: Thanks!

October 1, 2003

I just wanted to let you know how moved I was by your descriptions of

your intimate emotional and spiritual encounters with Kali Ma. I

appreciate your sharing what was obviously intensly personal.

You seem to have practiced a lot of different things rather intensely. I am shamed by your example.

I may try the rebirthing breath as you've described it. Isn''t it

interesting how varying the breath can produce different effects.

ChrisKelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote:

Tony,

Thanks for letting me know something I wrote touched you. In coming

from my heart, my wish is that all devotee's can remove the fetters

of self consciousness when relating to their God whether it's Ma or

another form. I'm going to write real here without any poetic

prose..

You mentioned you wished you had my capacity for experience. It's

not my capacity for experience, although that was one thing I did

pray whole heartedly for. It's the Will to experience. In the

beginning I studied alot of Kabbalah and the first lesson in those

teachings is 'The Will To Receive'. Without that, Spirit cannot fill

you. This was a huge mystery to me and I felt worthless to receive

anything directly from God. I was raised protestant and so one

always had to go thru Jesus in order to understand God. This did not

come natural to me, therefore I wanted God, not the incarnation. My

way has never been to go thru a human to get to God, to need a

mediator in my salvation in the way christianity teaches it, so this

was one of my first lessons, to be able to receive, worthy to receive

God directly. In working with the Kabbalah, if you are familiar,

Kether is the Absolute, the void. Chokmah, the Father or

masculine principle, Binah the Mother and feminie principle. Chokmah

is Wisdom and Binah is Understanding. I debated in my mind over

which one was most High. I only wanted the highest, something I had

no words for so I trusted Ma to provide what her child needed. There

is one saying in the western mysteries, 'One always goes thru the

Mother to see the Father.' My whole God paradigm shifted from

patriarchal God to matriarchal Ma. In order to experience Kether,

Brahman, you must go thru the Mother. (shakti.. you must awaken her

otherwise no Siva will be experienced, hense going thru the Mother to

get to the Father..this is the western mysteries)

I prayed for surrender. I knew Kali was a wrathful diety and my Ma is

not your normal Ma. She is the really wrathful Ma, the one who is

naked and not wrapped in sari's. She is wild and that fits my nature

so I can relate much more to that form. I actually never knew Ma wore

clothing until 3 years ago when I went to a Hindu temple where she was

dressed. So I prayed for surrender and if I couldn't do it, I wanted

her to do it for me. Whatever it took. I was so worried I would not

understand in this lifetime and it was my fear of not becoming

enlightened that drove me to tears, so I asked for her wrath to come

on me and any shortcomings I had that interfered with my

understanding of God and knowing myself. I used my imagination to

make her real, thus She became VERY real very fast. I imagined her

like in the Chandi, although I had no idea there was a Chandi at that

time. Every part of who I was I placed in the cremation

ground and asked her to burn me to ashes, sling me to the ends of the

universe, and recreate me. I would envision this awesome and most

loving Ma tearing me apart. I wanted to be created into a vessel

that was fit for Her understanding. Hense, all my tears and pain in

learning to let go, to receive Her.

Eventually I came into a breathing technique called Rebirthing and the

technique is intense. When I first felt the shakti of it, I realized

there was unlimited potential in it and used the breath to help Ma

tear me apart and recreate me. Rebirthing is a circular breath with

no holds, khumbaka or counting. It's completely feminine in that you

breathe for an hour in a circle, a good pace 40-50 in and outs per

minute and no matter what, you keep going, no holding of the breath,

no stoping of the breath and you keep your intent on Ma and

surrendering, feeling and accepting whatever comes up, embracing it,

never burying it. Pull up on the inhale and then surrender, let the

chest cavity fall naturally on the exhale and then bring it up

again...for an hour at least. It brings on the tears, but with all

that breath and shakti, you can feel knot's in your chakra's being

untied. It's very painful, but after they are untied, so are

the demonic elements in my nature transformed and then you will feel

bliss! Your holding patterns will flutter in your body as they give

way. The very act of surrending to Ma in this breathing technique

was one of the closest ways to knowing Her. It is a gentle

technique, however it doesn't feel very gentle if you are really

going for it. But Ma will show you thru this technique where you are

going wrong and She does it directly. I did that technique for about

4 hours per day on top of hatha yoga, meditation, chanting and

fasting. I was about 21 at the time. I had Guru in a non-phsycal

form that visited in dreams and taught me that way too.

Now during this time her beauty was wrathful. I was in love with her compassion to

'gut me'. Kinda like gutting a fish. (a little background here...

In my vedic chart I have moon, venus and mars in Taurus in the 8th

house of scorpio so I think this is one reason I really love her

wrath. If your familiar with astrology you will understand this) I'm

a very nice person and 'normal' so please don't think I'm obsessed

with the dark side...only My mothers compassion to do what is needed

to get the job done. In reading a story on Narasimhadev, he is

likened to my Kali. After the main knots in the body are untied

removed, the energy in the body moves much differently. Her

compassion moved me and yes, it is sensual, however beyond what you

would think to be sensual. When you are willing to walk into your

darkness while holding your Mothers hand, She will show you your

demonic elements, where you err, where you react and then the truth

of the healing. You have to look for it, where you err in order to

have an awareness. Shamans call it stalking yourself. What you might

encounter is what mystics call The Dark Night Of The Soul. When you

realize just how far 'off' you've been even though you might identify

with being the Yogi or Yogini or a Hatha Yoga Instructor or a Scholar

or a Guru. In the end for all, it's Her and the Child no matter the

identity. There are no grandchildren of God - only children. She

will show you where you've hurt others and believe me, this will

bring humility, but my prayer thur this whole time was "May I have

they eye's to REALLY see where I am blocking myself from You. May I

have the ears to hear what you want to tell me, Oh Maa, please! I

can't do it without You! I don't ever want to hurt another, ever

hurt another, ever hurt another like I have been hurt.. Help me keep

my word. Help me keep my vow. Make me your instrument, I am yours,

all yours" Thru all the sadhana, there were

other experiences of her that still amaze me to this day. If your

curious as to the mystical experience, yes there was that, kundalini

experiences. Almost had my DL taken away from getting concussions.

I could never 'hold' her liquor though. (joke) meaning, when the

kundalini would come up to my ears, I would black out. I'm a light

weight.. Ma will do this to you when you least expect it. Like

falling in love, you never know when it's going to come. The dangers

of having these experiences caused me to stop doing so much sadhana,

sadly I had no where to go for spiritual life to continue so that I

could hold my shakti. I think that if nirvakalpi samadhi where to

come, it would be nice to not black out before hand, So I went back

into the world to learn how to be 'an adult', make a living, take

care of my family.

Sounds dramatic because it was. As life went on, my relationship

intensified and waned in it's own cycle primarily because I was

drawn into family karma the older I got. I had to parent my nephew,

so I became mother.. I got the chance to try and be as wonderful as

my own Ma was to me, however no wrath was needed except to protect

him at times.

Recently, my relationship with Ma has moved into area's of

undescribable supersensuality. It always starts off with a child

bhava, but she will move you and the energy of the bliss feels

nothing like a child. When it's Love loving Love and Love loving

Love back, it's overwhelming. She will grab you, sieze you and

squeeze you like a sponge. The wringing has got to be one of the

most pleasurable, supersensual feelings, takes your breath away:)

If your attraction for Ma is sensual, so be it. I'm the last one to

judge you for the bhava that She choses for you, but many might with

a blush. We don't really chose the Bhava, She does. Don't let

anyone fool you. It's safe to be a child of Ma, but if your natural

tendancy is to love her like a Lover, then trust it. Let her take

you on Your Journey With Her. I don't know you, so you might have

the maturity for the madhura Bhava. Go with it and learn from it.

There is alot of superstition around that Bhava, so let it go and go

with your direct experience of Her. She will always lead you and you

might even think it's You leading the whole thing..surely it's not.

For puja, I am not a knower of puja in the traditional sense. My puja

was tears, and temper tantrums...real ones. When you cry and are

trying so hard to see Ma, it's normal to get mad and throw a temper

tantrum. The adult in you might say.. "aren't you taking this

alittle far??" But the child wants her Mother and temper tamtrums do

wonders.. Of course they must be real ones, heartfelt. When I

would not feel the desire to want God, every once in a while this

would happen, it made me very afraid. Then I would get mad at her,

"So you think your going to leave me?" and throw another temper

tantrum because I felt content. "No Nirvakalpi samadhi and your

leaving?" No no no ......

I've completely unzipped myself publically, however, if it has helped

you in the least that is what it was for. I was so lucky to not know

about traditional puja, or the ways of how it should be done. I had

no example, so I did it in the way that was natural. I had a western

mystery, meditation teacher and a shamanic teacher at the time, but

what I have told you are my private lessons and understandings

directly from Her. I'm learning puja's now and chants because it's

another way of relating to the Divine. I'm not sure I want to have

alot of temper tantrums at 40 -50 and beyond. Might break a bone or

something. In the last 3 years I have had the lessons of

traditional religion and yoga and along with it has been loads of

superstition to weed thru. I realized just what Ma had done for me

after seeing what most people go thru when they have a Navigator

other than Ma. I'm very lucky, but it's time to stretch

myself again... to find the Will to Receive again in a new way with

new eye's to experience Her in a new way. Whatever Her will, She

always gets Her way.. Ask a Swami about Puja or Mantra's, I am not

qualified in that area at all, not yet... There is so much in that

area, takes along time.

You can create an altar for her. Expand your altar of her so that you

train your mind to see her in everything. I like what Swami

Satyananda said about 'Expanding your Altar'. It's completey true.

A good exersize... make a list of your aversions and then embrace

them and find out what they have to teach you. Make sacred fires and

sit by them alot chanting and just 'being' with the fire. Give

yourself to the fire. Bathe twice a day. Fast once a week. These

are just idea's... I think everyone should sit with fire for at least

1 hour per day. If you fast, sitting with the fire is even more

profound, but understand that your sensitivity will increase.. You

are an Ashtanga Yogi, so you are already addressing the physical

purifications. If you find a rebirther in your area

www.rebirthingonline.com that will blow your mind. I've had the

privilage to rebirth monks

and 20 year practitioners of yoga and they are blown away by the power

of the shakti. It's like self initiated shaktipat. I can only offer

assistance from what I know, and what I have told you, is what I know

so far..

I hope I didn't overwhelm you with info. Just go for it, you have

nothing to loose. Good luck. Enjoy Her:)

Jai Ma!

Kelly

craghopper2003 <craghopper2003 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Apologies for not replying sooner!I thought that your post was

beautiful. I only wish I had your capacity for experience. Can you

tell me whether I am supposed to feel that the meditation is sensual?

Is this unusual to experience this? It seems that this is the way She

manefests to me. A Beautiful, Sensual, Nubile very, very Dark

Goddess?If you could let me know any small puja that I can perform I

would really appreciate it?RegardsTony...

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October 1, 2003

Thanks for your words. I had to take a deep breath before I pressed the 'SEND' button,

so thank you.

The Rebirthing did change my view of shakti and created a 180 turn for

me. When chosing a Rebirther, always go with your intuition. Who you

feel the safest with will be the one to Rebirth you. You will be

purifying your shadow, the part of all of us that we can't see and so

it's intimate and in order to 'go there' you need to feel safe.

Leonard Orr discovered the technique and along with Sondra Ray they

trained many people. I adore Len... he really is connected to an

intelligence that I have seen no other connected to. The first

rebirthers are wonderful to get rebirthed by, Peter Delong, Bill and

DD Chappelle, Bob Mandel, Sondra Ray. Of course... the presense of

the Rebirther is most important for providing the safe space - no

judgement of the process more so than the credentials. Once you

learn to do it on your own, let it rip! In sadhana, do rebirthing

first, then traditional pranayam and then meditation. Rebirthing

makes the energy mallable, Pranayam gives it structure and

meditation still's the breath, so it's all good and valid. It seems

to be the best sequence..

Good luck in finding one. You can always call Len in Afton VA and NY,

He is listed on the web and he can refer you to someone worldwide. He

knows many more than what is listed on that web page.

Blessings and Hope you have a great experience:)

Kelly

chris kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Hi Kelly,