Guest guest Report post Posted October 2, 2003 Namaste Swamiji! I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them. Do you use these yourself? Can you help? Thank you. Astraea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 3, 2003 , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > Namaste Swamiji! > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them. > > Do you use these yourself? Can you help? > Thank you. > Astraea You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books contain yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well as some of the online classes. Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to shine with or without the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Hi Rudran2, Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the brass yantras. Astraea , "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote: > , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> > wrote: > > Namaste Swamiji! > > > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use > > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be > > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them. > > > > Do you use these yourself? Can you help? > > Thank you. > > Astraea > > You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books contain > yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the > sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include > asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well as > some of the online classes. > > Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it > glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to > shine with or without the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2003 salutations swamiji, i too am curious about yantras, how do you use them? for someone who is on a tight budget, my husband says if i buy one more book right now, we will have to build a new room!haha how should one begin to use these symbols? t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what I have witnessed Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides and the sadhana, purification that comes from Her ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling, otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right teacher for you will appear? Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As she does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because you are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when you are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma, you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you. Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru? Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal? Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Hi Rudran2,Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the brass yantras.Astraea, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote:> --- In , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> > wrote:> > Namaste Swamiji!> > > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to use > > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be > > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them.> > > > Do you use these yourself? Can you help?> > Thank you.> > Astraea> > You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books contain > yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the > sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include > asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well as > some of the online classes. > > Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it > glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to > shine with or without the sun.To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Swami would know how to use them. You might get some insight by looking at the big Shiva Puja book. It has a yantra on the back cover. I've seen brass yantras in Indian stores, but I certainly don't know how to use them. , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > Hi Rudran2, > Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not > answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the > brass yantras. > > Astraea > > , "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote: > > , "astraea2003" > <astraea2003> > > wrote: > > > Namaste Swamiji! > > > > > > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to > use > > > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be > > > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them. > > > > > > Do you use these yourself? Can you help? > > > Thank you. > > > Astraea > > > > You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books > contain > > yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the > > sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include > > asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well > as > > some of the online classes. > > > > Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it > > glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to > > shine with or without the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2003 i too would like to know, will monitor post. cm In a message dated Sat, 4 Oct 2003 8:28:26 PM AEST, "astraea2003" <astraea2003 writes: >Hi Rudran2, >Thanks for taking the time to respond. But your response does not >answer my question. It looks like no one here knows how to use the >brass yantras. > >Astraea > >, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote: >> , "astraea2003" ><astraea2003> >> wrote: >> > Namaste Swamiji! >> > >> > I bought a brass Yantra for Lord Ganesh, but do not know how to >use >> > it. There are a number of websites where brass yantras can be >> > purchased, but no clear instructions on how to worship using them. >> > >> > Do you use these yourself? Can you help? >> > Thank you. >> > Astraea >> >> You don't really need a brass yantra. The Devi Mandir books >contain >> yantras which work very effectively and they can be drawn in the >> sand. A yantra is only a part of an effort which should include >> asanna and mantras. This stuff is covered in the DM books as well >as >> some of the online classes. >> >> Still, a brass yantra is pretty. Why not shrine it up and let it >> glow in the sun. Better yet take up a puja and allow yourself to >> shine with or without the sun. > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2003 Hi Kelly! Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with great interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real one. I think breathwork is worth exploring. It looks like traditional Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll have to get my notes out on the different ways there are on how to worship the Yantra. I was hoping for a clear & simple method. I'm not in Southern Cal or anywhere near. Have lived in many different places (no, my family was NOT military -- usually the next question). I am currently living in the Deep South and am quite isolated. This idea of having cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real boon to isolates like me. No, I do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called Siddha Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker" (14 November 1994 I think) came out and I knew the reporter was telling the truth. Swami Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was also a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians in his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and all the traditional yogic values. In private he had a specially built table for his sex rites with underage girls, as well as women. He would steal their energies. No real Satguru would have to resort to such rituals. But these rituals are well known among sorcerers. He allowed people to worship him as a Satguru. When I realized what he was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the feet of the Sufi masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi Order (non-Muslim). To be continued. Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Hi Astrea, > > Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what I have witnessed > Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides and the sadhana, purification that comes from > Her ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling, otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right teacher for you will appear? > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As she does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because you are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when you are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma, you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you. > Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru? > > Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal? > > Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2003 Kelly, to continue my answer to your question: I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to Hindu things. Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those. Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor her. I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.) I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books are a treasure trove. Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never revealed my mantra. This is not complete, but should give you a general idea. What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Hi Astrea, Do you have a Guru? Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2003 I'm really sorry to hear that about S. Muktananda, but glad to hear you're happy with Sufism. Swami Rama wrote that Sufism has its foundation in the traditions and practices of the Himalayan sages. I understood they practice diksha...perhaps you're a bit guru-shy. I wouldn't blame you a bit. When I left the physical Christian church I avoided entanglement with any group for years because of the pain. I'm still a bit group-shy. As far as breathwork is concerned, if you spent that much time with Muktananda you must have done some pranayama. I am not very advanced in my pranayama practice, but I have found it of immense value. Chris Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Hi Kelly!Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with great interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real one. I think breathwork is worth exploring.It looks like traditional Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll have to get my notes out on the different ways there are on how to worship the Yantra. I was hoping for a clear & simple method.I'm not in Southern Cal or anywhere near. Have lived in many different places (no, my family was NOT military -- usually the next question). I am currently living in the Deep South and am quite isolated. This idea of having cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real boon to isolates like me.No, I do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called Siddha Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker" (14 November 1994 I think) came out and I knew the reporter was telling the truth. Swami Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was also a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians in his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and all the traditional yogic values. In private he had a specially built table for his sex rites with underage girls, as well as women. He would steal their energies. No real Satguru would have to resort to such rituals. But these rituals are well known among sorcerers. He allowed people to worship him as a Satguru.When I realized what he was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the feet of the Sufi masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi Order (non-Muslim).To be continued.Astraea--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi Astrea,> > Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what I have witnessed> Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides and the sadhana, purification that comes from> Her ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling, otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right teacher for you will appear? > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As she does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because you are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when you are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma, you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you.> Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?> > Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal?> > KellyTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2003 I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a serious seeker. Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to Hindu things.Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor her.I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books are a treasure trove.Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never revealed my mantra.This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? Astraea--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi Astrea, Do you have a Guru? KellyTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 7, 2003 Hi Astraea, Good to hear from you. I have never actually been to the Institute (it's a long story). But I met Pandit Rajmani Tigunait a couple of years ago when he came through on a Sacred Link tour, and though we didn't really talk, I came away deeply impressed with his humility. It was a palpable force that I didn't fully recognize until after he was gone. There was no self-aggrandizement, no posturing of any kind. I was humbled. As far as Swami Rama is concerned, let me begin by saying that I have never met him, but if there is anything worthwhile about my life today it belongs largely to him. I owe him everything. I was out of the information loop where the Institute and Swamiji were concerned from about 1988-1997. I didn't even know Swamiji had dropped his body for about six months afterward. As I later learned by reading At The Eleventh Hour, it was during this period that Swamiji was already preparing to leave; there were extremes in Swamiji's behavior, periods of long absence, and turmoil of various kinds, people leaving, lawsuits, and accusations. If you recall from Autobiography of a Yogi, SRF went through a similar experience, which P. Yogananda referred to as a time of testing. I first learned of the accusations when I came across an old copy of Yoga Journal in which there was a letter to the editor mentioning the sexual accusations against Swamiji. At first I was deeply hurt, shaken to my core, but I decided it didn't really matter. Truth told, I tend not to believe the accusations, but even if they are true, on their face, the being I perceived him to be, and the gifts he gave me, are beyond any merely human error he might have made in his life. However, there are people who, if they feel threatened or slighted by another, will not hesitate to level all manner of accusations in what they feel to be rightious anger. These people can be very persuasive. In the end it really doesn't matter. Swamiji's life will not be measured in the worldly court of public opinion, but in a much more subtle and powerful realm, in the hearts and minds of those whose lives he touched, in those for whom he selflessly labored without even so much as a conscious recognition of his aid. Such a one am I. About Siddha Yoga--that's very interesting. It sounds something like modern mainstream Christianity, with an emphasis on salvation through grace and faith rather than spiritual practices. I'm really surprised. You really know your Sufism. Yes. When I made reference to Sufism and the Himalayan tradition having the same roots, that's exactly what I meant. You see, in Swami Rama's tradition, and I believe, that of all the great Himalayan masters, there is no real identification with religion of any kind, but rather with the Vedic tradition, which is not considered to be Hindu, but the mother of all spiritual practice. Much older than even the oldest written spiritual documents, it's origin is lost in the shadows of antiquity. Even after so much has been written down to prevent its loss, so does much still remain unwritten, passed from master to student in an unbroken chain. I am given to understand that in its most basic sense, Veda means, direct experience. Your relation of the fact that breath awareness is stressed from the begining, gives credence, in my mind, to the belief that Sufism is a living tributary of that great stream of spiritual knowledge that flows uninterrupted from that one great tradition. You can see from my last comment how important I consider pranayama to be. I have read, and my own experience suggests, that such practice is not necessary for a bhakta because God does it all for the fully surrendered sadhaka engaged only in worship. But for the rest of us, in my opinion, pranayama is the key to dhyana. In my experience, prana is dhyana. In the begining I practiced the two to one, full yogic breath; a full, diaphragmatic breath with one part inhalation to two parts exhalation, as slowly as is comfortable, through the nose, without any noises or jerks. I also practiced nadi shodhanam or the nadi purification, called the alternate nostril breath. I did not practice this one as much as I should have. In its basic form, one inhales through one nostril (blocking the other with either the thumb or ring finger), then exhales through the other. One inhales through the same nostril three times, then switches sides. Immediately after the third exhalation, one inhales from the same nostril, exhaling then from the other, also three times. The inhalations and exhalations are balanced, three on each side. This is one round. The standard practice is three rounds two or three times a day. The ratio is 1:2, inhalation to exhalation, until one is comfortable with 12:24, when khumbhaka is introduced at a ratio of 1:4:2. One should not go beyond around forty seconds of khumbhaka without the guidence of a competent teacher (which I am not). At all times the student must carefully guage his progress and capacity and not attempt to go beyond what is comfortable. The practice of Khumbhaka can produce physical and psychological symptoms if not done according to one's capacity (just a general warning from the tradition). The form of pranayama I have practiced the most and enjoyed the most is bhastrika. Bhastrika cleanses the sheaths, increases the pranic pressure in the nadis, strengthens the emotional capacity of the nadis, and helps to break the granthis and open sushumna nadi, and is said to aid the rise of kundalini. It is also said to keep one healthy, and it prevents and alleviates sinus problems. It's been nice talking to you. You have a fine prose style. Hidden away down there in the Deep South, are you writing a book? Chris astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Hi Chris!The Himalayan Institute (Honesdale, PA) is one of the organizations I've been drawn to. Even though I heard that Swami Rama was involved in his own sex scandal (with one or more of his female students), Istill feel drawn to it. (I don't know if there's any factual basis for this rumor, I hope it's not true. One hears so many stories. Do you know? Maybe he was giving Tantric initiations?) I still think the Institute is a valuable resource for anyone interested in Yoga & Tantra.I need to clear up this misunderstanding: I was with Gurumayi in Siddha Yoga, not Swami Muktananda. I was drawn to Siddha Yoga through Muktananda's book "Play of Consciousness" and his photos -- he was soooo powerful! I felt love for him (not Gurumayi). But Muktananda had left his body in October 1982 and I did not discover him until more than two years later. (The scandals also involved Gurumayi.)Actually, Siddha Yoga does not place a tremendous emphasis on pranayama. The emphasis is on salvation thru the "Grace of the Guru". I went to well over 20 different SY Intensives (as well as other programs) and the only breathwork practice I was given is identical to the one used in Aurum Solis (Western Ceremonial Magical organization) for magical training.The Sufis, on the other hand, demand their students pay attention to their breathwork from the very beginning of their Intro training. There must be over 150 different Sufi orders. Sufism was ancient before Muhammad was born, but existed in areas overrun by the Islamic armies. Unfortunately (and predictably), there are now Sufi orders that demand conversion to Islam. True Sufism is not tied to any particular religion: there are Christian Sufis & Hindu Sufis.Yes, one of the roots of Sufism is in India. Sufism has roots in ancient Persia and (some say) in the ancient Egyptian Mystery schools.Irina Tweedy's ("Daughter of Fire") Guru was a Hindu Sufi Master of the Nashquabandi Order.Which pranayama techniques have you found to be most useful?Astraea--- In , chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Wow Astraea,> I'm really sorry to hear that about S. Muktananda, but glad to hear you're happy with Sufism. Swami Rama wrote that Sufism has its foundation in the traditions and practices of the Himalayan sages. I understood they practice diksha...perhaps you're a bit guru-shy. I wouldn't blame you a bit. When I left the physical Christian church I avoided entanglement with any group for years because of the pain. I'm still a bit group-shy.> > As far as breathwork is concerned, if you spent that much time with Muktananda you must have done some pranayama. I am not very advanced in my pranayama practice, but I have found it of immense value.> > Chris> > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Hi Kelly!> Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with great > interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real one. I > think breathwork is worth exploring.> > It looks like traditional Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll > have to get my notes out on the different ways there are on how to > worship the Yantra. I was hoping for a clear & simple method.> > I'm not in Southern Cal or anywhere near. Have lived in many > different places (no, my family was NOT military -- usually the next > question). I am currently living in the Deep South and am quite > isolated. This idea of having cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real > boon to isolates like me.> > No, I do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called > Siddha Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker" > (14 November 1994 I think) came out and I knew the reporter was > telling the truth. > > Swami Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was > also a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians > in his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and > all the traditional yogic values. > > In private he had a specially built table for his sex rites with > underage girls, as well as women. He would steal their energies. No > real Satguru would have to resort to such rituals. But these rituals > are well known among sorcerers. He allowed people to worship him as a > Satguru.> > When I realized what he was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the > feet of the Sufi masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi > Order (non-Muslim).> > To be continued.> Astraea> > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Hi Astrea,> > > > Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is > what I have witnessed> > Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra. Rudran2 mentioned > taking up puja and this is the traditional way of worshiping the > yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the diety and just > as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one would perform puja > to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some devotee's use it as > a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery' side, however this > would be up to the individual and the Guru one has. To find a Guru > that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the Yantra is rare > and most would not disclose that information. However, I think it > might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach you puja or > provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are worshiped, as > a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common just as if you > were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no > different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides > and the sadhana, purification that comes from> > Her ordeals. Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to > maniplate all my karma especially when I was young. It was a waste > of energy... Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most > fulfilling, otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson > instead of learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think > it's in charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the > right teacher for you will appear? > > > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on her tiger and you on her lap. As > she does battle with your demon's or karma you are uneffected because > you are on her Lap and no one is going to come close to Chandi when > you are on her lap, are they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your > Ma, you don't even notice the battle going on. Surrender is the > hardest thing to understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or > giving up. It's the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will > decide to either give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the > yantra or she will chose a different karma /dharma for you.> > Trust that the right thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?> > > > Hope this helped. Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in > southern Cal?> > > > Kelly> > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > The New Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 7, 2003 Astraea, Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them and communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their aid only after the fact. I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle, I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could communicate with. I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved student. Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very helpful. But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle planes as well.I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth) one of my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic priest. I have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and am NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant of that life.Astraea, chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a serious seeker. > > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are > real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > Hindu things.> > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.> > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor > her.> > I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)> > I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books > are a treasure trove.> > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never > revealed my mantra.> This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.> > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? > > Astraea> > --- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Hi Astrea,> Do you have a Guru?> > Kelly> > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > The New Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 7, 2003 >From what I read, I think you are doing fine. My Guru lives in St. Louis and I only get to see him a few times per year. It's been a blessing having a Gurudev to talk to but often times it's easy to slip into projecting on a Guru and I often think seeing Guru in the astral like you and I both have definately has it's benefits too. You are very educated and graceful with your delivery. I would have never known you didn't have a Gurudeva:) Jai Ma. Kellychris kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Astraea, Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them and communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their aid only after the fact. I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle, I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could communicate with. I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved student. Chrisastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very helpful. But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle planes as well.I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth) one of my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic priest. I have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and am NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant of that life.Astraea, chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a serious seeker. > > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they are > real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > Hindu things.> > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.> > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I honor > her.> > I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)> > I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His books > are a treasure trove.> > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never > revealed my mantra.> This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.> > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? > > Astraea> > --- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Hi Astrea,> Do you have a Guru?> > Kelly> > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > The New Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Yes I have. Shree Maa is very beautiful. She is strong and graceful, radiating divine power, and she is small and frail looking, so that I have thought she might be leaving soon. It is hard to describe her, except to say that she is beautiful (as God is beautiful). The few times I have been close to her are indelibly etched in that fabric of my mind and heart. As she says herself, you cannot help but love her (if you love Divine Mother). She and Swamiji are joined at the hip. Despite his advanced state, she is definitely the Master and he the chela. There is such love there. They are in one another's mind all the time. It is interesting to see. They have not stinted with their blessings where I am concerned. I am indebted to them both, and I miss them since they stopped touring. Yes, Ammachi is special too. I do not have the same connection with her as I do with Maa, but she has also helped me. I have made it a point the last four years or so to attend her free darshans when she comes to town. It's odd, but the first couple of years I didn't feel much from her, but the last couple, it seems I've been able to be more open to her influence. This last visit was very nice, and I needed all the help I could get. Karma yoga is also hard for me. But I believe service is the foundation of spirituality. To be able to serve, to really want to serve, is the work of God, who serves us all. all of the time. I believe the ability and desire will come as I advance. Speaking of Mother Theresa, a few years ago I was accustomed to take a walk at night during the summer. On one particular night, as I walked up the sidewalk I looked up at the beautiful moon shining in the clear night sky, and there just to the left of the moon was a large whispy cloud in the perfect shape of the silhouette of a woman, standing with hands folded in front at the waste, dressed in robe and headscarf. I was amazed. I had never seen any such thing before. There it was, motionless, lit by the rays of the moon; the only cloud in the sky, except for a few low down on the horizon. I watched the cloud, half spellbound, for about five minutes, wondering what it might mean. It looked like Divine Mother. Finally, all at once, it began to dissipate, as if blown away by a spiritual wind, it began to distort from its perfect vertical shape, first at the head, until it became an ordinary horizontal band of cloud moving slowly across the sky. When I had finished my walk and arrived home, I turned on the television and there was a live broadcast from India of Mother Theresa's funeral procession. From the broadcaster's comments, I estimated the beginning of the procession coincided with the appearance of the cloud. It was as if the Divine, or some servant of the divine, was paying her tribute. Chris astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Hi Chris!Sounds like you're doing just fine without a physical Guru.Have you met Shree Maa yet? I haven't yet. I'm hoping that I have the good karma to meet her. I'll have to chant for that.I think Ammachi is a real Guru, but I'm not drawn to that particular path. Her disciples do a lot of heavy-duty Karma Yoga -- social services seva -- what I call "doing the Mother Theresa" (no disrespect intended). I'm just not high enough in consciousness to be able to do that. Talk about tapasya!Astraea, chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Astraea,> > Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been with me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. Unfortunately, I don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them and communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their aid only after the fact.> > I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle, I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could communicate with.> > I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved student.> > Chris> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very helpful. > But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle > planes as well.> > I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth) one of > my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic priest. I > have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and am > NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous > incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant of > that life.> > Astraea> > , chris kirner > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > Astraea,> > > > I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri Karunamayi > and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been > blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put your > faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a > serious seeker. > > > > Chris> > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> > Kelly, to continue my answer to your question:> > > > I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they > are > > real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > > Hindu things.> > > > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes > > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those.> > > > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was very > > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I > honor > > her.> > > > I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.)> > > > I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to > > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His > books > > are a treasure trove.> > > > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental > > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never > > revealed my mantra.> > This is not complete, but should give you a general idea.> > > > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? > > > > Astraea> > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote:> > > Hi Astrea,> > Do you have a Guru?> > > > Kelly> > > > > > > > Sponsor> > > > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > > The New Shopping - with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Chris, I hope Shree Maa does not leave her body soon!!! It's difficult to know how to serve appropriately. I mean attempts to help without Divine Guidance can lead to a well-intentioned muddle. What a lovely experience with the cloud! And who perfectly it was timed! Astraea , chris kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Astraea, > > Yes I have. Shree Maa is very beautiful. She is strong and graceful, radiating divine power, and she is small and frail looking, so that I have thought she might be leaving soon. > > It is hard to describe her, except to say that she is beautiful (as God is beautiful). The few times I have been close to her are indelibly etched in that fabric of my mind and heart. As she says herself, you cannot help but love her (if you love Divine Mother). > > She and Swamiji are joined at the hip. Despite his advanced state, she is definitely the Master and he the chela. There is such love there. They are in one another's mind all the time. It is interesting to see. > > They have not stinted with their blessings where I am concerned. I am indebted to them both, and I miss them since they stopped touring. > > Yes, Ammachi is special too. I do not have the same connection with her as I do with Maa, but she has also helped me. I have made it a point the last four years or so to attend her free darshans when she comes to town. It's odd, but the first couple of years I didn't feel much from her, but the last couple, it seems I've been able to be more open to her influence. This last visit was very nice, and I needed all the help I could get. > > Karma yoga is also hard for me. But I believe service is the foundation of spirituality. To be able to serve, to really want to serve, is the work of God, who serves us all. all of the time. I believe the ability and desire will come as I advance. > > Speaking of Mother Theresa, a few years ago I was accustomed to take a walk at night during the summer. On one particular night, as I walked up the sidewalk I looked up at the beautiful moon shining in the clear night sky, and there just to the left of the moon was a large whispy cloud in the perfect shape of the silhouette of a woman, standing with hands folded in front at the waste, dressed in robe and headscarf. I was amazed. I had never seen any such thing before. There it was, motionless, lit by the rays of the moon; the only cloud in the sky, except for a few low down on the horizon. > > I watched the cloud, half spellbound, for about five minutes, wondering what it might mean. It looked like Divine Mother. Finally, all at once, it began to dissipate, as if blown away by a spiritual wind, it began to distort from its perfect vertical shape, first at the head, until it became an ordinary horizontal band of cloud moving slowly across the sky. > > When I had finished my walk and arrived home, I turned on the television and there was a live broadcast from India of Mother Theresa's funeral procession. From the broadcaster's comments, I estimated the beginning of the procession coincided with the appearance of the cloud. It was as if the Divine, or some servant of the divine, was paying her tribute. > > Chris > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote: > Hi Chris! > Sounds like you're doing just fine without a physical Guru. > Have you met Shree Maa yet? I haven't yet. I'm hoping that I have the > good karma to meet her. I'll have to chant for that. > > I think Ammachi is a real Guru, but I'm not drawn to that particular > path. Her disciples do a lot of heavy-duty Karma Yoga -- social > services seva -- what I call "doing the Mother Theresa" (no > disrespect intended). I'm just not high enough in consciousness to be > able to do that. Talk about tapasya! > > Astraea > > > , chris kirner > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Astraea, > > > > Yes, this is true. I know Swamiji (and I think others) have been > with me astrally, helping me at various times in my life. > Unfortunately, I don't seem to possess the sensitivity to see them > and communicate with them when they come. I become aware of their aid > only after the fact. > > > > I don't have a physical guru deva, and I wish I did. He's wandering > around somewhere in the Himalayas in an astral form. My diksha was > not given personally. When times are difficult, when I'm not doing my > practices, when I need encouragement to get past some inner obstacle, > I wish I had a guru deva to help. Also, there is so much that is not > written down, that is only transmitted orally. I feel I am ignorant > of so much that I should know, if only I a guru deva I could > communicate with. > > > > I know I get a great deal of help from Divine Mother, and from the > saints I have met, and those in other realms, and I am so very > grateful, but I think there is nothing to compare with, and nothing > that replaces, the relationship between a gurudeva and her beloved > student. > > > > Chris > > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote: > > Chris, I agree that having a Guru in a physical body is very > helpful. > > But I think all seekers have Gurus & spiritual guides on the subtle > > planes as well. > > > > I was raised Protestant in this incarnation, but (since youth) one > of > > my spiritual guides on the Astral has been a young Catholic priest. > I > > have never had any ties to the Catholic Church in this life and am > > NOT drawn to Catholicism. I was a Catholic nun in a previous > > incarnation and this Catholic priest on the Astral is a remnant of > > that life. > > > > Astraea > > > > , chris kirner > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Astraea, > > > > > > I guess I should've kept reading before responding. Sri > Karunamayi > > and Ammachi come by up here too (Washington State). I have been > > blessed by their visits. I hope you find a gurudeva you can put > your > > faith in. I think there is perhaps nothing more important for a > > serious seeker. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote: > > > Kelly, to continue my answer to your question: > > > > > > I did not stay with the Sufis for long -- even though I know they > > are > > > real and can lead a seeker all the way. I am still very drawn to > > > Hindu things. > > > > > > Next I went to Karunamayi, but was not drawn to her. She makes > > > beautiful chanting tapes/CD's and I do use those. > > > > > > Then I went to Ammachi (Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi) and was > very > > > impressed. She gave me my spiritual name (Sati) and a mantra. I > > honor > > > her. > > > > > > I am drawn to the sound of Shree Maa's voice. There's a sweetness > > > there. (A couple of her CD's & video tapes just arrived today.) > > > > > > I am also very impressed with Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (1900 to > > > 1982?), a Bulgarian Christian mystic who taught in France. His > > books > > > are a treasure trove. > > > > > > Oh I forgot to mention I was also initiated into Transcendental > > > Meditation way back in 1975, but I think everyone was. I never > > > revealed my mantra. > > > This is not complete, but should give you a general idea. > > > > > > What is your "seeker" history? How did you find Shree Maa? > > > > > > Astraea > > > > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Astrea, > > > Do you have a Guru? > > > > > > Kelly > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > The New with improved product search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
