debate, Captain Maniscalco, mahaksadasa

[mahak 0]

Haribol, audarya fellowship readers and writers. On another topic line, Captain John Maniscalco took some time to post a thoughtful article, titled "Do You Love America". I had posted as a guest an article very critical of the present US administration, and I take it that the Captain was responding to my criticism. This letter is very good in that it is written from the heart, not the usual drivel inspired by FOX commentators and hardliners from the administration itself. I am not Arab, nor Muslim, but I wish to respond to this article in a way to show that perhaps many of us who oppose the carnage just may love this country even to a greater degree than the anti-christians who now enjoy severe control over the US population.

 

Captain Maniscalco:

 

"I've been trying to say this since 9-11 but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. The Palestinians celebrated, The Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

First of all, if you are a member of the US military, I personally thank you for your service. The criminal act was very disturbing to all sane people. But no nation sponsored this event. Yassar Arafat, then leader of the Palestinians, denounced the act. Saddam Hussein, then leader of Iraq, was silent. The terrorist group who had no nation supporting them except the outlaw Taliban was celebrating, as wrere many people (animals) who like this type of outlaw activity. Arab Nation after Arab Nation came to our side then to denounce this terrible act which killed many devout people of all faiths, including many Muslims who used the World Trade Center on that fateful day. When we see the dancing in the streets by those living in Palestine or Iraq, we are seeing an event deemed newsworthy by those who use the press to enrich the corporations that own them. A film of somber crowds does not sell, but the cheering throng film does.

 

 

Captain Maniscalco:

"So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim-Americans and the Arab/Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

As with any criminal, behavior is the determining factor. It is not easy, and vigilance is required. However, to go on a hate spree against all hippies because Charlie Manson butchered those enemies of his into the same cultish demon worship that he was is certainly not warranted.

 

Captain Maniscalco:

"I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to k now whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? "

 

mahaksadasa:

This is probably addressed to arab americans, but as a regular American, Ill answer. No, I do not pledge alliegence to any flag. This is forbideden by the ten commandments as well as all Vaisnava precepts. Lord Jesus states that the greatest commandment is to place allegiance only to the Supreme Lord. Worship of flags is idolatry. As far as America goes, I have served as a civilian for the Department of Defense for twenty five years. My son has just returned from the gulf as a US military member. Because I am very familiar with the real American ideal, I understand that the code of ethics demands that I put my country before any specific agency of that country. In other words, America is above such things as republican or democrat. America is beyond the Department of Defense. Any conflict between an agency and the US constitution DEMANDS that one reject the AGENCY in favor of AMERICA and its constitution.

I will continue to address your letter later, as I am short on time today. If you are not the writer of this article, or someone else posted this in your name as if you were a user of this forum, I apologize for starting this thread. Others, if you have something intelligent to say, be my guest, but dont just spout off your typical hanratty or limbaugh line.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Captain Maniscalo:

 

"Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your "Jihads"?"

 

mahaksadasa:

 

I pray that I be allowed to reciprocate the unconditional love that Allah (Krsna) has for me. To pray to a god to protect one nation at the expense of another is ignorance of the real position of the self. I was born in this nation, but this birth is temporary, and nationalism is illusion. However, I do pray like Lord Jesus Christ instructs, that the Supreme Father Father will forgive my tresspasses, but the condition of this prayer is linked to how I forgive those who tresspass against me. If I cannot forgive my enemies for their offenses, then I am asking God, every time I utter the Lord's Prayer, to withhold forgiveness to me in the same manner.

 

TBC mahaksadasa

[mahak 0]

Captain Maniscalco:

"Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it."

mahaksadasa:

I will gladly let you know about, thank you for asking. The freedom this nation used to afford is all but gone, due to the impious slavery imposed by those claiming to be of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that freedom has also been illusory from the very start. A horrible philosophy of "manifest destiny" is present even at the dawn of this nation. Our materialistic expansionism has left bloody karma that may be impossible to socially remove. From the newcomer European came a doctrine that this nation was manifestly theirs, given somehow by god. Therefore, in the name of this god, the euro types left no nation standing, slaughtering even in peace overtures, giving blankets laced with smallpox. We permanently occupied the indigenious nations of the west, and placed the inhabitant survivors in areas deemed undesirable at the time, and when materials of the industrial age were found on these lands, no treaty was kept, justified by the god of manifest destiny philosophy. Presently, the arabic nations are clamoring about the evil of Zionism, but such evil is just conveniently re-named from our own manifest destiny, chosen people, etc.

The thousands of patriots you mention may not really be as patriotic as yopu think. Your word "patriot" can be accurately defined as those beautiful and vibrant young men (and women) who were destroyed by America for political purposes. There is no warfare in Kali Yuga that is righteous and just. Even a clear cut war in which we were attacked, WWII, there are so many double-dealings that we can see no righteousness. From our corporations freely arming Germany and Japan prior to the conflict to the politicians who lent favor to the killers of our children, the USA is NOT representative of Lord Jesus Christ, Krsna, Muhhammed.

So, you want me to pay the price and join in on manifest destiny? Sorry, Ill sing Jefferson Airplane (as amerikkkan as apple pie and baseball) here, "just give me my son, because Id rather have my country die for me."

Captain Maniscusco:

 

"Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America -your great country -- at this time of crisis, at this time of war?"

 

mahaksadasa:

I agree that there is falsity in religions. But we cannot point at just the muslim, who may all agree that the end of the great satan is the best. The self-proclaimed christian has the same desire. We see it here that many would love to see the end of Islam.

However, this war is not warrented, and if we cannot understand that most of the world has condemned US for unprovoked invasion of a nation not even slightly linked to 9-11, then we wont be able to claim righteousness in our cause. Unprovoked attacks are not simply the evil of al qaieda, George Bush and his criminal administration are just as culpable.

 

Captain Maniscalco:

"I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America". I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole. The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them; You know where they are.

 

Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals."

mahaksadasa:

Forget it, it will not happen. Fanatics will never give up their beliefs given to them by their mullahs, priests, gurus. But fanaticism is not one-sided, either. See the movie, Red Dawn, to see an accurate depiction of how america would react to invasion and occupation. Only victory is an option, for both sides, just like Kuruksetra, all parties marching into the flames of historic annihilation.

 

Cpt. Maniscalco:

 

"The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people then I w ant chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance?"

mahaksadasa:

Sad commentary, brother. It seems that you do not know the code of ethics. You seem to think that "proof" is not needed for us to shock and awe the world. You demand scriptural evidence from the quran that allows muslime to allow the Zionist and the Manifest Destiny freaks to roll over their own, which is not avialable. Is there reference in the Bible allowing atheistic communism to overrun us with their idealism? And do you not accept the sovereign rights of independent nations or established religions? Arafat, Khadaffi, etc, may not be our cup of tea, but why single them out? Korea, China, Russia, Zimbabwe, Germany, France, etc, all are sovereigns, too, and their leaders lead them with nationalism ideologiues that differ from ours as well. Oh, and you conveniently left out the leaders of Uzbekistan, Saudi, Egypt, and Israel, for that matter, US allies that do not embrace to the slightest degree with your "proclaimation of tolerance and peace and love for all people" demands.

Capt Maniscalco:

"It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion."

mahaksadasa:

Where is the evidence that incorrect interpretation has taken place? All religions operate on exclusivity. No religion embraces other theistic approaches. Krsna demands all Vaisnavas to give up all varieties of such religiosity for this very reason. Such false identification with exclusive religions is in direct opposition of giving full allegiance to the Supreme Person, and loving all others to the degree that one honors themselves and their own ilk.

tbc, ys, mahaksadasa

 

[Kulapavana 0]

Mahaksaji, Captain John Maniscalco does not exist. It's just a propaganda piece most likely written in Jerusalem by the same team that spouts similar political deception. They wont stop untill the entire world is in flames, and then they will tell you: "See! We told you so!"

Hate breeds hate and they are her children... It is only sad that so many devotees give in to such malice and small-mindedness out of fear for their body...

(Anderson - Yes)

"As long as we see there's only us, who can change it;

Only us to rearrange it at the start of a new kind of day.

And in a time that's closer, life will be even bolder then.

Love is the only answer, hate is the root of cancer then."

[mahak 0]

Haribol. Thanks, Kula, I kinda knew this to be the case. It is a sign of these fools' deceptions that they post here like they were members. The proper way is for someone who may have liked such a propaganda piece to announce their name, then post as a third party. Oh well, Im having fun, so Ill continue. My main point here is to show that these fascists have no copyright on patriotism to country.

....

Capt. Maniscalco:

 

"A form (of religion) that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

Where were we? Are you discussing Islam, Judaism, or christianity here? Violence is inherant in fanaticism, even though the founders of the religions the fanatics try to project as theirs have no inclination toward violence toward the innocent. The violence described in such religions' scriptures are fully justified by direct peril, not political ideologies.

 

Capt. Maniscalco:

 

"A form (of religion) whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

Fanaticism directly affects those who have no protection, and this is truely sad. The propaganda has destroyed forever the right of freedom of thought, the children are told that hatred of others is acceptable by the Supreme Being. But, again, dont point fingers unless you go the full 360 degrees and count your own fault, your own propaganda of hatred you instill your children with, the propaganda of hate that is drilled into the US military, whose majority (of lower level grunt pawns sacrificed) is still thinking that the Iraqis to be administered outlawed Phosphorus gas had something even remotely connected with the criminals who blew up WTC on 9-11.

Capt. Maniscalco:

 

 

"Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire Middle East?"

 

mahaksadasa:

 

What a total crock. Under Saddam Hussein, the women carried themselves as proudly as in Anytown USA. Under the puppet regime set up by the USA in Iraq, the women are treated like good christian women, as chattel, whose views are not sought and whose bodies are meant to satisfy the whims of the demons who cannot distinguish between the body and the self. A true disciple of Lord Jesus Christ cannot practice in the new regime, the shiite law will outlaw all of this. Israel does not allow christiaqn marriage to a jew. Befriending Israel is not the problem, either. It is our support of their Zionism, their expansionism in complete disregard for UN resolutions, our utter hypocricy in supplying billions upon billions to their militaristic domination of the entire region, despite their gross minority.

Capt. Maniscalco:

"And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave I want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

Who are you to demand anything. But I appreciate your sentiments about never giving in to anyone's influence or retarded mentality, twisted, violent, intolerant religion. In fact, I expaqnd this to beg the intelligent among us to abandon all forms of such fanaticism, be it Islam, Christian, or Judaic oriented.

 

Capt. Maniscalco:

 

"We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the world."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

Oh yes you will, and you have. The US allowed the attacks to take place, and this allowance was perpetrated for the very purpose to diminish and destroy all the rights guaranteed by the US constitution. The Bush Administration hates the constitution, hates the soldiers in the US military, and this hatred is displayed for all who have one iota of intelligence to see. What brought on this discussion is that democracy is shown if the government fears the people, and this government fears the people so much that only fascism will protect them. They demand that the people fear them, and this is utter tyranny.

 

Capt. Maniscalco:

 

"I want to know where every Arab/ Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to YOU to show ME where YOU stand. Until then ...you worry me."

 

mahaksadasa:

 

You dont worry me, rather I am saddened that you cannot discern reality from the think-tank philosophy that is driven into you, just as horrendous as the drivel coming from the worst of the fanatic mullahs that pose as those of religious intent. You will destroy this world, but that doesnt worry me, either, because I have come to know that this world is called Martyaloka, the place of Death. I may worry you because you think Im your adversary, but I am equal to all, and see that in this age of chaos, quarrel, and confusion, there is no justification is engaging in a war that cannot be fought between warring parties. All you fools equally have no military intelligence, all of you are horrible terrorists who slaughter innocent men, women, and children to try to gain a BS political position of superiority. But you all die, too, because the god worshipped by you gross materialists is Death.

 

I wish there was a real Capt. Maniscalco. I have this same type conversation with those returning from duty in Iraq all the time. Some want to kill me, some think hard for the controversial points I make, and most (and I sincerely mean most) are quite in agreement, having lived the atrocity first hand.

 

 

For the Vaisnava reader, this aint no different than discussing who will make the NCAA Final Four. Our real business, in peace or war, living in luxury or dog-dirty in a survival camp after the final cut of Armageddon, is to sing to Krsna, call his name, like a bewildered child who calls MAMA.

 

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare.

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Ys mahaksadasa

 

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[D B Cooper Jr 0]

I admit you make some intelligent thought provoking points in your address to this Captain. I definetly can't blame anyone for being against the war or any war for that matter. I voted for Bush twice because I watched the tactics that Clintons lawyers used against Juanita Broderick, and that other woman that he messed around with and decided I didn't want anyone in the White House who is associated with Bill Clinton due to his lack of moral character. If he would have been honest from the start and just said "you know what, I am just a dog at heart, I can't keep my hands of beautiful women, or even not so beautiful women, when they throw themselves at me, or even when they don't" I could have had some respect for him for being honest.

 

I knew when we went to Iraq that would effectively be the end of Bush's Presidency even though at some level I can understand shutting down Saddam.

 

It seems a virtual certainty that the liberals will be back in power very soon and it will probably be Hillary Clinton and her cronies that get their hands on the steering wheel of this tragi-comedy called the material world.

 

I don't know if Krsna has a sick sense of humor if he is the one empowering these people or if it is our fault because we are the ones empowering them and we want to be fooled.

 

I have read that not even a blade of grass moves without Krsna's sanction so I guess for some reason he wants these people in power. I guess it is possible that Bush and the Clintons are devotees and Krsna sent them to the material world to play as demons so he could fight them so maybe Krsna will ultimately save us from these people I don't know.