal. > Not all are jivanmukti. Am I

misunderstanding something here?> > I thought only the highest form

of Guru, a Satguru, is rooted in > Turiya at all times.> > Astraea> >

, "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote:>

> It's interesting to me you should go from inner guru to drama.> > I

believe that when we are truly surrendered to inner guru, to > that

"still small > > voice" of God, when She is directing all (or rather,

we

are > completely > > surrendered to that knowledge that She is

directing all), we then > know who > > we truly are. And when we

know who we truly are, we stand firmly > upon that > > truth. In

standing firmly upon that truth, we can then witness Her > Dance,

that > > is, the drama, without reaction (or with reaction of

choice).> > The drama is a constant, there will always be the drama;

this is > the essence of > > Nature--dance She will, because dance

She must--or, change She > will, > > because change She must. That

is who She is--that is Prakriti.> > In our place of witness--of

perfect surrender and equanimity--> we can finally > > learn to

witness Her, rather than be pulled into that drama > unknowingly, > >

thereby creating more prarabdha karma. We can be in this place of

> witness > > because we are completely surrendered to guru--to that

divine > voice, shall we > > say, in which we have perfect trust.> >

In any other place we are, we become the drama---we identify > with

it, we > > ignore the inner knowing and guidance--pure intuitive

perception--> which is > > our own Divine Self. Life dances us!

rather than us dancing with > life in joyful > > surrender and

abandon.> > Our beautiful Chandi Pathah shows us how easily we

become the > drama > > in the very first chapter where both the king

and the businessman > have > > forgotten (or not yet rediscovered)

their true selves, and are > caught in this > > drama by their very

nature (all of our "natures" when we haven't > come to know > > our

Divine Nature). When they

come to know their Divine Nature, > the drama > > of the Divine Mother

is just witnessed by them--and they can > reclaim their > > kingdom,

or remain in full union with Her.> > > > > > > > > > --- In

, Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > >

This is a true story. It happened in the early nineties.> > > > > >

My guru initiated me in October 1991.> > > > > > During one of the

retreats on which he took us he gave us a > pretty strict > > >

regimen to follow. Up at 6:00 for an hour and a half of > meditation.

> > > Followed by breakfast, a small break and then he would give us a

> > discourse.> > > > > > The discourse was different. He tuned to

some higher form of > himself or > >

> maybe it was Guru Tatva, I really don't know, but he would close >

his eyes > > > and speak from his solar plexus.> > > > > > One

morning he scolded us for being tired, he told us Americans > sleep

too > > > much. He said, "I am your Guru you should respect and

listen to > me, I > > > really do know what's best for you."> > > > >

> Not fifteen minutes later, after the discourse, in a very casual >

question > > > and answer period where his eyes were opened and he

was smiling > and > > > laughing, someone asked him about Guru and he

said, "I am not > your Guru, > > > your Guru is in here." And he

pointed to the person's chest.> > > > > > This example had me

perplexed for the longest time. My > engineering > > > scientific

mind was really quite disturbed at his

apparent change > of opinion.> > > > > > I think this is a perfect

example of the duality of consciousness > here on > > > the earth

plane.> > > > > > When he was giving the dissertation he was speaking

from Guru's > > > perspective, but later he spoke as himself, as his

ego. We all > have that > > > duality within us, it is the ending of

that duality that is the > spiritual > > > seeker's ultimate goal. Or

at least this spiritual seekers > ultimate goal.> > > > > > I want to

walk around with god looking through my eyes and god > hearing > >

with > > > my ears.> > > > > > I think Kelly was saying that one does

not need a guru because > one is guru. > > > One's true self, or

higher self or oversoul or ParamAtman or what > ever you >

> > want to call it is guru. Even if we have not been initiated by a >

guru of > > > the flesh we can just as easily be initiated by a guru

within our > heart, or > > > even by our very own soul.> > > > > >

Paramahansa Yogananda once said that when the student is ready, > the

> > master > > > will appear. I don't think he was the first to say it

though, he > was just > > > the first I heard say it.> > > > > > If

you are ready to receive the light of god, then the master > will

appear > > > to you. If there are no physical masters around, then

she will > come in your > > > sleep or in your day dreams or in a

corner of your vision, or as > a little > > > voice in your head or

heart.> > > > > > I think our goal is to prepare a place for God(des)

in our

heart. > If we > > > make it fancy and full of love for her, then how

can she not come?> > > > > > There have been some reactions in this

thread lately. Everyone > needs to > > > check themselves and ask,

"have I reacted to something someone > has > > said?"> > > > > > And

let the question bounce around in your head and heart for a > while >

> > before you react and say, "No."> > > > > > If the answer is "Yes,"

then you need to accept it and ask > yourself, "Why > > > did I react?

What was so upsetting to me?"> > > > > > The answer to that question

may not come easily and it may not > feel good > > > when it does at

first, but it will be quite liberating. Of that > you can be > > >

sure.> > > > > > When present, drama

indicates unhealed trauma.> > > > > > So look around you and spot the

drama. Where is it originating > from? And > > > are you playing into

it? Are you making yourself part of the > drama? Are you > > > making

the drama in the first place?> > > > > > If so, why?> > > > > > Drama

is a very interesting subject. Humans make it all the time > and the >

> > answers to its causes are so fascinating. Why do you make drama? >

Anyone > > know?> > > > > > I know some of the reasons I make it. I'll

hold back for now > though. I'd > > > like you all to think about it

for a while, do some soul > searching.> > > > > > *hugs*> > > > > >

Brian> > > > > > > > > ---> > > Outgoing mail is

certified Virus Free.> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system

(http://www.grisoft.com).> > > Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321

- Release 10/6/2003To from this group, send an email

to:Your use of is

subject to the

 

The New with improved product search

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...