Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Brian, A very lovely article. I write with alot of passion so I hope this comes accross correctly..It's nice to see yogi's with knowledge of psychology. In my experience, not very many have much knowlegde about the subject and have prefered to cling to overly simple ideologies that stem from religion. By religion, I mean the superficial fundamentals that God will take all the pain away and we only need to focus on God. Well, that is a good thing to do, don't get me wrong but we have to be careful not to fall into the Pollyanna Complex... LOVE brings up anything unlike itself to be healed. This is the part that I have witnessed most spritual practitioners or yogi's/yogini's to ignore, deny or supress. The material that comes up in the process of self reflection and in finding self love again can be overwhelming especially when our 'Ego's'' and our 'Yogi Ego's' want so badly to appear perfect. In the beginnning we believe Spiritual people are supposed to be centered and grounded and so we try and look like that so we can be spiritual...however that is all appearances. The material coming up most likely is a Gem from Ma in answering our prayers to pull us closer... and most I have witnessed who do not have emotional knowledge seem to think the proper burial of this material is more Godly, when in fact it's Fear. I've seen the most revered people in communities bury, repress, supress and then oppress others because they will not let the process of purification unfold because of what 'It Looks Like' especially when they are leading others. What we suppress and repress in ourselves, we will start to oppress in others and this is violence... albeit unconscious, but violent behavior thru unawareness. You mention "The Truth hurts". I've always found the opposite to be true. The Truth heals, it's the wound that hurts and the wound is very open in the beginning. The truth is the knife that slices the Lie open to be revealed for what it is...a Lie. Usually this is when the emotional material comes up to wash away the infection (tears). The Truth when embraced continues to heal the wound. Eventually, with Understanding, one can relax into the Truth and then be High on love all the time. You mentioned Love is to be attained to... When we embrace the Truth, WE ARE LOVE just as GOD IS. In my path, the True Healing of separation is what is to be worked toward so we can uncover the Truth that is already there and that is, We Are Love. Have you noticed in relationships that the more love and safety there is, the more unhealed material arises to be healed? It's a purification process when all our relationships are divine. People are always on their best behavior when there is no safety, since we fear judgement. Once we feel emotionally safe, our guards come down and the purification comes and we should embrace it even though it feels horrible at times. These are gifts to be embraced to help us transform. We cannot transform something we are in denial of. This will also teach us surrendering. The very thing to be healed is the belief of separation and death. This is the Lie. If you notice our relationships with others are reflections of our relationships with the Divine. Look closely. How often do we create a co-dependant relationship with God? We mirror the same dynamics with God that we do our parents and lovers. Our parents ARE GOD to us when we are infants and what they do forms our beliefs about who we are. Once we learn of God when we can communicate, then becomes the dysfunction of what our parents and sunday school teachers taught and we have to admit, most of us were taught by people who's lives and relationships were a mess and who had very distorted views of what God is or how we should relate to God. This all needs to be healed if we are to attain the Highest. For me the Truth Heals and feels Gooooood and We Are Love. Om Tat Sat. Namaste. Kelly , "btmckee1967" <brian@s...> wrote: > Swamiji has asked me to start a discussion on the nature of love. > > Seeing as how English is horrible at discussing anything of an > emotional nature (I think because its created by people of an > intelectual nature), I'm going to have to introduce to you the > language I have developed for myself to relate my feelings into > English. The best way I know to do that is to talk about my two > favorite subjects: love and co-dependence. > > Why this discussion? > > I think the nature of love is the biggest misunderstanding of > humanity. By misunderstanding I don't mean at a mental level, I mean > at the level of our being or at least at the level of the being that > projects itself into reality. It is important that I separate mind > and emotion and set them as equals because many people today are of > the opinion that one or the other is better or more correct. That > simply isn't true in my experience. Mind and emotions are different > aspects of who we are, just as is our physical body, but they are > merely vehicles which transports our consciousness and allows it to > interact with reality. ("reality" is the biggest misnomer in the > language, maya is much more accurate). > > I don't know sanskrit but I suspect this is all very well explained > in Sanscrit. It's good that I only know English though because that > way I have to figure out a way to explain myself, thus I have to > connect more strongly with my feelings and thoughts to express them > in words. > > Love is the most misunderstood principal of humanity because of one > simple half truth that we all were taught. They say that love is the > ultimate of human experience, and that's true, but then they tell us > how to go out and get love, how to make love, how to earn love, and > how to offer love. The how part is the lie. The full truth is: love > is attainable within ourselves and there is absolutely no need to > interact with anyone in reality to feel / receive / express love. > > Love only has one form. If someone tells you that they know > the "highest" form of love, you can safely ignore them, because they > are trying to sell you something, and chances are you won't like the > cost. > > Love's form is uncompromising, it is eternal and absolute. It is > free, infinitely available and can be obtained directly from the > source (we call her Maa). When we receive love from Goddess or from > any individualized aspect of her (aka each other), then we feel it > as if it were directly from her, the only difference is that when > given by another we see a reflection of the goddess in them, not the > goddess herself (this is subjective love, still pure, and > differentiated only by the aspect presenting it). > > Love is given without attachment, without any demand for anything in > return. Love is given without expectation. Anything given to you by > someone with expectation, attachment, need, desire, thought, or > feeling, can be called something else, but it cannot be called Love. > I choose to call it co-dependence because it suits my understanding. > > There is one striking theme among humanity, it is explained very > well in a book called, "The Celestine Prophesy," by James Redfield. > However his solution is somewhat fanciful and impractical in my > opinion because it doesn't deal with the intense emotions that have > been born out of the theme. > > We are taught from day one that love is the ultimate goal (truth), > and then they add, "if you aren't loved you aren't worth anything." > (lie). This is not verbally stated, but is actually showed to us by > the example of our parents, close family, and society at large. > > From this "affliction" <- my term, we have one of two reactions > which, as infants we have zero control over. Our natures and our > parents natures determine our reaction and until we are old enough > to gain some consciousness we cannot stop ourselves from carrying > this affliction and acting unconsciously on it. > > The interplay of the unconscious (personality #2 according to Jung, > I prefer to think of it as the light of god[dess], or my soul), is > to force us to act on these false beliefs, to cause us to prove, > within reality, to ourselves that love is not something that can be > found in reality (life's irony). And we are driven by that innner > truth to witness it, to acknowledge it, to realize it. > > The reactions we have to that unconscious desire to witness the > truth are what the world see as co-dependence. There are two > extremes. The first is: introvertedness, where we go into our heads > and hide from the world and hope that someone will come and love us > to save us from ourselves. The second is extrovertedness, where we > go out into the world and try to find the love we think we need to > fill the void created by the lie. > > Each reaction is a form of denial. The simple fact is: the truth > hurts. We really don't want to know how messed up we are so we deny > the truth, and seek ways to distract ourselves from it. All you have > to do is watch your daily activities to witness distractions in > action. > > There are obvious ones like TV, music, games, drugs, alcohol, etc. > > But there are many not-so-obvious ones. Some people even use God to > hide from the truth. > > Don't get me wrong, anything can be utilized for our good or used > for our distraction (notice the similarity between that word and the > word destruction). Some have more benefit than others. We can do > anything with consciousness and learn from it, likewise we can do > anything seeking distraction and make it useless to us. > > Those who are not on a spirtual mission in this life will not have > any problems denying the truth. Some of them call > themselves "normal," and call those of us who are driven to > distraction, "abnormal." I am not very fond of the way those kind of > people think, but luckily I don't meet many of them. > > Those not on a spiritual mission will allow themselves to fit very > nicely with their main affliction and will spend their entire life > unconsciously trying to satisfy their needs. They will be driven by > their needs to use people to acquire the things they think they need > to survive, to be happy, to become "magically" whole. They will > however, never find wholeness (holiness) unless they face the truth. > The sociopaths in our society, the ones who never formed an > emotional bond with their parents, themselves, or the source will > feel no remorse over using others and will find denial almost as > easy as breathing. > > I could continue to expand outward to all the outer effects of > humanity's core affliction, but I best stick to the subject. > > Love, by my definition, exterminates all affliction. Love is truth, > truth is love and love of truth is the highest activity we can > perform as seva to goddess. However, those who would recognize > truths about others in deference to recognizing their inner truth > have found yet another distraction. Truth is an internal expression > of unity with god. Affliction is the condition by which we are > separated from the truth. And it exists only because we are taught > that its real and thus because we believe it, it is. > > A few years ago I made a commitment to myself. I decided consciously > (as consciously as I could) that I would find a way to love > everything the way that god loves me. > > Before you think, "oh that's obvious," realize that I KNOW (now) > WHAT IT MEANS. Do you? > > It means that you cannot hate anyone for any reason no matter what > they've done. > > It means that you cannot dislike anyone for any reason no matter > what they've done. > > It means that you have to love yourself, ALL OF YOURSELF, even the > parts you don't like and don't want to admit you have. > > It means that no matter how badly you feel in any given moment of > the day, no matter what you've experienced, no matter how many of > your "buttons," have been pushed, no matter how horrible everyone > has been treating you, no matter how badly your karmic fruit has > been pouring down on your head, you must love everyone as god loves > you. > > That means that if a person deliberately cuts you off on the road, > or unconsciously pulls a bone head maneuver that almost gets you > killed, you can only love them you are not allowed to express toward > them anything but that love. > > THINK ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS. > > THINK ABOUT THE FEELINGS YOU'LL HAVE RAGING INSIDE YOU. > > When I made that decision I really didn't know what I had done. > > And now I'm really just begining to get it. > > When someone through misjudgement, error, or just downright > negativity decides to be unkind to me, I have to stop my reactions > to their activity and let myself feel the emotions of the pain of > the affliction that equates their actions to my lack of self esteem. > > I was taught -- by example -- that if someone treats me badly, then > it must be my fault. Another word to describe it is guilt. > > My reaction is to go inward and blame myself. > > The opposite reaction is to project outward and blame the person. > > Neither reaction is healthy. In fact the only healthy reaction is NO > reaction. > > Committing yourself to a path of Love is a committment to truth and > to behaving like everyone around you is god and loving them just > like god loves us. > > Its also about loving yourself like god loves you. A lot of people > can love others but find it hard to accept and love themselves at > face value. They think "oh if only I was ..." or "oh if only I > wasn't ..." That isn't self love. The only way to begin to grow into > our soul, or as I like to say express our soul into reality is to > admit all of our faults and foibles, to accept them and to love them > and ourselves anyway. It is only through that admition of truth that > we can consciously take control of them, incorporate them back into > our beings and find out where they came from and what they were > before we bent them into unhealthy shapes. > > I have learned that loving others without loving yourself first is > just another form of co-dependence, because even if you don't know > it, when you give love to others without having first filled > yourself up, without connecting with yourself and at least accepting > yourself for where you are, you are giving love with expectation. > The expectation is: they won't hurt me with the truth about myself. > > This is already way too long. I can't find any way to distill this > subject matter because its so very complex. Its amazing how our > minds will make something complex to avoid seeing it in full light. > As if the truth could be twisted around enough to cast enough shadow > so that not all of it would be illumined by the light of wisdom. > > What I'm describing here is what we've done to ourselves to avoid > seeing how little love we actually feel in our day to day lives. > > My next topic will be Buttons, how to not react, how to disconnect > and how to utilize them for consciousness. > > Please contribute, ask for clarification, argue, what ever. I like > fleshing out my ideas and feelings. Ultimately my ideas and feelings > are given to me by my soul and by life as the ultimate > representation of my becoming whole with God(dess). > > *hugs* for my Devi Mandir family, > > Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Wonderful reply, thank you. My comments are inserted... At 03:38 AM 9/24/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Brian, > >A very lovely article. I write with alot of passion so I hope this >comes accross correctly..It's nice to see yogi's with knowledge I'm not a Yogi. I'm an engineer and a house holder. Well maybe I am, I guess I'll have to ask Swamiji what a Yogi is. I just keep thinking, "Hey Boo Boo! Why don't you help me round up a pica' nick basket?" >of psychology. In my experience, not very many have much knowlegde >about the subject and have prefered to cling to overly simple >ideologies that stem from religion. By religion, I mean the >superficial fundamentals that God will take all the pain away and we >only need to focus on God. Well, that is a good thing to do, don't >get me wrong but we have to be careful not to fall into the Pollyanna >Complex... > >LOVE brings up anything unlike itself to be healed. This is the part This is the best way I've seen it described, thank you very much. >that I have witnessed most spritual practitioners or yogi's/yogini's >to ignore, deny or supress. The material that comes up in the >process of self reflection and in finding self love again can be >overwhelming especially when our 'Ego's'' and our 'Yogi Ego's' want >so badly to appear perfect. In the beginnning we believe Spiritual >people are supposed to be centered and grounded and so we try and >look like that so we can be spiritual...however that is all >appearances. The material coming up most likely is a Gem from Ma in >answering our prayers to pull us closer... and most I have witnessed >who do not have emotional knowledge seem to think the proper burial >of this material is more Godly, when in fact it's Fear. I've seen >the most revered people in communities bury, repress, supress and >then oppress others because they will not let the process of >purification unfold because of what 'It Looks Like' especially when >they are leading others. What we suppress and repress in ourselves, >we will start to oppress in others and this is violence... albeit >unconscious, but violent behavior thru unawareness. I totally understand this. People react to the feelings and thoughts that are brought up by consciousness with fear and that reaction slows the healing process. The thrust themselves deeper into denial to be something that they are not. They deny the part of themselves that need healing, giving it only one outlet, the unconscious. >You mention "The Truth hurts". I've always found the opposite to be >true. The Truth heals, it's the wound that hurts and the wound is >very open in the beginning. The truth is the knife that slices the This is a very good point. I was writing the "truth hurts" from the perspective of the reluctant student -- people who don't want to feel the hurt. The truth really just makes us aware of the wound, its like removing a flesh colored, Novocaine bandage from a festering wound. Hell yeah its going to hurt, but it needs to hurt to heal. The analogy I tell people form time to time is: emotion is like the blood of the emotional body, and likewise thought is the blood of the mind. In our bodies when we are cut, the cut bleeds to allow the healing to begin and the wound hurts to tell us to be gentle with the area and to tell our bodies where to send the healing energy. Emotions and thoughts are exactly the same thing for our emotional and mental bodies. If we have an emotion or a thought its goal is to heal us of some abrasion. But most people don't see it that way. They think feelings are irrational and that thoughts are rational and logical. They think that just because a thought can lead logically to another thought that the thought is somehow better for them than the emotion, and worse than that they suppress their emotions and try to develop their thoughts. This of course throws the workings of the lower bodies out of balance and you end up with intellectuals (people who have underdeveloped emotional bodies and over developed / wounded mental bodies.) >Lie open to be revealed for what it is...a Lie. Usually this is when >the emotional material comes up to wash away the infection (tears). >The Truth when embraced continues to heal the wound. Eventually, >with Understanding, one can relax into the Truth and then be High on >love all the time. You mentioned Love is to be attained to... When >we embrace the Truth, WE ARE LOVE just as GOD IS. In my path, the >True Healing of separation is what is to be worked toward so we can >uncover the Truth that is already there and that is, We Are Love. I think we are more than love, but I certainly understand the sentiment. For me love is energy and like Swamiji taught me about the greeting "Namaste," with all my energy and consciousness I bow to the divinity within you. I believe we are energy and consciousness. I think its important to realize that there is a higher mind that is just as important as Love (with a capital L). >Have you noticed in relationships that the more love and safety there >is, the more unhealed material arises to be healed? It's a Yes. And have you noticed how people who want to stay in denial require others to accept their co-dependent behavior as normal and healthy all the while they are just playing out a reoccurring drama that they learned in childhood? The issues come to the surface because they must. An unconscious individual will not question the feelings, but will instead react to them in the way they are accustomed to do so. For example, an angry person will project the anger outward causing either anger or aloofness in those around them. Either way the person feels emotionally comfortable and is pacified of their internal fears and hurts. They don't have to face them because they can put the blame on someone else. "I'm in a crappy mood because so and so did this to me," or "geez I'm just trying to share what a crappy day I'm having and so and so got angry over nothing." To stand up to the negativity and the old patterns and stop the reaction within the seeker, the power of love along with the power of consciousness must be present, you have to have both to confront the darkness within people or yourself because consciousness brings you to awareness of what is really happening and love is the tool by which consciousness is transmitted and healing accomplished. Once the reaction is stopped, the desired feedback is not given, the transmitter of the negative emotion (whether within us or a person separate from us) is not qualified with the feelings he or she expects and is left confused. That confusion is where consciousness can slip in and where love from the seeker can expose the wound the negative person is concealing. If the wound is internal, healing will begin as soon as the pain is felt. The pitfall is to react to the pain with negativity. "I don't deserve this!" or "Why can't I just let go of it all NOW!" >purification process when all our relationships are divine. People >are always on their best behavior when there is no safety, since we >fear judgement. Once we feel emotionally safe, our guards come down >and the purification comes and we should embrace it even though it >feels horrible at times. These are gifts to be embraced to help us Almost no one I know will allow themselves to believe this. Its the core of my understanding. Just because you feel horrible, doesn't mean you are horrible. And just because your feel crazy or think crazy thoughts doesn't mean you are crazy, its just part of the healing process and everyone goes through something completely unique to them. It is not possible for one person to be normal and another to be abnormal, we are all unique. >transform. We cannot transform something we are in denial of. This Exactly. >will also teach us surrendering. > >The very thing to be healed is the belief of separation and death. >This is the Lie. If you notice our relationships with others are >reflections of our relationships with the Divine. Look closely. How >often do we create a co-dependant relationship with God? We mirror Exactly! People expect God to do things for them, thus they don't Love God, they are in codependence with god. And god doesn't do codependence, she can't so she just loves us and hopes that we'll see that we are the only thing limiting our relationship with her. >the same dynamics with God that we do our parents and lovers. Our >parents ARE GOD to us when we are infants and what they do forms our >beliefs about who we are. Once we learn of God when we can >communicate, then becomes the dysfunction of what our parents and >sunday school teachers taught and we have to admit, most of us were >taught by people who's lives and relationships were a mess and who >had very distorted views of what God is or how we should relate to >God. This all needs to be healed if we are to attain the Highest. And that is the spiritual path from my perspective. Connecting with the truth that is our true nature. >For me the Truth Heals and feels Gooooood and We Are Love. Om Tat And consciousness too! Thanks much Kelly. Good conversation. Jai Maa, Brian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Yogi Brian:) Namaste. I can't tell you how wonderful it was last night to read your comments back to me. It's not often I come across people who are knowledgable of the emotional body and what heals it. Sometimes I see the emotional body like the undertow in the ocean. The unconsious emotions we bury and unquestioned beliefs we call our own are the undertow and run the main currents in our life. They are what truely run our thoughts and lives. The surface waters I see are the emotions influenced by action and reaction. The surface is a very small part of the power of the emotional body. When the undertow is healed by diving deep into buried material, that undertow can become a huge force for Love and consciousness that assists us in becoming loving, aware beings. Thank you for your analogies. Since my work is emotional healing thru Rebirthing, your analogy of emotions being the blood of the emotional body and so forth were great. If you don't mind, I'm going to use that in my practice. And if you ask me, you are a Yogi. You think beyond the obvious in order to understand so that your awareness is united in union, so you are Yogi.. Blessings to you. Have a good day. Namaste. Kelly , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > Wonderful reply, thank you. My comments are inserted... > > At 03:38 AM 9/24/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >Brian, > > > >A very lovely article. I write with alot of passion so I hope this > >comes accross correctly..It's nice to see yogi's with knowledge > > I'm not a Yogi. I'm an engineer and a house holder. Well maybe I am, I > guess I'll have to ask Swamiji what a Yogi is. > > I just keep thinking, "Hey Boo Boo! Why don't you help me round up a pica' > nick basket?" > > >of psychology. In my experience, not very many have much knowlegde > >about the subject and have prefered to cling to overly simple > >ideologies that stem from religion. By religion, I mean the > >superficial fundamentals that God will take all the pain away and we > >only need to focus on God. Well, that is a good thing to do, don't > >get me wrong but we have to be careful not to fall into the Pollyanna > >Complex... > > > >LOVE brings up anything unlike itself to be healed. This is the part > > This is the best way I've seen it described, thank you very much. > > >that I have witnessed most spritual practitioners or yogi's/yogini's > >to ignore, deny or supress. The material that comes up in the > >process of self reflection and in finding self love again can be > >overwhelming especially when our 'Ego's'' and our 'Yogi Ego's' want > >so badly to appear perfect. In the beginnning we believe Spiritual > >people are supposed to be centered and grounded and so we try and > >look like that so we can be spiritual...however that is all > >appearances. The material coming up most likely is a Gem from Ma in > >answering our prayers to pull us closer... and most I have witnessed > >who do not have emotional knowledge seem to think the proper burial > >of this material is more Godly, when in fact it's Fear. I've seen > >the most revered people in communities bury, repress, supress and > >then oppress others because they will not let the process of > >purification unfold because of what 'It Looks Like' especially when > >they are leading others. What we suppress and repress in ourselves, > >we will start to oppress in others and this is violence... albeit > >unconscious, but violent behavior thru unawareness. > > I totally understand this. People react to the feelings and thoughts that > are brought up by consciousness with fear and that reaction slows the > healing process. The thrust themselves deeper into denial to be something > that they are not. They deny the part of themselves that need healing, > giving it only one outlet, the unconscious. > > > >You mention "The Truth hurts". I've always found the opposite to be > >true. The Truth heals, it's the wound that hurts and the wound is > >very open in the beginning. The truth is the knife that slices the > > This is a very good point. I was writing the "truth hurts" from the > perspective of the reluctant student -- people who don't want to feel the > hurt. The truth really just makes us aware of the wound, its like removing > a flesh colored, Novocaine bandage from a festering wound. Hell yeah its > going to hurt, but it needs to hurt to heal. The analogy I tell people form > time to time is: emotion is like the blood of the emotional body, and > likewise thought is the blood of the mind. In our bodies when we are cut, > the cut bleeds to allow the healing to begin and the wound hurts to tell us > to be gentle with the area and to tell our bodies where to send the healing > energy. Emotions and thoughts are exactly the same thing for our emotional > and mental bodies. If we have an emotion or a thought its goal is to heal > us of some abrasion. > > But most people don't see it that way. They think feelings are irrational > and that thoughts are rational and logical. They think that just because a > thought can lead logically to another thought that the thought is somehow > better for them than the emotion, and worse than that they suppress their > emotions and try to develop their thoughts. This of course throws the > workings of the lower bodies out of balance and you end up with > intellectuals (people who have underdeveloped emotional bodies and over > developed / wounded mental bodies.) > > >Lie open to be revealed for what it is...a Lie. Usually this is when > >the emotional material comes up to wash away the infection (tears). > >The Truth when embraced continues to heal the wound. Eventually, > >with Understanding, one can relax into the Truth and then be High on > >love all the time. You mentioned Love is to be attained to... When > >we embrace the Truth, WE ARE LOVE just as GOD IS. In my path, the > >True Healing of separation is what is to be worked toward so we can > >uncover the Truth that is already there and that is, We Are Love. > > I think we are more than love, but I certainly understand the sentiment. > For me love is energy and like Swamiji taught me about the greeting > "Namaste," with all my energy and consciousness I bow to the divinity > within you. I believe we are energy and consciousness. > > I think its important to realize that there is a higher mind that is just > as important as Love (with a capital L). > > > >Have you noticed in relationships that the more love and safety there > >is, the more unhealed material arises to be healed? It's a > > Yes. And have you noticed how people who want to stay in denial require > others to accept their co-dependent behavior as normal and healthy all the > while they are just playing out a reoccurring drama that they learned in > childhood? > > The issues come to the surface because they must. An unconscious individual > will not question the feelings, but will instead react to them in the way > they are accustomed to do so. For example, an angry person will project the > anger outward causing either anger or aloofness in those around them. > Either way the person feels emotionally comfortable and is pacified of > their internal fears and hurts. They don't have to face them because they > can put the blame on someone else. "I'm in a crappy mood because so and so > did this to me," or "geez I'm just trying to share what a crappy day I'm > having and so and so got angry over nothing." > > To stand up to the negativity and the old patterns and stop the reaction > within the seeker, the power of love along with the power of consciousness > must be present, you have to have both to confront the darkness within > people or yourself because consciousness brings you to awareness of what is > really happening and love is the tool by which consciousness is transmitted > and healing accomplished. Once the reaction is stopped, the desired > feedback is not given, the transmitter of the negative emotion (whether > within us or a person separate from us) is not qualified with the feelings > he or she expects and is left confused. That confusion is where > consciousness can slip in and where love from the seeker can expose the > wound the negative person is concealing. If the wound is internal, healing > will begin as soon as the pain is felt. The pitfall is to react to the pain > with negativity. "I don't deserve this!" or "Why can't I just let go of it > all NOW!" > > >purification process when all our relationships are divine. People > >are always on their best behavior when there is no safety, since we > >fear judgement. Once we feel emotionally safe, our guards come down > >and the purification comes and we should embrace it even though it > >feels horrible at times. These are gifts to be embraced to help us > > Almost no one I know will allow themselves to believe this. Its the core of > my understanding. Just because you feel horrible, doesn't mean you are > horrible. And just because your feel crazy or think crazy thoughts doesn't > mean you are crazy, its just part of the healing process and everyone goes > through something completely unique to them. It is not possible for one > person to be normal and another to be abnormal, we are all unique. > > >transform. We cannot transform something we are in denial of. This > > Exactly. > > >will also teach us surrendering. > > > >The very thing to be healed is the belief of separation and death. > >This is the Lie. If you notice our relationships with others are > >reflections of our relationships with the Divine. Look closely. How > >often do we create a co-dependant relationship with God? We mirror > > Exactly! People expect God to do things for them, thus they don't Love God, > they are in codependence with god. And god doesn't do codependence, she > can't so she just loves us and hopes that we'll see that we are the only > thing limiting our relationship with her. > > >the same dynamics with God that we do our parents and lovers. Our > >parents ARE GOD to us when we are infants and what they do forms our > >beliefs about who we are. Once we learn of God when we can > >communicate, then becomes the dysfunction of what our parents and > >sunday school teachers taught and we have to admit, most of us were > >taught by people who's lives and relationships were a mess and who > >had very distorted views of what God is or how we should relate to > >God. This all needs to be healed if we are to attain the Highest. > > And that is the spiritual path from my perspective. Connecting with the > truth that is our true nature. > > > >For me the Truth Heals and feels Gooooood and We Are Love. Om Tat > > And consciousness too! > > Thanks much Kelly. Good conversation. > > Jai Maa, > > Brian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release 9/18/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 any demand for anything in>return. Love is given without expectation. Anything given to you by>someone with expectation, attachment, need, desire, thought, or>feeling, can be called something else, but it cannot be called Love.>I choose to call it co-dependence because it suits my understanding.>>There is one striking theme among humanity, it is explained very>well in a book called, "The Celestine Prophesy," by James Redfield.>However his solution is somewhat fanciful and impractical in my>opinion because it doesn't deal with the intense emotions that have>been born out of the theme.>>We are taught from day one that love is the ultimate goal (truth),>and then they add, "if you aren't loved you aren't worth anything.">(lie). This is not verbally stated, but is actually showed to us by>the example of our parents, close family, and society at large.>>From this "affliction" <- my term, we have one of two reactions>which, as infants we have zero control over. Our natures and our>parents natures determine our reaction and until we are old enough>to gain some consciousness we cannot stop ourselves from carrying>this affliction and acting unconsciously on it.>>The interplay of the unconscious (personality #2 according to Jung,>I prefer to think of it as the light of god[dess], or my soul), is>to force us to act on these false beliefs, to cause us to prove,>within reality, to ourselves that love is not something that can be>found in reality (life's irony). And we are driven by that innner>truth to witness it, to acknowledge it, to realize it.>>The reactions we have to that unconscious desire to witness the>truth are what the world see as co-dependence. There are two>extremes. The first is: introvertedness, where we go into our heads>and hide from the world and hope that someone will come and love us>to save us from ourselves. The second is extrovertedness, where we>go out into the world and try to find the love we think we need to>fill the void created by the lie.>>Each reaction is a form of denial. The simple fact is: the truth>hurts. We really don't want to know how messed up we are so we deny>the truth, and seek ways to distract ourselves from it. All you have>to do is watch your daily activities to witness distractions in>action.>>There are obvious ones like TV, music, games, drugs, alcohol, etc.>>But there are many not-so-obvious ones. Some people even use God to>hide from the truth.>>Don't get me wrong, anything can be utilized for our good or used>for our distraction (notice the similarity between that word and the>word destruction). Some have more benefit than others. We can do>anything with consciousness and learn from it, likewise we can do>anything seeking distraction and make it useless to us.>>Those who are not on a spirtual mission in this life will not have>any problems denying the truth. Some of them call>themselves "normal," and call those of us who are driven to>distraction, "abnormal." I am not very fond of the way those kind of>people think, but luckily I don't meet many of them.>>Those not on a spiritual mission will allow themselves to fit very>nicely with their main affliction and will spend their entire life>unconsciously trying to satisfy their needs. They will be driven by>their needs to use people to acquire the things they think they need>to survive, to be happy, to become "magically" whole. They will>however, never find wholeness (holiness) unless they face the truth.>The sociopaths in our society, the ones who never formed an>emotional bond with their parents, themselves, or the source will>feel no remorse over using othe rs and will find denial almost as>easy as breathing.>>I could continue to expand outward to all the outer effects of>humanity's core affliction, but I best stick to the subject.>>Love, by my definition, exterminates all affliction. Love is truth,>truth is love and love of truth is the highest activity we can>perform as seva to goddess. However, those who would recognize>truths about others in deference to recognizing their inner truth>have found yet another distraction. Truth is an internal expression>of unity with god. Affliction is the condition by which we are>separated from the truth. And it exists only because we are taught>that its real and thus because we believe it, it is.>>A few years ago I made a commitment to myself. I decided consciously>(as consciously as I could) that I would find a way to love>everything the way that god loves me.>>Before you think, "oh that's obvious," realize that I KNOW (now)>WHAT IT MEANS. Do you?>>It means that you cannot hate anyone for any reason no matter what>they've done.>>It means that you cannot dislike anyone for any reason no matter>what they've done.>>It means that you have to love yourself, ALL OF YOURSELF, even the>parts you don't like and don't want to admit you have.>>It means that no matter how badly you feel in any given moment of>the day, no matter what you've experienced, no matter how many of>your "buttons," have been pushed, no matter how horrible everyone>has been treating you, no matter how badly your karmic fruit has>been pouring down on your head, you must love everyone as god loves>you.>>That means that if a person deliberately cuts you off on the road,>or unconsciously pulls a bone head maneuver that almost gets you>killed, you can only love them you are not allowed to express toward>them anything but that love.>>THINK ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS.>>THINK ABOUT THE FEELINGS YOU'LL HAVE RAGING INSIDE YOU.>>When I made that decision I really didn't know what I had done.>>And now I'm really just begining to get it.>>When someone through misjudgement, error, or just downright>negativity decides to be unkind to me, I have to stop my reactions>to their activity and let myself feel the emotions of the pain of>the affliction that equates their actions to my lack of self esteem.>>I was taught -- by example -- that if someone treats me badly, then>it must be my fault. Another word to describe it is guilt.>>My reaction is to go inward and blame myself.>>The opposite reaction is to project outward and blame the person.>>Neither reaction is healthy. In fact the only healthy reaction is NO>reaction.>>Committing yourself to a path of Love is a committment to truth and>to behaving like everyone around you is god and loving them just>like god loves us.>>Its also about loving yourself like god loves you. A lot of people>can love others but find it hard to accept and love themselves at>face value. They think "oh if only I was ..." or "oh if only I>wasn't ..." That isn't self love. The only way to begin to grow into>our soul, or as I like to say express our soul into reality is to>admit all of our faults and foibles, to accept them and to love them>and ourselves anyway. It is only through that admition of truth that>we can consciously take control of them, incorporate them back into>our beings and find out where they came from and what they were>before we bent them into unhealthy shapes.>>I have learned that loving others without loving yourself first is>just another form of co-dependence, because even if you don't know >it, when you give love to others without having first filled>yourself up, without connecting with yourself and at least accepting>yourself for where you are, you are giving love with expectation.>The expectation is: they won't hurt me with the truth about myself.>>This is already way too long. I can't find any way to distill this>subject matter because its so very complex. Its amazing how our>minds will make something complex to avoid seeing it in full light.>As if the truth could be twisted around enough to cast enough shadow>so that not all of it would be illumined by the light of wisdom.>>What I'm describing here is what we've done to ourselves to avoid>seeing how little love we actually feel in our day to day lives.>>My next topic will be Buttons, how to not react, how to disconnect>and how to utilize them for consciousness.>>Please contribute, ask for clarification, argue, what ever. I like>fleshing out my ideas and feelings. Ultimately my ideas and feelings>are given to me by my soul and by life as the ultimate>representation of my becoming whole with God(dess).>>*hugs* for my Devi Mandir family,>>Brian>>_______________Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~-->Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or LexmarkPrinter at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511http://us.click./mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/XUWolB/TM---~->To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 e. They are what truely run our thoughts and lives. The surface waters I see are the emotions influencedby action and reaction. The surface is a very small part of the powerof the emotional body. When the undertow is healed by diving deep into buried material, that undertow can become a huge force for Love and consciousness that assists us in becoming loving, aware beings.Thank you for your analogies. Since my work is emotional healing thru Rebirthing, your analogy of emotions being the blood of the emotional body and so forth were great. If you don't mind, I'm going to use that in my practice.And if you ask me, you are a Yogi. You think beyond the obvious in order to understand so that your awareness is united in union, so you are Yogi..Blessings to you. Have a good day. Namaste.KellyNo banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 25, 2003 My humble salutations, As many would say that it is imposible to define love, I think we first must try to define it and come to the conclusion ourself by having such a wonderfull disscussion like this... Her I am rtying to join in the fun of the Leela (divine play) First I asked myself how did I know what is love. I realised that what I define as Love is what I perceive Love to be. And also realised that what one person perceive cannot be the same as the way it is perceived by another. According to Swami -ji Maharaj, in his explanations of the Kashyapa Suutra, Suutra #6 "Jiivasaubhaagyam Prakaashanam" Maharaj explained that there are three modes of preception: Preception through the senses (organs of knowladge), Preceptions of conceptions and the preceptions of intuition, illumination, feeling, emotion, or beyond. Since love is what we perceive it to be then there are three levels or modes of this preception. This can conclude that none of the defination of love can be said wrong because it depends on what mode of preception you are looking love at. But if we are talking about Supreme Love (parama prema) then that is a different matter all togather. Some call it unconditional love but I think that unconditionalling love is a condition by itself. Supreme Love here means not intense love but the the deepest possible one. Its a point wher it is very difficult to explain because ist a point where it is nor a shelfish love nor a unselfish love. We love for the sake of love. Lets talk about the love for God... First we would say that I love God so I acknowlagde that there is " I " , something called " Love " and " God " then we move to a state where the relationship is understood and where it cannot be defined by the mind but there is still a sense of I. Then we will move on where we would realise that only God exsits and all the rest is a reflection of "that". And we begin to love all the reflections of God the same deepest possible way as we love God no matter what you call Him and Her. The easiest way to start is to start loving God with sincerity and honesty and all the rest will come. Love sincerity will show you the way to Supreme Love. Please correct me if I am wrong... My Humble Salutation to Swami-ji Maharaj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
