"...take the essence.."???

[theist 1]

An excerpt from a 1972 letter to Krsnadas

 

 

...Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. ...

 

 

OK so we are instructed to concentrate on the essence of SB and not the allegories themselves or the speculations of modern science.

 

So my question is what exactly is the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam?

[jayaisvara 0]

I think its like this, if I say I must value prasadam like my very two eyes, then that means that my eyes are so precious to me. For anyone, they wouldn't trade their eyes for anything. So, if prasadam is like my eyes, just imagine the value of prasadam. I think it goes like that. I think the essence of Bhagavatam is to forget about the material way of thinking or material consciousness. For example, if I go to a materialistic person and say "Bhagavatam is the nectar of all Vedas" he will look at me and probably say, "that is not possible because how can a book be something very tasty like nectar?". So he sees the statement in materialistic way of thought and this is proven in his answer where he just cannot seem how tasty a book would be or even if its possible to drink a book...Thus, taste is material and spiritual but he compares it literally with material taste and material nectar. As for the spiritual person, he would understand the essence of my statement. Similarily, the essence of Bhagavatam from my angle of vision is the bliss of our true consciousness when it awakens to the smell and taste of the sweet nectar of true devotional service unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna

[krsna 3]

What is the essence of the essence,the creme de la creme,the quitessence of the most sublime scipture?

 

 

_____

 

 

Sri Sri Prema Dhama Deva Stotram

 

 

 

Verse 46

brahma-sutra-bhasya-krsna-naradopadesakam

sloka-turyya-bhasananta-krsna-samprakasakam

sabda-vartananta-hetu-nama-jiva-nistaram

prema-dhama-devam eva naumi gaura-sundaram

 

When Sri Chaitanyadev was in Kasi, he taught the assembled impersonalist renunciates that the ancient scripture Srimad Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on the Brahmasutra (the philosophy section of the Veda). The proper understanding of reality presented in the Srimad Bhagavatam has been passed down through a succession of spiritual teachers from Sri Krishna to Brahma, Narada, Vyasa and his disciples (guru-parampara). In Sri Chaitanya's explanation of the four root Verses of Bhagavatam (catuh-sloki), He brilliantly revealed the truth of Sri Krishna, who is the non-dual Supreme Absolute Truth, the self evident spiritual reality of immortal consciousness and bliss. He taught that the transcendental sound vibration of the holy names of God (sabda-brahma) alone awards the individual soul its highest attainment, which is to enter into the liberated, positive life of devotional service to Sri Krishna.

I sing with joy the unending glories of my Golden Lord, Sri Gaurasundara the Beautiful, the Divine Abode of Pure Love.

 

--

Acintya bheda abheda tattva

The Doctrine of Distinction and Non-Distinction

by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura

(Sri Chaitanya Siksamrtam, chapter 5)

Every thing in existence is but a transformation of the energy of the Lord. This is the teaching of Sri Chaitanya to the Advaita sanyasis of Kasi.

 

In his Vedanta sutra, Vyasadeva has described that everything is a transformation of the Lord's energy. Sankaracharya, however, has misled the world by commenting that Vyasadeva was mistaken. Thus Sankaracharya has raised great opposition to theism throughout the entire world.

 

According to Sankaracharya, by accepting the theory of the transformation of the energy of the Lord one falls into an illusion by indirectly proposing that the Absolute Truth itself is transformed. According to Sankarachaya, the Absolute is formless and impersonal. But it is the Lord's energy which is transformed, not the Lord himself, and the transformation of energy is a proven fact. It is the false bodily conception that the changing body is the self that is an illusion. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is full of potency and by his inconceivable energies he has transformed the material cosmic manifestation.

 

Using the example of the touchstone (philosophers stone) which, which by its energy turns iron to gold and yet remains the same, Sri Chaitanya said that although the God transforms his innumerable energies and creates the world he always remains unchanged. Although touchstone produces many varieties of valuable jewels it nevertheless remains the same. It does not change its original form.

 

When we speak of the Supreme as impersonal, we deny his spiritual potencies. Logically, if you accept half of the truth, you cannot understand the whole.

 

To Sarvabhauma, Sri Chaitanya said:

Vedanta sutra is the summary of all the Upanisads, therefore whatever direct meaning is there in the Upanisads is also recorded in the Vedanta sutra. For each verse the direct meaning must be accepted without interpretation.

 

To the sannyasis Varanasi, Mahaprabhu said:

The Vedic sound vibration omkara(om, or aum), the principle word in the Vedic literatures, is the basis of all the hymns of the Vedas. Therefore one should accept omkara as the sound representation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the reservoir of the cosmic manifestation. It is the purpose of the Supreme Personality of Godhead to present pranava as the reservoir of all Vedic knowledge. The words "tat tvam asi" favoured by Sankaracharya are only a partial explanation of the Vedic knowledge. It is pranava that is the mahavakya (supreme statement) in the Vedas. Sankaracharya's followers disregard omkara to stress the mantra "tat tvam asi".

 

Vedanta philosophy consists of words spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana in the form of Vyasadeva. The material defects of mistakes, illusions, cheating and sensory defects do not exist in the words of Godhead. The Absolute Truth is described by the Upanisads and Vedanta sutra but one must understand the verses as they are. That is proper understanding. Sripad Sankaracharya has described all the Vedic literatures in terms of indirect meanings. One who hears such explanations is ruined.

 

According to direct understanding, the Absolute Truth is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has all spiritual opulences. No one can be equal to or greater than him. Everything about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is spiritual, including his body, opulence and paraphernalia. Mayavada philosophy, however, covering his spiritual opulence, advocates the theory of impersonalism. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is full of spiritual potencies. Therefore his body, name, fame and entourage are all spiritual. The Mayavadi philosopher, due to ignorance, says that these things such as the body of Krishna are all merely transformations of nature in the material mode of goodness. Sankaracharya, who is an incarnation of Lord Shiva, is faultless because he is a servant carrying out the orders of the Lord, but those who follow his Mayavada philosophy are doomed. They will lose all their advancement in spiritual knowledge.

 

Pranava or omkara is an indirect name of Krishna, the original sound of the Vedas, sabda brahma. The noun "pranava" is formed from the verb pranu (to sound), made from the prefix pra (very much) and the verb nu (to praise). Therefore pranava or omkara is the sound incarnation of the Supreme Brahman, the person worthy of our praise and worship.

 

From omkara all the Vedas have appeared. Pranava is the seed of the Vedas, the mahavakya or principal sound. All other parts of the Vedas are particular statements of relative value. Sankaracharya, the formulator of mayavada philosophy, minimized the prominent position of omkara and proclaimed four specialized statements as mahavakya: 1. aham brahmasmi (I am brahman) 2. prajnanam brahma (brahman is knowledge) 3. tattvam asi (you are that brahman) 4. ekam eva advitiyam (there is only one existent being).

 

Sankaracharya took other statements as the essence of the Vedas and preached exclusive monism. He taught that the conditioned jiva is simply an illusion produced by maya, that brahman is subjected to maya, and that liberation for the jiva is the absence of maya. By this philosophy the pure relation of the soul with the Absolute Being becomes hidden.

 

The conclusion of all the Vedas has not been considered by the Mayavada philosophers. Thus, Madhvacarya took other Vedic statements and established an opposing philosophy, dvaitavad. However, because he did not consider all the Vedic statements the full relation of the soul to the Lord was not revealed. Ramanujacarya as well, in his visistadvaita philosophy, did not show the complete relationship. Nimbarka Swami, propounder of dvaitadvaita, preached a somewhat incomplete doctrine. Visnu Swami also, in his suddhadvaita doctrine, left some ambiguity. In order to establish the eternal nature of love of God, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu gave pure, complete teachings about the relationship of soul with the Lord through the doctrine of acintya-bhedabheda. In this way he delivered the world from the darkness of mental speculation.

 

Mahaprabhu said that the only mahavakya is pranava. Its meaning is evident in the Upanisads. What the Upanisads teach is perfectly sanctioned by Vyasa in the Vedanta Sutras. The authentic commentary of the Vedanta sutras is the Srimad Bhagavatam. The first sutra teaches that the principle of transformation is the truth. yato va imani bhutani jayante (Taittriya Upanisad) also supports this. The Bhagavatam also establishes this truth. Fearing that with the principle of transformation the Supreme Brahman becomes changeable, Sankara established vivarta-vada, the theory of illusion. This vivarta-vada is the root of all faults.

 

Parinama-vada, transformation through the Lord's energies, is approved by all scriptures and is the principle of pure existence. If the eternal existence of the Lord's energies is not accepted in parinama-vada, then the defects of the Lord falling under illusion and deterioration of the Lord appear. Yet it is not the Lord himself but his energies which are transformed. The Lord is simultaneously distinct from his energies and non-distinct from them, this being possible because the Lord has inconceivably powerful energy. If the eternal, natural, superior energy of the Lord is accepted, then there is no fault in the doctrine of parinama-vada, or transformation.

 

The transformations of the Lord's energy, which give rise to the material universe, are factual, but the Lord does not change. By transformation of the Lord's energies the material world and the souls take their existence. Though gold is produced from the touchstone the touchstone remains unaffected. In this example given by Mahaprabhu, it is clear that Krishna's energies perform the creation, whereas Krishna's remains unaffected. It is all the transformation of his energies. By transformation of the cit sakti(pure consciousness and existence), the Lord's abode, name, form, qualities, pastimes and the individual souls exist. By transformation of the maya sakti (nature), the material world and the subtle and physical bodies of the living beings come into existence. This parinama-vada is found everywhere in the Vedanta Sutras and the Upanisads. The gradual evolution of mahatattva, ahankara, ether, fire, air, water and earth is also parinamavada.

 

After all the efforts of Advaita philosophy, what is left in the mind of the philosopher is an imaginary self and an imaginary world. But in pure parinama-vada, by Krishna's will, the material world and the souls are seen as real, true, existent entities. The world is not illusion but a temporary state of transformation, since by Krishna's will it may dissolve. Although the Lord creates the world and enters into it, he remains eternally independent in his form as Krishna. He is always served by his spiritual energies. Only those who can understand this remarkable feature of the Lord are able to taste the Lord's opulence and sweetness. This is the relation of the soul to Krishna.

 

The soul's relation with the temporary world is like that of a traveler at an inn. The proper way to deal with the world, yukta vairagya, arises from a correct understanding of the relation between the soul and the material energy. As long as the correct understanding of temporary and permanent does not arise, the deluded soul cannot perform proper activities. According to Lord Chaitanya's doctrine, the soul's identity and difference from the Lord, and the world's difference and identity with the Lord, are both established as truth. Since this cannot be adjusted by limited human reasoning this eternal difference and non difference is called acintya or inconceivable. Though it is inconceivable, logic and reasoning are not dissatisfied, for it is reasonable that God can have inconceivable power. Whatever is established by the Lord's inconceivable power can only be understood by the Lord's mercy.

 

The ancient sages have taught that logic cannot be applied to the inconceivable, for in inconceivable matters, logic cannot be accepted as a proof. Those who cannot grasp this are most unfortunate.

 

 

[ancient_paztriot 0]

So true.

 

You can't take any other knowledge any other way except by faith. The trick comes in justifying that faith.

 

Just take the example of pursuing permanence in this atmosphere… pretty stupid thing to do. We should be pursuing substance.

[stonehearted 0]

In His instructions, Sri Caitanya explained the three esoteric concepts from the scriptures known as: sambandha (eternal relationship), abhidheya (direct application) and prayojana (ultimate necessity). When instructing Srila Sanatana Gosvami, Lord Caitanya said (Cc. Madhya 20.143, 146):

veda sastre kahe, sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana

krsna, krsna-bhakti, prema-tina mahadhana

mukhya gauna vrtti, kimva anvaya vyatireke

vedera pratijna kevala kahaye krsnake

"In the Vedic literature, Sri Krsna is the central point of attraction, and His service is our activity. To attain the platform of love of Krsna is life's ultimate goal. Therefore, Krsna, Krsna's service and love of Krsna are the three great riches of life. When one accepts Vedic literature by dictionary meaning or even by interpretation, i.e. directly or indirectly, the ultimate declaration of Vedic knowledge points to Lord Krsna."

The Vedic literature is indeed authentic scripture. Whatever is found in the Veda is the absolute truth. The sole aim of the Veda is to reveal Krsna, either directly or indirectly, in some places as the principal topic or in other places as the subordinate topic. Therefore, when discussing the principle of sambandha, the Veda points to Krsna alone. Similarly, devotional service to Krsna is the abhidheya principle and love of Godhead, Krsna, is the singular necessity and ultimate objective of the entire Vedic literature, prayojana. In order to delineate the three principles of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana we must first discuss the ten esoteric principles as enunciated by Sri Caitanya.

"(1) The Vedas are the principal scriptural evidence, which in turn expound the following nine principles: (2) Krsna is the Supreme Absolute Truth. (3) Krsna is omnipotent. (4) He is the fountainhead of all relationships and love. (5) The living entities are His separated parts and parcels. (6) The living entity, due to his constitutional situation as the marginal energy, may come under the sway of the material energy. (7) Again, due to his marginal nature, the living entity in the liberated condition is free of the influence of material nature. (8) The living entity and everything in this material cosmos is simultaneously one and different from the Supreme Lord, Krsna. (9) Pure devotional service is the living entity's occupation and means. (10) Pure love of Krsna is the living entity's ultimate goal."

[ancient_paztriot 0]

GOOD starting point…

 

Some people are very interested in finding fault with the Vedas, but the challenge remains… what better world-view DO YOU have?

 

There is a world of problems with all other philosophies and sciences, especially politics and business.

 

AND FRANKLY, they're alot more problematic… causing the problems? Is the answer perfection of the same?

 

The Catch-22 is you don't know the superiority of the Vedas till you've taken the trouble to PRACTICE IT. Reading through this literature takes one farther than they know.

[stonehearted 0]

Yep, it does.

 

in the introduciton to his Sri Krishna-samhita, Bhaktivinoda classifies humans into two groups: the swanlike and the asslike. The swanlike, he says, are in the minority.

 

So the asslike will always find things that don't jibe with their empirical world view to pick at. Elsewhere in the introduction he says, "Swanlike people are not interested in quarrel." There's a verse in the 7th canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam that says, "One should not indulge in arguments and counter-arguments, nor should one take shelter of any cause or faction." (The verse also says one should not become a professional teacher for earning a living. Fortunately, the verses are actually discussing the behavior of sannyasis who desire perfection.)

[ancient_paztriot 0]

"So the asslike will always find things that don't jibe with their empirical world view to pick at."

 

Hard to hide AND promote that agenda at the same time! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Boy - even by their own standards - they have left a trail of evidence we could pick at: No speculation there!. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ancient_paztriot 0]

SB 8.5.43

All learned men say that the five elements, eternal time, fruitive activity, the three modes of material nature, and the varieties produced by these modes are all creations of yogamaya. This material world is therefore extremely difficult to understand, but those who are highly learned have rejected it. May the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the controller of everything, be pleased with us.

 

PURPORT

The word durvibhavyam is very important in this verse. No one can understand how everything is happening in this material world by the arrangement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead through His material energies. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (9.10), mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sacaracaram: everything is actually happening under the direction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This much we can learn, but how it is happening is extremely difficult to understand. We cannot even understand how the affairs within our body are systematically taking place. The body is a small universe, and since we cannot understand how things are happening in this small universe, how can we understand the affairs of the bigger universe? Actually this universe is very difficult to understand, yet learned sages have advised, as Krsna has also advised, that this material world is duhkhalayam asasvatam; [bg. 8.15] in other words, it is a place of misery and temporality. One must give up this world and go back home, back to the Personality of Godhead. Materialists may argue, “If this material world and its affairs are impossible to understand, how can we reject it?” The answer is provided by the word prabudhapabadham. We have to reject this material world because it is rejected by those who are learned in Vedic wisdom. Even though we cannot understand what this material world is, we should be ready to reject it in accordance with the advice of learned persons, especially the advice of Krsna. Krsna says:

 

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

 

“After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.” (Bg. 8.15) One has to return home, back to Godhead, for this is the highest perfection of life. To go back to Godhead means to reject this material world. Although we cannot understand the functions of this material world and whether it is good for us or bad for us, in accordance with the advice of the supreme authority we must reject it and go back home, back to Godhead.

[ancient_paztriot 0]

SB 8.6.12

As one can derive fire from wood, milk from the milk bag of the cow, food grains and water from the land, and prosperity in one’s livelihood from industrial enterprises, so, by the practice of bhakti-yoga, even within this material world, one can achieve Your favor or intelligently approach You. Those who are pious all affirm this.

 

PURPORT

Although the Supreme Personality of Godhead is nirguna, not to be found within this material world, the entire material world is pervaded by Him, as stated in Bhagavad-gita (maya tatam idam sarvam). The material world is nothing but an expansion of the Lord’s material energy, and the entire cosmic manifestation rests upon Him (mat-sthani sarva-bhutani). Nonetheless, the Supreme Lord cannot be found here (na caham tesv avasthitah). A devotee, however, can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead through the practice of bhakti-yoga. One ordinarily does not begin to practice bhakti-yoga unless he has practiced it in previous births. Moreover, one can begin bhakti-yoga only by the mercy of the spiritual master and Krsna. Guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija. The seed of devotional service is obtainable by the mercy of guru, the spiritual master, and Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Only by the practice of bhakti-yoga can one achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and see Him face to face (premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [bs. 5.38]). One cannot see the Lord by other methods, such as karma, jnana or yoga. Under the direction of the spiritual master, one must cultivate bhakti-yoga (sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam .-sevanam [sB 7.5.23]). Then, even within this material world, although the Lord is not visible, a devotee can see Him. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [bg. 18.55]) and in srimad-Bhagavatam (bhaktyaham ekaya grahyah). Thus by devotional service one can achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although He is not visible or understandable to materialistic persons.

 

In this verse, the cultivation of bhakti-yoga is compared to many material activities. By friction one can get fire from wood, by digging the earth one can get food grains and water, and by agitating the milk bag of the cow one can get nectarean milk. Milk is compared to nectar, which one can drink to become immortal. Of course, simply drinking milk will not make one immortal, but it can increase the duration of one’s life. In modern civilization, men do not think milk to be important, and therefore they do not live very long. Although in this age men can live up to one hundred years, their duration of life is reduced because they do not drink large quantities of milk. This is a sign of Kali-yuga. In Kali-yuga, instead of drinking milk, people prefer to slaughter an animal and eat its flesh. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in His instructions of Bhagavad-gita, advises go-raksya, which means cow protection. The cow should be protected, milk should be drawn from the cows, and this milk should be prepared in various ways. One should take ample milk, and thus one can prolong one’s life, develop his brain, execute devotional service, and ultimately attain the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As it is essential to get food grains and water by digging the earth, it is also essential to give protection to the cows and take nectarean milk from their milk bags.

 

The people of this age are inclined toward industrial enterprises for comfortable living, but they refuse to endeavor to execute devotional service, by which they can achieve the ultimate goal of life by returning home, back to Godhead. Unfortunately, as it is said, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah [sB 7.5.31]. People without spiritual education do not know that the ultimate goal of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. Forgetting this aim of life, they are working very hard in disappointment and frustration (moghasa mogha-karmano mogha jnana vicetasah [bg. 9.12]). The so-called vaisyas—the industrialists or businessmen—are involved in big, big industrial enterprises, but they are not interested in food grains and milk. However, as indicated here, by digging for water, even in the desert, we can produce food grains; when we produce food grains and vegetables, we can give protection to the cows; while giving protection to the cows, we can draw from them abundant quantities of milk; and by getting enough milk and combining it with food grains and vegetables, we can prepare hundreds of nectarean foods. We can happily eat this food and thus avoid industrial enterprises and joblessness.

 

Agriculture and cow protection are the way to become sinless and thus be attracted to devotional service. Those who are sinful cannot be attracted by devotional service. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (7.28):

 

yesam tv anta-gatam papam

jananam punya-karmanam

te dvandva-moha-nirmukta

bhajante mam drdha-vratah

 

“Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.” The majority of people in this age of Kali are sinful, short-living, unfortunate and disturbed (mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [sB 1.1.10]). For them, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has advised:

 

harer nama harer nama

harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva

nasty eva gatir anyatha

 

[Adi 17.21]

“In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way. There is no other way. There is no other way.”

[Guest guest]

I was once meditating on this question while in the company of my Siksa and diksa spiritual master Srila Sridhara Maharaj, whilst considering how to formulate the question I first offered a pomergranite to him, he looked at it and began to narrate the exchange between Srila Rupa and Sanatan in Vrndavan over Rupas, harsh reprimanding treatment of Srila Jiva Goswami.

Sanatan asked Rupa what he had learned in all his spiritual search through all the revealed scriptures, and what he perceived as the quintessential Truth of all lessons.

He replied with 3 points, first Jiva Karuna, i.e compassion or mercy for all jiva-souls. Second was sadhu-guru seva- service to ones spiritual master and the saints. And third was Krsna Prema Divine love of God [Krsna]. This was the be-all and end-all, the very substance of all knowledge. And to do this with sincerity was to attain perfection in eternal life.

To which Sanatan replied. "But you Rupa are not even doing the first which is to show compassion to one Jiva -Goswami so how can you hope to serve and please Guru and sadhu to reach and taste love of God? He immediately realized his folly and apoligized to Jiva who was fasting to death on the other side of the Jamuna.

As I sat amazed at the feet of Srila Guru Dev who had perfectly answered my niggling query without me even having to ask the question.

[krsna 3]

In Sri Krishna-samhita, Bhaktivinoda in the introduction he says,

 

"Swanlike people are not interested in quarrel."

 

There's a verse in the 7th canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam that says,

 

"One should not indulge in arguments and counter-arguments, nor should one take shelter of any cause or faction."