What a coincidence !!!!

[Guest guest]

 

But Lord Krishna even discouraged His father Nanda Maharaja from worshiping the demigod Indra, because He wanted to establish the fact that people need not worship any demigod. They need only worship the Supreme Lord, because their ultimate goal is to return to His abode.

 

Hari OM

 

"people" is too much a generalized term, Because the same Krishna has advised Arjuna to worship Shiva and Durga.

If People "need only worship the Supreme Lord" then what was the "need" to create Vedas with such elaborate procedures and rituals to worship demigods?

 

Let the confusing concept of polytheism become dovetailed into the worship of the Supreme Lord

 

There is no confusing concept of polytheism.

 

The same God had manifested Himself into multiple name-form types, each one specifically in-charge for some thing.

 

So if "people" wanted some (materialistic) benefits -- like wealth, fame, power, progeny, beauty.... they are to worship the particular demigod by using the specified method and work towards realising that benefit

 

But if "people" wanted spiritual benefit(s?) like liberation or eternity, then they have to worship only the Lord

 

The confusion arises only when people worship the Lord for material benefits or the demi-gods for spiritual benefits , which only was discouraged by the Lord and the acharyas.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Many posts in this forum seems to suggest that ISKCON is becoming Abrahamized in that become intolerant of other views , so much so that they even refuse to acknowledge other incarnations of Vishnu.

 

If this is true, i think this is a great disservice to Srila Prabhupadha and Chaitnya Mahaprabhu, who specifically teached love and instilled the knowledge that all material benefits is transient and temporary, so transcend that and seek spiritual benefits.

 

Instead of spreading that message of love even to the most ignorant and sinful people, looks like ISKCON is becoming an organization to spread hatred of demigods.

 

All demigods are nothing but manifestations of that supreme Lord and work under his specific authorization (the santhana dharma) to provide benefits/punishments to individual Jivas.

 

Like how the president of usa does not personally handle all the visa stampings by himself, the Lord has given necessary authority, power to various demigods to execute some functions and most demigods are excellent Bhaktas of the Lord.

 

Yes, if you had stopped the carving for all materialistic needs (note the IF there) and you have nothing but the desire to serve the Lord, the demigods becomes insigificiant to you (not your enemies or objects of hatred, just insignificant like a lake of water for a person who is standing near a ocean overflowing on all sides)

 

However if you think that by demeaning or opposing the demi-gods Krishna will become pleased with you and shower all material benefits on you, then you are double wrong, and have all the danger of becoming just another Abraham.

 

Let Krishna Guide ISKCON in the right direction, please..

[Guest guest]

 

Hari OM

 

Many posts in this forum seems to suggest that ISKCON is becoming Abrahamized in that become intolerant of other views , so much so that they even refuse to acknowledge other incarnations of Vishnu.

 

If this is true, i think this is a great disservice to Srila Prabhupadha and Chaitnya Mahaprabhu, who specifically teached love and instilled the knowledge that all material benefits is transient and temporary, so transcend that and seek spiritual benefits.

 

Instead of spreading that message of love even to the most ignorant and sinful people, looks like ISKCON is becoming an organization to spread hatred of demigods.

 

All demigods are nothing but manifestations of that supreme Lord and work under his specific authorization (the santhana dharma) to provide benefits/punishments to individual Jivas.

 

Like how the president of usa does not personally handle all the visa stampings by himself, the Lord has given necessary authority, power to various demigods to execute some functions and most demigods are excellent Bhaktas of the Lord.

 

Yes, if you had stopped the carving for all materialistic needs (note the IF there) and you have nothing but the desire to serve the Lord, the demigods becomes insigificiant to you (not your enemies or objects of hatred, just insignificant like a lake of water for a person who is standing near a ocean overflowing on all sides)

 

However if you think that by demeaning or opposing the demi-gods Krishna will become pleased with you and shower all material benefits on you, then you are double wrong, and have all the danger of becoming just another Abraham.

 

Let Krishna Guide ISKCON in the right direction, please..

 

Peace, Hari OM, we have to learn to become forgiving - become actually humble!

 

trinad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna,

amanena manadena kirtaniya sada harih

 

"More tolerant than a tree, offer all your respects,

devoid of false prestige, honor all that exists,

as humble as the grass or the straw on the ground,

in such a state of mind remain and please the Lord."

 

More or less it is proven that they want to change ISKCON into an Abrahamized run movement because the 99% Jewish leaders of ISKCON feel and are educated that way from childhood that they are the chosen people and have suffered the past 2000 years - were always on the run. And now they want ISKCON, Lord Caitanya's original Sankirtan movement to be their own movement. And why not? Also in the Gaudiya Matha we find quite a lot of Vaishnavas from the Baghdadi Jewish community of Calcutta. The Baghdadis came to India during the British Raj and settled in Bombay and Calcutta. In the eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth centuries the Baghdadi Jewish diaspora stretched from Baghdad to Shanghai and westwards to London.

Of course they never would admit this publicly but by now we should have understood and just very humbly accept it if they wish to do so.

Also they see it that way because when Srila Prabhupada came to New York all his first disciples and the whole Matchless-gifts temple community in the Lower East Side were Jewish - actually Prabhupada preached to NY's Jewish community starting in 1966.

They can surely say, Prabhupada came to us, because we were qualified to understand - Prabhupada didnt go somewhere else when leaving India, ISKCON is ours.

And now imagine when Prabhupada sent these devotees to Europe - the very place their parents, grandparents had to take refuge of being persecuted and suppressed in the past. All these young devotee pioneers coming from NY must have felt terribly sad, shocked, traumatized and at the same time realy, realy angry.

In sum we shouldnt oppose against present ISKCON leadership who took control of ISKCON because Srila Prabhupada came to them in NY, 1965, and who can deny?

 

I am true to Srila Prabhupada and that is what I should cherish, what more can be gained?

Isnt this the highest goal one can achieve in this material universe?

[Guest guest]

 

Peace, Hari OM, we have to learn to become forgiving - become actually humble!

 

I am true to Srila Prabhupada and that is what I should cherish, what more can be gained?

Isnt this the highest goal one can achieve in this material universe?

 

Hari OM

 

i don't know the history of ISKCON, so can't comment on your statements

 

But i think the highest goal one can (or should try) to achieve is moving towards the truth. Because only truth can take us towards the knowledge and which inturn leads to happiness

 

If at any point of time , we try to compromise with the truth (due to some material gains/fears), we will naturally slip away from the truth, i.e., become an Abraham (i think Abraham == Kali, after being defeated by Prakshit Maharaj changed his name), where we may blindly follow something billions of others follow, we may feel very comfortable and secure, but could not get happiness.

 

So for every issue we need to do a complete analysis by our selves and be true to ourseleves, irrespective of the (seeming) losses we may suffer due to that.

 

i think this is the biggest gain that can be achived in this world, which can also be termed as progressing in the spiritual scale.

[Kulapavana]

 

Many posts in this forum seems to suggest that ISKCON is becoming Abrahamized in that become intolerant of other views , so much so that they even refuse to acknowledge other incarnations of Vishnu.

 

 

I see this trend as well. Many of the top Iskcon people will sing the praises of Torah and at the same time disrespect and blaspheme advanced Gaudiya Vaishnavas by calling them sahajiyas. It is a very sad turn of events. The abrahamic religion mentality of "we are the only ones who are right - everyone else is fallen" is pervading this institution top to bottom.

[krishnadasa]

 

Well, the whole episode of lifting Govardhan Hill and the floods of Indra are all becaue Krishna didn't want the residents of Vraja to worship demigods like Indra.

 

Srila Prabhupada says in gita purport:

 

 

Demigod worship is part of the karma kanda path, but in pure devotional service demigod worship is forbidden.

As such, Krishna stepped in when the residents of Vraja were attempting to worship Indra.

 

I cudnt quite get the meaning of Image you hold ? 'Om' under a computer operated by a stone age human..... What do ya trying to convey here?

[krishnadasa]

 

I see this trend as well. Many of the top Iskcon people will sing the praises of Torah and at the same time disrespect and blaspheme advanced Gaudiya Vaishnavas by calling them sahajiyas. It is a very sad turn of events. The abrahamic religion mentality of "we are the only ones who are right - everyone else is fallen" is pervading this institution top to bottom.

 

Devotion to Krishna cant take place perfectly in any other place than Bharathavarsha.. .....that says it all doesnt it?

[theist]

It would seem more than prudent for Iskcon or anyone who wants to take the same position as Srila Prabhupada to take there message from his words and leave aside others. This has nothing to do with Abrahmaic anything. It has to do with polytheism, wherever it is found, vs. theism.

 

Maybe it's because I grew up an atheist with no religion that I find it so easy not to misidentify with any of them. It appears to very difficult for people that grew up as Jews,Christians, Muslims and Hindus to let go as it is so much a part of their ahankara. My false ego is just as strong if not more so, but just differently formed.

 

No one said anything about being against the demigods but things must be seen in their proper place in relationship to Krsna. That is what Krsna consciousness is all about.

 

In conversations there is a place where some disciples were complaining that they could not convince some Indian man to stop worshipping Shiva. Srila Prabhupada correct them by saying there is no need for that man to stop worshipping Shiva. He can keep chanting Om namo Shivaya because Shiva is a devotee of Krsna and will ultimately bestow Krsna-jnana upon the sincere worshipper. The goal is not to stop respecting Shiva but to give him the high respect he deserves as great Vaisnava that he is.

 

One of the ten offenses against the Holy Name is to consider the demigods on the same level as Krsna.

 

It is no real problem ifyou misconstrue my words although it's frustrating to me. If however you misconstrue the statements of Srila Prabhupada you will never see the truth of the matter.

[theist]

 

Devotion to Krishna cant take place perfectly in any other place than Bharathavarsha.. .....that says it all doesnt it?

 

Please explain why you think this way krishnadas.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Devotion to Krishna cant take place perfectly in any other place than Bharathavarsha.. .....that says it all doesnt it?

 

From the superficial view that may appear to be the case. But "na te viduh svarta gatim hi visnu"... Srila Sridhar Maharaja would quote this Bhagavatam verse and say, that, "we must dive deep into reality". The deeper reality here is the power of the Holy Name of Krsna. We receive this name from Sri Guru, the proper channel and if we chant and take the name of Krsna it will have a most purifying effect. The time, place and circumstance become irrelevant in light of the power of the Name of Krsna. It is even said that the Name of Krsna is even more merciful than Krsna. Of course some situations are more favorable for Krsna Consciouness than others. Many practitioners actually do better in India than in the West. But our faith must be in the absolute nature of the Holy Name. If we loose sight of this, it won't matter where we are, we will be in a compromised postion.

[Ayodhya]

 

In conversations there is a place where some disciples were complaining that they could not convince some Indian man to stop worshipping Shiva. Srila Prabhupada correct them by saying there is no need for that man to stop worshipping Shiva. He can keep chanting Om namo Shivaya because Shiva is a devotee of Krsna and will ultimately bestow Krsna-jnana upon the sincere worshipper. The goal is not to stop respecting Shiva but to give him the high respect he deserves as great Vaisnava that he is.

 

One of the ten offenses against the Holy Name is to consider the demigods on the same level as Krsna.

 

It would seem that this would be an offense to those who do not consider Krishna to be the highest. But what difference does it make?

 

You reconcile this by saying that Shiva is a devotee of Krishna? I am guessing that you would say the same about the other Gods (I refuse to use the word Demi-) to reconcile it with your beliefs. Wouldn't a believer in Shakti say the same? That Krishna and all the other Gods bow to Her?

 

Have you read the Puranas? In the Vishnu Purana, all the other Gods bow to him. In the Shiva Purana, all the other Gods bow to Shiva. In the Shakti Purana, all the other Gods bow to Shakti. Hopefully, you get the picture.

[theist]

 

It would seem that this would be an offense to those who do not consider Krishna to be the highest. But what difference does it make?

 

Well there is no need for anyone to go out of their way to offend anyone but there is also no reason to not state one's conviction at the proper time place and circumstance.

 

I worship Lord Jesus Christ. But not as separate from Krsna or as the Supreme God alone. Jesus said "The Father is greater than I". I worship Jesus as the pure servant of Krsna. This undoubtly offends many manstream Christians but so be it.

 

 

You reconcile this by saying that Shiva is a devotee of Krishna? I am guessing that you would say the same about the other Gods (I refuse to use the word Demi-) to reconcile it with your beliefs. Wouldn't a believer in Shakti say the same? That Krishna and all the other Gods bow to Her?

 

Srila Prabhupada said it and I accept it and repeat it. Yes all the demigods all servants of the Supreme Lord just as all the ministers in the kings court are servants of the one king.

 

 

Have you read the Puranas? In the Vishnu Purana, all the other Gods bow to him. In the Shiva Purana, all the other Gods bow to Shiva. In the Shakti Purana, all the other Gods bow to Shakti. Hopefully, you get the picture.

 

I am not interested in any Purana except the Bhagavat Purana. And within the Bhagavat Purana I am only interested in the transcendental side and not the discussions of the cosmic postioning nor do I accept all that is written there to be actually historical events. That puts me at odds with most everyone here I know. I do accept the pure divinity of Krsna-lila.

 

The picture I get is that the Puranas are not consistent in their definition of the Supreme Absolute Truth, so it's pick your Purana and take your chances time.

[Ayodhya]

 

The picture I get is that the Puranas are not consistent in their definition of the Supreme Absolute Truth, so it's pick your Purana and take your chances time.

Picking and choosing is almost as silly as deeming portions of the Bible as Apocryphal. There are hundreds of sages in India's past and present who do not think of Krishna as the ultimate. What happened to the Saptarishi's who may have worshipped Indra? Did they not achieve Enlightenment simply for this reason?

[Guruvani]

 

 

The picture I get is that the Puranas are not consistent in their definition of the Supreme Absolute Truth, so it's pick your Purana and take your chances time.

 

The Vedic canon has much, much information for advancement in Dharma, Artha Kama and Moksha.

So, there is much there to confuse those who do not understand the final purpose of the Vedic canon.

 

Even if you say that so many gods are glorified as the greatest in different Vedic texts, they do not say that any and all of these demigods can award immortality and perfect knowledge.

 

You can worship many different demigds for many different reasons.

You can ever worship certain demigods to bring harm upon your enemy.

But, what does all that nonsense have to do with eternal salvation?

 

Krishna is known as Veda-guhya - he is the secret of the Vedas.

 

Specifically, the Bhagavat Purana is known as the amala-purana in that it is spotless in it's quality of dealing only with the topmost perfection and the devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[theist]

 

Picking and choosing is almost as silly as deeming portions of the Bible as Apocryphal. There are hundreds of sages in India's past and present who do not think of Krishna as the ultimate. What happened to the Saptarishi's who may have worshipped Indra? Did they not achieve Enlightenment simply for this reason?

 

What happened to them? I have no idea nor do I care. What you and I call enlightenment will be different. For you apparently it is Brahman realization for me enlightenment means Krsna Consciousness and is perfected in becoming a pure lover of Krsna.

 

Vaisnava's show no interest in the Advaitan's explanation of enlightenment and so I do not either.

[bija]

 

What happened to them? I have no idea....quote by Theist

 

Theist, here is a story about the saptha(seven) rishis from Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya. Gaura! Gaura! Gaura!

 

Sorry about the typos...for some reason.

 

Chapter Nine

Description of Çré Madhyadvépa and Naimiña

 

All glories to Lord Gauracandra and Prabhu Nityänanda! All glories to Gadädhara and the devotees headed by Srivasa! All glories to Navadvipa, the topmost abode of devotees!

When night had ended, Sri Nityänanda, intoxicated with songs of Gaura, went off with the devotees. They were absorbed in love of God and distributed that supreme bliss along the way. Coming to Madhyadwipa, Nityänanda smiled and said, “This is Mäjidä-gräma. The seven rsis stayed here a long time and engaged in worshiping Gauränga.

“In Satya-yuga, the rsis began singing the glories of Gaura in their father's presence. Completely absorbed, they begged for the eternal treasure of gaura-prema. Lord Brahmä was pleased with his seven sons and told them, `Go to Navadwipa and sing the glories of Gaura, then you will easily attain prema. Whoever gets the mercy of the dhäma, gets the association of devotees. Then, by worshiping in the association of devotees, you will become absorbed in krsna-prema. That is the supreme activity. Whoever gets attraction for Navadwipa will receive the benediction of living in Vraja. To live in the spiritual dhäma and recite the name of Gaura is the only aspiration of the devotees.'

“The seven rsis took their father's instructions to heart and came to this place. When they arrived, they engaged in dancing and chanting the name of Hari. They begged for gaura-prema while singing the Lord's glories in a loud voice, `O Gaurahari, be merciful and reveal Yourself to us just once! Being offenders, we have followed many paths, but now we are taking to the path of devotional service.'

“The rsis underwent austerities and became firmly situated in devotional service by worshiping Gauränga. They completely gave up eating and sleeping and simply recited the name of Gaura. Around noon (madhyähna), the all-merciful Lord Gauräìga appeared before the rsis.

“The Lord was as brilliant as a hundred suns, and He attracted the minds of the yogis. He appeared with the Panca-tattva. How extraordinary was that form! His form had a beautiful golden hue. Around His neck was a garland of flowers, and His glittering ornaments illuminated all directions. His glance was beautiful, His hair was long and curled, and a dot of sandalwood decorated His forehead. He wore threefolded cloth, a shining thread, and His neck was decorated with a beautiful jasmine garland. Seeing this form, the rsis were enchanted and they humbly petitioned, `We surrender to Your lotus feet. Please give us devotion.'

“Hearing the rsis' prayer, Gaurahari replied, `Listen rsis. Give up all desires, the chains of jñäna and karma, and just discuss topics of Krsna. Within a short time I will unfold My lila in Navadwipa. Then you will see My pastimes of näma-saìnkirtana. But now, keep this subject a secret. Worship Krsna at Kumärahatta at the ghäta made by you.'

“When Lord Gauränga disappeared, the seven rsis went to Kumärahatta. At this place now you see seven hillocks. These seven hills are arranged in the same pattern as the seven rsis in the sky (the constellation). By living here one will receive Gaurahari without having to undergo a strict process of rules and regulations.

“To the south of this see one stream, the very pure Gomati River. Beside it is Naimisäranya. At the beginning of Kali-yuga, the rsis headed by Saunaka heard about Gauränga from the mouth of Suta. Whoever reads the Puränas here during the month of Kärtika becomes free from all distress, becomes absorbed in the pastimes of Gauränìga, and easily attains Vrindävana. Giving up his bull carrier, Siva once mounted Sri Haësa-vähana, Brahmä's swan, and came here to hear the recitation of the Puränas. Along with his followers, he sang the glories of Gaura. While singing and dancing, the followers surrounded Siva, and shouting the name of Gaurahari, threw heaps of flowers all around.”

On hearing the words of Nityänanda, Jiva became spiritually excited and began rolling on the ground in ecstasy as he tasted the influence of the dhäma. The devotees spent the day there in the association of Nityänanda and the next day they went to take darsana of Puskara.

Bhaktivinoda, within whom the ever worshipable Jähnavä and Nitäi have appeared, sings the glories of Nadia and the sweetness of the devotees while tasting transcendental flavors.

[theist]

Thanks bija. Ayodhya, bija has nicely presented an answer to your question on these seven rishi's.

[Ayodhya]

Thanks bija!

 

Could you explain what Krishna Consciousness means as opposed to Enlightenment?

[bija]

 

Thanks bija!

 

Could you explain what Krishna Consciousness means as opposed to Enlightenment? quote by Ayodhya

Hi Ayodhya....lol:)....I don't know the standard definition of enlightenment..... Down through history I think many peoples, cultures, and sages have all explained what enlightenment of a human is in many ways...

 

Personally for me I think enlightenment means something like, leaving ignorance for light. Gaining self-understanding, seeing the nature of oneself and the world....things like this....maybe it is a subjective thing....I can't speak for anyone else...

 

Krsna consciousness for me basically means to have Krsna (God) in my consciousness all the time. To think of God constantly. The cause of all causes, whom we are parts and parcels of...

 

Hope this helps...see ya.

[Ayodhya]

 

Krsna consciousness for me basically means to have Krsna (God) in my consciousness all the time. To think of God constantly. The cause of all causes, whom we are parts and parcels of...

 

Interesting.

Thanks for your summary. Hopefully, others will report to us what Krishna Consciousness means to them.

[bija]

So to answer your question more directly Krsna consciousness has also been my personal enlightenment experience. Surely an ongoing process. Not just some one time occurence but an evolving, growing, developing relationship with God.

 

Below is the first chapter of Srila Bhaktivinoda's Navadawipa Dhama Mahatmya. This particular chapter is dear to my GuruMaharaja and he has passed it on to his disciples. Now it has become dear to me. Thanks for letting me share Ayodhya. I wish you much blessings in your own spiritual journey.

 

 

Chapter One

General Glorification

 

All glories to Lord Chaitanya, the moon of Navadvipa and son of mother Shaci! All glories to Nityaananda Raaya, the avadhuta! All glories to Shri Advaita Prabhu, the Supreme Lord! All glories to Shri Gadaadhara and Shrivaasa Pandita! All glories to Navadvipa-dhaama, the essence of all dhaamas! And all glories to the residents of Navadvipa, the associates of Gauraanga!

Offering obeisances to the feet of all the devotees, I will now briefly describe Shri Navadvipa-dhaama. Even the demigods headed by Lord Brahmaa do not know the unlimited glories of Navadvipa-mandala, so who can possibly describe that dhaama fully? Since the thousand-mouthed Shesha cannot describe it completely, how can I, an insignificant living entity, do so? Even Lord Shiva can find no end to the unlimited glories of Navadvipa-dhaama. Nevertheless, the desire of Shri Chaitanya is powerful, and according to His wish the devotees have given me an order. Therefore, by the mercy of the devotees, I hereby describe the glories of Nadia.

There is one other topic I would like to mention. As it is a confidential matter, I hesitate to disclose it. But, on the other hand, I cannot resist telling it, for Lord Chaitanya instructed His devotees to publicize the glories of His pastimes and abode after His disappearance. Though Shri Chaitanya is the most concealed of all avataaras, I know well that He is all in all. But because His confidential activities are described ambiguously in scripture, the nondevotees are unable to realize them. For a long time Maayaadevi kept hidden the confidential scriptures that describe Lord Chaitanya's pastimes. These topics are described in both the unmanifest scriptures, which were scattered here and there, as well as in the manifest scriptures. Maayaa kept all these scriptures hidden from view by covering the eyes of the scholars.

After Gauraanga completed His pastimes on earth, however, His obedient servant Maayaadevi, understood the desire of the Lord. She lifted the veil of illusion from the eyes of the living entities and revealed the true nature of Shri Gauraanga within this material universe. Thus the hidden meaning in the scriptures became easily revealed, and the arguments inhibiting understanding Lord Chaitanya were dispelled. It was the all-merciful Nityaananda Prabhu who revealed the truth about Gauraanga in the hearts of the living entities. On His command, Maayaa pulled away the covering so that the pure devotee scholars could receive this precious treasure of the scriptures.

If one remains doubtful in spite of the scriptural evidence, he is most unfortunate and useless. Why should he continue living? When Nityaananda Prabhu distributed the mercy, the fortunate living entities accepted and reached the perfection of happiness.

Everyone should know the symptoms of the unfortunate living entity as well; it is he who is overconfident of the power of his own intelligence. Such a person rejects the mercy of the Lord, and by the force of false logic he falls repeatedly into the pit of illusion.

“Come, spirit souls of Kali-yuga! Give up this hypocrisy and just accept the pure ecstatic love of Shri Gauraanga!” In this way Nityaananda Prabhu would call out again and again. But still the unfortunate living entities did not accept.

Now let us consider carefully why these people do not accept such wonderful love of God. In pursuit of happiness, living entities in the material world follow various processes, such as logic or mystic yoga. And, in quest of happiness, some give up the material world and go to the forest, while kings constantly wage wars amongst themselves. Desiring happiness, others run after women and wealth, while others take to arts and sciences. In pursuit of happiness, others reject happiness and learn to tolerate the miseries of life, and still others simply drown themselves in the ocean.

Raising His lotus hands in the air, Lord Nityaananda exclaims, “Come, living entities! Give up the troubles of karma and jshaana. Since you are endeavoring for happiness, I will give you happiness without asking anything in exchange. In this happiness there is no trouble, loss, or pain. Just chant the name of Gauraanga and dance without anxiety. There's nothing equal to the happiness that I am giving. That happiness is pure, eternal ecstasy-beyond all illusion!”

In this way, Nityaananda Prabhu begged everyone to take pure ecstatic love. Still, unfortunate persons, influenced by previous sinful activities, did not even want it. But if such persons chant even once the names of Gauraanga and Nitaai, the effects of unlimited sinful activities are destroyed.

Listen, everyone, to one more confidential topic. The most suitable thing for the souls of Kali-yuga is this treasure of gauraanga-lilaa. Gaurahari is the combined form of Raadhaa and Krishna, who eternally enjoy pastimes in Vrindaavana along with the sakhis. The truth of Raadhaa and Krishna's eternal pastimes and the glories of Vraja-dhaama are known by everyone through the scriptures. And the unlimited glories of Krishna's name and abode are known through the scriptures by people all over the universe. But still, actually obtaining krishna-prema is not at all common. Let us contemplate the reason why.

Herein lies the secret of secrets which the living entities bound by Maayaa cannot discern. One who does not attain love of God after worshiping Krishna birth after birth has certainly committed heaps of offenses. For only by chanting Krishna's name without offenses can one attain incessant krishna-prema.

Shri Chaitanya's incarnation, however, is most uncommon. By His mercy, a serious person, though filled with offenses, can quickly obtain love of God. When someone calls out the names of Nitaai and Chaitanya, krishna-prema comes looking for him. Offenses do not hinder his progress, and he soon sheds tears of ecstasy out of pure love of God. By the mercy of Lord Chaitanya, all the offenses quickly flee away, the heart becomes pure, and love of God fully blossoms. Because people in Kali-yuga commit unlimited offenses, which are difficult to check, there can be no means of deliverance other than Gauraanga's name. Therefore, in Kali-yuga, I see no alternative to Shri Gauraanga. This is also the proclamation of the scriptures.

As Shri Gauracandra appeared in Navadvipa, it is therefore the crest jewel of all holy places. Offenders are the object of punishment at other holy pilgrimage places, but in Navadvipa-dhaama they are purified. The example is the two brothers Jagaai and Maadhaai, who committed great offenses yet still received Nitaai and Gaura. What to speak of other places, at Vrindaavana the offenders are punished. But a person who has committed hundreds of offenses can easily receive the mercy of Nityaananda Prabhu and overcome those offenses in Navadvipa-dhaama. For this reason, sages endlessly praise Navadvipa of Gaura-mandala.

He who lives in Navadvipa-dhaama is very fortunate, for he achieves attraction for Krishna. He who happens to go there becomes freed from all offenses. What one attains by travelling to all the holy places is attained just by remembering Navadvipa. In this way the scriptures sing. He who sees Navadvipa-dhaama gets ecstatic love of Krishna birth after birth. Even one who goes to Navadvipa desiring to gain material comforts through pious activities will not take another birth. The shaastras say that one who walks around Navadvipa attains the fruit of millions of ashvamedha-yajshas at every step. And one who lives in Navadvipa and chants mantras obtains the sound of Chaitanya as his mantra and easily gets free from maayaa. What yogis obtain after ten years at other tirthas is obtained in three nights at Navadvipa.

That liberation attained by Brahman realization at other holy places is obtained simply by bathing in the Ganges at Navadvipa. Thus, all types of liberation-saalokya, saarupya, saarshti, saamipya, and nirvaana-can be obtained in Navadvipa without speculative practice. Falling at the feet of the pure devotees in Navadvipa, Bhukti and Mukti (personified material enjoyment and liberation) remain there as obedient servants. Not caring for their blessings, the devotees kick them away, but still they do not leave the devotee's feet. The fruits obtained by staying one hundred years at the seven holy cities can be attained by staying one night in Navadvipa-dhaama.

In conclusion, Navadvipa is the topmost tirtha. Taking shelter of it, the living entities can cross over Kali-yuga. At this place, taaraka, the name of Raama, which gives liberation, and paaraka1, the name of Krishna, which gives prema, always serve the residents of the dhaama.

Aspiring for the shade of the lotus feet of Nitaai and Jaahnavaa, Bhaktivinoda thus sings in bliss.

[bija]

And one more thought on this.....the ongoing enlightenment is a compliment of Krsna consciousness. As one's relationship with God (Krsna consciousness) grows, all things fall into place....even enlightenment.

 

From my experience...not the other way around...first enlightenment then Krsna...no....first Krsna then enlightenment. All things are compliments to Krsna consciousness.

[Ayodhya]

 

From my experience...not the other way around...first enlightenment then Krsna...no....first Krsna then enlightenment.

Seems like both of us have some soul searching of our own to do...

 

 

All things are compliments to Krsna consciousness.

As Krishna Consciousness is compliment to all things. I would agree either way.

 

 

Thank you for the scripture you posted. Sri Chaitanya is somewhat of a new concept for me.

[bija]

 

seems like both of us have some soul searching of our own to do quote by Ayodhya

 

Nice to chat with a fellow traveller. Till last breath, Ayodhya.

 

 

As Krsna consciousness is a compliment to all things. I would agree either way. quote by Ayodhya.

 

Nice touch.

 

One thing I feel is that this journey of discovery is the real joy of life.

Most satisfying and fulfilling. A journey to the centre which embraces and nurtures all things. Therefore it becomes possible to walk peacefully alongside fellow beings, searchers, and travellers.

 

I realize Sri Caitanya is new to you, from another thread. My interests in yoga and spirituality are reasonably open, but by Guru's mercy Sri Gauranga is my centre and greatest source of bliss and joy. Thanks for being open to something I love and treasure, Ayodhya.

[bija]

Ayodhya, the Krsna consciousness movement inaugerated by Sri Caitanya is basically a 'Bhakti cult'. Sri Caitanya would avoid association with impersonalists as he dived deeper and deeper into esoteric relationship with a personal God (Krsna). Historically he did enter some discussions with impersonalists and convinced them of the Krsna conception.

 

The spiritual truths of Bhakti are elaborately discussed by the followers of Sri Caitanya. These writings are very esoteric and advanced in the nature of relationship. A step by step internal journey culminating in love of God is discussed within these books. Writings so deeply profound, that followers of the Bhakti cult have experienced great ecstacies and bliss.

 

So in a developed stage of Krsna consciousness spirituality no longer remains a belief sytem as such. What I mean is...a belief system often needs defending in philosophical debate. But the internal realizations of advancing Krsna consciousness become a fully tangible spiritual experience.

To be tasted internally in an unending flow of joy. This is what Sri Caitanya came to give. This what he experienced. Many historically have perceived him as a great mystic. His followers perceive him as an incarnation of Radha and Krsna combined.

 

I understand your viewpoint from reading some of your posts. That is fine with me...and I also perceive this is reciprocal...this is why I am happy to share.

 

If oneday you would like to understand more of Sri Caitanya (Gauranga) send me a private message. I can give you access to a downloadable teaching base with many many books of the Acarya's. Many more books than you will find scanning the web.

 

Anyhow...many devotees are into philosophical debate...I am not so qualified and of this mood. Many acarya's and devotees are. I guess we are all different. But as small amounts of joy increase in my heart amid the turbulence of material life, ofcourse I would wish others to experience similar things. So if

any good soul has an open heart I will share with them.