Afraid of hell

[Guest guest]

I strongly believe in the Gods of our Hindu culture and I worship them with all my heart.

But i came to know that the Quran makes it clear that men like me are sure to be tortured in the eternal hell.

Bible also says in its commandments that we should not worship God with the form of any living creature in the earth or in the water or in the air.

Now I am afraid if I would go to hell.

Will lord Krishna protect me from the Hell for non-believers of Christianity or Islam?

Will the God in the Bible and Quran punish me for worshipping the Idols of Krishna?

[Guest guest]

Love god. full stop! there can be no notion of hell when u love god!

[Guest guest]

Bible also says in its commandments that we should not worship God with the form of any living creature in the earth or in the water or in the air.

--bible is right... but if you are a hindu or vaishnava and you worship the archa murti in the temple, you are worshiping god in his own exclusive form, not an animal or human form.

 

Will the God in the Bible and Quran punish me for worshipping the Idols of Krishna?

--if you worship krsna, you are a perfect follower of bible and quran... krsna is the supreme personality of godhead, the source of all religions

[theist 1]

 

Bible also says in its commandments that we should not worship God with the form of any living creature in the earth or in the water or in the air.

--bible is right... but if you are a hindu or vaishnava and you worship the archa murti in the temple, you are worshiping god in his own exclusive form, not an animal or human form.

 

 

Exactly. One should also consider the circumstances of idol worship that was prevelant in the area at the time. Afterall these very people evidently got impatient waiting for Moses to come back so they made a golden calf and started worshipping that.

 

 

Love god. full stop! there can be no notion of hell when u love god!

 

 

 

 

I forget where but there is psalm of David in the Old Testament where he is addressing the Lord. And he sings to the effect of "O' Lord, and if I reside in hell, what is that to me for Thou art with me."

 

This is perfect understanding. God is everywhere even in hell therefore hell loses it's fury. For the Krsna consciousness soul there is no hell even in so-called hell, there is only Krsna.

 

Krsna consciousness gives full meaning to the immortal nature of the self by providing invulnerability from such nightmares as hell.

[theist 1]

Citrketu was cursed by Mother Parvati. This is part of his response.

 

 

 

 

TRANSLATION SB 6.17.20

 

This material world resembles the waves of a constantly flowing river. Therefore, what is a curse and what is a favor? What are the heavenly planets, and what are the hellish planets? What is actually happiness, and what is actually distress? Because the waves flow constantly, none of them has an eternal effect.

 

 

"...none of them has an eternal effect."

 

No one sits in hell eternally. IMO these people that proclaim this are blaspheming God and projecting their hatred of other living beings. But then again that is just my opinion.

[Guest guest]

That makes hell into some place that one doesnt want to go. But the same theology clearly states that this is where Lord Jesus went, a great desire of His granted by He Who sent Him, to retrieve those who his Father never abandons.

 

A vaisnava does not care for heaven nor hell, as long as

(s)he can please Krsna, there is no problem anywhere.

 

As far as the real meaning of hell, this is not a dsstination, it is consciousness. Rememberance of swarup (relationship in loving service to the supreme Lord) is perfection, forgetfulness is hell. The mayavada does not go to hell, either, because there is supposedly suffering there. A non-entity has no consciousness to suffer, so their realm is non-existance.

 

Hell is suffering karmic reaction, and can be experianced in all three realms, the heavenly, marginal, and hellish planetary systems. Often, we see the vedic versions of hell, the tala regions, rasatala, patala, etc, as places of great enjoyment and opulence, and the beings there are far more intelligent and powerful than the humans of the middle planetary regions.

 

Durvasa Muni went to real hell by making vaisnava aparadha. He resides in the siddhas, the highest of heavens, yet he was being chased by Sri Sudarshana Chakra, and there was no place to rest, no place to hide, sit, stand, lay down, eat, sleep, etc. Utter turmoil, and he is a great saint. So real hell is forgetting the Supreme Lord, and especially, treating devotees of the Lord as ordinary or less.

 

Now karma, thats a different topic, where heavenly enjoyment is often worse for spiritual well-being than the hellish horrors suffered by starving toothpick people in refugee camps, the real hell right here on earth, where one does not even need to die to experiance, something that we may all experiance before all is said and done.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

<Will the God in the Bible and Quran punish me for worshipping the Idols of Krishna?>

 

God is One!!! Different concepts of worship (With Form or Without Form) of God were evolved during different periods depending on the circumstances. It does not really matter which path is chosen by a devotee as long as the basic element of devotion is present in his/her worship. The culmination of Saguna Bhakti is Nirguna Bhakti. So, do not worry that idol worship will lead you to hell.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

 

The culmination of Saguna Bhakti is Nirguna Bhakti.

 

 

 

Thanks, this is really a new thing for me. Could you define what is meant by "Nirguna Bhakti"? the little i can understand this term is self-contradictory to me.

[Guest guest]

Idol worshippers and devil worshipers will surely go to hell

No doubt

[Guest guest]

Durvasa Muni went to real hell by making vaisnava aparadha. He resides in the siddhas, the highest of heavens, yet he was being chased by Sri Sudarshana Chakra, and there was no place to rest, no place to hide, sit, stand, lay down, eat, sleep, etc. Utter turmoil, and he is a great saint. So real hell is forgetting the Supreme Lord, and especially, treating devotees of the Lord as ordinary or less.

 

----------------------

Mahak, do you really believe that? he was chased by the Chakra and he forgot krisna? not possible, since the weapon and the losrd are one and the same.

surely it is only because he offended Ambarish maharaja.

VdK.

[Guest guest]

"Idol worshippers and devil worshipers will surely go to hell "

 

maybe.. but murti worshippers will go to vaikunta

 

actually they're already there because they are serving directly sri bhagavan or his associates

[Guest guest]

If one treats the devotee of Krsna badly, he has forgotton Krsna, and cannot see krsna in the form of the devotee.

 

A good point here in the Ambarisha story is that such a hell is temporary, and can be rectified, like Durvasa did.

 

haribol, mahak

[Guest guest]

The following words can clear all your doubts:

 

"Not to us, O Lord, not to us, But to Your name give glory Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth. Why should the nations say, “Where, now, is their God?” But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man’s hands. They have mouths, but they cannot speak; They have eyes, but they cannot see; They have ears, but they cannot hear; They have noses, but they cannot smell; They have hands, but they cannot feel; They have feet, but they cannot walk; They cannot make a sound with their throat. Those who make them will become like them, Everyone who trusts in them..." Ps 115:1-8 NASV

[theist 1]

SB 2.3.20: One who has not listened to the messages about the prowess and marvelous acts of the Personality of Godhead and has not sung or chanted loudly the worthy songs about the Lord is to be considered to possess earholes like the holes of snakes and a tongue like the tongue of a frog.

 

SB 2.3.21: The upper portion of the body, though crowned with a silk turban, is only a heavy burden if not bowed down before the Personality of Godhead who can award mukti [freedom]. And the hands, though decorated with glittering bangles, are like those of a dead man if not engaged in the service of the Personality of Godhead Hari.

 

SB 2.3.22: The eyes which do not look at the symbolic representations of the Personality of Godhead Vishnu [His forms, name, quality, etc.] are like those printed on the plumes of the peacock, and the legs which do not move to the holy places [where the Lord is remembered] are considered to be like tree trunks.

 

SB 2.3.23: The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord's pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasi leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

 

SB 2.3.24: Certainly that heart is steel-framed which, in spite of one's chanting the holy name of the Lord with concentration, does not change when ecstasy takes place, tears fill the eyes and the hairs stand on end.

 

--------------

 

We should not neglect the purports.

[Guest guest]

Hinduism was far, far from the first religion. While it dates with the first idol worship (in my opinion -- and which makes it very, very old), it merely ranks as God's first enemy. Not only are His commands replete against it, so is all logic. The following proves unequivocally to anyone who has not been infected with the virus of unseeing eyes and unhearing ears that idol worshippers do become just like their gods. Prove it wrong ... if you can.

 

Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man’s hands. They have mouths, but they cannot speak; They have eyes, but they cannot see; They have ears, but they cannot hear; They have noses, but they cannot smell; They have hands, but they cannot feel; They have feet, but they cannot walk; They cannot make a sound with their throat. Those who make them will become like them, Everyone who trusts in them. Ps 115:4-8 NASV

 

[Guest guest]

the title puts together opposite realities:

 

idols are false, murti is the Lord

[theist 1]

But I am araid you will not get many if any responses to your invitation to argue. Please forgive my bluntness but it seems even your friends haven't told you so I will. You carry the strong smell of a religious fanatic posed to blaspheme. It's rather off putting.

 

I am sure you consider yourself a Christian. If you know God as your type always claims and have a personally awakened relationship with Him please tell us something positive about Him. Call Him Yahweh or Ha-Shem, whatever your preference may be. But unless you have something positive to say about His attributes or activities the devotees here will not care to entertain your thoughts.

 

You do have something positive to say do you not? I mean knowing Him so personally as you do.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

If you want to use brains it is easy to prove it.

 

 

Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man’s hands. They have mouths, but they cannot speak; They have eyes, but they cannot see; They have ears, but they cannot hear; They have noses, but they cannot smell; They have hands, but they cannot feel; They have feet, but they cannot walk; They cannot make a sound with their throat. Those who make them will become like them, Everyone who trusts in them. Ps 115:4-8 NASV

 

 

 

Therefore worshipping a mental feeling or some vague conception is also idolatory for that mental feeling/conception is also not God and has exactly the same attributes as given above (cannot hear, cannot walk etc.)

 

On the other hand the Sri Murtis are the worshippable descents of the Lord and is not an idol though to mundane eyes it appears to be so. When the Deity is installed in the authoritative way the Lord accepts devotional service descending as the Deity.

 

The point is that your theory itself does not allow for worship of Lord, while the vaishnavas directly worship the Lord either as Sri Murtis, or as His Holy Names (who are non-different from the Lord) etc.

[Guest guest]

Just remember this: If you are ever going thru hell, keep going don't stop!

[Avinash 0]

Just remember this: If you are ever going thru hell, keep going don't stop!

 

If yamdutas are taking me to hell, do I have choice to stop? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Just one mention of Narayans' name did it for Ajamil, surely the mahamantra will help you thru the thick of it.

We have a choice to chant or not. Don't stop that either.

That'll probably be the most rounds we'll ever do. If only we don't go into shock.

[Guest guest]

 

GOVINNNNDDDDDAAAAAA JAYYYYA JJAAAYYYAA

GOOOPAAAALA JAYYYYAAA JAAAYYYYYAAAA

 

 

 

 

My grandmother was taken down to hell and she saw her brother there who told her to go back she doesn't belong here.

So she turned around and found herself awake in her hospital bed.

Eventually when she did go years later the nurse was chanting to her at my request.

[theist 1]

The next time a Christian challenges about murti worship I will ask them what is their opinion of having forms made of Lord Jesus Christ hung on a cross.

 

Personally I love seeing a form of Mata Mary and child Jesus or some other representation of Lord Christ, but the one of him on the cross seems ghastly.

[Guest guest]

My opinion exactly. I question the authority that represents Lord Jesus by the weapon of his assassination. This is an idea that was made up centuries later, like many precepts of the fraud called christianity (i.e. rapture, final days, etc).

 

The early christians used the fish to symbolize their unity with the teachings of LJC.

 

We recognize that the vaisnava is placed in situations that are ghastly, we actually celebrate the disappearance of great devotees, yet we do not make morbid celebrations of these things. We do not really meditate on Jara-rasa (the vehicle where Krsna took disappearance by being shot in the foot by a wayward arrow from the hunter, Jara) nor the disappearance of Lord Chaitanya. The story of the disappearance of Srila Haridas Thakura (perhaps an incarnation of LJC) is an elaborate story, but it is so sweet and free from tortuous descriptions of material pain and suffering. The disappearance of Srila Madhavendra Puri is similar, and does have a bit of suffering described, but such is a vehicle for proclaiming the unique guru/disciple relationship between madhavendra puri and iswara puri, a realtionship unparallelled in history.

 

The dwelling on the murder of LJC is a bit sick, IMHO, and has no value except to the salvationist who is still very selfish and not yet even considered a devotee, except on the santa rasa level at best, where personal interaction between lover and beloved does not manifest.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

However, the event has glorious sidebars, such as the story of the good thief, seen at:

 

http://www.geocities.com/mahaksadasa/dd.html

[theist 1]

Mahak, have you ever heard heard that song they sing "There is power, power, wonder working power in the blood of the lamb"?

 

There is great celebration over the Crucifixon of Christ. Actually one should be very humbled and even ashamed that Christ allowed that and is willing to take one's sinful reactions upon himself. It should be a time of putting one's face in the ground and remorseful weeping and not jumping around singing about "bathing in the blood of the lamb."

 

BTW do you know that story about Srila Prabhupada and the crucifix in the hotel room.

 

My last post on this asking for someone who knew it was deleted so this request may be edited, who knows.

 

no it wasn't deleted. I am simply confusing threads. It is on the Good Friday thread.