Guest guest Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Many think he is the same Babaji, many don't. It doesn't matter actually. The main thing is that one see's Guru beyond the form. The teachings are the same from what I can tell, so therefore for me, it's a non-issue. One thing about form, it can change especially with masters so when one can be in 2 bodies at once or change form, I'm the last one to comment on if he is the real one or not. Often times as devotee's we get stuck on form instead of substance and so it's important to understand the Guru's energy. From being in SRF's temple space and other Rebirthers and H.Babaji temples, the energy is identical. For me it doesn't matter because both are Mahaavatar, Guru. Yes, it was in a body from 1970, maniftested from light and then he gave himself a heart attack on Valentines Day 1984. He lived for 14 years in that body:) And yes, he does have the beautiful face, doesn't he?:)astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Kelly,Isn't Sri Harikhan Babaji the one who had the beautiful face? Didn't he leave his body in the early 1980's? I heard his heart exploded?!Didn't some people think this was the same Babaji as Paramahansa Yogananda's Babaji? I don't think he was the same, for one thing they look different. Roy Davis has a photo of the SRF Babaji taken in the 1920's and they are different people. Besides the SRF Babaji is still in his physical body.Astraea--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Sri Harikhan Babaji. Bole Baba Ki Jai! > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:Kelly,> An excellent post! Who was that Master who could take on 30 lbs & > lose it overnight? > > Astraea> > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Hi men. To join in here I have known one master who can loose 30 > pounds in 1 day of karmic material absorbed from his chela's. The > next day he was perfectly skinny. I think there is something within > the enrrgy field of a true master that absorbes the karma, like a > karma magnet. I do believe one thing, a master should not absorb > karma from a person who is not ready for the healing. If one has > the ability to clean out the karma for someone else, it has to be the > right time. I do believe that if the Guru and chela to be healed > meet, the the timing is already there due to the karma of coming > together. I do know at times in my own sadhana that I had the Will, > but had no idea How and then God took over. Maybe this is what > happens when the Guru starts to assist and take on one's karma, when > he see's the sincere intention. If the master is perfectly > surrendered, His will is Maa's will and therefore won't question the > process of taking it on as it will automatically happen. I see> > it more like energy transference, it happens all the time with > those we are around automatically, so therefore when around a Master > with a Big Boat, he would automatically take a larger load. > > Can we expand on this? I'd like more comments about this > intriguing subject:)> > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > Hi Chris,> > > > I understand that at a mental level.> > > > The point I'm trying to make is people treat karma as if its a bad > thing. Its not. Its all good, its all god. Instead of feeling that > karma is a burden we should treat it like a privilege, a service we > do for the goddess within us, a part of the whole process of > evolution, human and spiritual.> > > > Brian> > > > At 05:27 AM 10/5/2003 -0700, you wrote:> > > > Brian,> > > > I believe the laws of karma and the interplay of karma and the > lives of both ordinary people and sadhakas is much more subtle and > complex than it apparently appears to you. There is much that is > hidden from us, and since everything is interconnected, it is always > more complex that it first appears.> > > > Chris> > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > > > Hi Astraea,> > > > > > I think there's misunderstanding.> > > > > > At 04:56 AM 10/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:> > > > > > >Hi Brian!> > > > >Thanks for taking the time to respond.> > > > >Of course, if you do not believe there's any mitigation of > karma,> > > > >then that is what will manifest for you. I think that's sad --> just a> > > > >lot of unnecessary pain.> > > > >> > > > >Let me give you an example:> > > > >Let's say you have a painful splinter in your hand. You can> > > > >say, "This is my karma and there's nothing I can do about it. I > must> > > > >be brave and suffer the pain." Of course you can leave the > splinter> > > > >in until it gets infected and then maybe you can get blood > poisoning,> > > > >lose your hand, or maybe even die. So many opportunities for > you to> > > > >prove how strong you are.> > > > > > The karma is getting the splinter in the first place, that karma > could not > > > > be mitigated. However, how we react to the splinter is what is > important. > > > > And if we decide consciously or unconsciously that we deserve > the splinter > > > > and don't decide to try to help the healing along, then yes, its > very sad. > > > > Or if we get mad at the wood, or the person who asked us to help > them move > > > > the furniture it came from then we are allowing the wound to > fester and the > > > > pain to continue.> > > > > > > > >Or you can be sensible and let people with tweezers remove the> > > > >splinter and disinfect the wound to shield it from infection.> > > > >> > > > >The mantras, homas, yantras, gemstones, and various rituals are > like> > > > >the tweezers & disinfectant. If you don't want to use these > tools to> > > > >accelerate your healing & deflect the worst of your karma, > that's> > > > >your choice. I think it's just sad.> > > > > > Homas, mantras, meditation, seeking the truth, etc actually > cause the same > > > > work within us that getting the splinter does so we don't need > to get the > > > > splinter in the first place. Its not mitigating the karma, its > taking it > > > > consciously internally and allowing it to heal us, make us more > conscious.> > > > > > The practices are consciously choosing to let the karma into us > with the > > > > full understanding that it is Maa trying to heal us instead of > trying to > > > > deny the truth and karma and forcing it to be delivered on > Maya's time > > > > schedule in a way which we may not be prepared for.> > > > > > > > >This whole topic is a fascinating one to me and brings on a > whole> > > > >train of stories:> > > > >> > > > >Paramahansa Yogananda recounted a story of his Guru, Sri > Yukteswar,> > > > >trying to help a Westernized East Indian businessman by warning > him> > > > >that he must buy a large blue sapphire (gemstone upaye for > Saturn) to> > > > >protect himself. The businessman sneered. A serious illness > befell> > > > >the skeptical businessman. He implored Sri Yuksteswar to save > him.> > > > >Sri Yuksteswar told him that it was too late. If the man had > listened> > > > >to begin with, the (properly consecrated) large blue sapphire > would> > > > >have protected him from the worst of Saturn's rays. But now > Saturn> > > > >had done its worst and the sapphire was of no longer of any > use. The> > > > >businessman died.> > > > > > I read that story. To me that story was about the perils of > egotism. The > > > > business man's reaction was closed and therefore Maya delivered > the message > > > > of healing. In this case the healing was death, he will get > another > > > > opportunity in another life to learn to pay attention to inner > > > > consciousness as well as consciousness expressed through others.> > > > > > > > >My point is that this (properly consecrated) gemstone could have> > > > >saved the man from DEATH. That is how powerful these remedies > can be> > > > >in the hands of someone (like Sri Yukteswar) who knows how to > use> > > > >them.> > > > > > Death means nothing to me. I have died already in this life and > am not > > > > concerned about it. If I die tomorrow I come back at some point > in the > > > > future and my lessons continue. Since time doesn't really exist, > then it > > > > really only matters that I'm doing my best in the here and now. > I don't > > > > think the point of the story was to threaten people with death, > it was to > > > > show how unconscious reactions to the mirrors around us lead to > an > > > > unpreparedness for the prarabdha karma we are given in life.> > > > > > > > >On the other side of this: I remember reading that Colin Wilson > (one> > > > >of my favorite British writers) did not believe Sri Ramakrishna > was a> > > > >Satguru because Sri Ramakrishna did not reverse his cancer. The > thing> > > > >Colin Wilson does not understand is that a Satguru like Sri> > > > >Ramakrishna is in a state beyond Good & Evil, a state beyond all> > > > >duality and the cancer made no difference to him. He no longer> > > > >identified with the suffering of his physical body. (Sri > Ramakrishna> > > > >was probably taking on the karma of his disciples.) It's a > mystery.> > > > >But I'm sure that Sri Ramakrishna had the power to instantly > dissolve> > > > >the cancer had he wanted to.> > > > > > I agree. It was his time to go, how he went was unimportant. But > I believe > > > > to my core that Ramakrishna simply delayed the lessons contained > in the > > > > karma he took. Its ironic. I have a story to tell.> > > > > > Today Krista and I were at Devi Mandir for Annapurna Puja and > Sahasra Nam. > > > > Its a very nice Homa.> > > > > > I have been contemplating Ramakrishna's absorbtion of his > devotees karma > > > > for a couple of weeks and I could not think of a case where > taking that > > > > karma would be in any way shape or form good for the devotees. > The karma is > > > > there to teach, to heal, to evolve the soul, to delay it seemed > wrong to me.> > > > > > There is a practice which I will have to ask Swami Satyananda > about which > > > > forbids women who are menstruating to make offerings to the > fire. That > > > > makes no sense to me either. Who declared menstruation "dirty," > and mother > > > > may I please slap him around a bit? That's how I feel about it.> > > > > > But anyway, Krista and a couple of the other women couldn't > participate. It > > > > seemed so wrong to me. So I decided to throw masala into the > fire on their > > > > behalf, and I did too.> > > > > > And then it hit me. That's what Ramakrishna did for his > devotees, he threw > > > > masala into the fire for them because they were unable or > unwilling to do > > > > it for themselves. The fire is shakti and the karma can be > delivered by her > > > > directly into our spinal column or through the mirrors of Maya. > He chose to > > > > take the Maya portion of their karma and toss it to shakti for > them. I hope > > > > they learned from it.> > > > > > I still disagree with it in principal because I believe that > everything > > > > happens for a reason, that we should accept reality as it is, > and therefore > > > > I should have accepted these apparently archaic rules for the > current > > > > reality. It was my zealousness for imposing my truth onto > reality that > > > > caused me to interfere and I had nothing but the best of > intentions. Maybe > > > > that's what Ramakrishna did. Was it wrong? Hard to say. I guess > I'll have > > > > to watch my life for Maa's answer to that question.> > > > > > Now I understand much more. Synchronicity is amazing, ain't it? > And Maa, > > > > she's even more amazing.> > > > > > > > >I remember listening to Ammachi telling an interviewer that she > can> > > > >dissolve ALL of the karma of an advanced disciple (he/she must > be> > > > >VERY RIPE) to ensure his moksha.> > > > > > I find that conversation to be ego based. Why would a sat-guru > need to > > > > claim that at all, especially if it were true?> > > > > > > > >For those of us who have not reached the exalted consciousness > of a> > > > >Sri Ramakrishna, it's nice to know there are mantras & homas, > etc.> > > > >that can help mitigate the worst of our karma.> > > > > > Nope. They can teach us how to accept karma into our lives > consciously and > > > > with love at a time when we are prepared to receive it, then > allow it to > > > > heal us with love and understanding. I don't believe the > spiritual > > > > practices mitigate karma, I believe they help us learn how to > accept and > > > > love the process of evolution, instead of egoistically resisting > the process.> > > > > > Very good discussion.> > > > > > Lets keep it going.> > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > Brian> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > > > ---> > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003> > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > ---> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003> > ---> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003> > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Hi Kelly, About ten years ago I picked up a book on him called "I Am Harmony". I started to read it, then ended up just skimming it. I was not drawn to him (which just means he's not for me). Spiritual teachers can be very mysterious. As an example, almost nothing is really know about Bhagavan Nityananda, although there are many stories. I believe Bhagawan Nityananda was a genuine Satguru. Swami Muktananda claimed to be his successor, when in fact, Bhagawan Nityananda died without an official successor. He had three very advanced disciples, Swami Muktananda was one of these. You are the one who got to be around Sri Harikhan Babaji, so if he seemed like a genuine Satguru to you that's all that should matter to you. I had very powerful experiences around Gurumayi and from the Siddha Yoga techniques -- astral phenomena, lights and such. But I wish people had been honest with me about the stories around Swami Muktananda & Gurumayi -- I would not have wasted 12 years worshipping them. But SYDA covers things up & just out and out lies to their devotees. They commanded their devotees NOT to read the (14? Nov 1994) New Yorker article and sent squads out to libraries to destroy the article in that issue. There's a website called "Leaving Siddha Yoga" if you want to read the experiences of many, many ex-devotees. Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Hi Astrea.. > > Many think he is the same Babaji, many don't. It doesn't matter actually. The main thing is that one see's Guru beyond the form. The teachings are the same from what I can tell, so therefore for me, it's a non-issue. > > One thing about form, it can change especially with masters so when one can be in 2 bodies at once or change form, I'm the last one to comment on if he is the real one or not. Often times as devotee's we get stuck on form instead of substance and so it's important to understand the Guru's energy. From being in SRF's temple space and other Rebirthers and H.Babaji temples, the energy is identical. For me it doesn't matter because both are Mahaavatar, Guru. > > Yes, it was in a body from 1970, maniftested from light and then he gave himself a heart attack on Valentines Day 1984. He lived for 14 years in that body:) And yes, he does have the beautiful face, doesn't he? > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote: > Kelly, > Isn't Sri Harikhan Babaji the one who had the beautiful face? Didn't > he leave his body in the early 1980's? I heard his heart exploded?! > > Didn't some people think this was the same Babaji as Paramahansa > Yogananda's Babaji? I don't think he was the same, for one thing they > look different. Roy Davis has a photo of the SRF Babaji taken in the > 1920's and they are different people. Besides the SRF Babaji is still > in his physical body. > > Astraea > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote: > > Sri Harikhan Babaji. Bole Baba Ki Jai! > > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:Kelly, > > An excellent post! Who was that Master who could take on 30 lbs & > > lose it overnight? > > > > Astraea > > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote: > > > Hi men. To join in here I have known one master who can loose 30 > > pounds in 1 day of karmic material absorbed from his chela's. The > > next day he was perfectly skinny. I think there is something > within > > the enrrgy field of a true master that absorbes the karma, like a > > karma magnet. I do believe one thing, a master should not absorb > > karma from a person who is not ready for the healing. If one has > > the ability to clean out the karma for someone else, it has to be > the > > right time. I do believe that if the Guru and chela to be healed > > meet, the the timing is already there due to the karma of coming > > together. I do know at times in my own sadhana that I had the > Will, > > but had no idea How and then God took over. Maybe this is what > > happens when the Guru starts to assist and take on one's karma, > when > > he see's the sincere intention. If the master is perfectly > > surrendered, His will is Maa's will and therefore won't question > the > > process of taking it on as it will automatically happen. I see > > > it more like energy transference, it happens all the time with > > those we are around automatically, so therefore when around a > Master > > with a Big Boat, he would automatically take a larger load. > > > Can we expand on this? I'd like more comments about this > > intriguing subject:) > > > > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > I understand that at a mental level. > > > > > > The point I'm trying to make is people treat karma as if its a > bad > > thing. Its not. Its all good, its all god. Instead of feeling that > > karma is a burden we should treat it like a privilege, a service we > > do for the goddess within us, a part of the whole process of > > evolution, human and spiritual. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 05:27 AM 10/5/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > I believe the laws of karma and the interplay of karma and the > > lives of both ordinary people and sadhakas is much more subtle and > > complex than it apparently appears to you. There is much that is > > hidden from us, and since everything is interconnected, it is > always > > more complex that it first appears. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Astraea, > > > > > > > > > I think there's misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > > At 04:56 AM 10/5/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Hi Brian! > > > > > > >Thanks for taking the time to respond. > > > > > > >Of course, if you do not believe there's any mitigation of > > karma, > > > > > > >then that is what will manifest for you. I think that's sad -- > > > just a > > > > > > >lot of unnecessary pain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Let me give you an example: > > > > > > >Let's say you have a painful splinter in your hand. You can > > > > > > >say, "This is my karma and there's nothing I can do about it. > I > > must > > > > > > >be brave and suffer the pain." Of course you can leave the > > splinter > > > > > > >in until it gets infected and then maybe you can get blood > > poisoning, > > > > > > >lose your hand, or maybe even die. So many opportunities for > > you to > > > > > > >prove how strong you are. > > > > > > > > > The karma is getting the splinter in the first place, that > karma > > could not > > > > > > be mitigated. However, how we react to the splinter is what is > > important. > > > > > > And if we decide consciously or unconsciously that we deserve > > the splinter > > > > > > and don't decide to try to help the healing along, then yes, > its > > very sad. > > > > > > Or if we get mad at the wood, or the person who asked us to > help > > them move > > > > > > the furniture it came from then we are allowing the wound to > > fester and the > > > > > > pain to continue. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Or you can be sensible and let people with tweezers remove the > > > > > > >splinter and disinfect the wound to shield it from infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The mantras, homas, yantras, gemstones, and various rituals > are > > like > > > > > > >the tweezers & disinfectant. If you don't want to use these > > tools to > > > > > > >accelerate your healing & deflect the worst of your karma, > > that's > > > > > > >your choice. I think it's just sad. > > > > > > > > > Homas, mantras, meditation, seeking the truth, etc actually > > cause the same > > > > > > work within us that getting the splinter does so we don't need > > to get the > > > > > > splinter in the first place. Its not mitigating the karma, its > > taking it > > > > > > consciously internally and allowing it to heal us, make us > more > > conscious. > > > > > > > > > The practices are consciously choosing to let the karma into > us > > with the > > > > > > full understanding that it is Maa trying to heal us instead of > > trying to > > > > > > deny the truth and karma and forcing it to be delivered on > > Maya's time > > > > > > schedule in a way which we may not be prepared for. > > > > > > > > > > > > >This whole topic is a fascinating one to me and brings on a > > whole > > > > > > >train of stories: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Paramahansa Yogananda recounted a story of his Guru, Sri > > Yukteswar, > > > > > > >trying to help a Westernized East Indian businessman by > warning > > him > > > > > > >that he must buy a large blue sapphire (gemstone upaye for > > Saturn) to > > > > > > >protect himself. The businessman sneered. A serious illness > > befell > > > > > > >the skeptical businessman. He implored Sri Yuksteswar to save > > him. > > > > > > >Sri Yuksteswar told him that it was too late. If the man had > > listened > > > > > > >to begin with, the (properly consecrated) large blue sapphire > > would > > > > > > >have protected him from the worst of Saturn's rays. But now > > Saturn > > > > > > >had done its worst and the sapphire was of no longer of any > > use. The > > > > > > >businessman died. > > > > > > > > > I read that story. To me that story was about the perils of > > egotism. The > > > > > > business man's reaction was closed and therefore Maya > delivered > > the message > > > > > > of healing. In this case the healing was death, he will get > > another > > > > > > opportunity in another life to learn to pay attention to inner > > > > > > consciousness as well as consciousness expressed through > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > >My point is that this (properly consecrated) gemstone could > have > > > > > > >saved the man from DEATH. That is how powerful these remedies > > can be > > > > > > >in the hands of someone (like Sri Yukteswar) who knows how to > > use > > > > > > >them. > > > > > > > > > Death means nothing to me. I have died already in this life > and > > am not > > > > > > concerned about it. If I die tomorrow I come back at some > point > > in the > > > > > > future and my lessons continue. Since time doesn't really > exist, > > then it > > > > > > really only matters that I'm doing my best in the here and > now. > > I don't > > > > > > think the point of the story was to threaten people with > death, > > it was to > > > > > > show how unconscious reactions to the mirrors around us lead > to > > an > > > > > > unpreparedness for the prarabdha karma we are given in life. > > > > > > > > > > > > >On the other side of this: I remember reading that Colin > Wilson > > (one > > > > > > >of my favorite British writers) did not believe Sri > Ramakrishna > > was a > > > > > > >Satguru because Sri Ramakrishna did not reverse his cancer. > The > > thing > > > > > > >Colin Wilson does not understand is that a Satguru like Sri > > > > > > >Ramakrishna is in a state beyond Good & Evil, a state beyond > all > > > > > > >duality and the cancer made no difference to him. He no longer > > > > > > >identified with the suffering of his physical body. (Sri > > Ramakrishna > > > > > > >was probably taking on the karma of his disciples.) It's a > > mystery. > > > > > > >But I'm sure that Sri Ramakrishna had the power to instantly > > dissolve > > > > > > >the cancer had he wanted to. > > > > > > > > > I agree. It was his time to go, how he went was unimportant. > But > > I believe > > > > > > to my core that Ramakrishna simply delayed the lessons > contained > > in the > > > > > > karma he took. Its ironic. I have a story to tell. > > > > > > > > > Today Krista and I were at Devi Mandir for Annapurna Puja and > > Sahasra Nam. > > > > > > Its a very nice Homa. > > > > > > > > > I have been contemplating Ramakrishna's absorbtion of his > > devotees karma > > > > > > for a couple of weeks and I could not think of a case where > > taking that > > > > > > karma would be in any way shape or form good for the devotees. > > The karma is > > > > > > there to teach, to heal, to evolve the soul, to delay it > seemed > > wrong to me. > > > > > > > > > There is a practice which I will have to ask Swami Satyananda > > about which > > > > > > forbids women who are menstruating to make offerings to the > > fire. That > > > > > > makes no sense to me either. Who declared > menstruation "dirty," > > and mother > > > > > > may I please slap him around a bit? That's how I feel about it. > > > > > > > > > But anyway, Krista and a couple of the other women couldn't > > participate. It > > > > > > seemed so wrong to me. So I decided to throw masala into the > > fire on their > > > > > > behalf, and I did too. > > > > > > > > > And then it hit me. That's what Ramakrishna did for his > > devotees, he threw > > > > > > masala into the fire for them because they were unable or > > unwilling to do > > > > > > it for themselves. The fire is shakti and the karma can be > > delivered by her > > > > > > directly into our spinal column or through the mirrors of > Maya. > > He chose to > > > > > > take the Maya portion of their karma and toss it to shakti for > > them. I hope > > > > > > they learned from it. > > > > > > > > > I still disagree with it in principal because I believe that > > everything > > > > > > happens for a reason, that we should accept reality as it is, > > and therefore > > > > > > I should have accepted these apparently archaic rules for the > > current > > > > > > reality. It was my zealousness for imposing my truth onto > > reality that > > > > > > caused me to interfere and I had nothing but the best of > > intentions. Maybe > > > > > > that's what Ramakrishna did. Was it wrong? Hard to say. I > guess > > I'll have > > > > > > to watch my life for Maa's answer to that question. > > > > > > > > > Now I understand much more. Synchronicity is amazing, ain't > it? > > And Maa, > > > > > > she's even more amazing. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I remember listening to Ammachi telling an interviewer that > she > > can > > > > > > >dissolve ALL of the karma of an advanced disciple (he/she > must > > be > > > > > > >VERY RIPE) to ensure his moksha. > > > > > > > > > I find that conversation to be ego based. Why would a sat- guru > > need to > > > > > > claim that at all, especially if it were true? > > > > > > > > > > > > >For those of us who have not reached the exalted > consciousness > > of a > > > > > > >Sri Ramakrishna, it's nice to know there are mantras & homas, > > etc. > > > > > > >that can help mitigate the worst of our karma. > > > > > > > > > Nope. They can teach us how to accept karma into our lives > > consciously and > > > > > > with love at a time when we are prepared to receive it, then > > allow it to > > > > > > heal us with love and understanding. I don't believe the > > spiritual > > > > > > practices mitigate karma, I believe they help us learn how to > > accept and > > > > > > love the process of evolution, instead of egoistically > resisting > > the process. > > > > > > > > > Very good discussion. > > > > > > > > > Lets keep it going. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: > 9/29/2003 > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > --- > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003 > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 9, 2003 I Am Harmony did not catch me either. I know devotee's who witnessed Babaji in his last form and they told me of how his weight always fluctated and the comments he made about it. I found out about Babaji in 1990 from my rebirther. Then after connecting to him I have had dreams where he comes to give me instruction, or to scold me. Yes, he has had to scold me, but he was right... He made a huge impression on me and especially in dreams when he would come to me. I also have dreams of my diksa Guru alot as well as Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, Their disciples, Kishna, Kali and Siva. I'm very lucky to have a vivid dream life. I never had a physical Guru until recently and that took adjustment. I'm used to Guru coming thru everything, so long as we can identify SatGuru teachings, we are connected to SatGuru. Namaste, Kelly astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Hi Kelly,About ten years ago I picked up a book on him called "I Am Harmony". I started to read it, then ended up just skimming it. I was not drawn to him (which just means he's not for me).Spiritual teachers can be very mysterious. As an example, almost nothing is really know about Bhagavan Nityananda, although there are many stories. I believe Bhagawan Nityananda was a genuine Satguru. Swami Muktananda claimed to be his successor, when in fact, Bhagawan Nityananda died without an official successor. He had three very advanced disciples, Swami Muktananda was one of these.You are the one who got to be around Sri Harikhan Babaji, so if he seemed like a genuine Satguru to you that's all that should matter to you.I had very powerful experiences around Gurumayi and from the Siddha Yoga techniques -- astral phenomena, lights and such. But I wish people had been honest with me about the stories around Swami Muktananda & Gurumayi -- I would not have wasted 12 years worshipping them. But SYDA covers things up & just out and out lies to their devotees. They commanded their devotees NOT to read the (14? Nov 1994) New Yorker article and sent squads out to libraries to destroy the article in that issue. There's a website called "Leaving Siddha Yoga" if you want to read the experiences of many, many ex-devotees.Astraea, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi Astrea..> > Many think he is the same Babaji, many don't. It doesn't matter actually. The main thing is that one see's Guru beyond the form. The teachings are the same from what I can tell, so therefore for me, it's a non-issue. > > One thing about form, it can change especially with masters so when one can be in 2 bodies at once or change form, I'm the last one to comment on if he is the real one or not. Often times as devotee's we get stuck on form instead of substance and so it's important to understand the Guru's energy. >From being in SRF's temple space and other Rebirthers and H.Babaji temples, the energy is identical. For me it doesn't matter because both are Mahaavatar, Guru.> > Yes, it was in a body from 1970, maniftested from light and then he gave himself a heart attack on Valentines Day 1984. He lived for 14 years in that body:) And yes, he does have the beautiful face, doesn't he?> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Kelly,> Isn't Sri Harikhan Babaji the one who had the beautiful face? Didn't > he leave his body in the early 1980's? I heard his heart exploded?!> > Didn't some people think this was the same Babaji as Paramahansa > Yogananda's Babaji? I don't think he was the same, for one thing they > look different. Roy Davis has a photo of the SRF Babaji taken in the > 1920's and they are different people. Besides the SRF Babaji is still > in his physical body.> > Astraea> > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Sri Harikhan Babaji. Bole Baba Ki Jai! > > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:Kelly,> > An excellent post! Who was that Master who could take on 30 lbs & > > lose it overnight? > > > > Astraea> > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote:> > > Hi men. To join in here I have known one master who can loose 30 > > pounds in 1 day of karmic material absorbed from his chela's. The > > next day he was perfectly skinny. I think there is something > within > > the enrrgy field of a true master that absorbes the karma, like a > > karma magnet. I do believe one thing, a master should not absorb > > karma from a person who is not ready for the healing. If one has > > the ability to clean out the karma for someone else, it has to be > the > > right time. I do believe that if the Guru and chela to be healed > > meet, the the timing is already there due to the karma of coming > > together. I do know at times in my own sadhana that I had the > Will, > > but had no idea How and then God took over. Maybe this is what > > happens when the Guru starts to assist and take on one's karma, > when > > he see's the sincere intention. If the master is perfectly > > surrendered, His will is Maa's will and therefore won't question > the > > process of taking it on as it will automatically happen. I see> > > it more like energy transference, it happens all the time with > > those we are around automatically, so therefore when around a > Master > > with a Big Boat, he would automatically take a larger load. > > > Can we expand on this? I'd like more comments about this > > intriguing subject:)> > > > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > > Hi Chris,> > > > > > I understand that at a mental level.> > > > > > The point I'm trying to make is people treat karma as if its a > bad > > thing. Its not. Its all good, its all god. Instead of feeling that > > karma is a burden we should treat it like a privilege, a service we > > do for the goddess within us, a part of the whole process of > > evolution, human and spiritual.> > > > > > Brian> > > > > > At 05:27 AM 10/5/2003 -0700, you wrote:> > > > > > Brian,> > > > > > I believe the laws of karma and the interplay of karma and the > > lives of both ordinary people and sadhakas is much more subtle and > > complex than it apparently appears to you. There is much that is > > hidden from us, and since everything is interconnected, it is > always > > more complex that it first appears.> > > > > > Chris> > > > > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> > > > > > Hi Astraea,> > > > > > > > > I think there's misunderstanding.> > > > > > > > > At 04:56 AM 10/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:> > > > > > > > > >Hi Brian!> > > > > > >Thanks for taking the time to respond.> > > > > > >Of course, if you do not believe there's any mitigation of > > karma,> > > > > > >then that is what will manifest for you. I think that's sad --> > > just a> > > > > > >lot of unnecessary pain.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Let me give you an example:> > > > > > >Let's say you have a painful splinter in your hand. You can> > > > > > >say, "This is my karma and there's nothing I can do about it. > I > > must> > > > > > >be brave and suffer the pain." Of course you can leave the > > splinter> > > > > > >in until it gets infected and then maybe you can get blood > > poisoning,> > > > > > >lose your hand, or maybe even die. So many opportunities for > > you to> > > > > > >prove how strong you are.> > > > > > > > > The karma is getting the splinter in the first place, that > karma > > could not > > > > > > be mitigated. However, how we react to the splinter is what is > > important. > > > > > > And if we decide consciously or unconsciously that we deserve > > the splinter > > > > > > and don't decide to try to help the healing along, then yes, > its > > very sad. > > > > > > Or if we get mad at the wood, or the person who asked us to > help > > them move > > > > > > the furniture it came from then we are allowing the wound to > > fester and the > > > > > > pain to continue.> > > > > > > > > > > > >Or you can be sensible and let people with tweezers remove the> > > > > > >splinter and disinfect the wound to shield it from infection.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >The mantras, homas, yantras, gemstones, and various rituals > are > > like> > > > > > >the tweezers & disinfectant. If you don't want to use these > > tools to> > > > > > >accelerate your healing & deflect the worst of your karma, > > that's> > > > > > >your choice. I think it's just sad.> > > > > > > > > Homas, mantras, meditation, seeking the truth, etc actually > > cause the same > > > > > > work within us that getting the splinter does so we don't need > > to get the > > > > > > splinter in the first place. Its not mitigating the karma, its > > taking it > > > > > > consciously internally and allowing it to heal us, make us > more > > conscious.> > > > > > > > > The practices are consciously choosing to let the karma into > us > > with the > > > > > > full understanding that it is Maa trying to heal us instead of > > trying to > > > > > > deny the truth and karma and forcing it to be delivered on > > Maya's time > > > > > > schedule in a way which we may not be prepared for.> > > > > > > > > > > > >This whole topic is a fascinating one to me and brings on a > > whole> > > > > > >train of stories:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Paramahansa Yogananda recounted a story of his Guru, Sri > > Yukteswar,> > > > > > >trying to help a Westernized East Indian businessman by > warning > > him> > > > > > >that he must buy a large blue sapphire (gemstone upaye for > > Saturn) to> > > > > > >protect himself. The businessman sneered. A serious illness > > befell> > > > > > >the skeptical businessman. He implored Sri Yuksteswar to save > > him.> > > > > > >Sri Yuksteswar told him that it was too late. If the man had > > listened> > > > > > >to begin with, the (properly consecrated) large blue sapphire > > would> > > > > > >have protected him from the worst of Saturn's rays. But now > > Saturn> > > > > > >had done its worst and the sapphire was of no longer of any > > use. The> > > > > > >businessman died.> > > > > > > > > I read that story. To me that story was about the perils of > > egotism. The > > > > > > business man's reaction was closed and therefore Maya > delivered > > the message > > > > > > of healing. In this case the healing was death, he will get > > another > > > > > > opportunity in another life to learn to pay attention to inner > > > > > > consciousness as well as consciousness expressed through > others.> > > > > > > > > > > > >My point is that this (properly consecrated) gemstone could > have> > > > > > >saved the man from DEATH. That is how powerful these remedies > > can be> > > > > > >in the hands of someone (like Sri Yukteswar) who knows how to > > use> > > > > > >them.> > > > > > > > > Death means nothing to me. I have died already in this life > and > > am not > > > > > > concerned about it. If I die tomorrow I come back at some > point > > in the > > > > > > future and my lessons continue. Since time doesn't really > exist, > > then it > > > > > > really only matters that I'm doing my best in the here and > now. > > I don't > > > > > > think the point of the story was to threaten people with > death, > > it was to > > > > > > show how unconscious reactions to the mirrors around us lead > to > > an > > > > > > unpreparedness for the prarabdha karma we are given in life.> > > > > > > > > > > > >On the other side of this: I remember reading that Colin > Wilson > > (one> > > > > > >of my favorite British writers) did not believe Sri > Ramakrishna > > was a> > > > > > >Satguru because Sri Ramakrishna did not reverse his cancer. > The > > thing> > > > > > >Colin Wilson does not understand is that a Satguru like Sri> > > > > > >Ramakrishna is in a state beyond Good & Evil, a state beyond > all> > > > > > >duality and the cancer made no difference to him. He no longer> > > > > > >identified with the suffering of his physical body. (Sri > > Ramakrishna> > > > > > >was probably taking on the karma of his disciples.) It's a > > mystery.> > > > > > >But I'm sure that Sri Ramakrishna had the power to instantly > > dissolve> > > > > > >the cancer had he wanted to.> > > > > > > > > I agree. It was his time to go, how he went was unimportant. > But > > I believe > > > > > > to my core that Ramakrishna simply delayed the lessons > contained > > in the > > > > > > karma he took. Its ironic. I have a story to tell.> > > > > > > > > Today Krista and I were at Devi Mandir for Annapurna Puja and > > Sahasra Nam. > > > > > > Its a very nice Homa.> > > > > > > > > I have been contemplating Ramakrishna's absorbtion of his > > devotees karma > > > > > > for a couple of weeks and I could not think of a case where > > taking that > > > > > > karma would be in any way shape or form good for the devotees. > > The karma is > > > > > > there to teach, to heal, to evolve the soul, to delay it > seemed > > wrong to me.> > > > > > > > > There is a practice which I will have to ask Swami Satyananda > > about which > > > > > > forbids women who are menstruating to make offerings to the > > fire. That > > > > > > makes no sense to me either. Who declared > menstruation "dirty," > > and mother > > > > > > may I please slap him around a bit? That's how I feel about it.> > > > > > > > > But anyway, Krista and a couple of the other women couldn't > > participate. It > > > > > > seemed so wrong to me. So I decided to throw masala into the > > fire on their > > > > > > behalf, and I did too.> > > > > > > > > And then it hit me. That's what Ramakrishna did for his > > devotees, he threw > > > > > > masala into the fire for them because they were unable or > > unwilling to do > > > > > > it for themselves. The fire is shakti and the karma can be > > delivered by her > > > > > > directly into our spinal column or through the mirrors of > Maya. > > He chose to > > > > > > take the Maya portion of their karma and toss it to shakti for > > them. I hope > > > > > > they learned from it.> > > > > > > > > I still disagree with it in principal because I believe that > > everything > > > > > > happens for a reason, that we should accept reality as it is, > > and therefore > > > > > > I should have accepted these apparently archaic rules for the > > current > > > > > > reality. It was my zealousness for imposing my truth onto > > reality that > > > > > > caused me to interfere and I had nothing but the best of > > intentions. Maybe > > > > > > that's what Ramakrishna did. Was it wrong? Hard to say. I > guess > > I'll have > > > > > > to watch my life for Maa's answer to that question.> > > > > > > > > Now I understand much more. Synchronicity is amazing, ain't > it? > > And Maa, > > > > > > she's even more amazing.> > > > > > > > > > > > >I remember listening to Ammachi telling an interviewer that > she > > can> > > > > > >dissolve ALL of the karma of an advanced disciple (he/she > must > > be> > > > > > >VERY RIPE) to ensure his moksha.> > > > > > > > > I find that conversation to be ego based. Why would a sat-guru > > need to > > > > > > claim that at all, especially if it were true?> > > > > > > > > > > > >For those of us who have not reached the exalted > consciousness > > of a> > > > > > >Sri Ramakrishna, it's nice to know there are mantras & homas, > > etc.> > > > > > >that can help mitigate the worst of our karma.> > > > > > > > > Nope. They can teach us how to accept karma into our lives > > consciously and > > > > > > with love at a time when we are prepared to receive it, then > > allow it to > > > > > > heal us with love and understanding. I don't believe the > > spiritual > > > > > > practices mitigate karma, I believe they help us learn how to > > accept and > > > > > > love the process of evolution, instead of egoistically > resisting > > the process.> > > > > > > > > Very good discussion.> > > > > > > > > Lets keep it going.> > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > Brian> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > ---> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > > > > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release > 9/29/2003> > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > Service. > > > ---> > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003> > > ---> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release 9/29/2003> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search> > > > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > The New Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Kelly, I most definitely believe Gurus & Gods/Goddesses can come to you in dreams! I have only seen one Hindu deity in my dreams. About 17 years ago, I saw this most incredibly beautiful female face I've ever seen. Such a perfect face: it looked human and yet it was beyond human in its perfection and radiance, a preternatural beauty. She bent down over me while I was in bed and smiled at me. It was Durga. I don't know how I know that. You are very lucky to be in the physical presence of Shree Maa! Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Hi A~ > > I Am Harmony did not catch me either. I know devotee's who witnessed Babaji in his last form and they told me of how his weight always fluctated and the comments he made about it. I found out about Babaji in 1990 from my rebirther. Then after connecting to him I have had dreams where he comes to give me instruction, or to scold me. Yes, he has had to scold me, but he was right... He made a huge impression on me and especially in dreams when he would come to me. I also have dreams of my diksa Guru alot as well as Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, Their disciples, Kishna, Kali and Siva. I'm very lucky to have a vivid dream life. I never had a physical Guru until recently and that took adjustment. I'm used to Guru coming thru everything, so long as we can identify SatGuru teachings, we are connected to SatGuru. > > Namaste, > Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 10, 2003 I would be lucky if I were there right now. Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Kelly,I most definitely believe Gurus & Gods/Goddesses can come to you in dreams! I have only seen one Hindu deity in my dreams. About 17 years ago, I saw this most incredibly beautiful female face I've ever seen. Such a perfect face: it looked human and yet it was beyond human in its perfection and radiance, a preternatural beauty. She bent down over me while I was in bed and smiled at me. It was Durga. I don't know how I know that.You are very lucky to be in the physical presence of Shree Maa! Astraea, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi A~> > I Am Harmony did not catch me either. I know devotee's who witnessed Babaji in his last form and they told me of how his weight always fluctated and the comments he made about it. I found out about Babaji in 1990 from my rebirther. Then after connecting to him I have had dreams where he comes to give me instruction, or to scold me. Yes, he has had to scold me, but he was right... He made a huge impression on me and especially in dreams when he would come to me. I also have dreams of my diksa Guru alot as well as Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, Their disciples, Kishna, Kali and Siva. I'm very lucky to have a vivid dream life. I never had a physical Guru until recently and that took adjustment. I'm used to Guru coming thru everything, so long as we can identify SatGuru teachings, we are connected to SatGuru. > > Namaste,> KellyTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 11, 2003 Kelly, Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you mean. Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Let me correct myself. When I say Ma or Maa, it's not neccessarily the physcial presence of Shree Maa. I have never met her personally. I plan on that in the next few months though when I get vacation time in Janurary. When I say Ma, I mean MaKali, Chandi which isn't different, but I didn't want you to think I was in Napa at the ashram. > I would be lucky if I were there right now. > > Kelly > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote: > Kelly, > I most definitely believe Gurus & Gods/Goddesses can come to you in > dreams! I have only seen one Hindu deity in my dreams. About 17 years > ago, I saw this most incredibly beautiful female face I've ever seen. > Such a perfect face: it looked human and yet it was beyond human in > its perfection and radiance, a preternatural beauty. She bent down > over me while I was in bed and smiled at me. It was Durga. I don't > know how I know that. > > You are very lucky to be in the physical presence of Shree Maa! > > Astraea > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote: > > Hi A~ > > > > I Am Harmony did not catch me either. I know devotee's who > witnessed Babaji in his last form and they told me of how his weight > always fluctated and the comments he made about it. I found out > about Babaji in 1990 from my rebirther. Then after connecting to him > I have had dreams where he comes to give me instruction, or to scold > me. Yes, he has had to scold me, but he was right... He made a huge > impression on me and especially in dreams when he would come to me. > I also have dreams of my diksa Guru alot as well as Ramakrishna, Holy > Mother, Their disciples, Kishna, Kali and Siva. I'm very lucky to > have a vivid dream life. I never had a physical Guru until recently > and that took adjustment. I'm used to Guru coming thru everything, > so long as we can identify SatGuru teachings, we are connected to > SatGuru. > > > > Namaste, > > Kelly > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
