Bush - the greatest danger facing US

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

 

whatever, dude... I like bagels... and matzos

 

 

but seriously... you should examine your own feelings towards Arabs and Islam for starters. once you get off your high horse, I might be able to explain something to you...

 

Without a doubt you have failed to note my EXTENSIVE writing in favor of real Muslims and - I have not said anything bad about Arabs - you just do a search and see. Unless you think that the groups and individuals I've been critical of are actually respectable??

 

I'm not sure at times of your real position on this point.

 

I don't like to ride horses...I do like to offer cream cheese frosting w/bagles never had a matzos before - if you like it I'm sure I would too - because bhoga [foods] are something we shall agree on - without a doubt!

 

So please do that search and see that I'm broadminded in my approach to the Biblical tradition - all three of them!

 

Do I lean to one more than the others? Maybe. When dealing with others - we all have preferences and they do not have to be mutually exclusive in one's estimation - right?

 

I only wish that we would see the Arab League nations take a very proactive role - in forming a coalition of their own - to chase down and bring to justice those who do all this evil in the name of Islam and - who at the end of the day - bring ill-sentiment on all Arabs/Muslims - in the minds of so many.

 

Oh I'm listening so - please "explain something" to me - as noted in your reply?

 

BDM

[Kulapavana 0]

you may be listening, but can you actually hear?

 

can you see the gross injustices done to the muslims by US and Israel over the years? sure they have often chosen to act in most abominable way in reaction to such treatment, but their cause has merit. I completely condemn their methods, but I understand their pain.

 

when it was convinient, US fully supported people like Saddam, Binladen, and the shah of Iran - who were all butchers. now they have decided to "liberate" Iraq and kill their former(?) CIA agent, Osama... LOL! if you do not see gross duplicity and self interest in such politics, you are blind...

 

as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal...

 

now they are almost ready for their new target: Iran... Lord help us when that war begins...

 

as to the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action... do you understand the law of karma, BDM?

 

and finally: the Torah, Talmud and it's byproducts... they form the backbone of this greedy sectarianism, and justify the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god...

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

 

you may be listening, but can you actually hear?

 

can you see the gross injustices done to the muslims by US and Israel over the years? sure they have often chosen to act in most abominable way in reaction to such treatment, but their cause has merit. I completely condemn their methods, but I understand their pain.

 

when it was convinient, US fully supported people like Saddam, Binladen, and the shah of Iran - who were all butchers. now they have decided to "liberate" Iraq and kill their former(?) CIA agent, Osama... LOL! if you do not see gross duplicity and self interest in such politics, you are blind...

 

as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal...

 

now they are almost ready for their new target: Iran... Lord help us when that war begins...

 

as to the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action... do you understand the law of karma, BDM?

 

and finally: the Torah, Talmud and it's byproducts... they form the backbone of this greedy sectarianism, and justify the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god...

Now we readers know exactly where you're at don't we!

 

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can you see the gross injustices done to the muslims by US and Israel over the years?

 

Reply:

 

You mention "the muslims" - without any mention of any national origins [or places of abuse] for these "muslims" - there are muslims everywhere in the world aren't there?

 

Are you saying there is a U.S./Israel sponsored program against "muslims" - your comment is broad and ambiguous with an obvious intent to cast aspersion on the U.S. and Israel [you must think that the U.S. is a puppet of Israel too don't you].

 

You should be more specific to the nature of these "gross injustices" and where?

 

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sure they have often chosen to act in most abominable way in reaction to such treatment, but their cause has merit.

 

Reply:

 

As noted you haven't presented any clear explication of these so-called systematic - "gross injustices" against "muslims" - thus to say "their cause has merit" - is quite curious isn't it.

 

With respect to the terrorists having - "chosen to act in most abominable way" - there are no excuses and you of all people should know that.

 

To say that "their cause has merit" is like saying that they have a good excuse to wreak terror on innocent people.

 

The treatment that you mention - even if it were true - is NO EXCUSE for killing innocent citizens - the leaders of these terrorists are not elected or otherwise chosen by those they kill for - they are self-appointed judge jury and executioner - what could be worse than such self-appointed demons?

 

Where one has some cause for complaint regarding injustices the last thing that one needs to do is act like a demon - who cannot understand that?

 

What if there was an occasion that there could be public sentiment in favor of those suffering but - then along comes someone [to fight on their so-called behalf] who acts like a demon and thus spoils it?

 

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I completely condemn their methods, but I understand their pain.

 

Reply:

 

As noted your seeming condemnation is ambiguous in light of your other comments.

 

How is it 'you' understand 'their' pain?

 

Again more information here could be of help in seeing where you really stand. We have all seen pain in life but - we haven't all suffered injustices [i'm no stranger to either] - have you? If so - in what manner do you "understand their pain"?

 

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when it was convinient, US fully supported people like Saddam, Binladen, and the shah of Iran - who were all butchers.

 

Reply:

 

If I read between the lines it sounds like you still support these "butchers"?

 

Why did the U.S. associate with these "butchers"?

 

Well as you know there was that little issue with the U.S.S.R. - of course the U.S. at times has to deal with certain leaders and regimes which I'm sure they wish they didn't have to.

 

The fact is - I'm sure that when dealing with these dacoit butchers there was the hope that these would turn away from their standard program of violence etc., and adopt a moderate approach to political strifes.

 

With respect to that binladen creep - it would seem that his association with the U.S. was one where they were fighting the U.S.S.R. in Afganistan with the west - then later - after they were successfull and the threat of the U.S.S.R. was gone - these allied dacoit fighters - turned on the west.

 

Since at least then - there has been this attitude that the west is the great satan and that anyone who lives in the west is a target in their so-called war to change things - where they are intent on creating a false version of an Islamic state - with sharia law - a harsh system of laws which were created long after the inception of their faith and this law was changed again and again - to suit those who've enforced it.

 

So in any case the U.S. and Israel are NOT responsible for this program - the factual terror driven program of these "butcher" types!

 

Yes to some measure some westerners [evangelical movements] have been moving as an ideological counter-point to these "butcher" types - but again the U.S. and Israel are NOT responsible for that either.

 

Who is responsible for the attitudes these "butchers" have? Wouldn't it be they themselves?

 

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now they have decided to "liberate" Iraq and kill their former(?) CIA agent, Osama... LOL!

 

Reply:

 

Well Iraq has no more dictator and that is very good for the Iraqi people and if the "butchers" would stop their insurgency program of murders and terror - then the people would of course stabilize their nation and build a better future than they had.

 

As for their wanting to kill their "former agentOsama" [wow you use its first name and it's capitalized too - when you didn't capitalize the word "muslim"?] well what do you think should happen? What reasons do you think they use to justify wanting to "kill...Osama"?

 

Anyone with any understanding can see why he should be found and -

 

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if you do not see gross duplicity and self interest in such politics, you are blind...

 

Reply:

 

I see that in these self-appointed judge jury and executioner types there is a great deal of ugly "gross duplicity and self interest" and - I don't think you can see that.

 

You somehow see these types as - freedom fighters and maybe even - hero types - isn't that correct?

 

For this they brainwash people - who have some "pain" and sense of "injustices" to go and commit violences like homocide bombings - they thus cheat that person out of any real resolution for their pain and injusitice and they make him go to hell for being remorselessly violent - for their ulterior motives.

 

They also thus place a hell-like distance between any others with similar pain and injustices and - real justice/healing.

 

If there is duplicity and self interest within our western leaders - it is motived by individual greed NOT some collective program - where they as a group act violently and mercilessly and worse yet - remorselessly ruthless in the intent to kill - to force their bogus changes.

 

Prabhupada says:

 

For a ksatriya, or administrator, there are so many abominable things; a ksatriya has to be violent to kill his enemies, and sometimes a ksatriya has to tell lies for the sake of diplomacy. Such violence and duplicity accompany political affairs, but a ksatriya is not supposed to give up his occupational duty and try to perform the duties of a brahmana. [bG 18.47, purport]

 

That would be our westrn leaders - not these self-appointed judge jury and executioner types.

 

As for being blind - I must be because I don't see the supposed logic or rational basis for any of your points - within your posting.

 

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as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal...

 

Reply:

 

Well isn't that nice of you! What a load of bunk!

 

In mentioning "the gross injustices done to the muslims by US and Israel over the years" - you mentioned not one nation where these "muslims" are - thus you imply to the reader that it must be nearly a global effort of some sort against "muslims".

 

Now here you've mentioned - "the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them" - that is a very pernicious point to make to convince one that you don't have some biased opinion against Jews! [but wait your later comments get closer to your mindset!]

 

The fact is the Jews are not stirring the strife in the M.E. - it is the terrorists who hate Jews [and the West] - they say they don't - that it's the so-called zionist effort to re-create a homeland [and take over the world] for the jewish people that they hate - but like you in your comments here - I see that it's really a sick hate of Jews which is motivating them.

 

I wonder how much credence these self-appointed judge jury and executioner types - who very obviously hate jews - just how much credence do they place in the Islamic myth of Al-Dajal [the so-called jewish anti-christ type that they say shall purportedly arrise one day?] - just like the evangelicals who believe that the so-called future anti-christ is to be a jew! What wonderfully bent theology that is!

 

So the comment that the Jews are in the M.E. looking for a free meal is quite obviously a motivated comment - taken for what it is - bogus.

 

After being hated and - hunted for 2000+ years - for [among the made-up crimes] so-called killing Jesus - some jewish people became motivated to restore a homeland - so that is what happened.

 

Now it's there. Yes some mistakes were made in the formation of the State but - there was NO mass slaughter to make it happen - but - there is a wholesale slaughter being directed at Israelis - how can that be justified?

 

The mistakes made do not warrent the end of the state of Israel - as is desired by those that you're defending here.

 

You speak of Karma - well it was karma and God that brought them home to the land of their ancestors and for this - they do not have any program to exterminate the Palestinians but - more and more the Palestinians are being brainwashed by the self-appointed judge jury and executioner types - brainwashed that there cannot be any two state solution and that Jerusalem [and the Dome] must stay as it is - when they know that - by reason - it cannot.

 

They are being brainwashed into a program to exterminate the Israelis [and later all jews?] and to punish the west for supporting Israel!

 

What if by ill geo-political arrangements - as a result of a global war brought on by this Islamic terror program - what if there was some shift in things and say Saudi Arabia fell into red communist hands and they were to remove the holy place where Muslims revere God - Mecca - then say many generations go by and - and these communists [or others] build something else on that site and while they continue to spread hate and strife on those who were connected to Mecca - so - would Muslims just give up Mecca and the lands around it? No - of course they wouldn't!

 

So things on earth change - why cannot these self-appointed judge jury and executioner types try to see these things - in light of their own faith and needs - they should understand the Hebrew desire to rebuild their homeland - their City of God and Temple.

 

To say that they have no right to this - is wrong.

 

To fight against them in this endeavor - is un-Islamic!

 

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now they are almost ready for their new target: Iran... Lord help us when that war begins...

 

Reply:

 

Oh yeah you seem to think that Iran is run by some moderate peace loving all about inclusion regime don't you. Now - who - is really blind here?

 

You'll see - Iran under it's present leadership - is much like a puss-bag waiting to burst open! It needs to be lanced...if they won't take some medicine to cure their well known 'diseases'!

 

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as to the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action... do you understand the law of karma, BDM?

 

Reply:

 

Yes Kulapavana I do understand the law of Karma - it's you that seems to see karma through biased eyes.

 

You say that "islamic terrorism...is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action" - I say that it is not a reaction to anything - it's a willing service to the spirit of the age of kali.

 

They also have a program to conquer 'the world' and convert everyone [with force if needed] into their false version of Islam. Yes - that would include you too.

 

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and finally: the Torah, Talmud and it's byproducts... they form the backbone of this greedy sectarianism, and justify the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god

 

 

Reply:

 

There it is - a hate for the scriptures themselves - you find everything jewish to be of a comtemptable nature and yet - you get upset if I say you sound like an anti-semite? Yah ok!

 

I think this minset may one day lead you to find something wrong with your own scriptures - then you'll leave your present faith and - where would you then repose your faith and sense of community? I think I know where you might be drawn?

 

I know we've had the let's compare scriptures discussions already - do we have to do that again?

 

You say "in the name of our own god" - the "our" part seems out of context?

 

As for "the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god" - what about in India - wasn't there an Islamic head tax on the Hindus - during the time of Muslim rule?

 

Why don't you come clean here.

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

So one day I hope to celebrate the Independence Day of a free state of Palestine - with God's mercy the people of Palestine shall turn away from their self-appointed freedom fighters - who are not heros to their cause.

 

Today happens to be the Independence Day in Israel - so to practice my growing skills with .gif building I made this neat .gif animation for them - it isn't posted to offend anyone. Maybe within a couple of years I'll be making one for the new State of Palestine!

 

I did this one rather quickly [several hours only] so it's not as good as it could be as well as the fact that imageshack has a generous 1024 KB upload limit - which is alot for .jpg files but not for .gif files - but it still looks neat anyway?

 

[Kulapavana 0]

 

To say that "their cause has merit" is like saying that they have a good excuse to wreak terror on innocent people.

 

 

 

and who killed more innocent people: Bush or Binladen? Who killed more innocent people: the state of Israel or Palestinians? why do you find excuses for killing over 100,000 innocent people in Iraq? how about the Israeli "targeted killing" policy where they kill ANYBODY they want, along with scores of innocent bystanders? you DO excuse that terror, dont you?

 

the rest of your post is based on the same logic: "If someone steals a cow from Kali, that is bad. But if Kali steals a cow from someone, that is good".