religious intolerance not limited to Islam

[Kulapavana 0]

Source: Haaretz

Published: September 11, 2004 Author: Amiram Barkat

The Armenian archbishop in Israel, Nourhan Manougian, was questioned under warning by police yesterday after he slapped a yeshiva student during a procession marking the Exaltation of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem's Old City. The archbishop slapped the student after the latter spat at the cross the Armenians were carrying and at Manougian himself.

 

The incident developed into a brawl during which Manougian's ceremonial medallion, which has been used by Armenian archbishops since the 17th century, broke.

 

The yeshiva student was also detained for questioning.

 

Police are now considering whether to initiate criminal proceedings against the Armenian archbishop and to charge him with assault. Meanwhile, the incident has sparked much anger among the clergy of the small Armenian community in Jerusalem.

 

Religious Jews, among them yeshiva students, customarily spit on the ground as a sign of disgust on seeing the cross. The Armenians, who live adjacent to the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, suffer from this phenomenon more than any of the other Christian sects in the Old City.

 

Manougian says he and his colleagues have already learned to live with it. "I no longer get worked up by people who turn around and spit when I pass them by in the street; but to approach in the middle of a religious procession and to spit on the cross in front of all the priests of the sect is humiliation that we are not prepared to accept," he notes.

 

A policeman is customarily posted to guard the Armenians' religious processions, but doesn't generally do anything to prevent the spitting. The Armenians took the matter up with Interior Minister Avraham Poraz some seven months ago, but nothing has been done about till now.

 

"The Israeli government is anti-Christian," Manougian charges. "It cries out in the face of any harm done to Jews all over the world, but is simply not interested at all when we are humiliated on an almost daily basis."

 

Lawmaker Rabbi Michael Melchior (Labor Party) says the phenomenon should be tackled through educational means. "I would expect prominent figures among the religious and ultra-Orthodox sectors, such as the chief rabbis, to denounce this phenomenon," he says

[Guest guest]

Armenia was the first country to convert to Christianity. Here is a good website about the 1 million Armenians who were killed in genocide in 1915 by the Muslim Turks:

 

www.theforgotten.org

[Kulapavana 0]

Source: .haaretz.com

Author: By Amiram Barkat

 

 

A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face.

The clergyman prefered not to lodge a complaint with the police and told an acquaintance that he was used to being spat at by Jews. Many Jerusalem clergy have been subjected to abuse of this kind. For the most part, they ignore it but sometimes they cannot.

 

On Sunday, a fracas developed when a yeshiva student spat at the cross being carried by the Armenian Archbishop during a procession near the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City. The archbishop's 17th-century cross was broken during the brawl and he slapped the yeshiva student.

 

Both were questioned by police and the yeshiva student will be brought to trial. The Jerusalem District Court has meanwhile banned the student from approaching the Old City for 75 days.

 

But the Armenians are far from satisfied by the police action and say this sort of thing has been going on for years. Archbishop Nourhan Manougian says he expects the education minister to say something.

 

"When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don't they take harsher measures?" he asks.

 

According to Daniel Rossing, former adviser to the Religious Affairs Ministry on Christian affairs and director of a Jerusalem center for Christian-Jewish dialogue, there has been an increase in the number of such incidents recently, "as part of a general atmosphere of lack of tolerance in the country."

 

Rossing says there are certain common characeristics from the point of view of time and location to the incidents. He points to the fact that there are more incidents in areas where Jews and Christians mingle, such as the Jewish and Armenian quarters of the Old City and the Jaffa Gate.

 

There are an increased number at certain times of year, such as during the Purim holiday."I know Christians who lock themselves indoors during the entire Purim holiday," he says.

 

Former adviser to the mayor on Christian affairs, Shmuel Evyatar, describes the situation as "a huge disgrace." He says most of the instigators are yeshiva students studying in the Old City who view the Christian religion with disdain.

 

"I'm sure the phenomenon would end as soon as rabbis and well-known educators denounce it. In practice, rabbis of yeshivas ignore or even encourage it," he says.

 

Evyatar says he himself was spat at while walking with a Serbian bishop in the Jewish quarter, near his home. "A group of yeshiva students spat at us and their teacher just stood by and watched."

 

Jerusalem municipal officials said they are aware of the problem but it has to be dealt with by the police. Shmuel Ben-Ruby, the police spokesman, said they had only two complaints from Christians in the past two years. He said that, in both cases, the culprits were caught and punished.

 

He said the police deploy an inordinately high number of patrols and special technology in the Old City and its surroundings in an attempt to keep order.

[Kulapavana 0]

"When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face.

The clergyman prefered not to lodge a complaint with the police and told an acquaintance that he was used to being spat at by Jews."

 

I'm impressed by the show of tolerance and humility here. I would probably slug that old geezer right in the face... just to teach him a lesson in "culture" /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[theist 1]

The tolerance shown is much more than I could manage.

 

Fanatics come from all directions so it's no real surprise, although always a disappointment.

 

I sent a copy of those articles to the Israeli Embassy in DC. For interreligious concerns it should be sent to:

interreligious@israelemb.org

 

[Kulapavana 0]

sometimes devotees get hostile reception while on a harinam in certain countries, but nothing like geting spat in the face (at least as far as I know).

 

with attitudes like that, no wonder "Holy Land" has been a powder keg for centuries and it is still like that today.

[theist 1]

I used to enjoy going with the devotees on street sankirtana. I remember several events in a row (rock concerts) where the people in line would throw quart size beer bottles across the street at us... full beer bottles. These would burst open a few feet in front of the kirtana line. The devotees wouldn't miss a beat.

 

I was freaked out thinking "man, if they would throw full bottles at us then they must really hate us." Knowing how precious beer was to them. /images/graemlins/smile.gif But I faked my way through it because everyone else remained calm.

 

I am still amazed by these devotees who preach in Muslim countries. I was in Hriskesh and met a Krsna devotee from Pakistan who had been introduced to Krsna consciousness by Amogha-lila prabhu while in Pakistan.

 

Fearlessness and tolerance definetly appear to be qualities of a devotee.

[Kulapavana 0]

sometimes devotees ask for trouble when they perform harinam in certain places. you can say they are fearless, but it can be also seen as senseless /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

as to devotees preaching in Muslim areas: like Prabhupada said - we take the dust of their feet on our head...

[gHari 0]

I heard a taped comedian on the net last night say that people who perform hate crimes, no matter what race they are in the next life, they will be Hare Krsnas. Then everyone will hate them.

 

At least Hare Krsnas was pronounced correctly.

This reminds me of the lyric written by one of my young friends who grew into a rock star with the Canadian BNL popular band:<blockquote><blockquote>I'm so cool ... that I'm a loser.

I'm so smart ... that I can't get anything figured out.

I'm so clean .... I can't get all the dirt off of me.

I'm so sane ... that I'm crazy.</blockquote></blockquote>

 

[Kulapavana 0]

I do not believe we are all that hated by others. I just don't see it at all. Mostly we are simply ignored or seen as "strange" people. And these days we keep such a low profile we are barely noticed by others.

[gHari 0]

I should have noted the comedian's name and performance date when I heard it. If I hear it again I'll post the data here.

 

[gHari 0]

It was Kevin Pollack from a 1994 Comic Relief Special.

 

[Guest guest]

The truth is, this hate crime -- filthy spitting and bigoted contempt --derives from formal rabbinic teaching and it is no wonder that a Talmud ("yeshiva") student would do such a thing on a regular basis. Orthodox Judaics are commanded to utter a curse whenever they pass a Christian church or cemetery, and to spit at or near any Cross they see. I have the exact wording of the curse and I know the rabbinic book in which the command to utter the curse is given.

[Kulapavana 0]

yes, the religious bigotry permeating most of the world today can be traced down to it's judaic roots in Torah (Old Testament) and it's Talmudic commentaries.

 

while spitting on the ground and cursing can easily be tolerated, spitting people in the face or on their religious symbols does qualify as a hate crime in my book.