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Namaste Swamiji!

 

I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use

it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be

purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them.

 

Do you use these yourself? Can you help?

Thank you.

Astraea

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, "astraea2003" <astraea2003>

wrote:

> Namaste Swamiji!

>

> I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use

> it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be

> purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them.

>

> Do you use these yourself? Can you help?

> Thank you.

> Astraea

 

You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books contain

yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the

sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include

asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well as

some of the online classes.

 

Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it

glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to

shine with or without the sun.

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Hi Rudran2,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not

answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the

brass yantras.

 

Astraea

 

, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote:

> , "astraea2003"

<astraea2003>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Swamiji!

> >

> > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to

use

> > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be

> > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them.

> >

> > Do you use these yourself? Can you help?

> > Thank you.

> > Astraea

>

> You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books

contain

> yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the

> sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include

> asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well

as

> some of the online classes.

>

> Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it

> glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to

> shine with or without the sun.

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salutations swamiji,

 

i too am curious about yantras, how do you use them? for someone who is on a

tight budget, my husband says if i buy one more book right now, we will have to

build a new room!haha

 

how should one begin to use these symbols?

t

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Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what I have witnessed

Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned

taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the

yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just

as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja

to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as

a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this

would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru

that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare

and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it

might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or

provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as

a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you

were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no different.

Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that

Ma provides and the sadhana, purification that comes from Her ordeals.

Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my

karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy...

Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling,

otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of

learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in

charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right

teacher for you will appear?

Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As she

does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because you

are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when you

are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma,

you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest

thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving

up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide

to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra

or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you.

Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?

Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal?

Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Rudran2,Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response

does not answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to

use the brass yantras.Astraea,

"rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote:> --- In

, "astraea2003" <astraea2003> >

wrote:> > Namaste Swamiji!> > > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord

Ganesh, but do not know how to use > > it. There are a number of

websites where brass yantras can be > > purchased, but no clear

instructions on how to worship using them.> > > > Do you use these

yourself? Can you help?> > Thank you.> > Astraea> > You don't really

need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books contain > yantras which

work very effectively and they can be drawn in the > sand. A yantra is

only a part of an effort which should include > asanna and mantras.

This stuff is covered in the DM books as well as > some of the online

classes. > > Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up

and let it > glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow

yourself to > shine with or without the sun.To from this

group, send an email to:Your

use of is subject to the

 

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Swami would know how to use them. You might get some insight by

looking at the big Shiva Puja book. It has a yantra on the back

cover. I've seen brass yantras in Indian stores, but I certainly

don't know how to use them.

 

 

, "astraea2003" <astraea2003>

wrote:

> Hi Rudran2,

> Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not

> answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the

> brass yantras.

>

> Astraea

>

> , "rudran2" <stechiekov>

wrote:

> > , "astraea2003"

> <astraea2003>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste Swamiji!

> > >

> > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to

> use

> > > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be

> > > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using

them.

> > >

> > > Do you use these yourself? Can you help?

> > > Thank you.

> > > Astraea

> >

> > You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books

> contain

> > yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the

> > sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include

> > asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well

> as

> > some of the online classes.

> >

> > Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it

> > glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to

> > shine with or without the sun.

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i too would like to know, will monitor post.

cm

 

In a message dated Sat, 4 Oct 2003 8:28:26 PM AEST, "astraea2003"

<astraea2003 writes:

>Hi Rudran2,

>Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not

>answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the

>brass yantras.

>

>Astraea

>

>, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote:

>> , "astraea2003"

><astraea2003>

>> wrote:

>> > Namaste Swamiji!

>> >

>> > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to

>use

>> > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be

>> > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them.

>> >

>> > Do you use these yourself? Can you help?

>> > Thank you.

>> > Astraea

>>

>> You don't really need a brass yantra.  The Devi Mandir books

>contain

>> yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the

>> sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include

>> asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well

>as

>> some of the online classes.

>>

>> Still, a brass yantra is pretty.  Why not shrine it up and let it

>> glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to

>> shine with or without the sun.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Hi Kelly!

Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with great

interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real one. I

think breathwork is worth exploring.

 

It looks like traditional Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll

have to get my notes out on the different ways there are on how to

worship the Yantra. I was hoping for a clear & simple method.

 

I'm not in Southern Cal or anywhere near. Have lived in many

different places (no, my family was NOT military -- usually the next

question). I am currently living in the Deep South and am quite

isolated. This idea of having cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real

boon to isolates like me.

 

No, I do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called

Siddha Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker"

(14 November 1994 I think) came out and I knew the reporter was

telling the truth.

 

Swami Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was

also a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians

in his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and

all the traditional yogic values.

 

In private he had a specially built table for his sex rites with

underage girls, as well as women. He would steal their energies. No

real Satguru would have to resort to such rituals. But these rituals

are well known among sorcerers. He allowed people to worship him as a

Satguru.

 

When I realized what he was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the

feet of the Sufi masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi

Order (non-Muslim).

 

To be continued.

Astraea

 

 

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

wrote:

> Hi Astrea,

>

> Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is

what I have witnessed

> Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned

taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the

yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just

as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja

to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as

a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this

would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru

that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare

and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it

might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or

provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as

a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you

were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no

different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides

and the sadhana, purification that comes from

> Her ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to

maniplate all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste

of energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most

fulfilling, otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson

instead of learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think

it's in charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the

right teacher for you will appear?

>

> Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As

she does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because

you are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when

you are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your

Ma, you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the

hardest thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or

giving up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will

decide to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the

yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you.

> Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?

>

> Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in

southern Cal?

>

> Kelly

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Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:

 

I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are

real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to

Hindu things.

 

Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes

beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.

 

Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very

impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor

her.

 

I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness

there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)

 

I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to

1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books

are a treasure trove.

 

Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental

Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never

revealed my mantra.

This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.

 

What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa?

 

Astraea

 

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

wrote:

> Hi Astrea,

Do you have a Guru?

 

Kelly

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I'm really sorry to hear that about S. Muktananda, but glad to hear

you're happy with Sufism. Swami Rama wrote that Sufism has its

foundation in the traditions and practices of the Himalayan sages. I

understood they practice diksha...perhaps you're a bit guru-shy. I

wouldn't blame you a bit. When I left the physical Christian church I

avoided entanglement with any group for years because of the pain. I'm

still a bit group-shy.

As far as breathwork is concerned, if you spent that much time with

Muktananda you must have done some pranayama. I am not very advanced

in my pranayama practice, but I have found it of immense value.

Chris

Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Kelly!Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with

great interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real

one. I think breathwork is worth exploring.It looks like traditional

Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll have to get my notes out

on the different ways there are on how to worship the Yantra. I was

hoping for a clear & simple method.I'm not in Southern Cal or

anywhere near. Have lived in many different places (no, my family was

NOT military -- usually the next question). I am currently living in

the Deep South and am quite isolated. This idea of having

cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real boon to isolates like me.No, I

do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called Siddha

Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker" (14

November 1994 I

think) came out and I knew the reporter was telling the truth. Swami

Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was also

a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians in

his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and

all the traditional yogic values. In private he had a specially built

table for his sex rites with underage girls, as well as women. He

would steal their energies. No real Satguru would have to resort to

such rituals. But these rituals are well known among sorcerers. He

allowed people to worship him as a Satguru.When I realized what he

was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the feet of the Sufi

masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi Order

(non-Muslim).To be continued.Astraea--- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi

Astrea,> >

Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what

I have witnessed> Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra.

Rudran2 mentioned taking up puja and this is the traditional way of

worshiping the yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the

diety and just as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one

would perform puja to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some

devotee's use it as a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery'

side, however this would be up to the individual and the Guru one has.

To find a Guru that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the

Yantra is rare and most would not disclose that information. However,

I think it might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach

you puja or provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are

worshiped, as a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common

just

as if you were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no

different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides

and the sadhana, purification that comes from> Her ordeals.

Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my

karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy...

Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling,

otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of

learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in

charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right

teacher for you will appear? > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on

her tiger and you on her lap. As she does battle with your demon's

or karma you are uneffected because you are on her Lap and no one is

going to come close to Chandi when you are on her lap, are

they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma, you don't even

notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest thing to

understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving up. It's

the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide to either

give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra or she

will chose a different karma /dharma for you.> Trust that the right

thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?> > Hope this helped.

Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal?> >

KellyTo from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

 

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I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and

Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by

their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your faith in. I

think there is perhaps nothing more important for a serious seeker.

Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:I did not stay with the

Sufis for long -- even though I know they are real and can lead a

seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to Hindu things.Next I went

to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes beautiful chanting

tapes/CD's and I do use those.Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata

Amritanandamayi) and was very impressed. She gave me my spiritual

name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor her.I am drawn to the sound of

Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness there. (A couple of her CD's &

video tapes just arrived today.)I am also very impressed with Omraam

Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who

taught in France. His books are a treasure trove.Oh I forgot to

mention I was also initiated into Transcendental Meditation

way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never revealed my

mantra.This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.What

is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? Astraea--- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi

Astrea, Do you have a Guru? KellyTo from this group,

send an email to:Your use of

is subject to the

 

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Hi Astraea,

Good to hear from you. I have never actually been to the Institute

(it's a long story). But I met Pandit Rajmani Tigunait a couple of

years ago when he came through on a Sacred Link tour, and though we

didn't really talk, I came away deeply impressed with his humility.

It was a palpable force that I didn't fully recognize until after he

was gone. There was no self-aggrandizement, no posturing of any kind.

I was humbled.

As far as Swami Rama is concerned, let me begin by saying that I have

never met him, but if there is anything worthwhile about my life

today it belongs largely to him. I owe him everything.

I was out of the information loop where the Institute and Swamiji were

concerned from about 1988-1997. I didn't even know Swamiji had dropped

his body for about six months afterward. As I later learned by reading

At The Eleventh Hour, it was during this period that Swamiji was

already preparing to leave; there were extremes in Swamiji's

behavior, periods of long absence, and turmoil of various kinds,

people leaving, lawsuits, and accusations. If you recall from

Autobiography of a Yogi, SRF went through a similar experience, which

P. Yogananda referred to as a time of testing.

I first learned of the accusations when I came across an old copy of

Yoga Journal in which there was a letter to the editor mentioning the

sexual accusations against Swamiji. At first I was deeply hurt, shaken

to my core, but I decided it didn't really matter. Truth told, I tend

not to believe the accusations, but even if they are true, on their

face, the being I perceived him to be, and the gifts he gave me, are

beyond any merely human error he might have made in his life.

However, there are people who, if they feel threatened or slighted by

another, will not hesitate to level all manner of accusations in what

they feel to be rightious anger.

These people can be very persuasive.

In the end it really doesn't matter. Swamiji's life will not be

measured in the worldly court of public opinion, but in a much more

subtle and powerful realm, in the hearts and minds of those whose

lives he touched, in those for whom he selflessly labored without

even so much as a conscious recognition of his aid. Such a one am I.

About Siddha Yoga--that's very interesting. It sounds something like

modern mainstream Christianity, with an emphasis on salvation through

grace and faith rather than spiritual practices. I'm really surprised.

You really know your Sufism. Yes. When I made reference to Sufism and

the Himalayan tradition having the same roots, that's exactly what I

meant. You see, in Swami Rama's tradition, and I believe, that of all

the great Himalayan masters, there is no real identification with

religion of any kind, but rather with the Vedic tradition, which is

not considered to be Hindu, but the mother of all spiritual practice.

Much older than even the oldest written spiritual documents, it's

origin is lost in the shadows of antiquity. Even after so much has

been written down to prevent its loss, so does much still remain

unwritten, passed from master to student in an unbroken chain. I am

given to understand that in its most basic sense, Veda means, direct

experience. Your relation of the fact that breath awareness is

stressed from the begining, gives credence, in my mind, to the belief

that Sufism is a living tributary of that great stream of spiritual

knowledge that flows

uninterrupted from that one great tradition.

You can see from my last comment how important I consider pranayama to

be. I have read, and my own experience suggests, that such practice is

not necessary for a bhakta because God does it all for the fully

surrendered sadhaka engaged only in worship. But for the rest of us,

in my opinion, pranayama is the key to dhyana. In my experience,

prana is dhyana.

In the begining I practiced the two to one, full yogic breath; a full,

diaphragmatic breath with one part inhalation to two parts exhalation,

as slowly as is comfortable, through the nose, without any noises or

jerks.

I also practiced nadi shodhanam or the nadi purification, called the

alternate nostril breath. I did not practice this one as much as I

should have. In its basic form, one inhales through one nostril

(blocking the other with either the thumb or ring finger), then

exhales through the other. One inhales through the same nostril three

times, then switches sides. Immediately after the third exhalation,

one inhales from the same nostril, exhaling then from the other, also

three times. The inhalations and exhalations are balanced, three on

each side. This is one round. The standard practice is three rounds

two or three times a day. The ratio is 1:2, inhalation to exhalation,

until one is comfortable with 12:24, when khumbhaka is introduced at a

ratio of 1:4:2. One should not go beyond around forty seconds of

khumbhaka without the guidence of a competent teacher (which I am

not). At all times the student must carefully guage his progress and

capacity and not attempt to go beyond what

is comfortable. The practice of Khumbhaka can produce physical and

psychological symptoms if not done according to one's capacity (just

a general warning from the tradition).

The form of pranayama I have practiced the most and enjoyed the most

is bhastrika. Bhastrika cleanses the sheaths, increases the pranic

pressure in the nadis, strengthens the emotional capacity of the

nadis, and helps to break the granthis and open sushumna nadi, and is

said to aid the rise of kundalini. It is also said to keep one

healthy, and it prevents and alleviates sinus problems.

It's been nice talking to you. You have a fine prose style. Hidden

away down there in the Deep South, are you writing a book?

Chris

astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Chris!The Himalayan Institute (Honesdale, PA) is one of the

organizations I've been drawn to. Even though I heard that Swami Rama

was involved in his own sex scandal (with one or more of his female

students), Istill feel drawn to it. (I don't know if there's any

factual basis for this rumor, I hope it's not true. One hears so many

stories. Do you know? Maybe he was giving Tantric initiations?) I

still think the Institute is a valuable resource for anyone

interested in Yoga & Tantra.I need to clear up this misunderstanding:

I was with Gurumayi in Siddha Yoga, not Swami Muktananda. I was drawn

to Siddha Yoga through Muktananda's book "Play of Consciousness" and

his photos -- he was soooo powerful! I felt love for him (not

Gurumayi). But Muktananda had left his body in October 1982 and I did

not discover him until

more than two years later. (The scandals also involved

Gurumayi.)Actually, Siddha Yoga does not place a tremendous emphasis

on pranayama. The emphasis is on salvation thru the "Grace of the

Guru". I went to well over 20 different SY Intensives (as well as

other programs) and the only breathwork practice I was given is

identical to the one used in Aurum Solis (Western Ceremonial Magical

organization) for magical training.The Sufis, on the other hand,

demand their students pay attention to their breathwork from the very

beginning of their Intro training. There must be over 150 different

Sufi orders. Sufism was ancient before Muhammad was born, but existed

in areas overrun by the Islamic armies. Unfortunately (and

predictably), there are now Sufi orders that demand conversion to

Islam. True Sufism is not tied to any particular religion: there are

Christian Sufis & Hindu Sufis.Yes, one of the roots of Sufism

is in India. Sufism has roots in ancient Persia and (some say) in the

ancient Egyptian Mystery schools.Irina Tweedy's ("Daughter of Fire")

Guru was a Hindu Sufi Master of the Nashquabandi Order.Which

pranayama techniques have you found to be most useful?Astraea--- In

, chris kirner <chriskirner1956>

wrote:> Wow Astraea,> I'm really sorry to hear that about S.

Muktananda, but glad to hear you're happy with Sufism. Swami Rama

wrote that Sufism has its foundation in the traditions and practices

of the Himalayan sages. I understood they practice diksha...perhaps

you're a bit guru-shy. I wouldn't blame you a bit. When I left the

physical Christian church I avoided entanglement with any group for

years because of the pain. I'm still a bit group-shy.> > As far as

breathwork is concerned, if you spent that much time with Muktananda

you must

have done some pranayama. I am not very advanced in my pranayama

practice, but I have found it of immense value.> > Chris> > Chris>

> astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Hi Kelly!> Thanks for your

detailed post. I've read your posts with great > interest. You're a

rebirther and it sounds like you're a real one. I > think breathwork

is worth exploring.> > It looks like traditional Yantra worship is a

complicated thing. I'll > have to get my notes out on the different

ways there are on how to > worship the Yantra. I was hoping for a

clear & simple method.> > I'm not in Southern Cal or anywhere near.

Have lived in many > different places (no, my family was NOT military

-- usually the next > question). I am currently living in the Deep

South and am quite > isolated. This idea of having cyber-satsang is

brilliant and

a real > boon to isolates like me.> > No, I do not have a physical

Guru anymore. I was in a cult called > Siddha Yoga for about 12

years, then the article in "The New Yorker" > (14 November 1994 I

think) came out and I knew the reporter was > telling the truth. > >

Swami Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was

> also a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians

> in his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy

and > all the traditional yogic values. > > In private he had a

specially built table for his sex rites with > underage girls, as

well as women. He would steal their energies. No > real Satguru would

have to resort to such rituals. But these rituals > are well known

among sorcerers. He allowed people to worship him as a > Satguru.> >

When I realized what he was

& what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the > feet of the Sufi masters.

I was initiated into the International Sufi > Order (non-Muslim).> >

To be continued.> Astraea> > > ,

Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Hi Astrea,> > > > Namaste.

In response to your question of brass yantra's here is > what I have

witnessed> > Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra.

Rudran2 mentioned > taking up puja and this is the traditional way of

worshiping the > yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the

diety and just > as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one

would perform puja > to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know

some devotee's use it as > a talisman which is leaning more on the

'sorcery' side, however this

> would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru

> that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is

rare > and most would not disclose that information. However, I

think it > might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach

you puja or > provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are

worshiped, as > a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common

just as if you > were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's

are no > different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma

provides > and the sadhana, purification that comes from> > Her

ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to > maniplate

all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste > of

energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most >

fulfilling,

otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson > instead of

learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think > it's in

charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the > right

teacher for you will appear? > > > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on

her tiger and you on her lap. As > she does battle with your demon's

or karma you are uneffected because > you are on her Lap and no one

is going to come close to Chandi when > you are on her lap, are they?

Besides, when you are absorbed in your > Ma, you don't even notice

the battle going on. Surrender is the > hardest thing to understand

what it really is. It's not sacrifice or > giving up. It's the

ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will > decide to either

give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the >

yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you.> > Trust

that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?> > > >

Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in >

southern Cal?> > > > Kelly> > > >

Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email

to:> > > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > >

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Astraea,

Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with

me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I

don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them and communicate with

them when they come. I become aware of their aid only after the fact.

I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering

around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was

not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my

practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle,

I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not

written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant

of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could

communicate with.

I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the

saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very

grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing

that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved

student.

Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very helpful.

But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle

planes as well.I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but

(since youth) one of my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a

young Catholic priest. I have never had any ties to the Catholic

Church in this life and am NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic

nun in a previous incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral

is a remnant of that life.Astraea,

chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > I guess I

should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and Ammachi

come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by their

visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put

your faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a

serious seeker. > > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:>

Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > I did not stay with

the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are > real and can lead

a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > Hindu things.> >

Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes >

beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.> > Then I went to

Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very > impressed. She

gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor > her.> > I am

drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > there.

(A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)> > I am also

very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to >

1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books >

are a treasure trove.> > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated

into Transcendental > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think

everyone was. I never > revealed my mantra.> This is not complete,

but should give you a general idea.> > What is your "seeker" history?

How did you find Shree Maa? > > Astraea> > --- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:>

> Hi Astrea,> Do you have a Guru?> > Kelly> > > >

Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email

to:> > > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > >

> > The New

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>From what I read, I think you are doing fine. My Guru lives in St.

Louis and I only get to see him a few times per year. It's been a

blessing having a Gurudev to talk to but often times it's easy to

slip into projecting on a Guru and I often think seeing Guru in the

astral like you and I both have definately has it's benefits too.

You are very educated and graceful with your delivery. I would have

never known you didn't have a Gurudeva:)

Jai Ma.

Kellychris kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Astraea,

Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with

me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I

don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them and communicate with

them when they come. I become aware of their aid only after the fact.

I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering

around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was

not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my

practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle,

I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not

written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant

of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could

communicate with.

I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the

saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very

grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing

that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved

student.

Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very helpful.

But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle

planes as well.I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but

(since youth) one of my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a

young Catholic priest. I have never had any ties to the Catholic

Church in this life and am NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic

nun in a previous incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral

is a remnant of that life.Astraea,

chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > I guess I

should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and Ammachi

come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by their

visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put

your faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a

serious seeker. > > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:>

Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > I did not stay with

the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are > real and can lead

a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > Hindu things.> >

Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes >

beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.> > Then I went to

Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very > impressed. She

gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor > her.> > I am

drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > there.

(A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)> > I am also

very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to >

1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books >

are a treasure trove.> > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated

into Transcendental > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think

everyone was. I never > revealed my mantra.> This is not complete,

but should give you a general idea.> > What is your "seeker" history?

How did you find Shree Maa? > > Astraea> > --- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:>

> Hi Astrea,> Do you have a Guru?> > Kelly> > > >

Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email

to:> > > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > >

> > The New

Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this

group, send an email to:Your

use of is subject to the

The New with improved product search

To from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

 

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Share on other sites

Yes I have. Shree Maa is very beautiful. She is strong and graceful,

radiating divine power, and she is small and frail looking, so that I

have thought she might be leaving soon.

It is hard to describe her, except to say that she is beautiful (as

God is beautiful). The few times I have been close to her are

indelibly etched in that fabric of my mind and heart. As she says

herself, you cannot help but love her (if you love Divine Mother).

She and Swamiji are joined at the hip. Despite his advanced state, she

is definitely the Master and he the chela. There is such love there.

They are in one another's mind all the time. It is interesting to

see.

They have not stinted with their blessings where I am concerned. I am

indebted to them both, and I miss them since they stopped touring.

Yes, Ammachi is special too. I do not have the same connection with

her as I do with Maa, but she has also helped me. I have made it a

point the last four years or so to attend her free darshans when she

comes to town. It's odd, but the first couple of years I didn't feel

much from her, but the last couple, it seems I've been able to be

more open to her influence. This last visit was very nice, and I

needed all the help I could get.

Karma yoga is also hard for me. But I believe service is the

foundation of spirituality. To be able to serve, to really want to

serve, is the work of God, who serves us all. all of the time. I

believe the ability and desire will come as I advance.

Speaking of Mother Theresa, a few years ago I was accustomed to take a

walk at night during the summer. On one particular night, as I walked

up the sidewalk I looked up at the beautiful moon shining in the

clear night sky, and there just to the left of the moon was a large

whispy cloud in the perfect shape of the silhouette of a woman,

standing with hands folded in front at the waste, dressed in robe and

headscarf. I was amazed. I had never seen any such thing before. There

it was, motionless, lit by the rays of the moon; the only cloud in the

sky, except for a few low down on the horizon.

I watched the cloud, half spellbound, for about five minutes,

wondering what it might mean. It looked like Divine Mother. Finally,

all at once, it began to dissipate, as if blown away by a spiritual

wind, it began to distort from its perfect vertical shape, first at

the head, until it became an ordinary horizontal band of cloud moving

slowly across the sky.

When I had finished my walk and arrived home, I turned on the

television and there was a live broadcast from India of Mother

Theresa's funeral procession. From the broadcaster's comments, I

estimated the beginning of the procession coincided with the

appearance of the cloud. It was as if the Divine, or some servant of

the divine, was paying her tribute.

Chris

astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Chris!Sounds like you're doing just fine without a physical

Guru.Have you met Shree Maa yet? I haven't yet. I'm hoping that I

have the good karma to meet her. I'll have to chant for that.I think

Ammachi is a real Guru, but I'm not drawn to that particular path.

Her disciples do a lot of heavy-duty Karma Yoga -- social services

seva -- what I call "doing the Mother Theresa" (no disrespect

intended). I'm just not high enough in consciousness to be able to do

that. Talk about tapasya!Astraea,

chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > Yes, this is

true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with me astrally,

helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I don't seem

to possess the sensitivity to see them and

communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their aid only

after the fact.> > I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I

did. He's wandering around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral

form. My diksha was not given personally. When times are difficult,

when I'm not doing my practices, when I need encouragement to get

past some inner obstacle, I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also,

there is so much that is not written down, that is only transmitted

orally. I feel I am ignorant of so much that I should know, if only I

a guru deva I could communicate with.> > I know I get a great deal of

help from Divine Mother, and from the saints I have met, and those in

other realms, and I am so very grateful, but I think there is nothing

to compare with, and nothing that replaces, the relationship between a

gurudeva and her beloved student.> > Chris> >

astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Chris, I agree that having a

Guru in a physical body is very helpful. > But I think all seekers

have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle > planes as well.> > I

was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth) one of >

my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic priest. I

> have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and am

> NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous >

incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant of >

that life.> > Astraea> > , chris

kirner > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > Astraea,> > > > I guess I

should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi > and

Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been >

blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your >

faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a >

serious seeker. > > > > Chris> > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003>

wrote:> > Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > > > I did

not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they > are > >

real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > >

Hindu things.> > > > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to

her. She makes > > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.>

> > > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was

very > > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a

mantra. I > honor > > her.> > > > I am drawn to the sound of Shree

Maa's voice.

There's a sweetness > > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes

just arrived today.)> > > > I am also very impressed with Omraam

Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to > > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic

who taught in France. His > books > > are a treasure trove.> > > > Oh

I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental > >

Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never > >

revealed my mantra.> > This is not complete, but should give you a

general idea.> > > > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find

Shree Maa? > > > > Astraea> > > > ,

Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote:> > > Hi Astrea,> > Do you

have a Guru?> > > > Kelly> > > > >

> > > Sponsor> > > > To from

this group, send an email to:> >

> > > > > > > > Your use of

is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > >

> > > > > The New

with improved product search> > >

Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email

to:> > > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > > >

> > The New

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Chris,

I hope Shree Maa does not leave her body soon!!!

 

It's difficult to know how to serve appropriately. I mean attempts to

help without Divine Guidance can lead to a well-intentioned muddle.

 

What a lovely experience with the cloud! And who perfectly it was

timed!

 

Astraea

 

, chris kirner

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

> Astraea,

>

> Yes I have. Shree Maa is very beautiful. She is strong and

graceful, radiating divine power, and she is small and frail looking,

so that I have thought she might be leaving soon.

>

> It is hard to describe her, except to say that she is beautiful (as

God is beautiful). The few times I have been close to her are

indelibly etched in that fabric of my mind and heart. As she says

herself, you cannot help but love her (if you love Divine Mother).

>

> She and Swamiji are joined at the hip. Despite his advanced state,

she is definitely the Master and he the chela. There is such love

there. They are in one another's mind all the time. It is interesting

to see.

>

> They have not stinted with their blessings where I am concerned. I

am indebted to them both, and I miss them since they stopped touring.

>

> Yes, Ammachi is special too. I do not have the same connection with

her as I do with Maa, but she has also helped me. I have made it a

point the last four years or so to attend her free darshans when she

comes to town. It's odd, but the first couple of years I didn't feel

much from her, but the last couple, it seems I've been able to be

more open to her influence. This last visit was very nice, and I

needed all the help I could get.

>

> Karma yoga is also hard for me. But I believe service is the

foundation of spirituality. To be able to serve, to really want to

serve, is the work of God, who serves us all. all of the time. I

believe the ability and desire will come as I advance.

>

> Speaking of Mother Theresa, a few years ago I was accustomed to

take a walk at night during the summer. On one particular night, as I

walked up the sidewalk I looked up at the beautiful moon shining in

the clear night sky, and there just to the left of the moon was a

large whispy cloud in the perfect shape of the silhouette of a woman,

standing with hands folded in front at the waste, dressed in robe and

headscarf. I was amazed. I had never seen any such thing before.

There it was, motionless, lit by the rays of the moon; the only cloud

in the sky, except for a few low down on the horizon.

>

> I watched the cloud, half spellbound, for about five minutes,

wondering what it might mean. It looked like Divine Mother. Finally,

all at once, it began to dissipate, as if blown away by a spiritual

wind, it began to distort from its perfect vertical shape, first at

the head, until it became an ordinary horizontal band of cloud moving

slowly across the sky.

>

> When I had finished my walk and arrived home, I turned on the

television and there was a live broadcast from India of Mother

Theresa's funeral procession. From the broadcaster's comments, I

estimated the beginning of the procession coincided with the

appearance of the cloud. It was as if the Divine, or some servant of

the divine, was paying her tribute.

>

> Chris

>

>

> astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:

> Hi Chris!

> Sounds like you're doing just fine without a physical Guru.

> Have you met Shree Maa yet? I haven't yet. I'm hoping that I have

the

> good karma to meet her. I'll have to chant for that.

>

> I think Ammachi is a real Guru, but I'm not drawn to that

particular

> path. Her disciples do a lot of heavy-duty Karma Yoga -- social

> services seva -- what I call "doing the Mother Theresa" (no

> disrespect intended). I'm just not high enough in consciousness to

be

> able to do that. Talk about tapasya!

>

> Astraea

>

>

> , chris kirner

> <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > Astraea,

> >

> > Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been

> with me astrally, helping me at various times in my life.

> Unfortunately, I don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them

> and communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their

aid

> only after the fact.

> >

> > I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's

wandering

> around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was

> not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing

my

> practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner

obstacle,

> I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is

not

> written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant

> of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could

> communicate with.

> >

> > I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from

the

> saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very

> grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing

> that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved

> student.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:

> > Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very

> helpful.

> > But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the

subtle

> > planes as well.

> >

> > I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth)

one

> of

> > my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic

priest.

> I

> > have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and

am

> > NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous

> > incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant

of

> > that life.

> >

> > Astraea

> >

> > , chris kirner

> > <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > > Astraea,

> > >

> > > I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri

> Karunamayi

> > and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been

> > blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put

> your

> > faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a

> > serious seeker.

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:

> > > Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:

> > >

> > > I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know

they

> > are

> > > real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn

to

> > > Hindu things.

> > >

> > > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes

> > > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.

> > >

> > > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was

> very

> > > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I

> > honor

> > > her.

> > >

> > > I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a

sweetness

> > > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)

> > >

> > > I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to

> > > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His

> > books

> > > are a treasure trove.

> > >

> > > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental

> > > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never

> > > revealed my mantra.

> > > This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.

> > >

> > > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa?

> > >

> > > Astraea

> > >

> > > , Kelly Leeper

<blissnout>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Hi Astrea,

> > > Do you have a Guru?

> > >

> > > Kelly

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsor

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The New with improved product search

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The New with improved product search

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

> The New with improved product search

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